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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 11 post(s) |
Amarr Holymight
Celestial Janissaries Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2009.02.25 21:45:00 -
[31]
You should consider giving the Neut/Vampire a range bonus to make it useful this is one of the areas the Pilgrim suffers, but at least they can use a Covert ops cloak. Can we all be given level V subsystem skills on SISI so we can test them more thoroughly and give proper feedback.
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Horchan
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.02.25 21:48:00 -
[32]
Damnit, why do you have to do these things while I'm at college for the day... ---
DesuSigs |
Aya Vandenovich
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Posted - 2009.02.25 21:54:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Amarr Holymight You should consider giving the Neut/Vampire a range bonus to make it useful this is one of the areas the Pilgrim suffers, but at least they can use a Covert ops cloak.
The pilgrim also doesn't have half a dozen pulse lasers and a decent armour tank, the neut/nos effectiveness bonus is fine. A range bonus might be a bit imbalanced. Somewhere In England |
Zhang Ramses
Chaos From Order
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Posted - 2009.02.25 21:55:00 -
[34]
Any chance you can stop with the mirrors? Several times now I've had to re-queue the exact same set of skills, idle in the moveme channel to get moved to fd-, and buy silly amounts of modules/ships/etc just to test.
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Cailais
Amarr 0utbreak KrautbreaK
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Posted - 2009.02.25 22:23:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Aya Vandenovich
Originally by: Amarr Holymight You should consider giving the Neut/Vampire a range bonus to make it useful this is one of the areas the Pilgrim suffers, but at least they can use a Covert ops cloak.
The pilgrim also doesn't have half a dozen pulse lasers and a decent armour tank, the neut/nos effectiveness bonus is fine. A range bonus might be a bit imbalanced.
No. But it does have E-War in the form of TD's and actually its tank isn't too bad. The reason the Pilgrim is viable as a short range nos / neut platform is its cloak. Without this its a trivial matter to disable one. A range / amount bonus is a must imho - although that wouldnt prevent a slot modifier being applied or some other minor drawback.
C.
Originally by: Capa So if you wake up one morning and it's a particularly beautiful day, you'll know we made it.
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Amarr Holymight
Celestial Janissaries Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2009.02.25 22:23:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Amarr Holymight on 25/02/2009 22:24:17
Originally by: Aya Vandenovich
Originally by: Amarr Holymight You should consider giving the Neut/Vampire a range bonus to make it useful this is one of the areas the Pilgrim suffers, but at least they can use a Covert ops cloak.
The pilgrim also doesn't have half a dozen pulse lasers and a decent armour tank, the neut/nos effectiveness bonus is fine. A range bonus might be a bit imbalanced.
You obviously think they can fit a heavy capacitor booster too, seriously you should try fitting out a Legion to do all this and see how stupid you look.
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Pattern Clarc
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Posted - 2009.02.25 22:38:00 -
[37]
need to assign bandwidth to more loki subsystems ____
My Blog Is Awesome
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Mica Swanhaven
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Posted - 2009.02.25 22:46:00 -
[38]
I think tech 3 should be... tech 2 tank (mayb a little better but not by much) tech 2 ship dps output tech 2 ship speed.
but they should have the structure hp of 3-4 cruisers. This why they have more survivability without being "stronger"
just think about it.
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Aya Vandenovich
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Posted - 2009.02.25 22:47:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Aya Vandenovich on 25/02/2009 22:47:36
Originally by: Cailais
Originally by: Aya Vandenovich
Originally by: Amarr Holymight You should consider giving the Neut/Vampire a range bonus to make it useful this is one of the areas the Pilgrim suffers, but at least they can use a Covert ops cloak.
The pilgrim also doesn't have half a dozen pulse lasers and a decent armour tank, the neut/nos effectiveness bonus is fine. A range bonus might be a bit imbalanced.
No. But it does have E-War in the form of TD's and actually its tank isn't too bad. The reason the Pilgrim is viable as a short range nos / neut platform is its cloak. Without this its a trivial matter to disable one. A range / amount bonus is a must imho - although that wouldnt prevent a slot modifier being applied or some other minor drawback.
C.
