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Sillas Cov
22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit
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Posted - 2009.02.23 17:32:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Sillas Cov on 23/02/2009 17:42:33 Edited by: Sillas Cov on 23/02/2009 17:38:26 Faction war is failing in its ability to provide enough game mechanics to draw more new pilots into it, and hold existing pilots from leaving.
Using an ongoing Military action as a pretext for combat is a natural, brilliant in fact.
Given Eve's pvp heavy game environment, and the initial Faction warfare sand box offering, we have had a good run with Fighting, plexing and taking systems in the last 8 months, but......
But now what?
I'm in a great Fac war corp, have made solid friends and fly fun ships in good small gang fights.
But I am frustrated by Cpp's lack of game mechanics that allow for a compelling transition into a depth of increasingly challenging strategic and tactical situations.
I'm heading into completing the last and Highest rank in the Caldari Militia, but.... so what??
Consider the significance of the following Sand Box Additions to Factional warfare:
- SOLID Bounties auto placed upon pilots as they rack up enemy war target kills, that are only collectible by enemy militia pilots.
- Totally new Militia Pvp Class ships and modules only issued to ranking officers.
- Add a Hulk sized support ships that acts as a mobile ship hangar and repair base. Allow that it can hold 3 cruisers and 5 frigates, and that it is Cov Op cloakable and cheap enough to actually consider using and skill accessible to pre carrier lvl pilots.
- Add a Carrier sized version of the above logistics ship.
- Award Command points for rank advancement and or plexs taken, and systems captured, such that can be used to:
* accumulate LP to replace faction ammo ect at a decent rate. *Allow command points to be used to warp a fleet into plex fights at ranges other than zero. * Use command points to call or increase the likelihood of a plex spawn in a system. * Use command points to increase one's sec status to counter the loss due to fighting Pirates in Low sec. * Allow the points to accumulate over time the rate at which is in proportion to rank. * Allow CPs to be used to direct the fire of friendly rats in a plex.
Further Ideas include:
Special mobile strategic militia jump gates that can only be used by the faction owning them. The exaction location of which is secret, even to all lower ranking pilots. The use of which uses a significant amount of Command points.
Locations of these gates can be found with probes by the enemy, once the Ranking player calls the gate into play and will appear on the overview when warped to as a normal plex.
Fleet command bonuses to level 5 automatically granted to pilots as they increase the ranks.
Make all enemy high sec stations charge a 1 mil docking fee to enemy pilots, with the fee increasing with the higher the sec status of the system.
Make all areas within a plex and on grid with a plex, full military war zones and thus not negatively hit the Fac War pilot's sec status for initiating attacks upon Piwates.
Award all militia pilots within system the victory points for closing a plex as a successful op involves all the pilots in the system as this is the reality of dynamic plex warfare, (re enforcements ect).
Make the Rats in the major Plexs very smart and hard to crack, thus requiring a solid team effort.
Give the Rats bounties such that a player can replace T1 ships at a decent rate. Forget the Tags as this game can do better than have us hunt and collect endlessly... this is mindless and adds nothing
Provide a better 2D Grand strategic star map of the major zones of conflict, such that ranking officers can share Intel, planing and resource allocation. Make these Maps channels that are invite only, for security ect similar to the chat Intel channels.
Now honestly, are any of these things beyond CPP's game design ability?
Imagine if you will, the sheer depth of game play that these changes would open up to Factional warfare ??
Ideas??
CPP, for the love of God, don't abandon Fac War.
Sillas
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Mitch Taylor
Dark-Rising
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Posted - 2009.02.23 17:41:00 -
[2]
They say genius is next to insanity, I have to agree.
Mitch
The Dark is Rising... |
Lord Zekk
Caldari 22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit
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Posted - 2009.02.23 18:38:00 -
[3]
Interesting post Silas. I don't know too much about the balance of shiptypes so I'm not going to comment about the additions you have suggested.
