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Koranoth
Lambent Knights Sons of Light
0
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Posted - 2011.09.13 21:11:00 -
[1] - Quote
So I recently got into a Varg, and I am loving it so far, but I have a couple of questions about fits I see on battleclinic.
Take this one for example: http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/52624-Vargurly-Good-DPS-1321DPS-4-3-71KM.html It claims to have over 4 minutes of cap. So I tried fitting a ship very similar, but only got about a minute thirty or so. So I plugged the fit into EFT, and added all level 5 skills. Even EFT says it shouldn't last past two minutes cap wise.
There are other fits like that on Battleclinic that claim to have over 4 minutes of cap, but so far, none of them get past two minutes according to EFT.
Did CCP recently nerf XL boosters, or am I missing something?
Also, I see fits with Pithum Med boosters and boost amps. That seems like a realatively low tank for a mission with multiple BS's. Are those fits really viable?
Realistically, I will take any advice on a Varg fit here... I don't want to lose my baby. |
Flakey Foont
Republic University Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.13 21:36:00 -
[2] - Quote
Battleclinic seems to be pretty weak. Better stuff in the EVE forums if you need help. After a while you know how to fit ships anyway. (Hopefully) |
Wylee Coyote
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.13 21:42:00 -
[3] - Quote
First I'd like to apologize for the sniping i'm about to do.
Koranoth wrote: So I tried fitting a ship very similar, but only got about a minute thirty or so.
Similar =/= same.
Quote:So I plugged the fit into EFT, and added all level 5 skills. Even EFT says it shouldn't last past two minutes cap wise.
Exactly which fit are you referring to here? Your "similar" fit or the exact fit from the BC link?
Quote:There are other fits like that on Battleclinic that claim to have over 4 minutes of cap, but so far, none of them get past two minutes according to EFT.
BC whores like to omit critical information (by choice or by rationale of 'durrr ever1 noes u dew/faktore this/that/teh other intwo it').
Post your findings in their BC loadout's thread and awai either the missing link, or even compliment the post with a -1 until a prper resolution is provided. |
Koranoth
Lambent Knights Sons of Light
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.13 22:00:00 -
[4] - Quote
When I say similar, I mean even more Cap stable, rather than fitting T2, I fit officer for more cap efficiency.
And yes, I plugged the exact fit from BC to EFT.
I guess I will try to get some answers, but the ones I looked at had only +1s and no -1s. |
Arazel Chainfire
The Awakened Armada Apex United
2
|
Posted - 2011.09.13 22:37:00 -
[5] - Quote
Do you realize that there are 2 different types of shield boosters? There is the Gist line, which has vastly reduced cap useage, and the Pith line, which has greatly increased boosting power. If you try all lvl 5's and you use the exact same booster (note, that particular booster, not a random officer one) you will probably end up with the 4 min or so cap claimed by that battleclinic fit. Its probable that you grabbed "an officer booster" figuring that "hey, its officer, it has to be better, right?" and ended up looking at one that follows the Pith style of boosting and not the Gist style of boosting.
-Arazel |
Jill Antaris
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.13 22:52:00 -
[6] - Quote
My EFT says 3m 53s so the info is actually true, you probably picked the wrong booster or got a bug in EFT.
Med booster looks fine to me, I fly my Pala with a med repper and 2 AN EANMs for most L4 with out much issues. |
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
6
|
Posted - 2011.09.14 01:11:00 -
[7] - Quote
Yeah, I'm showing nearly 4 minutes on that one and nearly 5 without the tractors/salvager.
And yes, a Pithum A-type booster is enough, especially with a boost amp. There's a good reason those buggers are so spendy. |
King Rothgar
Autocannons Anonymous
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.14 05:13:00 -
[8] - Quote
As said, the exact shield booster is very important. It's a Gist C-type, those have far less cap usage than t2 or the Pith boosters (and most officer). The trade off is no real gain in boost power over t2. They are popular in pve for that reason. The Pith types and I believe most of the officers as well have increased or equal cap usage to t2, but vastly improved boost amount. You could go the pith route of course and simply pulse it when needed. In terms of how much they rep for any given cap amount, they should be about the same.
I used a vargur with a pith x-type for a while for lvl5's. I occasionally ran a convenient lvl4 with it too, never had to pop a cap booster 800 charge to tank the lvl4's with it and the cap booster was my only cap recharge mod. Of course, it did have a truly absurd tank, even by lvl5 standards. |
Puss in Boots
Commando Elite Corp
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.14 16:02:00 -
[9] - Quote
Koranoth wrote:When I say similar, I mean even more Cap stable, rather than fitting T2, I fit officer for more cap efficiency.