That's the point, though. It's not a Pilgrim, it's essentially a HAC with T2 resists, four other subsystem bonuses, and a heat bonus. It wouldn't need to rely on nos/neuts as one of its primary weapons, hence why it only gets effectiveness right now, and giving it all of the Curse's nos/neut bonuses would be as imbalanced as giving the Pilgrim a range bonus.
Somewhere In England |
Cailais
Amarr 0utbreak KrautbreaK
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Posted - 2009.02.25 22:49:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Amarr Holymight ... there isn't enough diversity in the layouts from what I can see.
Because we're missing 2 subsystems. Its the 5^5 that provided the breadth of options. reduce it to 3^5 and the 'optimal set up' criteria is that much easier to determine.
In essence you've got a choice from a selection of 15 subsystems (rather than 25). Of those 15, about 5 will be sub-par in comparison to the other 10, regardless of configuration purely on the basis of role bonuses. In reality then you're only looking at 2^5 options - still a large number sure but nothing in terms of what was unveiled at FF09.
(as an analogy its like playing MTG with red and blue removed as color options for deck construction)
C.
Originally by: Capa So if you wake up one morning and it's a particularly beautiful day, you'll know we made it.
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Cailais
Amarr 0utbreak KrautbreaK
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Posted - 2009.02.25 23:03:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Aya Vandenovich
That's the point though. It's not a Pilgrim, it's essentially a HAC with T2 resists, four other subsystem bonuses, and a heat bonus. It wouldn't need to rely on nos/neuts as one of its primary weapons, hence why it only gets effectiveness right now, and giving it all of the Curse's nos/neut bonuses would be as imbalanced as giving the Pilgrim a range bonus.
The other subsystems aren't really "bonuses", they simply comprise the ships 'structure' - you dont refer to the Pilgrims 4 slot highs as a 'bonus' do you? And the 'subsystem skill' bonuses make the ship equivalent to or slightly better than, its T2 counterpart.
It's really back to the old Pilgrim argument of nos/neut bonus at close range at the problems that entails. i.e you're inside web range / scram range or dangerously close to it - but if you dont get that close your nos/neut bonus is wasted. If you do - and you really aught to to maximise the ships capability - you'll need a demon tank to survive. At which point any T3 attribute 'boost' to your tank becomes not an advantage but an out right necessity in order to be competitive.
Compare this with say a web ranged bonus on a +tank HAC.
A HAC + web range bonus vs a HAC with neut amount bonus. The webber HAC is a hands down winner every time, because it loses no high slots to fit the web (maxing dps), the Neut HAC loses dps = neuts fitted (out of range) and cant close (webbed).
C.
Originally by: Capa So if you wake up one morning and it's a particularly beautiful day, you'll know we made it.
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Xonja 2zero
Vale Heavy Industries Molotov Coalition
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Posted - 2009.02.25 23:04:00 -
[42]
The Proteus can now be set up as a drone boat with 175m¦ bay and 100mbit bandwidth. That's a step in the right direction, but it needs more to stand up to the other T3 ships in my opinion.
No other ship type lacks standoff capability as much as Gallente medium sized ships. Short range guns (blasters) only work deep within scrambler range, and outside of that, drones can be shot down.
With a mix of 3 T2 Ogres and 2 Hammerheads, or 4 T2 Ogres, the Proteus has a drone damage potential of 380dps. Subtract drone travel times, and the fact that heavy drones die quickly, and it's moot to even use heavies without spares. 5 Hammerheads do a measly 238dps.
So let's have a look at sentry drones. 4 T2 Gardes deal 360 dps, but are heavily range limited, so the target needs to be fully tackled (not a good idea flying a gank magnet). 4 T2 Curators do 293 dps and have decent range. Now we have standoff capability - still, sentries won't track pesky frigates, a feat all other race's medium weapon systems can do. So getting tackled, sentry drones would have to be abandoned to put out that set of Warriors. Having no spares, the ship's offense is now utterly gimped.
T3 ships are gonna be primary all the time, so fitting blasters is foolish. With railguns and medium drones, the damage is severly lacking. With sentry drones there are no spares, making the ship useless after one aborted engagement.