I would like to see some reward for taking and defending plexes even if VP are awarded in the form of LP. It's not much but it is worth something and isn't enough to make plexing profitable to the extent that players consider it an alternative to missioning. However, my personal feelings aside when pilots in 0.0 kill enemy targets they receive no bounty or reward for the fighting for their space and have to make isk to support their war effort the same way we do. So while I would personally like there to be some reward, it seems as though it is in line with the rest of Pvp in terms of there being no reward apart from the joy of victory.
I do like the idea of there being some penalty for using stations in enemy space. Someone had once suggested not being able to dock in lowsec stations that are in space that is occupied by the enemy. Your idea of docking fees is another good way of making occupancy more meaningful and strategically advantageous.
The rats in Majors are pretty tough and provide a significant advantage to defenders so I believe that this mechanic is fine the way it is.
Most of the pirates that enter plexes are -5.0 or worse so that is not a real issue. However, not all are and *sigh* I am not allowed in some parts of high sec as a result of that but such is the price of collateral damage. However making plexes a warzone will allow pies to freely engage Militia members without worrying about GCC. However only Militia members not receiving GCC for attacking neutrals might be more fair, but it seems like this is a mechanism that could be abused.
Some sort of command Bonus or any other tangible bonus for advancing in Rank, especially reaching the highest rank sounds interesting. It takes a long time to get there and I haven't as yet but it would be nice to have some kind of reward for getting there apart from JC access which comes with the standings.
There are a lot of good points you have covered and many more that we aren't aware of, but I hope the community constantly demands that CCP pay more attention to FW (or let us know if they already are) as it a great part of the game that could use some tweaking and a bit more love from CCP.
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Yakia TovilToba
Halliburton Inc.
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Posted - 2009.02.24 08:55:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Yakia TovilToba on 24/02/2009 08:56:36
Unfortunately CCP lost any interest for FW. There are no plans to add anything, except one thing: new players that buy the Eve box will get access to faction warfare without the 0.5 faction standing restriction. This shows what CCP wants FW to be a newb-zone: a noobcorp substitute, a place where people are learning their first steps in Eve before entering the oh-so-praised 0.0 alliances. In future you won't see intel on enemy movements in militia channel or reports on vulnerable systems, but questions like "how can a mount a torpedo launcher on my atron ?".
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Tzar'rim
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Posted - 2009.02.24 09:14:00 -
[5]
In an MMO as competitive and PVP focussed as EVE the goal should be PVP itself, not some arbitratry 'rewards' you picked up from other MMO's. If you find FW to be without real goals then perhaps you should find yourself some PLAYERdriven wars and goals, ie; 0.0
Self-proclaimed idiot
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Nur AlHuda
Amarr Callide Vulpis
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Posted - 2009.02.24 11:10:00 -
[6]
The Factional warfare realy should be changed. I agree on most of the points except the capital logistic support. The lowsec combat is laggy enough so no way. Use normal logistic ships. Or spider tanks.
My personal points are that no enemies should dock at enemy highsec or lowsec bases. I mean comoon i get killed dock at tribal liberation base and buy a ship and full setup? WTF? Not mentioning when i jump to highsec in minmatar space most of the faction navy is just looking at me till i warp. Seriously guys....
Second point is to change the rewards and ranks. Ranks should give some combat bonuses in fleet at least 1-2%. The npc drops should be much better. Most of the rats drop nothink or just pure t1 crap.
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Nexus Kinnon
Genos Occidere
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Posted - 2009.02.24 11:37:00 -
[7]
Basing stuff like this off ranks is stupid. Having a high rank doesn't mean that you're good at PvP... Usually it means you are far from.
Originally by: Sol'Kanar I am the spermicidal cream to your semen of lies.
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EVIL SYNNs
Wrath of Fenris
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Posted - 2009.02.24 11:41:00 -
[8]
Sorry gents but I have to disagree, or maybe not disagree but just show how the "SANDBOX" works.
