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Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2009.02.20 12:42:00 -
[31]
Originally by: MotherMoon Edited by: MotherMoon on 20/02/2009 12:03:29
Quote: And yeah, Novafox probably doesn't have any formal training, but wtf? Why bash on him when he's trying at least
because... that's what we do in the industry?
it's complicated :P
oh oh ad I do try to help him out :) it's a balance. I thought nova fox just started critquing the new ships without... I don't know. I'm tired.
truce.
I think I mis-read then. My apologies. To me 'ripping on somebody' is just that- nonconstructive. But critiquing someone, even if it's negative (as in, that's really bad, and here's why) isn't nonconstructive. Not to me anyway. Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Death of Virtue is Recruiting
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2009.02.20 12:50:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Originally by: MotherMoon Edited by: MotherMoon on 20/02/2009 12:03:29
Quote: And yeah, Novafox probably doesn't have any formal training, but wtf? Why bash on him when he's trying at least
because... that's what we do in the industry?
it's complicated :P
oh oh ad I do try to help him out :) it's a balance. I thought nova fox just started critquing the new ships without... I don't know. I'm tired.
truce.
I think I mis-read then. My apologies. To me 'ripping on somebody' is just that- nonconstructive. But critiquing someone, even if it's negative (as in, that's really bad, and here's why) isn't nonconstructive. Not to me anyway.
haha sorry :P
oh and suck at writing I think one point I was trying to say...
your points on the ships line of action are valid your points on the fitting window seemed random (as in you can close the side window anyways, and moving slots around doesn't really change it, just the skin really) and I didn't agree with some others on the overall shape of minmatar ships.
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J'inko Unn
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Posted - 2009.02.20 15:29:00 -
[33]
Keep in mind it is his opinion
I do think the Legion is not the best, and I am a heavy Amarr advocate. I like the Loki the best, escp. with the 4 prolonging blades, reminds me of Zoids, and Gundam.
Nice scribble-english
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Freyya
GeoCorp. Paxton Federation
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Posted - 2009.02.20 15:51:00 -
[34]
Tbh i am quite fond of my proteus designs but i completely agree with you though. All the designs are quite similar in the very basic concept as in blocky, straightforward and easy going except for the legion. If i look at the proteus (only ship i have experience with on sisi) it doesn't really matter what kind of configuration you have since they basically look the same except for the nose and a mid section that's either fat or thin ( i like the fat bulky looks better personally ) if you look at details yeah sure they are quite different but overall it just is the same shapes. I would feel it more if each of the tier subsystems where actually designed according to a certain role and would indeed be fitted completely different in certain cases. As it is right now stuff is just easy to implement and straightforward but it would be much more interesting that if you fit a certain module instead of another one that section pops up on a slightly different place than the previous one with radically different looks. I'm just going to have to geuss they took a slightly easier road to ensure all the modules would look good in any configuration with as little effort as possible.
I would personally love to see the artists go out on a limb and create a design that's radical, aggressive and a true showcase of the T3 modular status. But mehh, what do i know i might be reasonable with a pencil and paper but have no experience whatsoever in any class of designing or textures or models
___________
NOW COLLECTING ISD AND CCP AUTOGRAPHS It'll be worth something someday. -Rauth
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Tyr Vaantau
Amarr Disorder.
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Posted - 2009.02.20 16:12:00 -
[35]
I agree with a lot of what you've said, Bellum. Although I notice you've yet to give your opinions on the other two LEGION designs, which personally I felt resembled a turkey (no I'm serious, the sides of it actually resemble stripped turkey wings) and a ship that's run head-long into a wall.
------
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PStuckey
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Posted - 2009.02.20 16:15:00 -
[36]
when i read the title to this topic i thought 'no way is this going to be full of win'
but i agree with most of what the OP has said.
in closing, this topic IS full of win.
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Azuse
Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2009.02.20 16:42:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Azuse on 20/02/2009 16:42:27 Mirroring both the fitting and skill comments (nice post [8)), but would like to add my disappointment that i cannot see at a glance how much cargo or drone space i have. The left side, despite being completely pointless, is not nearly user friendly or efficient use of space.
