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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
155
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Posted - 2011.09.14 14:03:00 -
[61] - Quote
DeBingJos wrote:I agree that the new icons are very hard to identify compared to the old ones.
I also don't think this is a very big problem. How many different guns do you guys mount on your ships? One type of gun and maybe a group of launchers and/or neuts covers 99% of the fits. Why do you need to see the type of gun from the icon? Because you might have them in a big pile in your hangar and it would be embarrassing to mount small blasters on your SnipocGǪ
In space, you might only have one gun, but you might also have the quite common combination of tractor + salvager GÇö both of which are now grey boxes GÇö and it matters a fair amount which one you have activated on which target (and in the target display, those icons are even smaller than the ones posted in the comparison picture). With the old icons, they were distinctly different and the tractor icon even hinted at what it did: it attracted containers (and I suppose you could construe the salvager icon to look a bit like a camera or other sensor that sifted through the wreck), and, perhaps more importantly, the difference was in no way diminished by the reduction in size since the two icons also had drastically different colour schemes and highlights. GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á |
Rhaegor Stormborn
BURN EDEN Northern Coalition.
69
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Posted - 2011.09.14 14:17:00 -
[62] - Quote
New icons are terrible because it is very hard to see them against the background of space when you lock a target and activate gnus on them. I don't really mind them in the fitting window, but I hate them in space. that said, they still look like crap in the fitting window. Brown blobs which are completely ambiguious. |
Lady Spank
In Praise Of Shadows
97
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Posted - 2011.09.14 14:18:00 -
[63] - Quote
These new icons are a load of bollocks. They look like flakes of fish-food on the target overview and when fitting your ship most modules look offline. Utterly pathetic and indicative of how crap CCP are these days. (a¦á_a¦â) ~ Get Out, Nasty Face ~ (a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â) |
Pak Narhoo
Knights of Kador
19
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Posted - 2011.09.14 14:21:00 -
[64] - Quote
Pro or against the new icons this is just one of the topics that 'screams' CCP communicate with us. Because in the end there is nothing we can do.
So are these ic... pictures of turrets final CCP or are the a work in progress?
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Simetraz
State War Academy Caldari State
44
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Posted - 2011.09.14 15:17:00 -
[65] - Quote
The only thing they can do to improve them is to change the color. If they were a lighter color they would be a lot more visible. Not that I am so sure they really need to change anything.
We don't need to step back to the old ones. If we did then we would have icons that look nothing like the guns.
Probably going to get flamed for this but. I am more concerned about the reppers and hardners.
I know what guns are on my ship and I know there positions from F1 - F8 About the only thing I watch on them is the ammo count, overheating and if they are cycling or not. All of which you can see clearly. In fact it is easier to see the status of the guns because the guns are darker.
Getting all worked up over this is pointless. I would rather see them work on overhauling the UI then waste time on this. They are working and that is what counts.
Capitals (Balancing and Roles) |
RougeOperator
Autocannons Anonymous
22
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Posted - 2011.09.14 15:21:00 -
[66] - Quote
What im curious about is how the new turret icons got past quality assurance.
Or were the 1000 dollar pants just that distracting that no one making them could tell they looked like turds. |
Alice Katsuko
Terra Incognita Intrepid Crossing
8
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Posted - 2011.09.14 15:22:00 -
[67] - Quote
Grey Stormshadow wrote:Could someone with the knowledge let me/us know if there are plans to restore these?
The new icons are really messy compared to old ones and really difficult to see in space. I know very few - if any - who would disagree about old icons being better and easier to tell the difference between each other.
CCP is already working on better icons. It seems as though the current icons are too low-res for the amount of detail they have. It's almost as though someone took pictures of each turret and then badly compressed them. Ideally the icons should match those we see in the fitting window, albeit somewhat simplified so that they are easy to distinguish quickly.
Emergency CSM-CCP Meeting, page 3 wrote:The CSM stated that although the gun effects are very nice, the new gun icons leave something to be desired and are difficult to distinguish from each other. The CSM felt they were too dark and generally hard to see. CCP agreed there was room for improvement, and stated that wok was already underway on this matter. |
Lady Spank
In Praise Of Shadows
97
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Posted - 2011.09.14 15:36:00 -
[68] - Quote
Simetraz wrote:We don't need to step back to the old ones. If we did then we would have icons that look nothing like the guns.
What we have currently look nothing like guns either.
(a¦á_a¦â) ~ Get Out, Nasty Face ~ (a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â) |
Grey Stormshadow
Starwreck Industries
103
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Posted - 2011.09.14 17:08:00 -
[69] - Quote
Alice Katsuko wrote:Grey Stormshadow wrote:Could someone with the knowledge let me/us know if there are plans to restore these?