And yes, I plugged the exact fit from BC to EFT.
I guess I will try to get some answers, but the ones I looked at had only +1s and no -1s.
Pro tech tip, post the fit you are calling similar or no one will care. I can tell by your avatar that you are currently training Advanced Shame to 4. |
Valeroth Kyarmentari
Verdant Rampart
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.14 16:34:00 -
[10] - Quote
I run an XL booster on my Varg, and I never run out of cap. I can run it continously for 5m if AB and tractors are not running. I've timed it. I am however using a Gith type XL Booster. I could probably get by without it, but it makes things more relaxing. |
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Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
1
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Posted - 2011.09.14 18:08:00 -
[11] - Quote
I've run level 4 missions with an active-tanked Nighthawk with a single C-class medium booster (the kind that gives more boost, not the kind that's more cap-efficient) and one T2 Shield Boost Amplifier, and it's plenty of tank (with uber skillz) except if you trigger everyone in Attack of the Drones (and you may have to warp out of the AE bonus room - once).
The reason I stopped using that ship was that the Nighthawk simply can not have enough gank.
But get your resists up high, and then a single small or medium high-meta shield booster is amazingly good. Well, I think my low sig helped the small booster a bit. On a sig-swelling battleship you'd probably need a medium.
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TrollFace TrololMcFluf
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.14 18:25:00 -
[12] - Quote
why do you need 4 mins of cap on a XL boosting marauder 30 seconds is more than enough |
rusty532
Aiding and Abetting
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.14 19:03:00 -
[13] - Quote
If you really need more than 1 min of sustained XL boosting, your doing it wrong. They were never meant to permarun, rather 'flashing' every now and then to rep damage taken. Train with a maelstrom if you can't handle the minute multitasking required. The damage output of a Vargur should mitigate incoming dps and you should only be running it consecutively during the first few minutes of a new room. |
Lady Spank
In Praise Of Shadows
60
|
Posted - 2011.09.15 05:41:00 -
[14] - Quote
XL boosters are for burst tanking as mentioned.
I wouldn't use Battleclinic for competent fits.
My Vargur was fitted with the following:
[Vargur, easy mode] Tracking Enhancer II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Tracking Enhancer II
Gist A-Type Large Shield Booster Shield Boost Amplifier II Shield Boost Amplifier II Republic Fleet 100MN Afterburner Ballistic Deflection Field II Explosion Dampening Field II
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L Salvager I Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Warrior II x5 Hammerhead II x5
(a¦á_a¦â) ~ Get Out, Nasty Face ~ (a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á_a¦â)(a¦á... |
fogbird
SmokingGuns Corp
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.15 09:34:00 -
[15] - Quote
if you have put that exact fit into eft and received only 1min cap, something is wrong with your eft or the skills aren't set to 5.
Lady Spank wrote:XL boosters are for burst tanking as mentioned.
I wouldn't use Battleclinic for competent fits.
My Vargur was fitted with the following:
[Vargur, easy mode] too much tank, too little gank
lady, while i agree that bc isnt the best place to get your fits from, it delivers on the cookie cutter fits perfectly well, if you have an understanding for fitting and know what to look for. so i dont really get the hate for it (except if you refer to the comments in the fitting section, that are mainly full of ****).
in fact seeing your fit, you should better have checked bc in this case.
cheers! |
thoth rothschild
Method of Destruction Snatch Victory
0
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Posted - 2011.09.15 10:00:00 -
[16] - Quote
Maybe this can help...
Implants:
CC8 Cr8
this might explain the 2 minutes.
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none770
Combined Imperial Fleet JIHADASQUAD
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.15 11:49:00 -
[17] - Quote
maybe this will help more YOU DONT HAVE TO BE CAP STABLE YOU NEWB JESUS YOUR DPS IS YOUR TANK
thanks |
Flakey Foont
Republic University Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.15 15:29:00 -
[18] - Quote
none770 wrote:maybe this will help more YOU DONT HAVE TO BE CAP STABLE YOU NEWB JESUS YOUR DPS IS YOUR TANK
thanks
This^^
All newbs or folks that buy toons think cap stable is the goal. It isn't. |
Othran
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
23
|
Posted - 2011.09.15 15:44:00 -
[19] - Quote
BC is full of EFT warriors who pimp up imaginary ships. Most have no experience at all of flying said ships. Relying on BC fits is fail.
