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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 27 post(s) |
SXYGeeK
Gallente Interstellar Planetary KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2009.02.19 18:03:00 -
[241]
seems to be related to the removal of the Scene 2 options. they seemed to clean up the options and stop us from disabling scene 2. and on previous patches the probing was a no go with scene 2 on, they realy haven't broken anything with this patch, they just force us to use the new scene 2 which they dont have the probe stuff working in yet.
:( |
Morscerta
Gallente Living in the Fridge
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Posted - 2009.02.19 20:19:00 -
[242]
Edited by: Morscerta on 19/02/2009 20:19:28 I can get it to work but I had to revert back to old scanning habits jumping to various planets and drop a probe there. I got warpable results for anomalies. The trouble know is that all results for whatever I have found are collapsed into on single spot on the solar system map. Therefore I can not tell at which planet I have to scan for the rest.
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Kweel Nakashyn
Minmatar Kernel of War Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2009.02.19 21:33:00 -
[243]
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
Ok, here's some things:
- The UI widget will get another pass if/when we have time and resources to do so (I think it needs a new model and so on if we want to change the shape, among other things). My personal opinion is that the Homeworld system, while good, is not perfect: having to use a modifier key is not ideal, I often ran into issues getting ranges right due to camera positioning, and I suspect that its general fitness for use would be less for this application than it was in Homeworld, due to the scanning system often requiring significant Z-axis tweaking, while Homeworld movement (in the campaigns - I never got into multiplayer) tended towards being "ecliptic plane plus a bit of Z".
The specific implementation in Homeworld is also somewhat a product of its circumstances, regarding camera positioning and the non-persistant nature of the movement control. Now all that said, I'm not denying that it pretty much worked, and in particular that it was simple and that the (X,Y)+Z nature of it fits nicely in with the way most people approach 3D-space problems, but I'd rather try and produce something using its best aspects rather than simply copying it. That said, I am not a UI designer, and I'll bow to the opinions of our in-house guys who are
The problem is simple. You try to move a thing in 3d using a 2D tool (the mouse).
Meh. You have only few solutions : - either you remove z from the game. Probe all in 2D - either you do X then Y then Z like today - either you make X and Y, then Z like homeworld - either you use solid angle and radius (like a bow : aim a direction and shoot with strengh/no strengh) - either i don't know. there's not many solutions i guess.
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
- ROF on launchers has been lowered, because it was annoying me
3/10 for the trolling attempt :( If it was annoying you, don't you think it'll annoy users ?
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
- Revisiting the rest of the intel suite is still on our near-future to-do list; we wanted it in Apocrypha but didn't have time to squeez
I hope you have solid plans for the local because 50% of the player still want it. It really divides the community. Fetchez la vache ! moar(tm) > soon(tm) \o/
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Ausser
Cybertech Industrials Agency
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Posted - 2009.02.19 23:29:00 -
[244]
Is it really a good idea to swap the effect of the skills 'Astrometric Triangulation' and 'Signal Acquision'?
Players with maxed AT and low SA skills get nerfed by this decision.
The following solution looks better and is without pain for anybody:
- Change effect of SA to give strength bonus like AT, maybe little stronger than AT. Let AT be a prerequisite for SA. Then rename SA to something like 'Advanced Astrometric Triangulation'.
- Introduce a new skill with the old name 'Signal Acquision', make it rank 3 or so. Give it the scan duration bonus like it was on the old rank 8 skill.
This way nobody gets hurt and old players with both skills at 5 still have a little advantage to scan down the hard-to-find-stuff, at least for a while.
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Ausser
Cybertech Industrials Agency
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Posted - 2009.02.19 23:35:00 -
[245]
Originally by: Kweel Nakashyn
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
Ok, here's some things:
- The UI widget will get another pass if/when we have time and resources to do so (I think it needs a new model and so on if we want to change the shape, among other things). My personal opinion is that the Homeworld system, while good, is not perfect: having to use a modifier key is not ideal, I often ran into issues getting ranges right due to camera positioning, and I suspect that its general fitness for use would be less for this application than it was in Homeworld, due to the scanning system often requiring significant Z-axis tweaking, while Homeworld movement (in the campaigns - I never got into multiplayer) tended towards being "ecliptic plane plus a bit of Z".