The new icons are really messy compared to old ones and really difficult to see in space. I know very few - if any - who would disagree about old icons being better and easier to tell the difference between each other.
CCP is already working on better icons. It seems as though the current icons are too low-res for the amount of detail they have. It's almost as though someone took pictures of each turret and then badly compressed them. Ideally the icons should match those we see in the fitting window, albeit somewhat simplified so that they are easy to distinguish quickly. Emergency CSM-CCP Meeting, page 3 wrote:The CSM stated that although the gun effects are very nice, the new gun icons leave something to be desired and are difficult to distinguish from each other. The CSM felt they were too dark and generally hard to see. CCP agreed there was room for improvement, and stated that wok was already underway on this matter.
Well this is nice to hear, but at same time feels like waste of time. The old icons would still serve the purpose and be in line with all the other icons. However I won't oppose 2nd generation new ones either as long they are clearly visible in space (specially next to the target icon). It's nice to hear that CCP suddenly has plenty of extra resources to improve EvE again :]
Forum fix for firefox and chrome Get working images and colored text Classic forum style 2.25final |
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CCP t0rfifrans
C C P C C P Alliance
137
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Posted - 2011.09.15 15:58:00 -
[70] - Quote
Guys, we're reverting the icons to the way they were before we introduced the new turrets.
We hoped that the rendered previews would turn out more clearly, but it's evident that usability suffered, and as a result, we're changing them back.
I can't comment exactly on when the change will go out, but it's in the pipe. They look right on dev machines with the latest internal build, at least. |
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Hanathor
El Gremio Segundo
1
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Posted - 2011.09.15 16:03:00 -
[71] - Quote
At least... |
Grey Stormshadow
Starwreck Industries
103
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Posted - 2011.09.15 16:05:00 -
[72] - Quote
CCP t0rfifrans wrote:Guys, we're reverting the icons to the way they were before we introduced the new turrets.
We hoped that the rendered previews would turn out more clearly, but it's evident that usability suffered, and as a result, we're changing them back.
I can't comment exactly on when the change will go out, but it's in the pipe. They look right on dev machines with the latest internal build, at least. This is really great news :)
There are times when I should correct my slightly damaged attitude towards decissions made by CCP. This is one of them. Big thank you. Forum fix for firefox and chrome Get working images and colored text Classic forum style 2.25final |
Uninhabited
Caldari Elite Force Apocalypse Now.
1
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Posted - 2011.09.15 16:16:00 -
[73] - Quote
Grey Stormshadow wrote:CCP t0rfifrans wrote:Guys, we're reverting the icons to the way they were before we introduced the new turrets.
We hoped that the rendered previews would turn out more clearly, but it's evident that usability suffered, and as a result, we're changing them back.
I can't comment exactly on when the change will go out, but it's in the pipe. They look right on dev machines with the latest internal build, at least. This is really great news :) There are times when I should correct my slightly damaged attitude towards decissions made by CCP. This is one of them. Big thank you.
qft |
Cyzlaki
Interstellar eXodus BricK sQuAD.
128
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Posted - 2011.09.15 16:19:00 -
[74] - Quote
Oh for god sake. I have never seen such a heated back and forth discussion about such a worthless, trivial matter in all my days. What's worse is that some of you are actually serious and are treating this like an important issue. I don't know whether to laugh or cry. The icons really don't matter. They don't. It got that bad in here that t0rfifrans gave you your answer. You're getting the old icons back. If this thread is any indication of what you think is important- god help us when CCP deliver ship customization and it's not to everyone's personal tastes. |
Grey Stormshadow
Starwreck Industries
103
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Posted - 2011.09.15 16:30:00 -
[75] - Quote
Cyzlaki wrote:Oh for god sake. I have never seen such a heated back and forth discussion about such a worthless, trivial matter in all my days. What's worse is that some of you are actually serious and are treating this like an important issue. I don't know whether to laugh or cry. The icons really don't matter. They don't. It got that bad in here that t0rfifrans gave you your answer. You're getting the old icons back. If this thread is any indication of what you think is important- god help us when CCP deliver ship customization and it's not to everyone's personal tastes. Well it's nice that you took the time and effort to write about matter which didn't really matter to you :)
Anyways CCP t0rfifrans giving me/us an answer reflects direct and open communication from CCP's side. That is positive and thing what I was after for.
The fact that his answer was something I wanted to hear is secondary, but ofc I'm really happy about that also. Forum fix for firefox and chrome Get working images and colored text Classic forum style 2.25final |
Cyzlaki
Interstellar eXodus BricK sQuAD.