What's epic fail is changing a BC fit and then coming here to whinge it doesn't work like the fit you changed.
Well done for the stupidest thread of the forums so far |
Puss in Boots
Commando Elite Corp
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.15 15:52:00 -
[20] - Quote
fogbird wrote:if you have put that exact fit into eft and received only 1min cap, something is wrong with your eft or the skills aren't set to 5. Lady Spank wrote:XL boosters are for burst tanking as mentioned.
I wouldn't use Battleclinic for competent fits.
My Vargur was fitted with the following:
[Vargur, easy mode] too much tank, too little gank
lady, while i agree that bc isnt the best place to get your fits from, it delivers on the cookie cutter fits perfectly well, if you have an understanding for fitting and know what to look for. so i dont really get the hate for it (except if you refer to the comments in the fitting section, that are mainly full of ****). in fact seeing your fit, you should better have checked bc in this case. cheers!
What's wrong with that fit? Too many fit snobs on this forum with out giving info on how to make it better. Stop posting.
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freshspree
Dissonance Corp BLACK-MARK
15
|
Posted - 2011.09.15 15:58:00 -
[21] - Quote
Check in game for Gist C-type XL shield booster. All these guys just giving T.M.I. |
Grimpak
Midnight Elites Echelon Rising
42
|
Posted - 2011.09.15 18:11:00 -
[22] - Quote
fogbird wrote:if you have put that exact fit into eft and received only 1min cap, something is wrong with your eft or the skills aren't set to 5. Lady Spank wrote:XL boosters are for burst tanking as mentioned.
I wouldn't use Battleclinic for competent fits.
My Vargur was fitted with the following:
[Vargur, easy mode] too much tank, too little gank
lady, while i agree that bc isnt the best place to get your fits from, it delivers on the cookie cutter fits perfectly well, if you have an understanding for fitting and know what to look for. so i dont really get the hate for it (except if you refer to the comments in the fitting section, that are mainly full of ****). in fact seeing your fit, you should better have checked bc in this case. cheers! good man, I don't know how much more gank you can slap on that vargur. unless you fit RF or officer gyros. [img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]
[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right |
Koranoth
Lambent Knights Sons of Light
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.15 20:24:00 -
[23] - Quote
I checked BC, and it is gist... how embarrassing. Then I created a topic on what I'm about to ask, instead of hitting reply... how embarrassing X2.
You were completely correct about the four minutes, however, 4 minutes, still worries me. Don't get me wrong, I should without a doubt be able to clear the majority of the firepower within four minutes, I'm still worried about the what ifs. What if I for some reason miss continually due to Luck of the Draw. What if I get ws'd and am unable to escape from a hit and run mission type. Once those 4 minutes are up, I'm popped, and a couple billion is down the drain.
That is why I would like to know the plausibility of using a Pithum A-Type Med booster and a Boost Amp. I know supposedly only newbs like their ships cap stable, but I would rather be a cap stable newb, than a not cap stable "pro" floating around in a pod because he ran out of cap. Better safe than sorry is a saying I try to live by.
So if a Pithum A-Type Med and a boost amp would be enough to tank level 4s, I would be over joyed. |
Flakey Foont
Republic University Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.15 21:05:00 -
[24] - Quote
Koranoth wrote:I checked BC, and it is gist... how embarrassing. Then I created a topic on what I'm about to ask, instead of hitting reply... how embarrassing X2.
You were completely correct about the four minutes, however, 4 minutes, still worries me. Don't get me wrong, I should without a doubt be able to clear the majority of the firepower within four minutes, I'm still worried about the what ifs. What if I for some reason miss continually due to Luck of the Draw. What if I get ws'd and am unable to escape from a hit and run mission type. Once those 4 minutes are up, I'm popped, and a couple billion is down the drain.
That is why I would like to know the plausibility of using a Pithum A-Type Med booster and a Boost Amp. I know supposedly only newbs like their ships cap stable, but I would rather be a cap stable newb, than a not cap stable "pro" floating around in a pod because he ran out of cap. Better safe than sorry is a saying I try to live by.
So if a Pithum A-Type Med and a boost amp would be enough to tank level 4s, I would be over joyed.
