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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 19 post(s) |
Great Artista
Caldari Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2009.04.29 02:01:00 -
[61]
Edited by: Great Artista on 29/04/2009 02:02:19 Changing the rocket bonus on vengeance to 10% (totaling to effective 6 launchers) and malediction to 15% (totaling to effective 5.25 launchers) per level, accompanied by making the rockets able to hit ABing frigates WITHOUT WEB ASSISTANCE for full damage should do it. MWD assisted frigs would still go faster than the rockets, but getting caught by scrambler would be devastating.
Seems balanced, no? _______
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Deva Blackfire
D00M.
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Posted - 2009.04.29 03:02:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Great Artista Edited by: Great Artista on 29/04/2009 02:02:19 Changing the rocket bonus on vengeance to 10% (totaling to effective 6 launchers) and malediction to 15% (totaling to effective 5.25 launchers) per level, accompanied by making the rockets able to hit ABing frigates WITHOUT WEB ASSISTANCE for full damage should do it. MWD assisted frigs would still go faster than the rockets, but getting caught by scrambler would be devastating.
Seems balanced, no?
Heretic, flycatcher, hawk, rocket crow, eris (partially) cant agree with above. you forgot about em. But yeh hitting frigs for full damage (even non-AB ceptors) would be good start.
And to the guy from previous page: all missiles are immune to defenders if fired from short range at target. I think its about 2-3 seconds flight time (times velocity = range) that is enough to evade defenders. So 10km/s heavy missile from cerb will evade defender if fired from 20-30km (cant check now but a while ago i could evade defenders even from 40km ;p but those were NPC ones).
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Great Artista
Caldari Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2009.04.29 03:13:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Heretic, flycatcher, hawk, rocket crow, eris (partially) cant agree with above. you forgot about em.
Erm... "Whoops".
But come to think of it, Hawk and Crow get a nifty range bonus, thus one trades damage for range with those ships. Which goes well with the current game mechanics. Up close with the amarr, or stay in range with caldari, fills the niche, aye?
For interdictors, I couldn't say much more than eft-theorycraft as I have no experience of them whatsoever, maybe someone else could contribute on those...? _______
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Mohenna
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Posted - 2009.04.29 11:35:00 -
[64]
Not really, the caldari also get the same dps bonus, more or less, but only on kinetic, so amarr are free to chose damage, while caldari are free to chose range in thoery while fitting. Of course the std missile launcher hawk is even worse a lolfit than the rocket one. So no, I'd rather fix rockets than change the boats.
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Yankunytjatjara
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Posted - 2009.04.30 14:56:00 -
[65]
OK now that the naglfar is not naglfail anymore please make the rockets not LOLrockets anymore!!
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Marquis Zenas
m3 Corp BlackWater.
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Posted - 2009.04.30 16:05:00 -
[66]
Agreed, rockets need an adjust. I want my Vengeance to be more than something to spin in station when I'm bored! --------------------------
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Mohenna
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Posted - 2009.05.19 15:02:00 -
[67]
The naglfail fix made it obvious that the devs consider the explosion speed of citadel torpedoes wrong at least. I would like to hope that this means they'll propagate a buff to explosion speed down to all the unguided missiles, buffing rockets (a weapon intended for drones among other things) to serious levels.
A buff to damage is also asked for a great majority.
This fix is easier than blasters as nobody is against it. Fix this before blasters!
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Ulstan
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Posted - 2009.05.19 15:37:00 -
[68]
Edited by: Ulstan on 19/05/2009 15:38:53 I think Rockets are the most broken weapon system in the game, frankly. It fails spectacularly as being an effective anti-frigate system. Sure it may have some minor issues vs cruisers, but I'd rather see the issues vs frigates addressed - and that would almost certainly take care of any cruiser issues as well.
They need to do more damage, travel faster, and have a better explosion velocity.
The Malediction and Vengeance look awesome and have awesome names. It's too bad when fit with their intended weapon system they do atrociously bad DPS.
But I don't want to see special bonuses only to malediction and vengeance...it's the rocket system itself that is broken and should be addressed. |
Midday Toker
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Posted - 2009.05.19 15:57:00 -
[69]
I havent really seen anyone comment on the T2 Rocket Ammo. Its totally ****ed. They are completely worthless. Infact we got a few of the rocket ammo BPO's during the T2 lotto, We built 100k units of each. We still have like 40k of each of them still. And thats years after they were built. Hell we cant give these things away.
