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Kulmid
Asshats and Alcoholics Turbo.
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Posted - 2009.02.20 20:43:00 -
[1]
That is all.
_________________
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Cyhawk
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Posted - 2009.02.20 20:55:00 -
[2]
No, only after 3 years or so are they useful. Which for most players is, yes, useless, since they wont be playing that long.
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Vindarten
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Posted - 2009.02.21 01:42:00 -
[3]
With the ability for a new character to maximize their training right from the beginning, it might take less than three years now for them to pay off, but they're still more for show and min/maxers than anyone else. Personally, I got my Adv. Learning Vs when I decided to quit EVE awhile back. I felt if I came back it'll help me catch up and if I didn't, then I didn't "waste" time I had no intention of using. Probably the only time I would have trained them so figured might as well. Don't regret it.
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Ms Delerium
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Posted - 2009.02.21 02:10:00 -
[4]
Whoever got them all at level V, will laugh at your statement.
That is all.
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Karrade Krise
Galatic P0RN Starz
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Posted - 2009.02.21 02:11:00 -
[5]
Your attempt to troll sucks.
Originally by: CCP Whisper Boo hoo. Cry some more.
Whisper is now officially my hero. |
Haniblecter Teg
F.R.E.E. Explorer Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.02.21 05:54:00 -
[6]
I think it be a nice selling point if your toon already has all the cap ship skills to 5 already. ----------------- Friends Forever |
Kyreax
Neuronix
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Posted - 2009.02.21 06:04:00 -
[7]
Trained 'em all up to V couple years ago.
One more year to payoff.
I'll still be here.
Well worth it. ---------------------------------------------------
It's a Templar, an Amarr Fighter used by Carriers. |
Juliette DuBois
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Posted - 2009.02.21 07:41:00 -
[8]
Has anyone calculated perception and intelligence Advanced level 5 payoff times with new maximized attributes?
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2009.02.21 08:49:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Kyreax Trained 'em all up to V couple years ago.
One more year to payoff.
I'll still be here.
Well worth it.
I should have done them, but I cba to do em now.
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Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2009.02.21 10:32:00 -
[10]
Not this rubbish again. I already proved adv5 have been very useful to me and given me months of SP I wouldn't have without adv5. So they are not useless. ____ Telltale sign of their presence is non-linear teleportation (www.eve-online.com/races/theodicy/Theodicy_All.pdf)
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RustyPwnStar
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Posted - 2009.02.21 14:30:00 -
[11]
In before Pottsey.
Fake edit: Damn
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V05
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Posted - 2009.02.21 15:37:00 -
[12]
That's like saying training any skill level V is useless, because you won't be using it.
If you are planning on doing all Caldari only and NEVER any Amarr, why train Amarr Cruisers?
If you plan on playing EVE longer than most people, Learning V is very very, let me say this again, VERY useful.
Only (Place any term you'd like here) would train skills knowing they won't use'm - that being Learning V or Amarr ships and only piloting Caldari ships.
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Hornymatt
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Posted - 2009.02.21 16:46:00 -
[13]
Works fine for me.
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Ms Delerium
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Posted - 2009.02.21 18:40:00 -
[14]
only ignorants do care about payoffs
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Carniflex
Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project
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Posted - 2009.02.21 21:49:00 -
[15]
Mine are worth it already. I'm old enough for that.
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Estel Arador
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.02.22 01:04:00 -
[16]
Mine would've been worth it next year
FREE! jumpclone service - 146 locations! |
Akor Flandres
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Posted - 2009.02.22 01:11:00 -
[17]
HAI TROLL
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Karrade Krise
Galatic P0RN Starz
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Posted - 2009.02.22 01:12:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Estel Arador Mine would've been worth it next year
Mine too...If I had trained them all to 5... I'm more of a short term thinker...
Originally by: CCP Whisper Boo hoo. Cry some more.
Whisper is now officially my hero. |
Jinx Barker
Caldari GFB Scientific
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Posted - 2009.02.22 02:17:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Cyhawk No, only after 3 years or so are they useful. Which for most players is, yes, useless, since they wont be playing that long.
OP = Fail. Proper answer is quoted.
In order to maximize the return on the Advance Learning Skills - one must be in game for little bit over 3 years. Then, and only then, will they start to pay off in small amounts.