Say I am a 0.0 alliance in NPC Venal. What benefit from CCP do I get over those who are just passing by for the first time. Answer NONE
Say I am a long time miner in Empire. What benefit from CCP do I get over those who just want to mine for a bit. Answer NONE
Say I am a pirate in Low Sec, What benefit from CCP do I get over those who want to go blinky for the first time, answer NONE.
Say I am a Factional Warfare Person since day 1 (which I am btw), What benefit from CCP do I get over those who have just joined, answer NONE.
Being a Sandbox = you get no benefit (FROM CCP I hasten to add) if you've done it 1 day or 100 days. Plexes are there for 1 reason ... to get PEW PEW. If you think there should be a reward to doing the plexes.. THATS IT! pew pew... lots of it.
I would LOVE rewards for doing plexes (I am like 2nd top rank in the Gallente, much to the abuse of my corp members) but thats not the way CCP do things. They make it a level field for everyone, always have always will, the difference is in YOUR SKILL! thats what a sandbox is about, anyone can fight everyone else the only difference is the skills you trained, the ship you've picked and your actual RL skill of flying.
To get more people interested in FW is sort the lag (Which CCP are trying to do), make it easier to kill ships in plexes (JAMMING CALDARI NPC's are BAD mkay?) and have a fun corp to work with.
imho
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Joe Public
The Dirty Rotten Scoundrels
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Posted - 2009.02.24 13:10:00 -
[9]
I have to agree with SYNNs here. Fix the lag, clean up the bugs, bring in more players, FW fixes itself after that.
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Tamahra
Garoun Investment Bank
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Posted - 2009.02.24 14:37:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Sillas Cov
- SOLID Bounties auto placed upon pilots as they rack up enemy war target kills, that are only collectible by enemy militia pilots.
To easily exploitable, as with every bounty system (get killed by friends and share bounty)
- Totally new Militia Pvp Class ships and modules only issued to ranking officers.
again to easily exploitable, or at least pretty complicated to implement, and this could turn into a waste of ressources on CCPs side, since those ships would only be accessible to a fraction of the players
- Add a Carrier sized version of the above logistics ship.
with the ship sizes continually going up, i agree they should allow carriers for empire space, and add lvl V missions to empire, where you can enter with a carrier
- Award Command points for rank advancement and or plexs taken, and systems captured, such that can be used to:
* accumulate LP to replace faction ammo ect at a decent rate. * Use command points to call or increase the likelihood of a plex spawn in a system. * Use command points to increase one's sec status to counter the loss due to fighting Pirates in Low sec. * Allow the points to accumulate over time the rate at which is in proportion to rank. * Allow CPs to be used to direct the fire of friendly rats in a plex.
nice idea
Make all enemy high sec stations charge a 1 mil docking fee to enemy pilots, with the fee increasing with the higher the sec status of the system.
bad idea, even less people would join faction war
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Furious Foot
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Posted - 2009.02.24 14:38:00 -
[11]
Tbh I don't think that FW doesn't need such a lot of additions - I'm in it since day 1 and still enjoy it (although in the Minmatar/Amarr theatre).
- lag needs to be fixed.
- Occupancy should mean something: - Militia stations should be a generic type - once the sov of a system changes, only pilots of the occupying militia are allowed to dock (and yes - no neuts as well - that's what other NPC corp stations are for.). In those militia stations, militia pilots get cheaper services and have accesss to a decent LP store that has much better prices then missiongrinder LP stores. - The current mechanics of being able to dock up on a hostile militia station in hostile occupied space to get safe from said militias pilots and repair+refit your ship to go out and kill them again is sickeningly nonsensical. - Plexing and killing hostile militia pilots should add LP.
Some good ideas there, but - Imho, there's no need for special ships - maybe some milita issue T1 frig that is fairly cheap or so... - That hulk based logistic ship imho is just meh - Last time I checked a carrier sized version of a logistic ship was called ...*drumroll*... a carrier - All that command point bonusses like using them for plex appearance rates, warp in ranges and whatnot are highly artificial, make no sense in regards to game mechanics, don't fit Eve and are a horrible idea, imho.