I could rant alot, but the simple truth is is does not take a good designer to spot a bad one, and this wasn't winning any awards for usability from day one. It's almost as if the design team(/designer?) became fixated on a single layout appearance and has been unwilling to make any compromises despite continued suggestions in the same areas -------------------------
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RustyPwnStar
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Posted - 2009.02.20 17:00:00 -
[38]
The fitting UI and skills comments are spot on.
The fitting screen is horrible atm, far to large and why not give the option between two? One with the hole in the middle and one without.
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Lasran Tekeal
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Posted - 2009.02.20 17:06:00 -
[39]
I quite like the minmatar one, the whole point is that their ships are meant to be evolving and it certainly looks that and it's nice to have something that finally looks like it has SOME technology in it. Yes minmatar's thing is speed sp yes it could look a bit more stream lined (really like the amarr one also) but it's also cool to have something that looks a bit more solid aswell.
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2009.02.20 17:33:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Tyr Vaantau I agree with a lot of what you've said, Bellum. Although I notice you've yet to give your opinions on the other two LEGION designs, which personally I felt resembled a turkey (no I'm serious, the sides of it actually resemble stripped turkey wings) and a ship that's run head-long into a wall.
Lol... yeah, I agree with ya. I left out the other two because the overall shape is really similar. I don't care much for the #1 nose, but the #2 nose isn't too bad, as well as the other modules in general (#1/2 for the other sections).
And while not quite as bad as the Prophecy, it is a little like a turkey hehe. Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Death of Virtue is Recruiting
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Adaera
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Posted - 2009.02.20 17:38:00 -
[41]
Merin; you're not alone >_< I took one look at the Tengu and all I thought was "... I want that. Now." Hell, it could have the slot layout of an Ibis and I'd still have one for camera spinning and general awesomeness.
I do think the OP makes some good points, particularly on the Gallente one. The Amarr one I love =/ Minmatar... well, reserving judgement on that until I can get a look at one in-game. Some configs look good, others I don't like so much. ___________________
I for one welcome our new bee overlords |
maCH'EttE
Perkone
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Posted - 2009.02.20 17:42:00 -
[42]
I can only really judge the Tengu, but reading over what you've written, I'd have to agree. The majority of the designs tend to be long tubes with a couple of other bits occasionally sticking out. The Tengu IMO looks like a slightly beefed up hauler.
Also, the designs tend to look over complicated. Take the front (electronic?) section of configuration 1. It could look cool, but with the silly go faster stripes at the bottom, and excess amounts of spikes and winglets, it just looks a bit daft. The middle section of configuration 1 (offence?), which has the wings could also look cool, but the extra tips on the end of them are just too much, IMO. Same for the tail section of configuration 2, which looks like it has landing pads under the thrusters...
I appreciate that it's a major design challenge, creating a peice of a model which has to 'click' into another 2 peices next door to create a complete item. I think the designers have done a fantastic job, but personally, I think some tweaking is required to finish them off.
Originally by: ISD Devil Hanzo I got pwned!
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Karrade Krise
Galatic P0RN Starz
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Posted - 2009.02.20 17:56:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus Ship fitting UI.
Um, yeah. A quick first pass: Fitting UI TOTALHELLDEATH
Basically, the UI just takes up too much room, and is cluttered with needless functionality while lacking some other much needed and basic functionality.
There is zero need for the individual expansion/drop downs for each section of stats. Move all of those stats to a centered location below the ship ring.
The entire left side for the modules and drones and all of that is supremely redundant. You have pretty much the exact functionality in your hangar window. Why repeat it? Furthermore, you can't sort by group or number of units, and the UI forces you to view items as smallish icons, reducing the number of items visible in the list at a given time, which is bad.
I think waaaay too much effort was expended on the ship fitting UI trying to make the interface circular and ring like. Instead of beating us over the head with the ring idea, why not just have some curved arcs of interface areas above and below the ship display area that will evoke a completed ring? That way you still have the same ring effect, but it's narrower and wastes less space. The UI needs to be much more dense and less spread out. Where is that dead horse .gif when I need it?