The specific implementation in Homeworld is also somewhat a product of its circumstances, regarding camera positioning and the non-persistant nature of the movement control. Now all that said, I'm not denying that it pretty much worked, and in particular that it was simple and that the (X,Y)+Z nature of it fits nicely in with the way most people approach 3D-space problems, but I'd rather try and produce something using its best aspects rather than simply copying it. That said, I am not a UI designer, and I'll bow to the opinions of our in-house guys who are
The problem is simple. You try to move a thing in 3d using a 2D tool (the mouse).
Meh. You have only few solutions : - either you remove z from the game. Probe all in 2D - either you do X then Y then Z like today - either you make X and Y, then Z like homeworld - either you use solid angle and radius (like a bow : aim a direction and shoot with strengh/no strengh) - either i don't know. there's not many solutions i guess.
It would be great if EVE could get support for input devices like these:
http://www.3dconnexion.com
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Sigras
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Posted - 2009.02.20 00:09:00 -
[246]
so has anyone gotten to WH space yet? do we know if the WH's are even open?
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Roemy Schneider
BINFORD
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Posted - 2009.02.20 00:33:00 -
[247]
page 9, still no mention of the god mode that will be eccm (and sig reducers)
the new cloak... now available as remote version, too -.- - putting the gist back into logistics |
Sendinal Cortere
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Posted - 2009.02.20 00:57:00 -
[248]
Originally by: Sigras so has anyone gotten to WH space yet? do we know if the WH's are even open?
Some people have gotten devs to move them to wh space and there is a report floating on the forums somewhere.
has anyone gotten there 'legally' I doubt it. The entire probing system is borked on this patch so even if they opened them up you can't find them.
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An Anarchyyt
Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.02.20 02:24:00 -
[249]
Originally by: Sendinal Cortere
Originally by: Sigras so has anyone gotten to WH space yet? do we know if the WH's are even open?
Some people have gotten devs to move them to wh space and there is a report floating on the forums somewhere.
has anyone gotten there 'legally' I doubt it. The entire probing system is borked on this patch so even if they opened them up you can't find them.
Well, I "legally" went through a bunch after I was given a BM.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
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mamolian
Cruoris Seraphim
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Posted - 2009.02.20 03:15:00 -
[250]
Originally by: An Anarchyyt
Well, I "legally" went through a bunch after I was given a BM.
:battlestars:
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Cassandra Elan
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Posted - 2009.02.20 04:15:00 -
[251]
Edited by: Cassandra Elan on 20/02/2009 04:18:15
Originally by: Ausser Is it really a good idea to swap the effect of the skills 'Astrometric Triangulation' and 'Signal Acquision'?
Players with maxed AT and low SA skills get nerfed by this decision.
The following solution looks better and is without pain for anybody:
- Change effect of SA to give strength bonus like AT, maybe little stronger than AT. Let AT be a prerequisite for SA. Then rename SA to something like 'Advanced Astrometric Triangulation'.
- Introduce a new skill with the old name 'Signal Acquision', make it rank 3 or so. Give it the scan duration bonus like it was on the old rank 8 skill.
This way nobody gets hurt and old players with both skills at 5 still have a little advantage to scan down the hard-to-find-stuff, at least for a while.
They didn't swap the ranks, just the names. Your SP totals are safe. Apparently you didn't notice the new skill that actually replaces triangulation - Astrometric Acquisition (rank 5)
Also, Triangulation got changed to 10% strength per level, level 3 is now more effective than level 5 was before.
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mamolian
Cruoris Seraphim
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Posted - 2009.02.20 04:18:00 -
[252]
We need some major improvement to the probe and scanning interface to make it useful for combat scanning..
Ideally I'd like to see:
? The combat probe launcher being able to launch 4 probes at a time. (Obviously to get into system, get the probes out, and get recloaked asap)
? The ability to link upto 4 probes together into a useful scanning shape, and have them move using only 1 movement widget, also scaling their spaceing depending on their scan range.. (this is just one idea.. probably not the most efficient or acceptable solution, but working towards something in this area is badly needed)
? The ability to warp to "bad" hits.. this is a MUST! I want to be able to warp to my prey even if the closest I can get is between 50 and several hundred KM..