Please reaxmine the whole lot. Rockets in general, And their t2 Ammo varients.
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Marquis Zenas
m3 Corp Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2009.05.19 16:21:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Midday Toker I havent really seen anyone comment on the T2 Rocket Ammo. Its totally ****ed. They are completely worthless. Infact we got a few of the rocket ammo BPO's during the T2 lotto, We built 100k units of each. We still have like 40k of each of them still. And thats years after they were built. Hell we cant give these things away.
Please reaxmine the whole lot. Rockets in general, And their t2 Ammo varients.
Completely agree on the state of T2 rocket ammo - they act as stealth nerfs to the frigates which traditionally are supposed to use them. They either give a sig radius penalty which increase a frigates signiature radius. Or alternatively slowing it down. If you fit a full rack of launchers on a vengeance, load T2 ammo and then try to afterburn, marvel at the 200 m/s speed (I exaggerate but you probably get the idea)!
Pathetic
-------------------------- Sigless |
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Kadesh Priestess
Scalding Chill
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Posted - 2009.05.19 16:29:00 -
[71]
Yet another problem of t2 rockets (and missiles) that each bay loaded with t2 ammo has cumulative penalty. If t2 turret ammo primarily applies tracking penalty to current turret only, but each javelin rocket reduces speed of its carrier.
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Mohenna
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Posted - 2009.05.20 07:38:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Kadesh Priestess Yet another problem of t2 rockets (and missiles) that each bay loaded with t2 ammo has cumulative penalty.
OMG is it not even stacking penalized?!?
Originally by: Midday Toker Please reaxmine the whole lot. Rockets in general, And their t2 Ammo varients.
Ditto
Originally by: Ulstan But I don't want to see special bonuses only to malediction and vengeance...it's the rocket system itself that is broken and should be addressed.
Ditto!
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Great Artista
Caldari Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2009.05.20 13:35:00 -
[73]
Edited by: Great Artista on 20/05/2009 13:38:37 Page 2? I don't think so.
Rockets also need the ridiculously low capasity increased. 50-60 rockets per clip minimum, thanks.
Rocket specced ships need a REAL damage bonus, because in frig size, they can't fit BCU like the caldari variants, being armortankers and all. 15% dmg bonus per level for malediction and 10% to vengeance, IN ADDITION TO THE EXPLOSION SPEED/RADIUS FIX.
Edit: Whoops, seems it echoes here. Its for a good cause anyway. ____ Rockets need a boost. CCP status: [_] Told. [x] Not told.
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Haral Reimo
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Posted - 2009.05.20 13:39:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Kadesh Priestess Yet another problem of t2 rockets (and missiles) that each bay loaded with t2 ammo has cumulative penalty. If t2 turret ammo primarily applies tracking penalty to current turret only, but each javelin rocket reduces speed of its carrier.
T2 laser crystals do this too. Gleam for example has a 10% penalty to shield HP, so a full rack of 8 lowers HP by 57%
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Kadesh Priestess
Scalding Chill
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Posted - 2009.05.20 21:18:00 -
[75]
Edited by: Kadesh Priestess on 20/05/2009 21:23:45
Originally by: Mohenna
Originally by: Kadesh Priestess Yet another problem of t2 rockets (and missiles) that each bay loaded with t2 ammo has cumulative penalty.
OMG is it not even stacking penalized?!?
Just checked in EFT - seems so. 3 launchers drop speed to 79.14% of original (which equals to 0.925^3 w/o any stacking penalty applied).
Originally by: Haral Reimo
Originally by: Kadesh Priestess Yet another problem of t2 rockets (and missiles) that each bay loaded with t2 ammo has cumulative penalty. If t2 turret ammo primarily applies tracking penalty to current turret only, but each javelin rocket reduces speed of its carrier.
T2 laser crystals do this too. Gleam for example has a 10% penalty to shield HP, so a full rack of 8 lowers HP by 57%
I kept this example in mind, but the only ships that are affected by this penalty are sansha ships (and, probably, zealot with damage/tracking/speed mods and shield tank). In other words, gleams apply penalty to the shield which is rarely used on laser ships. Anyway, gleams suck and nobody uses them (that's story for another whine thread), as AN multifreq crystals are much better.