Please bring the Proteus in line with the other T3 cruisers. It doesn't have to have the range bonus of an Ishtar, but to make it a worthy T3 competitor, it needs to be able to engage more than once without resupplies, and at a range matching the other racial ships. This means at least 275m¦ drone bay. 125mbit would be nice too. |
Laszlo Ozawa
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Posted - 2009.02.25 23:04:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Laszlo Ozawa on 25/02/2009 23:04:42
Originally by: Aya Vandenovich
That's the point, though. It's not a Pilgrim, it's essentially a HAC with T2 resists, four other subsystem bonuses, and a heat bonus. It wouldn't need to rely on nos/neuts as one of its primary weapons, hence why it only gets effectiveness right now, and giving it all of the Curse's nos/neut bonuses would be as imbalanced as giving the Pilgrim a range bonus.
lets think outside of currently-existing conventions for a moment, why does the ship effectively have to be a HAC or a pilgrim? Are no roles to fill or ways to balance the class that they've to be locked into some kind of a red-headed stepchild of those two?
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Ferria
Caldari FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2009.02.25 23:11:00 -
[44]
Will be bug reporting it, but when ever I log or leave a t3 ship it resets the ship to base and destroys the mods I had on it. it also takes up the slots and does not allow them to be used.
However I love the new slot layouts, bonuses, and settings.
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Cailais
Amarr 0utbreak KrautbreaK
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Posted - 2009.02.25 23:12:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Laszlo Ozawa Edited by: Laszlo Ozawa on 25/02/2009 23:04:42
Originally by: Aya Vandenovich
That's the point, though. It's not a Pilgrim, it's essentially a HAC with T2 resists, four other subsystem bonuses, and a heat bonus. It wouldn't need to rely on nos/neuts as one of its primary weapons, hence why it only gets effectiveness right now, and giving it all of the Curse's nos/neut bonuses would be as imbalanced as giving the Pilgrim a range bonus.
lets think outside of currently-existing conventions for a moment, why does the ship effectively have to be a HAC or a pilgrim? Are no roles to fill or ways to balance the class that they've to be locked into some kind of a red-headed stepchild of those two?
Because HACs / HICS and RECONS are the T2 cruiser class its against these that all T3 cruisers will be compared.
C.
Originally by: Capa So if you wake up one morning and it's a particularly beautiful day, you'll know we made it.
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2009.02.25 23:16:00 -
[46]
Where to start...
The new changes to the stats are an improvement. At least now there are a higher number of workable slot combinations. There are still a very large number (percentage wise) of slot combinations for all four ship types that are either totally unworkable or just useless/redundant for one reason or another.
I find myself mixing/matching subsystems in order to get a workable slot combination first and then seeing what bonuses/hardpoints I'm left with, which is a really bad thing.
Players aren't thinking "Ok, I'd like to have a ship with a neut bonus, some guns and a resistance bonus." Instead it goes something like "Hmm, this slot layout sucks, this one sucks too, ok, this one isn't bad, let's see what kind of stats I have... ok, that's not totally horrible, I'll go with that."
And the stats/capabilities that do end up on the ships when you get a decent/workable layout are fairly mundane and just not that interesting/exciting. Not only are we not seeing any sort of performance advantage over a HAC or Recon of a similar role, but I'm actually seeing less overall performance with respect to total tank/DPS, speed, lock times etc. And fitting the EW bonused electronics subsystem totally gimps the ship when compared to other fittings, and totally isn't worth the small EW bonus that it provides.
Have I actually started using the T3 ships in combat yet? Nope. Not until some game breaking bugs can be fixed, like the cap regen being broke, ships not retaining their fits after exiting them, etc. etc.
What we need at the moment is a concise list of the current subsystem bonuses, not just a 'ROF bonus' but an actual number to the bonuses '10% ROF per level' as an example. Why make us guess at what the bonus is by reverse engineering when you can just give us a list? There isn't really any point in discussing the value of the subsystem bonuses without knowing just how much the bonus is going to affect the end performance now is there? And it's really pointless to force us to reverse engineer 60 subsystems worth of stats when you could just tell us.
Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Death of Virtue is Recruiting
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Laszlo Ozawa
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Posted - 2009.02.25 23:21:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Laszlo Ozawa on 25/02/2009 23:28:00
Originally by: Cailais
Because HACs / HICS and RECONS are the T2 cruiser class its against these that all T3 cruisers will be compared. C.
and that is my point for why these ships should attempt to distance themselves in the range of abilities rather than the comparable level of performance and focused bonus packages inherent to tech2 designs.
they have to be different, not essentially a ****tier version emerging from a different production line. present iterations are simply not different enough from existing ship roles, never mind the slot layouts which range from utter unworkable rubbish to mind-numbing boredom you can buy the relative equivalent of at full insurance cost.
its good to have a semblance of balance by asking why a a player should think twice before choosing a particular ship. but has anybody wondered, novelty and production-challenge aside, why a player would think to choose a tech 3 ship in any given scenario at all?
need i remind you that we still have ships in this game which appear to have been added as a nigh-spontaneous consequence of a drunken, hempen bender, with their roles so wildly undefined as them *still* seeing at best token usage -- and that's already after several post-release balancing passes and a good deal of time spent wondering how the hell to give anyone a reason to fly them.
the downside of overpowered things is them becoming de-rigeur. the downside of useless ships is that's an awful lot of work for the sole purpose of adding to entity's collection.
word to your mother.
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BlackHorizon
Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.02.25 23:26:00 -
[48]
Weapon bonuses: Instead of damage bonuses to medium weapons, I would like to see some fitting bonuses to Battleship/large sized weapons, for some added flavor. Similarly, instead of tracking bonuses, I'd like to see some "high" damage bonuses to frigate class weapons.
Warfare links: I'd also like to see some subsystems with a bonus to fitting gang warfare links. Some subsystem combinations are well into battlecruiser-class signature radii anyway, so adding this bonus wouldn't be extraordinary.
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Laszlo Ozawa
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Posted - 2009.02.25 23:30:00 -
[49]
Originally by: BlackHorizon
Warfare links: I'd also like to see some subsystems with a bonus to fitting gang warfare links. Some subsystem combinations are well into battlecruiser-class signature radii anyway, so adding this bonus wouldn't be extraordinary.
if you look more closely at the files, tech3 ships appear to have possibility of additional components besides the currently-implemented 5. it is not implausible to think we may someday see additional logistics or C&C components.
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2009.02.25 23:40:00 -
[50]
Specific feedback on current subsystem designs:
Proteus:
Overall I'm really disliking this ship's designs the most. The drone HP bonus provided by the engineering subsystem is really useless unless it's used in conjunction with the drone based offensive subsystem. When used with any other setup it's bonus is wasted. Yet another potential slot combination wasted because of this.
The drone based offensive subsystem isn't good enough. 100mb of bandwidth and 175m3 worth of dronebay just isn't worth using when you could have an Ishtar. It won't be competitive in PVP and therefor it simply won't be used. It's a wasted design.
The falloff bonus is supposed to help blasters, yet blasters still need to fight as close to optimal as possible to see their maximum damage potential. Adding a falloff bonus to a subsystem negates the possibility of fitting rails and having a useful range bonus like an optimal bonus. No one is going to pick the falloff bonus subsystem if the pure damage subsystem does more net DPS. Wasted effort.
Gallente EW bonus: it offers slightly more range on a disruptor than normal, but not as much as an actual recon, and when fitted it really *really* gimps the rest of the ship setup slot-wise. Couple this with the fact that the Proteus is usually going to be fit with blasters (it's drone capabilities are pretty boring at the moment) and you really don't have anything going for the ship that a Phobos can't do just as well, or even better, or a Lachesis/Arazu, if you're more interested in pure tackling range capability.
The Loki is kind of in the same boat, but for different reasons.
All of the EW electronic subsystems needlessly gimp the overall ship setups with the reduction of too many slots. Most everyone I've talked too deems the drawbacks too severe for the small benefit that the EW electronic subsystem provides.
The split weapon systems are another problem. The bonuses to the missile launchers and guns *still* isn't enough to warrant a split weapon system. There needs to be enough hardpoints for *both* guns and launchers to the point that you could go with 100% guns or launchers and still have a workable ship from a DPS standpoint. It makes no sense to split your efforts with damage mods (i.e. why use one gyro2 and one BCS2 when you could use 2x gyro2s, or fit another EANM2 etc.).
I think that total slot count for all T3 ships needs to be more aggressive, in addition to providing more net CPU and grid to be able to fit the additional modules.
So far I haven't been able to build a T3 ship that isn't out-performed by a similar HAC, Recon, HIC or Tier 1 BC (yes, it's absolutely fair to compare them to a BC, particularly when cost and training is involved).