::::Click The Signature For the Blog::::
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Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2009.02.22 09:15:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Pottsey on 22/02/2009 09:18:08 I don't agree you have to have Advance Learning Skills for 3 years before they are usefull or start to payoff. After 3 years I was months ahead in my skill plan which means I was ahead in my plan due to adv5 in well under 3 years. If I was ahead that much it means adv5 started to payoff in a lot less than 3 years for me. Then again I define payoff when I end up with more usefull skillpoints while others dont. Payoff is not a set 3 years it depends on your skill plan and how you vaule skills. Then again I define payoff as when you end up with more useful skill points you need due to adv5 over less then adv5 while most other people don't use that method. ____ Telltale sign of their presence is non-linear teleportation (www.eve-online.com/races/theodicy/Theodicy_All.pdf)
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Estel Arador
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.02.22 09:17:00 -
[21]
Good grief, can't we just stick to random one-liners and leave the discussion for what it is? It's not like it got somewhere the previous gazillion times.
FREE! jumpclone service - 146 locations! |
Osric Wuscfrea
SniggWaffe
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Posted - 2009.02.22 17:18:00 -
[22]
Maxxed and I'm 2/12 years old. So. do I wait 6 months now for the quicker learning/payback nonsense above, or LMAO at the OP for talking piffle... -- Rgds Mike
Dead-Fish, Deep Sea Daddies...
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Induc
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Posted - 2009.02.23 02:38:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Induc on 23/02/2009 02:44:01
Originally by: Pottsey Payoff is not a set 3 years it depends on your skill plan and how you vaule skills.
Yes, and if you count all skills but learnings skill as useful you won't have more "useful" SP's until after roughly 3 years. You will still have more SP if you look at the character profile, but that's because you have a lot of it in learning.
I've got 4/4 atm, and I don't plan on getting them to 5 any time soon which will take me around 100 days.
It's not the 3 years to pay off that scares me, it's the third of a year waiting until I can start training something "useful" that really puts me off.
It's just a game, not a second job, and there is no fun "planning" to have fun in 3 years.
The problem is that everyone who supports maxing learning thinks that they've proven it is if you're still playing when they start to pay off.
I don't care if I'm still around here in 3 years and got 30m SP instead of 35m, it's no big deal.
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Vindarten
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Posted - 2009.02.23 03:43:00 -
[24]
Ya know, the most worthless skill is Salvage Drone Op.
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Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2009.02.23 07:22:00 -
[25]
Induc said "Yes, and if you count all skills but learnings skill as useful you won't have more "useful" SP's until after roughly 3 years. You will still have more SP if you look at the character profile, but that's because you have a lot of it in learning." No if I count all but learning skills as useful I still end up with more overall useful skills. Not all skills are useful and there are different values of useful based on what you do. For some pilots having adv5 can give them more useful skill points then if they didn't have adv5. If/when adv5 gives you more useful skill points that you need over adv 4 or less then adv5 in my mind has paid off. In some cases adv5 gives more useful skill points that a pilot needs in well under 3 years.
Induc said "It's not the 3 years to pay off that scares me, it's the third of a year waiting until I can start training something "useful" that really puts me off." I can understand that but in my case I didn't have to wait 3 years. By 3 years I was months ahead in useful skills I could not have with adv4. That to me was very worth it. By year 1 I had skills I couldn't have with adv4 or less. But not everyone falls into my situation. After 3 years my skill plan is so far ahead I am well past payoff and I didnt have to wait 3 years to get fun from new extra skills adv5 gave me. I gained extra skills I could not have without adv5 by year 1. But as I said before not everyone falls into my situation.
____ Telltale sign of their presence is non-linear teleportation (www.eve-online.com/races/theodicy/Theodicy_All.pdf)
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Ralitge boyter
Minmatar BrightSpark Alliance
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Posted - 2009.02.23 12:46:00 -
[26]
I have to agree with Pottsey, I had my main not really train learning skills for about a year or so into the game (back in early 2005). Now my alt started at the end of '06 trained them to start with. Even as little as a year into the game my ALT was so much further ahead then my main was at that time that I can honnestly say the skill points invested in learning paid off. Of course for her to be so much more ahead that the skill points invested in learning are smaller then the amount of skill points she is a head will take a little more then just a year, but still the difference between the two characters is so great I would advise every new player to make use of the skill queue to ensur that when ever you are done learning what ever skill you where learning you continue with the adv. learning skills to level 5. It might take you a little longer to learn but you are certain you never loose a second of tarining time and you are certain to see a large benefit from these extra attribute points.
For an alt that you plan to stick around for a long time, just train the learning skills first and ignore the alt till they are done, sure it hurts the wallet but then again the alt will be so much faster in the learning of new skills (get +4/5 implants before doing the adv. learning level 5 skills though).