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Nur AlHuda
Amarr Callide Vulpis
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Posted - 2009.02.24 14:53:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Nur AlHuda on 24/02/2009 14:55:49 Synn you get rewards in terms of money which is not balanced. Faction warfare can attract only people who want to pew pew, but for general eve public it wlll remain distant.
Just look at size of the militia members online and average participation in fleet operations. More then 50% never participate couse they consider it not important for them and they are only in militia couse they corp buddies are there. So it then it looks like only one corp would run operations even when in the fleet are people maybe from 10 different corporations.
Also people dont do nearly plexing at all or only as their corp ops. Average combat ops ends at the gate and thats all. Rarely in complex couse of the rats.
Thats the difference in 0.0 you get bonuses from soveregnity and you cna see direct impact on your alliance. In missions in empire you have the loot but in factional warfare your actions doesnt make difference and its just for pvp.
So basicaly any pvp or pirate corp can offer the same if not more then the actual factional warfare.
And factional warfare wil stay as introduction to newbies to pvp soemthink like those 10 training missions in academy when you make them you never come back.
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Joe Public
The Dirty Rotten Scoundrels
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Posted - 2009.02.24 15:23:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Nur AlHuda Faction warfare can attract only people who want to pew pew, but for general eve public it wlll remain distant.
Eh? It's a PvP arena, why would you even try to attract people other than those that want to pew pew? Carebear land is thataway ->
Now in 0.0 it's a different matter as you have a use for carebears there.
Originally by: Nur AlHuda Just look at size of the militia members online and average participation in fleet operations. More then 50% never participate couse they consider it not important for them and they are only in militia couse they corp buddies are there. So it then it looks like only one corp would run operations even when in the fleet are people maybe from 10 different corporations.
I think it's unfair and inaccurate to use the general militia and the lower quality corps involved in FW to criticise the whole of FW. Serious PvP corps in FW are 100% behind FW and have 100% attendance to fleets, like mine. There will always be a lot of chaff pilots and half-involved corps in FW and I would not want it to be any different, but there are also plenty of pilots and corps that set the bar much higher.
Originally by: Nur AlHuda Also people dont do nearly plexing at all or only as their corp ops. Average combat ops ends at the gate and thats all. Rarely in complex couse of the rats.
Now this is closer to my experience. My corp and I do most of our hunting at gates, but we do do plenty of plex, celestial and safespot work too. It is well supported that some of the plex mechanics need a little touch up and bug fix to improve this.
Originally by: Nur AlHuda Thats the difference in 0.0 you get bonuses from soveregnity and you cna see direct impact on your alliance. In missions in empire you have the loot but in factional warfare your actions doesnt make difference and its just for pvp.
It is just for PvP, but it makes a difference to the amount of fun you have, the amount of kills you get, the amount of experience you gain and the level of your reputation. There is an awful lot that just PvPing all the time gets you in EVE and it is only carebears and 0.0 die hards, that are unwilling to give up their territorial ambitions and the horrors of POS bashing they require, that fail to see that... probably because their perspective is overly coloured by their own preferences.
Originally by: Nur AlHuda So basicaly any pvp or pirate corp can offer the same if not more then the actual factional warfare.
Good ones can, bad ones cannot.
What is more, a PvP and Pirate corp such as mine is capable of enjoying all types of warfare outside FW will still being in and enjoying FW itself. We still do hi-sec wars, we still knock down POSes on rare occasion, we participated in the alliance tournament, we carry out plenty of low-sec piracy, and we roam in 0.0 to annoy our neighbours (my corp have an interesting, if hostile, relationship with CVA and friends). It need not be either/or, it can extend your experience rather than restrict it. You just have to accept that you can't be in an alliance, which is a good thing from my point of view.
Originally by: Nur AlHuda And factional warfare wil stay as introduction to newbies to pvp
It's an excellent introduction to PvP and this is definately something that FW can be proud of, but that is by no means the limit to what FW has to offer.