CCP. THIS is how you gotta do the Fitting screen. This or give me the option to use the old one. I don't want to use the ginormous fitting screen because I'm forced to.
Originally by: CCP Whisper Boo hoo. Cry some more.
Whisper is now officially my hero. |
something somethingdark
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Posted - 2009.02.20 17:59:00 -
[44]
allmost agree with your fitting screen but id rather have it like this well along the lines of that anyways (the red scribble is correction ... ignore that )
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Stitcher
Caldari ForgeTech Industries
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Posted - 2009.02.20 18:02:00 -
[45]
'nuff said, really. - Verin "Stitcher" Hakatain. |
ArmyOfMe
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.02.20 18:12:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus Feedback. I haz zome.
T3 ships in general:
Putting all the ships together in a 1/2/3/4/5 order, where 1,2,3,4,5 is defense, electronics, engineering, offense, propulsion is kind of a bummer. Why couldn't Gallente have offense in the second section of the model stack instead of position four? Or Minmatar have the propulsion section in position three?
All of the ships end up with a VERY linear/cylindrical shape. Very boring, very static. I made screenshots and scribbled notes on them. A picture is worth a thousand words.
LOKI
IMO the Loki needs to look fast and sleek, similar to a Vagabond, but it just ends up looking *really* clunky, in almost any configuration. No real definition of shape or form, really static silhouette from almost any angle. Bleh.
PROTEUS
I asked a few people (over a dozen) that don't play Eve what they thought about the Proteus, in it's various configurations. The response I got was fairly uniform, if not encouraging: "looks like a turd." Ayup, that pretty much sums it up.
Almost zero change in cross section throughout the length of the configs, really weak rear sections, and the nose sections... well, the nose makes/breaks the entire look of the ship IMO, and the Proteus has some of the weakest designs in that area IMO. The #2 module seems the strongest of the three. Yeah, I know we don't have art for the #4/5 modules yet, but w/e.
LEGION
HMMM. Guess which one they did LAST? Yeah, you got it, the Legion. And it looks great. I think it's pretty obvious that the art team cut it's collective teeth with the other three races and finally hit their stride with the Legion.
From what I've read in local on SISI the Legion is everyone's favorite (looks wise), and for good reason. It does everything right where the other three fail in all respects with regard to form, overall shape and silhouette etc.
It's aggressive, very consistent design wise, and all of the modules work well together, regardless of the combination, maintaining a solid look and feel to the ship.
Tengu: my training is borked on SISI ATM, so I didn't review it as thoroughly, but it's pretty much in the same boat as the Loki and Proteus.
Overall, I'd say that most people are really impressed with the Legion, but are lukewarm when it comes to the other three designs. Of course it's almost certainly too late to do anything about it at this point.
had really hoped the loki would look more in the line of vaga/cane/maelstrom
legion is pure ♥
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Tareen Kashaar
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.02.20 19:24:00 -
[47]
Very solid critique, +1. ____________
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Ephemeron
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.02.20 19:46:00 -
[48]
The new fitting screen reminds me of goatse, all you need is to add some graphic for the hands.. Bellum, get on that
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Pattern Clarc
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Posted - 2009.02.20 20:22:00 -
[49]
reasonably objective comments for the most part
bang on about the UI, and some aspects about how general design traits didn't quite make the conversion to t3 but on the outside, all we can really offer is constructive critisim, and free beer when the CCP nail it.
As for the proteus, I it's not the first, gallente ship that we didn't think was absolutely hot, (hi there Hyperion <3) so I have some hope that'll grow on me...
My only wish for future minmatar t3 are more vertical ships...
____
My Blog Is Awesome
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biggeruniverse
Gallente Little Fuzzy Creatures of Mayhem and Destruction DEFI4NT
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Posted - 2009.02.20 20:54:00 -
[50]
Edited by: biggeruniverse on 20/02/2009 20:54:48 +1
I took one look at the t3 ships and said "Huh. For once Gallente don't have the sexiest one in the class."
Proteus looks more looks some kind of ****** hauler...
EDIT: will I still fly it? Yes.
