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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
147
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Posted - 2011.09.13 21:16:00 -
[1] - Quote
Xander Riggs wrote:ITT: Easily confused people. No. ITT: people who dislike functional deterioration (because that's what has happened GÇö the new icons pictures are functionally inferior to the old (actual) icons).
GǪand I don't see the need to create new new ones, when there already exists a full set of icons that match the prevalent UI design. Just go back to using those (and send the person who decided to ditch the icons for pictures as UI elements to a basic class in HMI design). GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
148
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Posted - 2011.09.13 22:07:00 -
[2] - Quote
Xander Riggs wrote:Let me see if I follow you correctly: The new icons GǪno, you're not following me correctly. The new pictures are not icons GÇö they're pictures. They do not serve the same function.
Icons are meant to quickly, clearly, and cleanly represent a concept or action, and do so in a way that distinguishes the icon from the rest of the UI and from other icons, even ones that are closely related. The simple the icon can be and still communicate its use and be easily distinguished from the background noise and competing symbols, the better it is.
The old icons did all of that, because they were icons. The new pictures do almost none of it (unsurprisingly since they're not really icons).
So yes, the new pictures are functionally much worse than the old icons at the job of being icons. GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
149
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Posted - 2011.09.13 22:13:00 -
[3] - Quote
Xander Riggs wrote:So, what you're saying Is that icons should be icons, not pictures.
The new pictures do not serve the purpose they're meant to serve GÇö the old icons did. It's that simple. GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
149
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Posted - 2011.09.13 22:21:00 -
[4] - Quote
Xander Riggs wrote:I am amused that you think a picture cannot be an icon So I take it you argue with you optometrist, or every other professional you come across. This is UI design 101. A picture makes a horrible icon for the simple reason that they're not simple. There's too much noise; too much detail; too much useless pixels; too much information loss at different sizes and scales.
If you want to use a picture as a basis for an icon, that's fine, but you will have to refine it something immensely and simplify and refine the defining characteristics to the bare minimums. Otherwise, it fails as an icon.
Quote:or that having icon pictures that look like the objects they represent is somehow confusing. Except, of course, that this is not what I'm saying GÇö that's what you're saying.
What I'm saying is that pictures are not icons because they fail to do all the things an icon needs to do.
Quote:Yes, the old ones were low quality. When you see those new icons there? Yeah, that's exactly what it will look like when it's on your ship. I fail to see how this is SO UTTERLY CONFUSING. GǪexcept, of course, that what they look on your ship is entirely irrelevant for what the icon is there to do. Why are you so confused by having an icon that means GǣLarge Long-range Laser TurretGǥ? Why are you so confused by having an icon that stands out against its background? Why are you so confused by clarity?
So no, the new ones are not of a higher quality GÇö they are of a higher detail level, which actually means they're lower-quality icons. GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
149
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Posted - 2011.09.13 22:36:00 -
[5] - Quote
GǪor, to use that old chestnut, let's take the example of the Fire Exit sign.
How do you design one? Well, you don't plaster a picture of Phan Thi Kim Phuc on the door and hope people see the connection. It may contain the right elements (fire, running away, painGǪ) but its meaning is thoroughly unclear in the heat of a fire.
Instead, you have a highly stylized fire, a highly stylized running man, and an arrow pointing in the right direction. Hell, you could arguably even skip the running man. This conveys in a few very easily recognizable shapes the meaning "Fire? Run! Over there GåÆ"
Replacing these icons with pictures of the same things (if at all possible, which is debatable in some cases) does not improve the sign GÇö quite the opposite, because it just adds unnecessary (and even harmful) extra information to process. GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
149
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Posted - 2011.09.13 22:39:00 -
[6] - Quote
Xander Riggs wrote:The higher definition icons we use now are better. In what way?
Quote:They look exactly like what they are. So what? What use is that?
They also blend in with the background much better. This is bad. They also scale very poorly. This is bad. They also offer very little contrast. This is bad.
Quote:They're also color coded for those of us who pay attention to that kind of thing. As I sit here in a station right now cycling through the various weapon types, I can tell at a glance exactly what they are and do. GǪall of which you could do with the old icons. All the new ones offer is fidelity, which is an almost entirely worthless property for an icon.
Quote:I was under the impression that all icons would get the photorealistic overhaul eventually. Seeing as how most icons have no in-game item to photorealistically represent, that sounds not just implausible, but entirely impossible.