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Tybalt Usra
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Posted - 2009.02.24 15:56:00 -
[14]
The only "fix" facwar needs is to the people invloved with it.
EVE pvp is a sandbox and facwar is a spade. Stop crying for CCP to build you a theme park.
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zombiedeadhead
Minmatar Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2009.02.24 16:39:00 -
[15]
Fac War dying? Fix the lag is all thats needed, the rest is up to you and what you make of it.
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Chav Queen
22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit
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Posted - 2009.02.24 16:51:00 -
[16]
FW has been great for getting people to move from high sec into low sec systems. However I do beleive that a great number of people in the militias will only venture into low sec as part of the huge lag fleets that both sides field.
If there was a LP award system for taking plexes and systems it woould encourage many more small gangs and solo pilots to get into low sec and join the action.
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Terianna Eri
Amarr Scrutari
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Posted - 2009.02.24 16:52:00 -
[17]
All that FW really needs is for occupancy to mean something. Having rank mean something too would be cool.
Also fix lag etc etc etc. __________________________________
Originally by: CCP Whisper Boo hoo. Cry some more.
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Saaya Illirie
Caldari Core Element Blackguard Coalition
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Posted - 2009.02.24 17:32:00 -
[18]
My ideas: Player Controlled Plex's: this idea is in the works for ratting, I believe, well it could work for FW. Players upgrade their plex's difficulty over time based on how long it's been there.
Introduce a new ship: The COMBAT ORCA. Have two of these able to create jump bridges between one another, or linked to faction jump bridges in a system. The "Orca" would need to position itself within a system, anchor itself for 10 minutes much like a seige module (possibly with a cyno like beacon, and with fuel costs) and allow reinforcements to jump in. Personally, this would be interesting/viable for 0.0 warfare as well, a lot like black ops. Obviously this ship would need a nice buffer tank/active tank capabilities as it would be an immediate primary. This ship wouldn't be jump capable, and would need to use jump gates, so combined with slow align times it's vulnerable to intel and gate camps. Suffer not the insufferable to live. |
Draco Rosso
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Posted - 2009.02.24 20:31:00 -
[19]
To be honest Faction Warfare is working as intended. Those dont think otherwise are doing it wrong plain and simple. If more corps took the time and put together actual plexing campaigns Faction warfare will live up to its true promise. Battles will happen all over the faction warfare maps. This is already happening now just on smaller scale. The Gallente and Caldari corporations that actually are taking the time plex in faction warfare regions are locked in fierce combat on nightly basis. If that werent enough there are plenty of pirates in the faction warfare will not hesitate to pew pew you inside the plexes. Whenever I see threads that faction warfare is dying I find myself at lost and thinking to myself WTFBBQ. To me faction warfare is fine Im getting a lot of pew pew on nightly basis and Im helping take over systems.
If want more meaningful pew pew talk to your ceo to start a plexing campaign. Or get your self in one of the better corps in faction warfare. Join the actual fight your empire faction needs you! If not then we have no choice but to pillage and burn all your systems while you post here about how FW is not rewarding enough for you.
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olzi
Caldari Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2009.02.24 21:01:00 -
[20]
The biggest limiting thing in FW right now is the lag, I think. If CCP would give more juice for the lowsec servers, we players will be able to create new content by using differing strategies.
I wouldn't mind some kind of reward for the higher ranks, if nothing else let me pin those general stripes to my character when ambulation hits.
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chatgris
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Posted - 2009.02.24 22:18:00 -
[21]
CCP doesn't want FW to be any better... I read a post/article from a dev on these forums stating quite clearly that they consider it a noob activity that should only be a stepping stone into 0.0, and nothing more.
Am I bitter? Yes. Is fw still better than 0.0? Hell yeah :)
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Raimo
Gallente Wrath of Fenris
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Posted - 2009.02.24 23:21:00 -
[22]
Originally by: chatgris CCP doesn't want FW to be any better... I read a post/article from a dev on these forums stating quite clearly that they consider it a noob activity that should only be a stepping stone into 0.0, and nothing more.