T3 ships (so far) are still *very* traditional cruisers with respect to how to optimally fit them for combat and what tactics work best while flying them. The overall designs (balance wise, not art wise) are very conservative and middle of the road.
Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Death of Virtue is Recruiting
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2009.02.25 23:57:00 -
[51]
Because we're going to see three types of subsystems instead of five for the initial release, including the 'scan strength bonus' for one of the electronic subsystems at this point is waste of 33% of your available choices. Frilly bonuses like that need to be added in at the back end of things, or simply assigned as a role bonus, as it's a 'nice to have' bonus, but not something that anyone is going to actively choose because that's a priority when building a T3 ship.
Some suggestions for 'quirky' or unusual bonuses:
Offensive subsystems:
Amarr/Gallente: have a dedicated missile subsystem: missile ROF or damage bonus with +6-7 launcher hardpoints, -8 turret hardpoints.
All races: have a +2-3 turret hardpoint/high slot subsystem with a bonus to optimal, tracking and *gun signature resolution* (explosion velocity/radius for missile users) so that while still using medium guns, the ships equipped with this subsystem become ideal anti-frig platforms.
All races: race specific drone subsystem with a very large bonus to racial drone damage type, in addition to drone HP and speed for all other drones. This subsystem would also include additional bandwidth and drone bay space.
Engineering subsystems:
Add a subsystem that provides resistance to cap warfare: 15% reduction of all nos/neut effects to capacitor amount per level.
Electronics subsystems: have highly specialized subsystems:
One that focuses on lock speed: increases scan res by 75% per level.
One for sensor strength: increases sensor strength by 50% per level
One for variety: off-racial sensor strength, higher than usual, with average scan res and very good lock range. Adds an additional two targets to the maximum number of lockable targets.
The above attributes should be in addition to things like probe strength bonuses, combat probe launcher CPU reduction, covert ops cloak 2 CPU reduction, racial EW bonuses etc.
Each combination of subsystems should yield something amazing and wonderful, not something boring and mostly useless. Right now T3 is headed in the same direction as BlackOps BS, COSMOS items and stealth bombers.
Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Death of Virtue is Recruiting
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Sarin Adler
Caldari SPANI T o r m e n t u m
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Posted - 2009.02.26 00:53:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
So far I haven't been able to build a T3 ship that isn't out-performed by a similar HAC, Recon, HIC or Tier 1 BC (yes, it's absolutely fair to compare them to a BC, particularly when cost and training is involved).
T3 ships (so far) are still *very* traditional cruisers with respect to how to optimally fit them for combat and what tactics work best while flying them. The overall designs (balance wise, not art wise) are very conservative and middle of the road.
Haven't tried the Proteus yet, but I must say that tengu is looking good right now (try it if you can, whioch I guess you can), some very nice slot layout even if penalized in the lows. Good suggetings anyway.
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2009.02.26 01:01:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Sarin Adler
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
So far I haven't been able to build a T3 ship that isn't out-performed by a similar HAC, Recon, HIC or Tier 1 BC (yes, it's absolutely fair to compare them to a BC, particularly when cost and training is involved).
T3 ships (so far) are still *very* traditional cruisers with respect to how to optimally fit them for combat and what tactics work best while flying them. The overall designs (balance wise, not art wise) are very conservative and middle of the road.
Haven't tried the Proteus yet, but I must say that tengu is looking good right now (try it if you can, whioch I guess you can), some very nice slot layout even if penalized in the lows. Good suggetings anyway.
What with all the re-mirrorings I've been losing shield operation V lol, so I've had less experience with the Tengu than I'd have liked. Need to get it trained on TQ...
I've played with it before, but not since they've restructured the stats today.
Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Death of Virtue is Recruiting
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Winterreign
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Posted - 2009.02.26 01:25:00 -
[54]
Some of these might have already been covered or planned for future expansions but my take on T3 ships at this point are still pretty weak, having a hard time testing when cap leaks out. I know this was fixed but from a general standpoint a few ideas as the training and implimention of T3 cruisers are still not getting enough bonus's to make it worth while.
Here are my suggestions Faction Cruiser bonus - 5% heat reduction per level Stratigic Cruiser Bonus - 10% Sheild/Armor/Structure HP bonus per level
Starting out in a Tech 3 gives out a decent bonus, 25% heat reduction, Then you get a 10% bonus to armor/sheild/structure per level of stratigic cruiser, offing incentive and rewards for being in a Tech3 cruiser and continuing to train Tech3 cruser skills.
