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Kengutsi Akira
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
431
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Posted - 2012.04.23 15:33:00 -
[1] - Quote
Based on a thread I saw yesterday but degenerated (as debates here usually do) into trolling and got locked
Player versus player.
That leads to many interesting side notes then: (please respect each other enough not to troll and get each other reported and banned)
Is suicide ganking PVP? the argument here was to the effect of "PvP is combat between players and in suicide ganking there is no two way exchange, which is why I don't see it as PvP. "
Is mining, and production PVP (as the devs have stated everything in EVE is PVP)
Is Marketting (buying/selling, working the market) PVP?
That argument was along the lines of "Another way of looking at this is, if market trading and resource hunting was to be PvP then both PvP and PvE servers would share that PvP component. So those do not define if it's a PvP or PvE server. So the only thing that defines if a server is PvP or PvE would be combat, and people do associate PvP with combat."
What is PVP to you? https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1109909#post1109909
My stance on WiS (updated) |
baltec1
1131
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Posted - 2012.04.23 15:35:00 -
[2] - Quote
If there are two or more people involved then its pvp. |
Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
643
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Posted - 2012.04.23 15:36:00 -
[3] - Quote
Broad question. Speaking for myself, if another player is involved at all, on some level it's PvP.
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Basileus Volkan
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
119
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Posted - 2012.04.23 15:39:00 -
[4] - Quote
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=kkSFIWzi7aA#t=2s
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THE L0CK
Denying You Access
250
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Posted - 2012.04.23 15:40:00 -
[5] - Quote
Yes to all of the above.
Regardless if the transgression is one side, it is still one player on another player. Granted pve ai's provide more fight than and challenge than your average carebear, but still, it is one player fighting another player. P-V-P
You can pvp mine by coming in with a better miner and start mining the same rocks as your rival. Granted this is akin to 2 girls having a non sexy slap fight, it's still a way to beat your opponent.
And as for marketing, while you may never see your opponent, the goal you should be looking at is having your wares bought, not the other guys. Naturally you are going to make sure your prices beat his and the 2 of you may end up going into a .01 isk war. Do you smell what the Lock's cooking? |
Simetraz
State War Academy Caldari State
221
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Posted - 2012.04.23 15:50:00 -
[6] - Quote
In any other MMO the defining difference between a PvE or PvP Server is;
PvP if you see another player from another faction you can attack him/her with no prompts etc etc. PvE if you see another player from another faction you can only attack if the other player agrees or is in a designated area.
As we have no such area's and there is no agreement requirement to fight, EVE is a PvP Server.
Discussing individual elements of the game and trying to classify them as either PVE or PvP is a total waste of time. As you have stated because they will always degenerate into an argument and these types of threads will never serve any purpose but create issues.
Your better off arguing DUCK SEASON !!!! |
Akrasjel Lanate
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
710
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Posted - 2012.04.23 15:59:00 -
[7] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:If there are two or more people involved then its pvp. |
Marcus Ichiro
Kif Korp
9
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Posted - 2012.04.23 16:05:00 -
[8] - Quote
Obligatory "it's PvE because it's the ganker trying to do his job before CONCORD gets him" post. |
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
848
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Posted - 2012.04.23 16:11:00 -
[9] - Quote
If your actions potentially affect another character in an adverse manner, then it can be considered to be PvP Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori. |
Skydell
Space Mermaids Somethin Awfull Forums
224
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Posted - 2012.04.23 16:12:00 -
[10] - Quote
It's all PvP the difference is power of Blob.
- Market PvP: If I have a trillion ISK I am a one man blob. You will lose to me. - Mining PvP: If I have 4 accounts and I can set up an Orca and 3 Hulks I am a one man Blob, you can't compete - straigh up ship to ship while I can do small scale things with Alts and gather Intell with alts for the most part if your corp of 50 stands up to me, you will win.
Ask yourself this question. Are you striving to be independent in EVE or are you striving to be that all important cog in a bigger wheel? The answer will determine what you view as "your PvP". We all play EVE with an agenda. What is PvP? What is your agenda? |
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Kengutsi Akira
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
432
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Posted - 2012.04.23 17:02:00 -
[11] - Quote
Thank you all for answering, yes, my general consensus on it is if theres a player (even if theyre unable to fight back) thats engaged and killed/destroyed/outbid/sole their loot/outwitted/out thought/got the roid you were looking at by another player in MMO format THAT is PVP, where everything in this game IS PVP
Even a solo miner that uses his mined minerals to make his own ships and mods is PVPing as you have to mine (and you are competing with other miners to get rocks and competing with the gankers to stay alive) is still PVP. and technically its consentual PVP given that you consent to be able to be killed at any time when you undock your ship (or sign up for the game whichever works).
One thing Id like to see in the context of WiS is PVP combat in statipns. It would be all the more interesting (although obviously easy to expoit) if there truly were NO safe places i EVE https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1109909#post1109909
My stance on WiS (updated) |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
3453
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Posted - 2012.04.23 17:06:00 -
[12] - Quote
Kengutsi Akira wrote: What is PVP to you?
Wherever two players are in competition to choose an outcome that's PvP
Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Dragon Outlaw
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
76
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Posted - 2012.04.23 17:46:00 -
[13] - Quote
1- I think people should stop confuse pure fighting with what is merely simple and natural competition.