Am I bitter? Yes. Is fw still better than 0.0? Hell yeah :)
Ditto. Clueless Devs. ---
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Sillas Cov
22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit
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Posted - 2009.02.25 06:07:00 -
[23]
My Post was intended to get some debate moving and people thinking about possibilities concerning the potential of Fac War.
As a gamer with 30 years of experience, I've come to understand what keeps me so engaged with gaming in general. As a game designer I had to ask myself this question in depth in my past.
The answer is complex, personal, but simple: Its being involved with interesting situations and decisions and dynamic results that you have a hand in creating....its the quality and range or depth of the decisions you can make within a game that keeps one engaged.
I've put my time into small gang PVP in Factional Warfare and see where this is headed as the months unfold. Yes learning to become lethal in this game takes dedication, but still the range of options is still limited.
The ideas I outlined above are mention to add another layer of possibility into the game. The cool game choices and situations that would come out of them are very obvious to me and would have an immediate impact in game.
Honestly you don't think your militia would not coordinate all the top ranking officers to get plexes to pop in locations that made sense rather than some random, post down time crap shoot?
I can tell the Caldari would call for a few choice systems to be hit hard to flip them. The 2D strategic map I described would be used to really plan a coordinated battle plan for systems taken.
Yes Much of this is already happening as thus Fac war is working.... but in a way that is painfully unprofessional, due to the crude way in which the war is fought by the various militia corps.
This not a statement to cast blame, but to outline that our pilots and leadership can only do so much to try and get at the plexes needed to flip a system. Where they show is random.
But lets face it, wars are fought with serious resources, and not just randomness as it is now.
Cpp is not going to improve upon fac war if you guys continue to pretend its all okay.. its fun, but frankly for how long?
And further Fac War could be a fully matured game mechanic within eve on par with the 0.0 game, if only it had the resources to allow for professionalism to really take off.
Remember 0.0 is populated by pilots willing fight over unclaimed resources by the 4 races. The militias fight on behalf of the state. As such the state, (CPP), should provide our pilots the tools and isk to do the job and pay for it.
Other wise it seems like the ease of military role playing is lost to endless small gang pvp without the depth of really complex strategic game play as is found in 0.0.
Again these are my thoughts, generated from 2 months of solid Plex warfare. One has time to think while running the timer down....
Onward
Sillas
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EmpressShiva
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Posted - 2009.02.25 08:46:00 -
[24]
Sadly, I don't think it matters what is suggested; no one seems to really care. The rest that seem to care about FW and are interested in increasing the population, aren't prepared to change anything to do so.
If only we could have proper military campaigns and the like, small tangible rewards akin to missioning, increased insurance, automated organisation, a more streamlined experience.. something, anything. The majority of Sillas ideas are a step forward for FW.
If EVE is truly a players 'sandbox', why do players even get paid for doing NPC missions- why is FW mystically so different from NPC missions, you're doing the same thing, only now you don't get paid squat and your enemies are 1000% more dangerous; what is the big reason for keeping FW a bankruptcy mechanic with so few draws.. hunting pirates in low-sec is far more exciting/profitable, while not having to leave your corp or destroy your safe zones.
FW can be alot more than a poor-mans 0.0 without destroying the EVE experience. I'm hoping the developers will see something in the FW beyond its current state eventually.
There's much potential here but the devs simply aren't willing to expand on it. I'm prepared to whine until they do, as it's one of the few features in EVE I'd love to see expanded.
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Soporo
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.02.25 08:52:00 -
[25]
Well, whatever it's current foibles or failings I imagine that FW will take a significant participation hit the instant M10/WH comes out. Just saying don't be suprised when the numbers start to dwindle. Course I could be wrong, but I don't think so.