? PVP scanning mechanics needs to be FAST.. You need to be finding targets in a timeframe measured in seconds.. Not minutes..
Greyscale.. You are WRONG.. this idea of yours that it is TOO EASY to find targets using the current TQ game mechanics.. is absolute bull**** tbh.
It can be reasonably easy to find your target when your scanning using a character that is completely specialised with months of training.. flying a purposely fit covert ops frigate, with rigs/implants etc. It is certainly not easy to find your prey when your scanning in your average ship not specifically designed to use the recon launchers.. And with both cases its impossible to catch a competent pilot, especially one that has a cloak fitted. This is perfectly fine! I don't mind a competent pilot suriving.. this is how it should be!
This method of scanning will have every ****ing ****** flying a raven becoming next to impossible to catch.. its unacceptable! And whats more.. you can also be safe in the knowledge that if the enemy does not have an Interdictor or Hictor on grid bubbling your ship, you can safely log off without fear of being podded. This is a ****ing outrage.
When I have 4 probes in say the 4 AU range, surrounding a target I want a hit I can warp to with very low scan deviations if this ship is not in deadspace. I want this to be possible to achieve within 1 minute average scantime.. This patch will already be a huge boost for mission runners/Plex Runners and NPCers in general, It will still be a hell of a chore to scan someone out.. But if its released onto TQ with even some of the above suggestions it wont be so bad for us folks intent on ****ting all over these carebears.
o7
Mamo
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Sasha Sen
Gallente United Industries LTD. Shadow Empire.
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Posted - 2009.02.20 06:16:00 -
[253]
I have attempted to figure out the new scanning system for the 4th time today on Sisi. Still having difficulty getting any hits on any anomaly that I can warp to. I know I'm doing something wrong, but my point is, it's not very clear what is what and how to achieve a simple task such as getting a point in space to warp to. I am in a system with factional warfare objectives, scanning for them. I have hits and yet still nothing to warp to. I am afraid this new system is going to be very confusing for majority of the player base. Definitely a fail for anyone who is going to pick up the boxed version sometime in the next few months.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________
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Space Wanderer
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Posted - 2009.02.20 09:41:00 -
[254]
Originally by: mamolian ? PVP scanning mechanics needs to be FAST.. You need to be finding targets in a timeframe measured in seconds.. Not minutes..
As often happens to everybody, you are only watching it from one side. While I do agree that there are some pvp situations where a fast scan is essential, you are not commenting on the fact that DS protection on ships has been removed, which makes a whole part of the pvp scan scene much easier, not harder.
If things are maintained as they currently are and only your changes were implemented, it would be strongly unbalancing scanning mechanics on the other side.
What I think is a good suggestion instead, is to extend the current pvp-timeout mechanism to all combat situations, pvp and pve. That is a more balanced suggestion, that would apply to many of the current complaints with finding ships (i.e. logoffskis), helping to at least alleviate the problem that you see.
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Kitano
THE MuPPeT FaCTOrY PuPPet MasTers
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Posted - 2009.02.20 09:51:00 -
[255]
Personally I'm happy with the setup you guys have gone with... I rarely use recon probes these days, directional scan FTW...
Of course with larger fleet engagements a prober is always handy for catching those slow warping SS'd battleships, I can understand that would be annoying having to triangulate...
Probing just slows down my style of fast paced pew pew..
I cannot wait until SiSi's core scanning is working well... I am eagerly looking forward to getting into W-space..
Take your time CCP... don't prematurely release... have a couple of beers kick back, don't blow that load of bug filled patch... I'd prefer to wait than have TQ randomly going down for 6+ hours at a time...
P3nis in Local Mexican P3N15 |
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CCP Navigator
C C P CCP
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Posted - 2009.02.20 13:22:00 -
[256]
test.
Navigator Senior Community Representative CCP Games, Email |
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An Anarchyyt
Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.02.20 13:28:00 -
[257]
It appears that while probes are warping now, I still don't get any visual on where my hit is. So, still broken.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
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Ausser
Cybertech Industrials Agency
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Posted - 2009.02.20 14:10:00 -
[258]
Originally by: Cassandra Elan Edited by: Cassandra Elan on 20/02/2009 04:18:15
Originally by: Ausser Is it really a good idea to swap the effect of the skills 'Astrometric Triangulation' and 'Signal Acquision'?