Once more. You don't run an XL for 4mins straight. You pulse as needed, Cap regens. You pulse. Cap regens. This adds up to a lot more than 4mins.
But if you can afford a Pith Med you can run it constantly. |
Koranoth
Lambent Knights Sons of Light
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.15 21:21:00 -
[25] - Quote
And on top of being able to run it constantly, would it be enough to tank level 4s?
If not, I suppose I might have to go with the Gist C-Type. |
fogbird
SmokingGuns Corp
1
|
Posted - 2011.09.16 09:03:00 -
[26] - Quote
Puss in Boots wrote:fogbird wrote:if you have put that exact fit into eft and received only 1min cap, something is wrong with your eft or the skills aren't set to 5. Lady Spank wrote:XL boosters are for burst tanking as mentioned.
I wouldn't use Battleclinic for competent fits.
My Vargur was fitted with the following:
[Vargur, easy mode] too much tank, too little gank
lady, while i agree that bc isnt the best place to get your fits from, it delivers on the cookie cutter fits perfectly well, if you have an understanding for fitting and know what to look for. so i dont really get the hate for it (except if you refer to the comments in the fitting section, that are mainly full of ****). in fact seeing your fit, you should better have checked bc in this case.cheers! What's wrong with that fit? Too many fit snobs on this forum with out giving info on how to make it better. Stop posting.
real funny dude, i highlighted the parts in my post where i said what could be better on that fit namely fitting it like the bc fit. and i say it once more, it in fact is not as good a fit as the one the op found on bc, which was the whole point of my post in context of the original fit being dissed. i however never said, that ladies fit is bad or wrong, so stop being so whiny about it.
now in detail for you and the good man grimpak:
the tank part: the atype large booster is more expensive and will provide a stable perma tank on ladies setup without the ab running. this is ok but not necessary. the burst tank on the bc setup works sufficiently long and tanks harder for this period. personally i fly only 2 hardeners and one boostamp.
the gank part: for a burst tank to work, the more gank you have the better. and thats exactly why i dont think its good to spend so much on the booster but forgo faction gyros. they are important and you will use 4 of them for max. effect. on top of that a 2t burst mod works very well on all marauders because they have only 2 rig slots and the calibration is sufficient for a usefull second rig. i fly a t2 em shield amp. if you are semi serious about mission running and pvp you will have damage implants too. so combining the 4 (faction) gyros, the 2t burst and 1 cheap gunslinger implant (included in both setups) effects nets 175 dps more from guns alone (which is a lot -> ~20%!) and with better range on top (scripted TCs possible depending on mission).
little stuff: there are only a very few missions, where an ab is useful. therefore id rather put a drone link in 1 of the highs and go sentries. the varg can only effectively field two of them, but they really help with stuff further out, when you dont want to move a lot.
conclusion: how people fly missions is oc vastly different. i like them to be over as soon as possible, so the more gank the better for me. if you have an unstable connection or are semy afk by all means ladies fit will suit you, but you loose out on a lot of dps.
hope this helps and cheers!
edit: contend addition |
Lady Go Diveher
The Independent Troll Society
18
|
Posted - 2011.09.16 11:51:00 -
[27] - Quote
fogbird wrote:Puss in Boots wrote:fogbird wrote:if you have put that exact fit into eft and received only 1min cap, something is wrong with your eft or the skills aren't set to 5. Lady Spank wrote:XL boosters are for burst tanking as mentioned.
I wouldn't use Battleclinic for competent fits.