128
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Posted - 2011.09.15 16:33:00 -
[76] - Quote
So long as you're happy then. Very good. |
Kitty McKitty
In Praise Of Shadows
87
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Posted - 2011.09.15 16:35:00 -
[77] - Quote
Confirming that caring about one thing means you don't care about any other issues. "Why can't I be different and original, like everybody else?" |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
169
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Posted - 2011.09.15 16:39:00 -
[78] - Quote
CCP t0rfifrans wrote:Guys, we're reverting the icons to the way they were before we introduced the new turrets. Excellent news!
Cyzlaki wrote:The icons really don't matter. Of course they do. Not only are they an important part of the UI GÇö they also symbolised a worrying trend towards changing things for the worse.
Quote:It got that bad in here that t0rfifrans gave you your answer. And this is good. It means that not only is there a break in another worrying trend: poor communication, but also a signal that the previously mentioned trend might not be quite asGǪ trendGǪyGǪ ehm. Yeah.
Quote:If this thread is any indication of what you think is important- god help us when CCP deliver ship customization and it's not to everyone's personal tastes. Seeing as how that is a completely different matter, the link is tenuous at best and this thread tells us absolutely squat about what will happen there. GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á |
Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx
33
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Posted - 2011.09.15 16:48:00 -
[79] - Quote
CCP t0rfifrans wrote:Guys, we're reverting the icons to the way they were before we introduced the new turrets.
We hoped that the rendered previews would turn out more clearly, but it's evident that usability suffered, and as a result, we're changing them back.
I can't comment exactly on when the change will go out, but it's in the pipe. They look right on dev machines with the latest internal build, at least. This is great to hear, both because it's a decision that makes sense, and because you actually told us about it!
I wonder if it would also be possible to find out about those new ships brackets that briefly showed up on SISI several months ago. Are they ever coming back? |
stoicfaux
236
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Posted - 2011.09.15 16:49:00 -
[80] - Quote
Cyzlaki wrote:If this thread is any indication of what you think is important- god help us when CCP deliver ship customization and it's not to everyone's personal tastes.
We're already quite aware that ship customization will not satisfy everyone. This was obvious when people complained about the new Scorpion model. http://eve-search.com/thread/1417408
Turret icons are a critical interface usability issue . Fugly ships (and emotional attachments to fugly ships) are not. |
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Aethlyn
33
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Posted - 2011.09.15 16:56:00 -
[81] - Quote
CCP t0rfifrans wrote:Guys, we're reverting the icons to the way they were before we introduced the new turrets.
We hoped that the rendered previews would turn out more clearly, but it's evident that usability suffered, and as a result, we're changing them back.
I can't comment exactly on when the change will go out, but it's in the pipe. They look right on dev machines with the latest internal build, at least. I really like the new turret icons. The ones used for the targeting icons are just too low res to actually differentiate them. The hangar ones are fine IMO. Looking for more thoughts? Read my blog or follow me on Twitter. |
FuzzyLogik360
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2011.09.15 16:56:00 -
[82] - Quote
So, lets say I'm in a lift and want to get to the 3876 th floor of a very tall skyscraper, but all the buttons are labelled in Roman numerals.
So which one of these would you pick?
MMMCDLVI MMMDCCCLXXVI MMCCCLVI MMMCMLXVII MMMCLXXXIX MMMMDLXXXVI
So which one did you press?
hmm..
Roman numerals aren't bad to those that know them, but the decimal system is instantly more readable.
To all those who say the new icons are better, because they are "exact" depictions of the turrets they represent... well you clearly have no concept of FUNCTIONALITY.
Visual accuracy does not necessarily mean better function. The critical "function" of an "icon" is to be instantly recognisable, even to the novice user. The analogy here would the skull & cross-bones on a bottle of acid for instance --> Very clear to all.
Bring back the old icons. They did their job exceptionally well. If it's not broke, don't fix it. |
Hiram Alexander
Capital Enrichment Services
44
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Posted - 2011.09.15 16:57:00 -
[83] - Quote
CCP t0rfifrans wrote:Guys, we're reverting the icons to the way they were before we introduced the new turrets.
We hoped that the rendered previews would turn out more clearly, but it's evident that usability suffered, and as a result, we're changing them back.
I can't comment exactly on when the change will go out, but it's in the pipe. They look right on dev machines with the latest internal build, at least. Fantastic news, thank you!