Players with maxed AT and low SA skills get nerfed by this decision.
The following solution looks better and is without pain for anybody:
- Change effect of SA to give strength bonus like AT, maybe little stronger than AT. Let AT be a prerequisite for SA. Then rename SA to something like 'Advanced Astrometric Triangulation'.
- Introduce a new skill with the old name 'Signal Acquision', make it rank 3 or so. Give it the scan duration bonus like it was on the old rank 8 skill.
This way nobody gets hurt and old players with both skills at 5 still have a little advantage to scan down the hard-to-find-stuff, at least for a while.
They didn't swap the ranks, just the names. Your SP totals are safe. Apparently you didn't notice the new skill that actually replaces triangulation - Astrometric Acquisition (rank 5)
Also, Triangulation got changed to 10% strength per level, level 3 is now more effective than level 5 was before.
You are right, the skillpoints are not lost - they have a different effect now, and that's the problem. The skillpoints are effectiveley 'moved' from a scan strength skill into a scan time skill, where the player who spent time on skilling didnt wanted to have them.
To 'boost' the new Astrometric Triangulation skill to 10% per level, so 3x10% = 30% --> more than 25% before, does not resolve the problem. That's because the scan targets are also balanced from easy ones (you need skill at 1 to find them) up to the hard-to-find ones (you need skill maxed out). Because of this balancing it does not matter how strong the bonus from AT skill is per level (it could be 1000% or just 5%), the important point is how many levels you are missing untill you reach maximum scan strength. So this cosmetic 'boost' is not a boost, its a reduction in scan strength by 40% (when dropping from lvl 5 to lvl 3).
The skill change as it is now just dumps 1m skillpoints from a usefull scan strength skill (rank 5) into a less usefull scan time skill (rank 5 too). The decision made by the player to spend skill time for scan strength instead of scan speed is ignored.
The solution i've suggested in my first post solves this problem.
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Evlyna
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Posted - 2009.02.20 14:36:00 -
[259]
And here we go again... I won't bother anymore to test the client until minimum a week or 2 before release date. It's totally pointless to ask us to test stuff that devs should see even before asking us to report.
In 5 minutes:
Probing/Scanning still doesn't work. Probes are sometimes warping, sometimes return back to original position after being moved, still don't see signal sphere, results are not filtered as asked. Probes won't come back in cargo. Etc. etc.
Market is still slippy
Map is still screwed up
Ship/gates/station models disapear when you undock.
And so on and on and on. I stopped there already bored to see the same stuff.
The very first Acrophalic client from a month ago was working better than every clients coming after it.
Instead of losing time on changing the "Scanning", "Recover", "Destroy" probes icons or the color of the arrow when your mouse is on it.... FIX THE DAMN THING.
I'll leave the testing to the maniacs. I'm out!
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Miss Moonwych
Formedian Shadows
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Posted - 2009.02.20 14:54:00 -
[260]
Wormholes work!
Its just damn hard to find them now with the more and less broken solarsystem.
Main problem is that you don't see your results in the map (no red dots/circles) so you have to use the target strength and move one probe to determine where the target is: very cumbersome.
pic: http://img15.imageshack.us/my.php?image=20090220144507qi2.jpg
Regards,
M.M.
PS. Guess what I forgot to do... didn't make a bm of the wh exit. sh*t. ok good practice I guess.
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Miss Moonwych
Formedian Shadows
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Posted - 2009.02.20 14:55:00 -
[261]
Wormholes work!
Its just damn hard to find them now with the more and less broken solarsystem.
Main problem is that you don't see your results in the map (no red dots/circles) so you have to use the target strength and move one probe to determine where the target is: very cumbersome.
pic: http://img15.imageshack.us/my.php?image=20090220144507qi2.jpg
Regards,
M.M.
PS. Guess what I forgot to do... didn't make a bm of the wh exit. sh*t. ok good practice I guess.
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Ausser
Cybertech Industrials Agency
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Posted - 2009.02.20 15:02:00 -
[262]
Originally by: Cassandra Elan Edited by: Cassandra Elan on 20/02/2009 04:18:15
Originally by: Ausser Is it really a good idea to swap the effect of the skills 'Astrometric Triangulation' and 'Signal Acquision'?