Elec subkills i tweaked a bit, Sub1 is faction EW bonus, Sub2 is bonus systems, Sub 3 represents hardened electonics. Everyone hates jamming this allows tech 3 ships to possess a little immunity.
Amarr Elec Sub 1 - 20% Energy Neutralizer/Vampire amount per lvl Amarr Elec Sub 2 - 10% reduction Signature Radius per lvl Amarr Elec Sub 3 - 20% sensor str + Scan rez per lvl
Caldari Elec Sub 1 - 20% ECM Strength per lvl Caldari Elec Sub 2 - 10% CPU Output/Max Targeting Range per lvl Caldari Elec Sub 3 - 20% Sensor Str + Scan Rez per lvl
Gallente Elec Sub 1 - 20% Warp Scramble Range per lvl Gallente Elec Sub 2 - 10% CPU Output/Max Targeting Range per lvl Gallente Elec Sub 3 - 20% Sensor str +Scan rez per lvl
Minmatar Elec Sub 1 - 20% bonus Stasis Webifier Range per lvl Minmatar Elec Sub 2 - 10% reduction Sig Radius per lvl Minmatar Elec Sub 3 - 20% Sensor Strength & scan rez per lvl
Def subkills where mentioned that all defsub where getting the rez bonus so i went ahead and modified them a bit.
Amarr Def Subsystem 1 - Rez Bonus + 10% armor Hp per lvl Amarr Def Subsystem 2 - Rez Bonus + 7.5% Armor Repair Amount Amarr Def Subsystem 3 - Rez Bonus + 5% Armor Rez
Caldari Def Subsystem 1 - Rez Bonus + 10% sheild Hp per lvl Caldari Def Subsystem 2 - Rez Bonus +7.5 Shield Boost Bonus Caldari Def Subsystem 3 - Rez bonus + 5% Sheild rez
Gallente Def Subsystem 1 - Rez + 10% armor HP bonus Gallente Def Subsystem 2 - Rez + 7.5% Repair Bonus Gallente Def Subsystem 3 - Rez + 10% Drone HP and Dronebay
Minmatar Def Subsystem 1 - Rez + 5% sheilds and armor per lvl Minmatar Def Subsystem 2 - Rez + 7.5% Armor Repair Bonus per lvl Minmatar Def Subsystem 3 - Rez + 7.5% Shield Boost Bonus per lvl
The offensive systems are also tweaked abit for those that like pure damage i have opened up that option allow some Tech 2 dmg bonus. All per lvl of course. Yes Gallente can field up to 10 drones at lvl5, was intentional as it should be phenominal
Amarr Off Sub 1 - 5% laser cap / 10% dmg bonus Amarr Off Sub 2 - 10% Laser Cap / 5% Damage / 10% Tracking Bonus Amarr Off Sub 3 - 10% Laser Cap / 5% Damage / 10%Optimal Range
Caldari Off Sub 1 - 10% kin Missile Damage / 5% Rate of Fire Bonus Caldari Off Sub 2 - 5% Missile Damage / 5% Flight / 5% Missile Vel Caldari Off Sub 3 - +5% Hybrid Damage / 10% Optimal Range
Gallente Off Sub 1 - 10% Hybrid Damage Bonus Gallente Off Sub 2 - 5% Hybrid Damage / +10% Optimal Bonus Gallente Off Sub 3 - 10% Drone Damage / +1 drone
Minmatar Off Sub 1 - 5% ROF / 10% Damage Bonus Minmatar Off Sub 2 - 5% ROF / 10% Falloff / 10% Optimal Range Bonus Minmatar Offensive Subsystem 3 - 10% Projectile / Missile Rate of Fire Bonus
I'll continue with next post as i am running out of space
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2009.02.26 01:28:00 -
[55]
Quote: Minmatar Def Subsystem 1 - Rez + 5% sheilds and armor per lvl Minmatar Def Subsystem 2 - Rez + 7.5% Armor Repair Bonus per lvl Minmatar Def Subsystem 3 - Rez + 7.5% Shield Boost Bonus per lvl
suggestion
those should be instead 10% cap amount for shield and armor repairers.
minmatar should be the masters of not needing cap imo.