My Vargur was fitted with the following:
[Vargur, easy mode] too much tank, too little gank
lady, while i agree that bc isnt the best place to get your fits from, it delivers on the cookie cutter fits perfectly well, if you have an understanding for fitting and know what to look for. so i dont really get the hate for it (except if you refer to the comments in the fitting section, that are mainly full of ****). in fact seeing your fit, you should better have checked bc in this case.cheers! What's wrong with that fit? Too many fit snobs on this forum with out giving info on how to make it better. Stop posting. real funny dude, i highlighted the parts in my post where i said what could be better on that fit namely fitting it like the bc fit. and i say it once more, it in fact is not as good a fit as the one the op found on bc, which was the whole point of my post in context of the original fit being dissed. i however never said, that ladies fit is bad or wrong, so stop being so whiny about it. now in detail for you and the good man grimpak: the tank part: the atype large booster is more expensive and will provide a stable perma tank on ladies setup without the ab running. this is ok but not necessary. the burst tank on the bc setup works sufficiently long and tanks harder for this period. personally i fly only 2 hardeners and one boostamp. the gank part: for a burst tank to work, the more gank you have the better. and thats exactly why i dont think its good to spend so much on the booster but forgo faction gyros. they are important and you will use 4 of them for max. effect. on top of that a 2t burst mod works very well on all marauders because they have only 2 rig slots and the calibration is sufficient for a usefull second rig. i fly a t2 em shield amp. if you are semi serious about mission running and pvp you will have damage implants too. so combining the 4 (faction) gyros, the 2t burst and 1 cheap gunslinger implant (included in both setups) effects nets 175 dps more from guns alone (which is a lot -> ~20%!) and with better range on top (scripted TCs possible depending on mission). little stuff: there are only a very few missions, where an ab is useful. therefore id rather put a drone link in 1 of the highs and go sentries. the varg can only effectively field two of them, but they really help with stuff further out, when you dont want to move a lot. conclusion: how people fly missions is oc vastly different. i like them to be over as soon as possible, so the more gank the better for me. if you have an unstable connection or are semy afk by all means ladies fit will suit you, but you loose out on a lot of dps. hope this helps and cheers! edit: contend addition
Dude, you're an idiot.
Lady's fit was labelled "EASY MODE" and the fit was, surprise surprise, setup to be easy to fly
People who min/max fits to eek out the maximum DPS are usually pretty hardcore into mission running, as they're not doing them (semi) AFK. If you're STILL making most of your ISK running missions by the time you can fly a Vargur, then you have issues my friend. Having to pulse your shield booster means you have to pay attention.
You then suggest 4 gyro's ... which shows a complete lack of understanding of: - Tracking and falloff, and how applied DPS works - The stacking penalty
Pimping the gyro's gives you an extra ~5% DPS for ~300mil and, again, has a very poor ROI unless you're a complete mission bear. Pimping the shield booster, however, makes the whole fit actually work.
So, in summary, you're pretty much the kind of idiot you find on battleclinic. |
none770
Combined Imperial Fleet JIHADASQUAD
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.16 11:53:00 -
[28] - Quote
so you would rather be cap stable... so when you hit the wrong trigger your just ****** right? i would everyday of the week rather have that xl booster that lasts for 3 mins then that med booster thats cap stable... what are you gonna do if you hit the wrong trigger and the dps is higher then your tank? the xl booster gives you the time you need to break points and warp out the med booster just boosts happily as you die
so again... your a newb go faction pimp a cnr with cprs in the lows like a cool kid |
fogbird
SmokingGuns Corp
1
|
Posted - 2011.09.16 12:11:00 -
[29] - Quote
Lady Go Diveher wrote: no knowledge, just insults
1. the fit has 20% more dmg at better range and tanks harder. it is not harder to fly and applies dmg better.
2. the discussion about 4 dmg mods vs 3 is as old as your outdated opinion on mission running and faction boosters.
3. you made an ass of yourself and im sorry for you.
cheers!
and please more emoticons in your next post, only one hardly makes it more credible. |
Puss in Boots
Commando Elite Corp
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.16 12:25:00 -
[30] - Quote
"You then suggest 4 gyro's ... which shows a complete lack of understanding of: - Tracking and falloff, and how applied DPS works - The stacking penalty"
This. ^^
I don't always mission in EFT, but when I do... I'd rather have 3 faction gyro's than 4 t2.
The following is a fit just for sake of comparison of gyro dps and is not cap stable so it doesn't fit the requirements of the op "4minutes 31 seconds" (but as stated by others, doesn't need to be as you don't need the booster on often). First is 3 faction gyro with 2 TE II's, second is 4 T2 Gyro with 1 TE. Everything else is the same. DPS doesn't include drones and is with my mission runners skills.
3 faction gyro = 771 dps 4.0/64.4 phased plasma 806 at skills to 5 4 t2 gyro = 772 dps 3.6/53.3 phased plasma 808 at skills to 5
[Vargur, Sir Topam Hat]
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II
Shadow Serpentis Tracking Computer Shadow Serpentis 100MN Afterburner Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Dread Guristas Shield Boost Amplifier Pith X-Type Large Shield Booster
Small Tractor Beam I Salvager I Salvager I 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Phased Plasma L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Phased Plasma L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Phased Plasma L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Phased Plasma L
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Personally, I prefer the Mach, but that is a bit that can be more skill intensive to make it better than this. |
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