Now, I just hope that this also includes Tractor Beams; magnets were the perfect 'icon', for me at least... |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
732
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Posted - 2011.09.15 17:11:00 -
[84] - Quote
CCP t0rfifrans wrote:Guys, we're reverting the icons to the way they were before we introduced the new turrets.
We hoped that the rendered previews would turn out more clearly, but it's evident that usability suffered, and as a result, we're changing them back.
I can't comment exactly on when the change will go out, but it's in the pipe. They look right on dev machines with the latest internal build, at least. Well I have to say this reply amazed me immensely. Thanks for your post, the up coming change and understanding of this issue.
CCP Zulu..... Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
Cyzlaki
Interstellar eXodus BricK sQuAD.
139
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Posted - 2011.09.15 17:14:00 -
[85] - Quote
My apologies for the tone of my previous posts. After reading four pages of what seemed like an incredibly inane argument about a trivial matter, I was quite exasperated. Thank you for getting me up to speed on the topic of icons and their importance to EVE's overall usability. I had never given it so much as a thought prior to stumbling upon this topic. I was unaware that icons are such a popular issue, and feel that today the desired outcome of the majority has been recognized and will be implemented to the benefit of all. Thanks to CCP t0rfifrans and the rest of the staff involved with the change. |
Kitty McKitty
In Praise Of Shadows
502
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Posted - 2011.09.15 17:24:00 -
[86] - Quote
Someone broke my sarcometer (((((((( GÖÑ Haviing your portrait painted here helps INTAKI Disabled Children GÖÑ |
Gnulpie
Miner Tech
2
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Posted - 2011.09.15 17:28:00 -
[87] - Quote
CCP t0rfifrans wrote:Guys, we're reverting the icons to the way they were before we introduced the new turrets.
We hoped that the rendered previews would turn out more clearly, but it's evident that usability suffered, and as a result, we're changing them back.
I can't comment exactly on when the change will go out, but it's in the pipe. They look right on dev machines with the latest internal build, at least.
Yaaaaaaaaaaay
Great move! |
oematoema
The Muppet Show
25
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Posted - 2011.09.15 17:38:00 -
[88] - Quote
CCP t0rfifrans wrote:Guys, we're reverting the icons to the way they were before we introduced the new turrets.
We hoped that the rendered previews would turn out more clearly, but it's evident that usability suffered, and as a result, we're changing them back.
I can't comment exactly on when the change will go out, but it's in the pipe. They look right on dev machines with the latest internal build, at least.
You, sir, are my hero for today! And probably tomorrow too! Statement on behalf of CCP from Arnar Hrafn Gylfason, Senior Producer for EVE Online. Good communication and trust between CCP and the EVE community has always been a fundamental priority for CCP and will continue to be so. |
Diomedes Calypso
Aetolian Armada
20
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Posted - 2011.09.15 17:53:00 -
[89] - Quote
CCP t0rfifrans wrote:Guys, we're reverting the icons to the way they were before we introduced the new turrets.
We hoped that the rendered previews would turn out more clearly, but it's evident that usability suffered, and as a result, we're changing them back.
I can't comment exactly on when the change will go out, but it's in the pipe. They look right on dev machines with the latest internal build, at least.
Excellent,
Taste is in the eye of the beholder but differences in usabilty really need to address problems of large minorities.
If say, 30% of the population don't like the looks of new artwork, things really don't need to be prioritized to fit their desires.
However, if 30% of the user population really had difficulty quickly disntguishing the new icons and found the game play taking more squinting and clicking because of it a change really needs to be a priority . (unless a percentage of similar magnitude struggled with the old ones and had the struggle removed with the new ones)
I wear recently prescribed glasses but that doesn't mean they correct perfectly and especially doesn't me they can quickly refocus on differen parts of the screen. The glasses work fine for a book held at a consitent distance with my eyes gradually training along... jumping from one corner to the other corner of large screens or mutiple monitors requires a flexibilty in focus that diminishes around the time people hit 40 . |
Mona X
Missions Mining and Mayhem Northern Coalition.
2
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Posted - 2011.09.15 21:26:00 -
[90] - Quote
CCP t0rfifrans wrote:Guys, we're reverting the icons to the way they were before we introduced the new turrets.
We hoped that the rendered previews would turn out more clearly, but it's evident that usability suffered, and as a result, we're changing them back.
I can't comment exactly on when the change will go out, but it's in the pipe. They look right on dev machines with the latest internal build, at least.
Great news. Now lets focus on real issue. What about old cyno effect?
Diomedes Calypso wrote: If say, 30% of the population don't like the looks of new artwork, things really don't need to be prioritized to fit their desires.
Thats about 120% of people using them. :P Winter Expansion is Coming. |
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