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Cailais
Amarr Galactic Geographic
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Posted - 2009.02.26 01:37:00 -
[56]
Ive been giving some thought to the nature of T3 ships. The impression Im getting is that the subsystems are being tailored along racial lines - but in my view that might be the wrong way to approach T3.
I think, that the subsystems themselves should be basically identical for all races, with the exception of a 'Racial Special' for Electronic Subsystem 1 (which would mirror the Combat Recon bonus to Nos/Web/Scram/ECM).
So, as an example Defense Subsystem X would always provide a % bonus to shield booster and armour repair amount regardless of its race. The base ship (chasis/hull) would provide a generic bonus along racial lines.
Therefore you could build a caldari drone boat with extra low slots, or a better armour tank.
Im working on a spread sheet at the moment to provide some form of example, but Id be interested to hear others views on this.
C.
Originally by: Capa So if you wake up one morning and it's a particularly beautiful day, you'll know we made it.
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Winterreign
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Posted - 2009.02.26 01:51:00 -
[57]
Edited by: Winterreign on 26/02/2009 01:57:15 Next up engineering space. I've added somthing a little new in so much that The Eng subsystem 3 adds an additional rigging slot.
Amarr Eng Sub 1 - 5% Power Output per lvl Amarr Eng Sub 2 - 5% Capacitor recharge + cargo space Amarr Eng Sub 3 - 5% cap capacity + bonus rig slot
Caldari Eng Sub 1 - 5% Power Output Caldari Eng Sub 2 - 5% Cap recharge + cargo space Caldari Eng Sub 3 - 5% Cap capacity + bonus rig slot
Gallente Eng Sub 1 - 5% Power Output Gallente Eng Sub 2 - 5% cap recharge + cargo space Gallente Eng Sub 3 - 5% cap capacity + bonus rig slot
Minmatar Eng Sub 1 - 5% Power Output Minmatar Eng Sub 2 - 5% cap recharge + Cargo space Minmatar Eng Sub 3 - 5% Cap capacity + Bonus rig slot
Last up is propulsion systems. I tweaked this a little bit to provide more flavor. The Sub system 3 does indeed add a one time +1 bonus to your warp strength for amarr, everyone else has a scale they can build up for warp disrupter scrambler immunities, giving you @ lvl1 a warp strenght of 1 and at lvl 5 giving you 2.5 warp strength. If we were to add more systems you could start adding in bonus's for immunity to Stasis Webs
Amarr Propulsion Sub 1 - 5% Afterburner cap/speed bonus Amarr Propulsion Sub 2 - 5% MWD sig/cap reduction bonus Amarr Propulsion Sub 3 - 5% cap capacity per lvl +1 warp str
Caldari Propulsion Sub 1 - 5% Agility Bonus Caldari Propulsion Sub 2 - 5% MWD Sig/cap reduct Bonus Caldari Propulsion Sub 3 - .5 warp str per lvl (ship starts with .5 warp strength so that at lvl 1 u have 1 warp str and at lvl2 u have 1.5 all the way up to 2.5 which means you can escape from scramblers)
Gallente Propulsion Sub 1 - 10% MWD Signature Radius Penalty Reduct Gallente Propulsion Sub 2 - 5% Afterburner / MWD Capacitor Use Reduction Gallente Propulsion Sub 3 - .5 warp str per lvl (ship starts with .5 warp strength so that at lvl 1 u have 1 warp str and at lvl2 u have 1.5 all the way up to 2.5 which means you can escape from scramblers)
Minmatar Propulsion Subsystem 1 - 10% Velocity Bonus Minmatar Propulsion Subsystem 2 - 5% Agility Bonus Minmatar Propulsion Subsystem 3 - .5 warp str per lvl (ship starts with .5 warp strength so that at lvl 1 u have 1 warp str and at lvl2 u have 1.5 all the way up to 2.5 which means you can escape from scramblers)
These are not the end all be all, mearly suggestions to get CCP think'n and cranking out. Tech3 should be better then Tech2 in just about every way, however like all things in Eve you have to train skillz to acheive this.
-W
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Turiel Demon
Minmatar Inhumation Inc.
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Posted - 2009.02.26 02:16:00 -
[58]
With all the changes going on on the T3 ships over the last few weeks, it seems to me that with all the work that has gone into creating them, the actual thought as to how they were going to work in the game (bonuses, slot layout, purpose in general) was left until last.