------------------------------------------- Should you disagree with me, well I guess that is because I disagree with you. If you have a problem with that please feel free not to tell me. |
Vikura
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.02.23 15:38:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Pottsey Edited by: Pottsey on 22/02/2009 09:18:08 I don't agree you have to have Advance Learning Skills for 3 years before they are usefull or start to payoff. After 3 years I was months ahead in my skill plan which means I was ahead in my plan due to adv5 in well under 3 years. If I was ahead that much it means adv5 started to payoff in a lot less than 3 years for me. Then again I define payoff when I end up with more usefull skillpoints while others dont. Payoff is not a set 3 years it depends on your skill plan and how you vaule skills. Then again I define payoff as when you end up with more useful skill points you need due to adv5 over less then adv5 while most other people don't use that method.
Look at me, look at me! I'm Pottsey and i have lvl 5 advanced pixels!
No really, it's beyond my understanding how ego/epeen addicted someone have to be to post that crap on every advanced learning releated topic.
You know the information you give is useless! Because you don't tell the whole story, the fact that your situation is special.
Case A) The normal case of most of the players in Eve. A choose between a advanced learnings to L5 and existing skill plan Y. In this case the skill plan NEED to be well over 3 years before it's worth of even to get primary and secondary to L5.
So in other words, if you're still new and have your doubts that you'll be here after 3 years, it's most likely better to ignore the L5 advanced stuff and just go for the stuff you like, because you'll get it faster.
Case B) This is your special case, Pottsey. You have a choise of advanced learnings to L5 or train nothing (or just skills you have no use for). In this case, yes it's in my opinion no-brainer to go for L5 advanced learnings untill you have new plan.
You're just misleading people by not telling actually why the skills have "paid off" for you before the 3 year mark.
And also one of the biggest ego/e-peen seekers i've seen in any other game.
/end of rant.
Ps. sorry for typos.
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Vikura
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.02.23 15:46:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Ralitge boyter I have to agree with Pottsey, I had my main not really train learning skills for about a year or so into the game (back in early 2005). Now my alt started at the end of '06 trained them to start with. Even as little as a year into the game my ALT was so much further ahead then my main was at that time that I can honnestly say the skill points invested in learning paid off. Of course for her to be so much more ahead that the skill points invested in learning are smaller then the amount of skill points she is a head will take a little more then just a year, but still the difference between the two characters is so great I would advise every new player to make use of the skill queue to ensur that when ever you are done learning what ever skill you where learning you continue with the adv. learning skills to level 5. It might take you a little longer to learn but you are certain you never loose a second of tarining time and you are certain to see a large benefit from these extra attribute points.
For an alt that you plan to stick around for a long time, just train the learning skills first and ignore the alt till they are done, sure it hurts the wallet but then again the alt will be so much faster in the learning of new skills (get +4/5 implants before doing the adv. learning level 5 skills though).
It have been proven many times in these kind of topics by maths (maths don't lie, people do) that it's over 3 years for primary+secondary advanced learnings L5 to pay off.
What you're most likely doing is, that you compare it like: Skill plan with advanced L4 vs. Skill plan with advanced L5
While you should do it more like: Skill plan with advanced L4 vs. skill plan + advanced to L5
And compare the total times of them.
Also you say that you had trained next to no learning skills on your old character, well... the plan doesn't have to be even long for basic to L4 and advanced to L2-4 to make things go faster, which i would bet my money on to be the your case.
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V05
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Posted - 2009.02.23 15:50:00 -
[29]
I just wanted to point out something. A little history; Me and a friend have been playing since about the same time. I do missions, as does he.
During times when we don't know what to train, I trained Advance learning; he'd train industry. During missions where you have to mine, I'd say no, and do more kill missions; he'd do'm. (Doesn't relate to advance learning, but just wait). Now my attributes are higher than his, some by 2, because if setup correctly, training 1 point into advanced learning (Focus V for me) will give you a second point because of the "Learning" skill.
Now that both of us are going into PVP field, I can train skills faster than him, and yes...he has more industry skills than me...but w/ever. I make more isk doing missions than mining anyways.
I wouldn't say they are great to learn (Advance V) but they are safe to learn...if you know what you're doing.
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Vikura
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.02.23 15:56:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Pottsey
I can understand that but in my case I didn't have to wait 3 years. By 3 years I was months ahead in useful skills I could not have with adv4. That to me was very worth it.
Again you're misleading people here. You don't tell them that you didn't have any other plans at the time you trained advanced to L5.
And why you keep saying that? Whoah, you got more skill points with 1 extra primary and secondary attribute than without them? Ofcourse you did.
But IF (just if, since it's not how it was for you back then) you had your skill plan back at the time you started training your first advanced to L5. You would be behind in that plan with L5 skills compared to the L4 advanced. After only 3 years that is.
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