Players with maxed AT and low SA skills get nerfed by this decision.
The following solution looks better and is without pain for anybody:
- Change effect of SA to give strength bonus like AT, maybe little stronger than AT. Let AT be a prerequisite for SA. Then rename SA to something like 'Advanced Astrometric Triangulation'.
- Introduce a new skill with the old name 'Signal Acquision', make it rank 3 or so. Give it the scan duration bonus like it was on the old rank 8 skill.
This way nobody gets hurt and old players with both skills at 5 still have a little advantage to scan down the hard-to-find-stuff, at least for a while.
They didn't swap the ranks, just the names. Your SP totals are safe. Apparently you didn't notice the new skill that actually replaces triangulation - Astrometric Acquisition (rank 5)
Also, Triangulation got changed to 10% strength per level, level 3 is now more effective than level 5 was before.
You are right, the skillpoints are not lost - they get another name and effect. And that's the problem.
A player who decided to spend 1.28m skillpoints into valuable scan strength now ends up with these skill points dumped into a less valuable scan time skill.
The 'boost' in effect of the new strength skill is not more effective than before, even if it looks like it would (+25% < +30%). This is because of balancing the scan targets. These were balanced so the hard-to-find ones needed skill at 5 (25% bonus), the new scan targets will be balanced the same way, they will need the 50% scan strength bonus of a maxed skill. We have: +25% (old) = +50% (new). So it is a drop by 40% if your skill gets 'morphed' from lvl 5 (+25%) to lvl 3 (+30%).
The decision to invest skilltime into scan strength should not be touched.
I can allready see lots of reimbusement petitions where ppl ask to move their skillpoints back from scan time to scan strength.
The suggestion in my first post solves the problem.
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Ausser
Cybertech Industrials Agency
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Posted - 2009.02.20 15:07:00 -
[263]
Originally by: Cassandra Elan Edited by: Cassandra Elan on 20/02/2009 04:18:15
Originally by: Ausser Is it really a good idea to swap the effect of the skills 'Astrometric Triangulation' and 'Signal Acquision'?
Players with maxed AT and low SA skills get nerfed by this decision.
The following solution looks better and is without pain for anybody:
- Change effect of SA to give strength bonus like AT, maybe little stronger than AT. Let AT be a prerequisite for SA. Then rename SA to something like 'Advanced Astrometric Triangulation'.
- Introduce a new skill with the old name 'Signal Acquision', make it rank 3 or so. Give it the scan duration bonus like it was on the old rank 8 skill.
This way nobody gets hurt and old players with both skills at 5 still have a little advantage to scan down the hard-to-find-stuff, at least for a while.
They didn't swap the ranks, just the names. Your SP totals are safe. Apparently you didn't notice the new skill that actually replaces triangulation - Astrometric Acquisition (rank 5)
Also, Triangulation got changed to 10% strength per level, level 3 is now more effective than level 5 was before.
You are right, the skillpoints are not lost - they get another name and effect. And that's the problem.
A player who decided to spend 1.28m skillpoints into valuable scan strength now ends up with these skill points dumped into a less valuable scan time skill.
The 'boost' in effect of the new strength skill is not more effective than before, even if it looks like it would (+25% < +30%). This is because of balancing the scan targets. These were balanced so the hard-to-find ones needed skill at 5 (25% bonus), the new scan targets will be balanced the same way, they will need the 50% scan strength bonus of a maxed skill. We have: +25% (old) = +50% (new). So it is a drop by 40% if your skill gets 'morphed' from lvl 5 to lvl 3.
The decision to invest skilltime into scan strength should not be touched.
I can see lots of reimbusement petitions where ppl ask to move their skillpoints from scan time to scan strength.
The suggestion in my first post solves the problem.
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Ausser
Cybertech Industrials Agency
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Posted - 2009.02.20 15:09:00 -
[264]
Originally by: Cassandra Elan Edited by: Cassandra Elan on 20/02/2009 04:18:15
Originally by: Ausser Is it really a good idea to swap the effect of the skills 'Astrometric Triangulation' and 'Signal Acquision'?
Players with maxed AT and low SA skills get nerfed by this decision.