Is this an illusion? If not, it does rather give the impression that the design process went something like 'hey, we need T(n) ships, lets A: announce them B: make them look good C: finish off the models and the physics for them D: work out the skill plans for them E: did we forget something? Oh damn, that's right...'
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2009.02.26 02:39:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Winterreign Edited by: Winterreign on 26/02/2009 01:57:15 Next up engineering space. I've added somthing a little new in so much that The Eng subsystem 3 adds an additional rigging slot.
Amarr Eng Sub 1 - 5% Power Output per lvl Amarr Eng Sub 2 - 5% Capacitor recharge + cargo space Amarr Eng Sub 3 - 5% cap capacity + bonus rig slot
Caldari Eng Sub 1 - 5% Power Output Caldari Eng Sub 2 - 5% Cap recharge + cargo space Caldari Eng Sub 3 - 5% Cap capacity + bonus rig slot
Gallente Eng Sub 1 - 5% Power Output Gallente Eng Sub 2 - 5% cap recharge + cargo space Gallente Eng Sub 3 - 5% cap capacity + bonus rig slot
Minmatar Eng Sub 1 - 5% Power Output Minmatar Eng Sub 2 - 5% cap recharge + Cargo space Minmatar Eng Sub 3 - 5% Cap capacity + Bonus rig slot
Last up is propulsion systems. I tweaked this a little bit to provide more flavor. The Sub system 3 does indeed add a one time +1 bonus to your warp strength for amarr, everyone else has a scale they can build up for warp disrupter scrambler immunities, giving you @ lvl1 a warp strenght of 1 and at lvl 5 giving you 2.5 warp strength. If we were to add more systems you could start adding in bonus's for immunity to Stasis Webs
Amarr Propulsion Sub 1 - 5% Afterburner cap/speed bonus Amarr Propulsion Sub 2 - 5% MWD sig/cap reduction bonus Amarr Propulsion Sub 3 - 5% cap capacity per lvl +1 warp str
Caldari Propulsion Sub 1 - 5% Agility Bonus Caldari Propulsion Sub 2 - 5% MWD Sig/cap reduct Bonus Caldari Propulsion Sub 3 - .5 warp str per lvl (ship starts with .5 warp strength so that at lvl 1 u have 1 warp str and at lvl2 u have 1.5 all the way up to 2.5 which means you can escape from scramblers)
Gallente Propulsion Sub 1 - 10% MWD Signature Radius Penalty Reduct Gallente Propulsion Sub 2 - 5% Afterburner / MWD Capacitor Use Reduction Gallente Propulsion Sub 3 - .5 warp str per lvl (ship starts with .5 warp strength so that at lvl 1 u have 1 warp str and at lvl2 u have 1.5 all the way up to 2.5 which means you can escape from scramblers)
Minmatar Propulsion Subsystem 1 - 10% Velocity Bonus Minmatar Propulsion Subsystem 2 - 5% Agility Bonus Minmatar Propulsion Subsystem 3 - .5 warp str per lvl (ship starts with .5 warp strength so that at lvl 1 u have 1 warp str and at lvl2 u have 1.5 all the way up to 2.5 which means you can escape from scramblers)
These are not the end all be all, mearly suggestions to get CCP think'n and cranking out. Tech3 should be better then Tech2 in just about every way, however like all things in Eve you have to train skillz to acheive this.
-W
your bonuses are better than ccps...
anyays, no worries, even they they "out stat" tech 2 ships, it doesn't matter.
I've killed Assault frigates in my rifter. stats are everything, they are just helpful.
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2009.02.26 02:51:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Turiel Demon With all the changes going on on the T3 ships over the last few weeks, it seems to me that with all the work that has gone into creating them, the actual thought as to how they were going to work in the game (bonuses, slot layout, purpose in general) was left until last.
Is this an illusion? If not, it does rather give the impression that the design process went something like 'hey, we need T(n) ships, lets A: announce them B: make them look good C: finish off the models and the physics for them D: work out the skill plans for them E: did we forget something? Oh damn, that's right...'
I'd say you're probably right on the money with that, whether it was intended or not. (meaning intended by CCP)
Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Death of Virtue is Recruiting
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