Quote:Next time you fit your ship in a smoke filled room as you dive out a window, you let me know. So you agree, then, that pictures are not good icons. Well, that's progress at leastGǪ GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
149
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Posted - 2011.09.13 22:47:00 -
[7] - Quote
LittleTerror wrote:What is wrong with the new icons you ungrateful things? They're not good icons. They lack everything a good icon should have, unlike the old icons (which, at most, were a bit weak in terms of contrast). GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
149
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Posted - 2011.09.13 22:52:00 -
[8] - Quote
Xander Riggs wrote:Important note: Capital laser batteries do not actually exist, either. And this is important, why exactly?
Quote:You know what they do with the art, when they make new icons for things inside your ship? MAKE IT UP. So?
Quote:Your bad points are entirely arbitrary. No. They follow the principles of good UI (and specifically icon) design. It's not so much arbitrary as the result of at least two entire fields of research and a small country's GDP worth of money that has gone into R&D at companies such as Microsoft, Google, and Apple.
Quote:Literally, you're sitting here saying 'Hey, CCP! I know you spent money and time on this and all, but I don't like it. You should waste some more money to meet my entirely arbitrary art-school list of demands.' No, that's as usual not at all what I'm saying, but nice try on yourGǪ what is it? Fortieth?GǪ straw man of the thread.
I'm saying GÇ£Hey, CCP. You shouldn't have wasted that money and time on this deterioration. You can fix it at zero cost because you already have the assets.GÇ¥ And maybe, as an addendum GÇ£look at that waste as a the cost of learning GÇö think about the reason why before you change things the next time.GÇ¥ GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
149
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Posted - 2011.09.13 23:01:00 -
[9] - Quote
Xander Riggs wrote:Sums it all up, right there. So you agree then. Good.
CCP, give us back the oldactual turret icons.
GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
151
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Posted - 2011.09.13 23:11:00 -
[10] - Quote
Xander Riggs wrote:you'll just keep saying my arguments are straw men Only if you keep making straw man arguments by arguing claims I don't make.
Quote:while you spout unfounded claims of your own It's not entirely unfounded to think that you agree when you can't evade arguments rather than counter them, and when you can't answer even very simple questionsGǪ
GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á |
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
155
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Posted - 2011.09.13 23:14:00 -
[11] - Quote
Xander Riggs wrote:Nah, I just don't get my **** tied in a knot every time anything changes. Excellent. Then we can petition CCP to add a functionality where everything that appears in your (personal or corp) hangar and wallet is immediately transferred to me instead.
Because change is good. GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
155
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Posted - 2011.09.13 23:54:00 -
[12] - Quote
Psychophantic wrote:Doesn't your school have a debate class or something? Nope. And either way, I'd have to finish Pedagogy II before being qualified to give it beyond the odd seminar or twoGǪ GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
155
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Posted - 2011.09.14 14:03:00 -
[13] - Quote
DeBingJos wrote:I agree that the new icons are very hard to identify compared to the old ones.
I also don't think this is a very big problem. How many different guns do you guys mount on your ships? One type of gun and maybe a group of launchers and/or neuts covers 99% of the fits. Why do you need to see the type of gun from the icon? Because you might have them in a big pile in your hangar and it would be embarrassing to mount small blasters on your SnipocGǪ
In space, you might only have one gun, but you might also have the quite common combination of tractor + salvager GÇö both of which are now grey boxes GÇö and it matters a fair amount which one you have activated on which target (and in the target display, those icons are even smaller than the ones posted in the comparison picture). With the old icons, they were distinctly different and the tractor icon even hinted at what it did: it attracted containers (and I suppose you could construe the salvager icon to look a bit like a camera or other sensor that sifted through the wreck), and, perhaps more importantly, the difference was in no way diminished by the reduction in size since the two icons also had drastically different colour schemes and highlights. GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
169
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Posted - 2011.09.15 16:39:00 -
[14] - Quote
CCP t0rfifrans wrote:Guys, we're reverting the icons to the way they were before we introduced the new turrets. Excellent news!
Cyzlaki wrote:The icons really don't matter. Of course they do. Not only are they an important part of the UI GÇö they also symbolised a worrying trend towards changing things for the worse.
Quote:It got that bad in here that t0rfifrans gave you your answer. And this is good. It means that not only is there a break in another worrying trend: poor communication, but also a signal that the previously mentioned trend might not be quite asGǪ trendGǪyGǪ ehm. Yeah.
Quote:If this thread is any indication of what you think is important- god help us when CCP deliver ship customization and it's not to everyone's personal tastes. Seeing as how that is a completely different matter, the link is tenuous at best and this thread tells us absolutely squat about what will happen there. GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á |
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