The following solution looks better and is without pain for anybody:
- Change effect of SA to give strength bonus like AT, maybe little stronger than AT. Let AT be a prerequisite for SA. Then rename SA to something like 'Advanced Astrometric Triangulation'.
- Introduce a new skill with the old name 'Signal Acquision', make it rank 3 or so. Give it the scan duration bonus like it was on the old rank 8 skill.
This way nobody gets hurt and old players with both skills at 5 still have a little advantage to scan down the hard-to-find-stuff, at least for a while.
They didn't swap the ranks, just the names. Your SP totals are safe. Apparently you didn't notice the new skill that actually replaces triangulation - Astrometric Acquisition (rank 5)
Also, Triangulation got changed to 10% strength per level, level 3 is now more effective than level 5 was before.
You are right, the skillpoints are not lost - they get another name and effect. And that's the problem.
A player who decided to spend 1.28m skillpoints into valuable scan strength now ends up with these skill points dumped into a less valuable scan time skill.
The 'boost' in effect of the new strength skill is not more effective than before, even if it looks like it would (+25% < +30%). This is because of balancing the scan targets. These were balanced so the hard-to-find ones needed skill at 5 (25% bonus), the new scan targets will be balanced the same way, they will need the 50% scan strength bonus of a maxed skill. We have: +25% (old) = +50% (new). So it is a drop by 40% if your skill gets 'morphed' from lvl 5 to lvl 3.
The decision to invest skilltime into scan strength should not be touched.
I can see lots of reimbusement petitions where ppl ask to move their skillpoints from scan time to scan strength.
The suggestion in my first post solves the problem. |
Ausser
Cybertech Industrials Agency
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Posted - 2009.02.20 16:37:00 -
[265]
Originally by: Cassandra Elan Edited by: Cassandra Elan on 20/02/2009 04:18:15
Originally by: Ausser Is it really a good idea to swap the effect of the skills 'Astrometric Triangulation' and 'Signal Acquision'?
Players with maxed AT and low SA skills get nerfed by this decision.
The following solution looks better and is without pain for anybody:
- Change effect of SA to give strength bonus like AT, maybe little stronger than AT. Let AT be a prerequisite for SA. Then rename SA to something like 'Advanced Astrometric Triangulation'.
- Introduce a new skill with the old name 'Signal Acquision', make it rank 3 or so. Give it the scan duration bonus like it was on the old rank 8 skill.
This way nobody gets hurt and old players with both skills at 5 still have a little advantage to scan down the hard-to-find-stuff, at least for a while.
They didn't swap the ranks, just the names. Your SP totals are safe. Apparently you didn't notice the new skill that actually replaces triangulation - Astrometric Acquisition (rank 5)
Also, Triangulation got changed to 10% strength per level, level 3 is now more effective than level 5 was before.
You are right, the skillpoints are not lost - they get another name and effect. And that's the problem.
A player who decided to spend 1.28m skillpoints into valuable scan strength now ends up with these skill points dumped into a less valuable scan time skill.
The 'boost' in effect of the new strength skill is not more effective than before, even if it looks like it would (+25% < +30%). This is because of balancing the scan targets. These were balanced so the hard-to-find ones needed skill at 5 (25% bonus), the new scan targets will be balanced the same way, they will need the 50% scan strength bonus of a maxed skill. We have: +25% (old) = +50% (new). So it is a drop by 40% if your skill gets 'morphed' from lvl 5 to lvl 3.
The decision to invest skilltime into scan strength should not be touched.
I can see lots of reimbusement petitions where ppl ask to move their skillpoints from scan time to scan strength.
The suggestion in my first post solves the problem.
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SXYGeeK
Gallente Interstellar Planetary KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2009.02.20 19:47:00 -
[266]
do u realy need to use all the implied explitives? -We So SeXy |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.02.20 20:44:00 -
[267]
Mamolian, you, Tippia and co. could stop putting that damed advertising in your post?
It break the forum.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.02.20 20:44:00 -
[268]
Mamolian, you, Tippia and co. could stop putting that damed advertising in your post?
It break the forum.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.02.20 20:45:00 -
[269]
Mamolian, you, Tippia and co. could stop putting that damed advertising in your post?
It break the forum.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.02.20 20:46:00 -
[270]
Mamolian, you, Tippia and co. could stop putting that damed advertising in your post?
It break the forum.
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