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Lasran Tekeal
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Posted - 2009.02.20 21:16:00 -
[51]
Originally by: biggeruniverse Edited by: biggeruniverse on 20/02/2009 20:54:48 +1
I took one look at the t3 ships and said "Huh. For once Gallente don't have the sexiest one in the class."
Proteus looks more looks some kind of ****** hauler...
EDIT: will I still fly it? Yes.
You tend to think the gallente ships look sexy...? Is there something you want to tell us?
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biggeruniverse
Gallente Little Fuzzy Creatures of Mayhem and Destruction DEFI4NT
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Posted - 2009.02.20 21:18:00 -
[52]
Edited by: biggeruniverse on 20/02/2009 21:18:48 Hawtness. Exception is the thorax which looks like something naughty.
I agree with the OP that there are things which could have been different. But then, that could be said of many of the ships in Eve. We learn to love them anyway.
-bu
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Draeca
Tharri and Co.
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Posted - 2009.02.20 23:46:00 -
[53]
I was checking out all kinds of combos with gallente t3 cruiser and one thing came into my mind. That ship just screams for a module with wings like those on babylon 5's whitestar.
Another pic
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Kamikaze CtrlQ
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Posted - 2009.02.20 23:55:00 -
[54]
Originally by: MotherMoon Edited by: MotherMoon on 20/02/2009 07:42:17 oh really, what games do you have your name on in the art credits?
I have 3.
and a BFA
what do you have? sounds liek you've never been to an art school. You can dish out criticism but you can't take it. Classic.
If you had any sort of experince, you would know that tearing apart other peoples art is the norm, and having your opinions of other peoples art torn apart.
It's your opinion, it's my opinion, get over yourself.
Quote: I wasn't critiquing the 'blockyness' or the 'smoothness' of any of the shapes.
my ass you weren't. you clearly stated MANY times "shapes shapes shapes"
CAOD is ---> that way.
Oh, yeah, art school... Because you can "learn" to be artistic.
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Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2009.02.21 00:40:00 -
[55]
ITT: Alot of non-artists Ripping either Mothermoon or Bellum respectively, not understanding this is how Mothermoon rolls >.> ______________________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
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Near Death
Caldari EBS9
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Posted - 2009.02.21 01:06:00 -
[56]
I totally agree on your critique of the Fitting screen. I had to move a module on top of the module slots to figure out which was high, med and low. Your suggestion on the other hand is perfect and would make me really happy if implemented.
I can't understand why they would ad a window to the left of the fitting screen with all the modules. They are in NO order what so ever, and It is actually far more difficult to locate your modules than just using your items window (Which I still find myself doing when on SiSi for testing).
Your suggestion is possibly the best solution for that particular feature of the game. I really think CCP should take notice of this and change the way they have done it.
You have good points, and I for the most part agree with you. I on the other hand can't 100% agree in your T3 art critique. You got some points regarding the Proteus and the Loki design, but I somehow still think that it's suiting for those races. It almost resembles the other ships.. Almost! But they do need to rethink it a little. It looks more like a BC than a Cruiser atm.
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Treelox
Amarr Seppuku Warriors
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Posted - 2009.02.21 01:18:00 -
[57]
I agree with you on your take on the new and "improved" ship fitting UI.
Sadly Dev's in the official dev blog thread on this topic have pretty told much told us to suck it up and deal with it. --
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Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.02.21 03:22:00 -
[58]
One thing: This is space, design should be focused on functionallity. As a desginer for space craft, I would make cubes of sphares :P. ITs not pretty, but meh :P.
I do like the minamtar T3, Caldari on is not as good I think, unfortuantyl. Minmatar really do inspire long burried romantic feelings for onld sci fi shows, and give that exploration flee a boost :).
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Dyaven
The Tuskers
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Posted - 2009.02.21 04:22:00 -
[59]
I actually like most of the Gallente designs, especially the one that looks like how the Hyperion should look. (IMO) At least I'll be able to fly a blaster cruiser without flying a giant dildo.
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Nova Fox
Gallente Novafox Shipyards
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Posted - 2009.02.21 05:49:00 -
[60]
I would hate for you to critizse my ships, well not really it probably do me alot of good than harm. =============
Pre Order your Sisters of Eve ship today
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