2- Combat ships ganking industrial ships in high sec will always be passionately debated between 2 sets of players who's views are at opposite ends on this particular topic. Until someone clearly draws the line on what should be tolerated and what should be punished. |
Whitehound
189
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Posted - 2012.04.23 18:00:00 -
[14] - Quote
What is it to me...
It is a challenge or a competition between players.
Suicide ganking is PvP. Mining and production (on its own) is PvE. Marketing is PvP.
No more crappy expansions!-á Raise A Little Hell"20 percent of CCP staff fired!" - CEO "Mr. Nice" Hilmar |
MackemInSpace
Harm Co.
3
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Posted - 2012.04.23 19:11:00 -
[15] - Quote
Ganking the defenceless is still Player Versus Player, it's just not mutual PVP... it's not a "fight" it's a slaughter. |
Doc Fury
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
898
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Posted - 2012.04.23 19:14:00 -
[16] - Quote
To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women!
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'no.' |
Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built
703
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Posted - 2012.04.23 19:17:00 -
[17] - Quote
THE L0CK wrote: You can pvp mine by coming in with a better miner and start mining the same rocks as your rival. Granted this is akin to 2 girls having a non sexy slap fight, it's still a way to beat your opponent.
Like in Transmorophers?
I'm of the opinion that, since CCP folks feel everything in EVE is PvP, everything in EVE is PvP. |
Nylith Empyreal
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
101
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Posted - 2012.04.23 19:22:00 -
[18] - Quote
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f33ieCWRWlI -á |
Vangelios
Hedion University Amarr Empire
22
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Posted - 2012.04.23 19:51:00 -
[19] - Quote
Well... lets say this another way.
When someone lose a ship/property by action of another player or players (for instance by suicide gank). It's clearly an PVP event.
And if someone classify this as PVE. Then he obviously thinks that victim has to be environment, not a player, have no mind, no feelings and soul. IMO that is just rude. :)
...-áEach small candle Lights a corner of the dark... |
Kengutsi Akira
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
434
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Posted - 2012.04.23 19:55:00 -
[20] - Quote
Corina Jarr wrote:THE L0CK wrote: You can pvp mine by coming in with a better miner and start mining the same rocks as your rival. Granted this is akin to 2 girls having a non sexy slap fight, it's still a way to beat your opponent.
Like in Transmorophers? I'm of the opinion that, since CCP folks feel everything in EVE is PvP, everything in EVE is PvP.
Also the way I feel
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1109909#post1109909
My stance on WiS (updated) |
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Karn Dulake
Souls Must Be Trampled The.Alliance
506
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Posted - 2012.04.23 20:01:00 -
[21] - Quote
The only non pvp is when some one mines ore and then sells it to the highest bidder.
But i might be wrong I dont normally troll, but when i do i do it on General Discussion. |
Velicitia
Open Designs
869
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Posted - 2012.04.23 20:09:00 -
[22] - Quote
Karn Dulake wrote:The only non pvp is when some one mines ore and then sells it to the highest bidder.
But i might be wrong
nope, they lost that particular round of market PvP. |
Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built
704
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Posted - 2012.04.23 20:52:00 -
[23] - Quote
One thing is for sure. Ship spinning isn't PvP.
Insert competing over spin counts now. |
Fredfredbug4
Kings of Kill EVE Animal Control
228
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Posted - 2012.04.23 20:55:00 -
[24] - Quote
PVP to me is competitive interaction between other players which is essentially all of EVE. |
Twulf
The Konvergent League Sanctuary Pact
40
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Posted - 2012.04.23 21:12:00 -
[25] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:If there are two or more people involved then its pvp.
Do you count as involved if you are ganked and were not looking for PVP. |
Falin Whalen
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
205
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Posted - 2012.04.23 21:26:00 -
[26] - Quote
Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and read the lamantation of their forum posts. You've got to remember that these are just simple miners. These are people of the land. The common clay of New Eden. You know... morons. |
Sigurd Sig Hansen
Hedion University Amarr Empire
24
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Posted - 2012.04.23 21:42:00 -
[27] - Quote
Corina Jarr wrote:One thing is for sure. Ship spinning isn't PvP.
Insert competing over spin counts now.
Im willing to bet there are people that engage in this form of PVP
Twulf wrote:baltec1 wrote:If there are two or more people involved then its pvp. Do you count as involved if you are ganked and were not looking for PVP.
a player ganks (attacks or is versus) a player that doesnt want to fight
Player versus player
so, yes
Also, thats why I love EVE. THIS can happen
Karn Dulake wrote:The only non pvp is when some one mines ore and then sells it to the highest bidder.
But i might be wrong
You are getting ore that another player isnt getting. EVEN mining by itself is considered PVP. Selling it to the highsest bidder. That bidder outbid other players
Mining is the "Deadliest Catch" in this game |
Sasha Azala
Blood and Decay
269
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Posted - 2012.04.23 22:02:00 -
[28] - Quote
I came, I saw, I went.
There is no real difference between this thread and the other thread except you say the other thread got locked (not checked it myself). |
Kengutsi Akira
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
439
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Posted - 2012.04.24 00:50:00 -
[29] - Quote
Sasha Azala wrote:I came, I saw, I went.
There is no real difference between this thread and the other thread except you say the other thread got locked (not checked it myself).
I think the difference is the lack of trolling for one
Youre not going to dispute any of this? Without trolling please
I was hoping youd come so we could have a rational discussion about it and without all those personal attacks and trolling given youre nearly the only person Ive seen have the opinion you do, Id like to see it followed through https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1109909#post1109909
My stance on WiS (updated) |
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