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EmpressShiva
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Posted - 2009.02.25 08:56:00 -
[26]
The moment worm holes open, everyone is going to flee to them to make some profit while having fun; instead of one or the other. So yes, you should be correct.
To be fair, EVE does need the PVE overhaul badly. It's been out of the loop longer than FW could ever be.
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X Gallentius
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Posted - 2009.02.25 20:19:00 -
[27]
Edited by: X Gallentius on 25/02/2009 20:20:21
Originally by: Sillas Cov My Post was intended to get some debate moving and people thinking about possibilities concerning the potential of Fac War.
As a gamer with 30 years of experience, I've come to understand what keeps me so engaged with gaming in general. As a game designer I had to ask myself this question in depth in my past.
Eve the game is a big sandbox, FW is a small part of that bigger box.
I think the ultimate answer is that now that you've cut your teeth in FW, go find or start an alliance and head on out to 0.0.
The other answer may be to keep cutting your teeth by building and defending POS structures; or do other things that will lead to your successful migration to 0.0
High Sec: Tiny little crocodile hatchling Low Sec: Juvenile Croc (Factional Warfare helps you go from a hatchling to a terrifying PvP God) 0.0: Fully grown beast ready to eat men alive.
In the Squids case, however, FW has taught you how to sit on a button and run away from fights. ;)
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2009.02.25 21:47:00 -
[28]
Originally by: X Gallentius <snip>The other answer may be to keep cutting your teeth by building and defending POS structures; or do other things that will lead to your successful migration to 0.0
High Sec: Tiny little crocodile hatchling Low Sec: Juvenile Croc (Factional Warfare helps you go from a hatchling to a terrifying PvP God) 0.0: Fully grown beast ready to eat men alive.
I beg to differ on your praises of null-sec. - POS management and sovereignty are exercises in logistic prowess and infinitely boring. - 0.0 has very little PvP .. fleet fights with carriers, snipers and bubbles all over have more in common with shoot 'em up arcade games than anything else.
0.0: Fully grown beast that may eat men alive, provided you are not bored to death first.
I spent 2 years in 0.0 sniping, camping and repairing pos mods but it is quite frankly tedious. FW renewed my enjoyment of the game and made it less of a chore to do what must be done.
FW PvP differs greatly from 0.0 due to much smaller but more intense engagements and no limits to ship types on field. It requires you to: - Acquire intel (often not possible) from neighbouring systems in case of larger gangs waiting. - Evaluate/view each hostile to determine weapons and guess as to fittings. - Manoeuvre around grid keeping a target in range while evading as much damage from his buddies and NPCs on his side as possible. - Work with inexperienced pilots without tearing their heads off (harder than it sounds!). - etc. etc.
I can semi-reliably kill most non-drone bonus ships cruiser and down (except T2 Matar hulls) using a t2 fitted Punisher or Slicer .. and I am not even close to some others in the militias (never did take a liking to HACs/AFs, cost-benefit is out of whack) The button you mention has given me a thousand kills, most of them solo and often against superior numbers. Sure it's boring at times, but most things are .. the important thing for me is that the excitement/boredom ratio is much more in favour of the former rather than the latter, the opposite of what I experienced in 0.0.
PS: You'd be surprised at how many 0.0 residents come to the FW areas for 'lulz and recreation' and is sent home in pods by 'inferior' ships.
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As for the original post, the stagnation of FW was predicted long ago. It is trench warfare and as such it's ugly, gruesome and inhumane. FW needs a lot of work, but fixing the mechanics themselves should have priority over the addition of incentives. - Speedtanking should be abolished by requiring annihilation of all NPC for capture. - NPC's target calling should be improved, not all chase a ship 100km away. - NPC's reacting slowly to neutrals and not at all to characters with the "right" standings ... you get the idea.
I am hoping for a rank based discount in faction LP stores. Adding strategic options based on rank is probably way too complex. And lastly, faction rats already have bounties in the form of tags. Sell them on market or to NPC navies. Biggest BS rats are worth a million or so in tags I think.