Completely other thing is rockets - they're designed for small, fast and agile ships. Any penalty to speed, agility or signature radius nearly renders such ammunition useless.
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Mohenna
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Posted - 2009.05.26 17:21:00 -
[76]
A new thread regarding rockets has delivered only bickering. I would rather bump this then ;) Hopefully this sadly underpowereded weapon system will be looked after before blasters (which are fine btw)
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Great Artista
Caldari Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2009.05.26 17:56:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Mohenna A new thread regarding rockets has delivered only bickering. I would rather bump this then ;) Hopefully this sadly underpowereded weapon system will be looked after before blasters (which are fine btw)
Any and all discussion is good imo. ____ Rockets need a boost. CCP status: [_] Told. [x] Not told.
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Mohenna
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Posted - 2009.05.26 19:46:00 -
[78]
While I agree, I do believe that the main problem is explosion speed. The rest is less obvious and open to a lot of debate.
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Allen Ramses
Caldari Typo Corp
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Posted - 2009.05.26 19:50:00 -
[79]
I would argue the main problem is missile velocity, followed very closely by explosion velocity. ____________________ CCP: Catering to the cowards of a cold, harsh universe since November, 2006. |
Mohenna
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Posted - 2009.05.27 09:14:00 -
[80]
Yes, they are both aspects of the same problem, that became apparent after the web nerf.
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2009.05.27 10:09:00 -
[81]
Base damage is tragically low as well. The Kestrel gets nice kinetic EFT DPS, but only because it has a 50% damage bonus.
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Deva Blackfire
D00M.
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Posted - 2009.05.27 11:41:00 -
[82]
and 4 launchers... (malediction problem in this case)
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Mohenna
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Posted - 2009.05.28 08:42:00 -
[83]
Well, we all know how the devs do the small steps with balance tweaking. I would rather see a threadnought asking for a fix to explosion/flight speed, and hope in a bigger tweak than expected, than see the threads go down the sink of derailing and see nothing at all...
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Admiral IceBlock
Caldari Northern Intelligence
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Posted - 2009.05.28 09:27:00 -
[84]
This.
Quote: - their DPS sucks: rocket launcher WITH 25% damage bonus (malediction, vengeance etc) deals as much damage as unbonused 200mm autocannon while its fitting is MUCH worse
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Mohenna
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Posted - 2009.05.29 09:26:00 -
[85]
Well, it seems that everybody agrees. Our only hope is to keep this thread on the first page until it's noted. Hopefully before the blasters (that are fine btw )
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Yankunytjatjara
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Posted - 2009.05.30 09:51:00 -
[86]
Edited by: Yankunytjatjara on 30/05/2009 09:52:19 One question is important imho, and I can't see clear answer in this thread.
Would you rather see the rockets as
- fleet weapons (great increase in dps, no increase in explosion speed, need a pal to web them)
- solo weapons (low dps, high increase in explosion speed)
I think that it's important to avoid a hybrid thing, that wouldn't be good in either scenario. I vouch for a change in one direction, not both, and as this game seeks balance, you can see that changing only in one direction has room for the biggest improvement.
In my opinion, rockets should be used with two webs against average ABing frigates and one web against average ABing cruisers. They should be fleet weapons in this sense. I ask a big raise in dps, and a little tweaking in explosion speed to take afterburners into account.
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Deva Blackfire
D00M.
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Posted - 2009.05.30 11:47:00 -
[87]
Umm... are blasters fleet weapons? Autocannos? Lasers? Or maybe standard missiles? Or heavies? Heck, even HAMs.
All those systems work well with point(normal, not scram)+web on target. Rockets dont work well even when you web another frig.
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Great Artista
Caldari Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2009.05.30 17:50:00 -
[88]
Nice devblog, caldari space sure lacks agents. Good thing problems aren't being ignored. ____ Rockets need a boost. CCP status: [_] Told. [x] Not told.
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Lee Dalton
Beyond Suppression
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Posted - 2009.05.30 17:55:00 -
[89]
Bump for an important issue. *** You're only as good as your last fight. |
Daria Hahn
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Posted - 2009.06.01 17:19:00 -
[90]
Page 2? Nu-uh. :3
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