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Chanayema
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Posted - 2009.02.25 21:57:00 -
[29]
Some people are acting like 0.0 is Eve's level 80. If you haven't reached 0.0, you're a noob. Maybe even the devs believe that, considering that the characters they play are probably ages old and are part of active (or disbanded) alliances. Makes you wonder if they even play their own game fully (including FW).
However, if Eve is supposed to be a sandbox, then it should be perfectly fine if people choose to concentrate on the FW part of that sandbox. Right now, this isn't fully possible because FW is a money sink without the possible income that 0.0 or even carebear missioning provides.
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Sillas Cov
22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit
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Posted - 2009.02.25 23:19:00 -
[30]
Originally by: X Gallentius The other answer may be to keep cutting your teeth by building and defending POS structures; or do other things that will lead to your successful migration to 0.0
X Gallentius, thanks for jumping into the thread, but bro...the quality and intensity of factional warfare, is as every bit as cool as the 0.0 game, even with the simple plex/gate battle sites we engage in or at, atm.
I'm NOT looking to move to 0.0 anytime soon. The pvp is great in fac war...... I want it even better so I DONT have to move on.
Ive done 3 months in 0.0 and see what happens there to a significant degree, and Im not into that at this time for many of the reasons mentioned in these forums for months now. POS warfare = death by...... fizz!
The small gang work we get in Fac war would benefit from some variation in game mechanics that would make it unique within the eve pvp arena.
Take the use of accumulated command points, to call in Plexs. Imagine if you will a system like Nennemalia where the Gallente have decided to take and hold. Both sides would be madly spending CPs to pop plexes there to get the situation to escalate in their favor. The fighting would be intense and very dynamic, with counter plexing ect.....
All wars have active fronts that are somewhat definable by the parties involved. Right now you can only really choose a region, and then plex like a mad man to get systems there to roll. Way to broad, for detailed planning.
Imagine if the odds of a plex appearing increased with each successful call in a system and the adjacent system. Thus radiating out from the focus system(s) to nearby systems.... where an organic front of plexes could be generated.
Again its no big deal to implement this with some solid design effort.
Quote: FW needs a lot of work, but fixing the mechanics themselves should have priority over the addition of incentives.
Um..., why not deal with both right now. I have corp mates who have to go off and running missions to make isk, which pulls them outta fleet ops. This seems insane and completely unrealistic for a military operation. Its akin to holding down a part time job while you fight in your countries military over seas with a trip back home to work at Costco to buy tanks and gear....
If the incentives where such that player bounties, rat bounties and LP rewards could provide 50 mil here and there, then pvp would sustain itself in small gang ships that are cheaper to build/buy. Let the pilots be able to fund ship lose with T1 ships via their actions in combat.
"- Speed tanking should be abolished by requiring annihilation of all NPC for capture."
Yes I have thought about this as well. Group activities are very rewarding and plex ops that require combined arms and numbers would improve Fac war IMHO. I've already experienced this in my Crops fleets. make it a requirement that all the rats must be taken out to drop a plex, or at least pay out the highest amount of LP or command/victory points.
The new Sleeper rats in the Worm Holes are going to drawn huge numbers of pilots in organized fleets, into them to attempt to crack them. SO then why not have the major unrestricted plexes provide extreme challenges for fleet?? This would force solid team work on the pilots who attempt to drop the plex.
CPP could drop the number of plexes needed to flip a system but increase the overall challenge of the task for the major and medium plexes.
Quote "I am hoping for a rank based discount in faction LP stores."
Great idea.
Quote" And lastly, faction rats already have bounties in the form of tags."
Sorry bro this is mindless game play... I refuse to hunt for Easter eggs to pay my way unless I absolutely have too. I fly slower ships in pvp and am not risking my ship to fly around and loot tags.... the time and frustration of a ship lose far outweighs getting tags and a isk from them.
In plex warfare speed of op = life.
Regardless some good ideas here being batted around.
Onward
Sillas
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