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Coronae Borealis
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Posted - 2009.02.27 13:30:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Gamer4liff With the coming expansion and boxed release, combined with what I imagine will be a large marketing push by CCP, the EVE population stands to jump a large amount. For a while now, we've no longer been "The biggest of the small" but moved on to "The smallest of the big". While this growth will bring mucho dinero to CCP, there are some game problems that I foresee with the influx of pod pilots.
Ore availability
With things as bad as they are now in empire, finding a half decent belt will be just that much harder. Mineral prices would stand to increase as well. Exploration belts are somewhat nice, but they don't do enough to alleviate the problem. This is going to be a very fast crunch if the population increases dramatically, and with it, the demand for ships and mods.
This will bottleneck the entire eve economy, and lead to a variety of problems.
The idea of system-wide asteroid belts has been tossed around since Shiva (Exodus), and with the increased population, I really think this should happen sooner, rather than later.
Slot Availability
The material efficiency and copy efficiency research backlog piles higher and higher, with the only solution being expensive and annoying to operate highsec research POSes. This solution is untenable to the casual researcher. Without a clear research advancement path that does not hinder dramatically the player, that functionality is lost.
This expansion seems like the best expansion in years, but we have to think through some of the concequences of the impending new player swarm.
Did you know that there is other regions than The Forge..?
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Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N. Dara Cothrom
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Posted - 2009.02.27 13:30:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Ms Delerium Edited by: Ms Delerium on 27/02/2009 13:10:59
Originally by: Demitria Fernir The new Unnatural Evil Growth that Atari will bring will only last 3 or 4 weeks top, followed by a free-falling in regular subscribers.
haha sure, but we are suffering for those months an overpopulation. Probably more lag, lack of resources, prices rising up, and lots of whine on forums.
However, the final population is being increased. A % of those new mass people will stay. Some of them will actually learn the game mechanics and get it. Not everyone is gonna be a kid. And certain aspects of this game must be readapted.
Macroers should be banned definitely. With the population growth there is not a point on keeping them. This is good, I prefer tons of noobs cleaning the veldspar better than some macroers and farmers earning isk and real life money illegally. On the other way I think it would be easy to just increase the number of rocks on each belt, and their ore amount. Easy adjustements.
Same for missions, stations, whatever. Maybe more systems on high sec, low sec and conquerable (0.0). This can be a problem, how the hells can you increase high sec systems without modifying some routes making them larger.
But hey im sure some changes will be needed.
Well I agree absolutely that the M10 launch should coincide with a mass slaughter of macroers, farmers, RMT accounts & such.
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Gamer4liff
Caldari Metalworks THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY
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Posted - 2009.02.27 13:59:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Gamer4liff on 27/02/2009 13:59:04
Originally by: Khlitouris RegusII
Theres ****loads of ore in 0.0
Yeah right like people are going to mine common ores in 0.0.
Originally by: Coronae Borealis Did you know that there is other regions than The Forge..?
Yeah no kidding, I haven't been to the forge in weeks. As I previously stated I live in Amarr space and it is constantly stripped bare. From what I've seen, ALL of empire space is suffering from this. Ask a miner, the ore in empire belts is negligible these days. -----------
Originally by: CCP Whisper Deal with it.
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Bethulsunamen
Amarr Viziam
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Posted - 2009.02.27 14:04:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Gamer4liff With the coming expansion and boxed release, combined with what I imagine will be a large marketing push by CCP, the EVE population stands to jump a large amount. For a while now, we've no longer been "The biggest of the small" but moved on to "The smallest of the big". While this growth will bring mucho dinero to CCP, there are some game problems that I foresee with the influx of pod pilots.
Ore availability
With things as bad as they are now in empire, finding a half decent belt will be just that much harder. Mineral prices would stand to increase as well. Exploration belts are somewhat nice, but they don't do enough to alleviate the problem. This is going to be a very fast crunch if the population increases dramatically, and with it, the demand for ships and mods.
This will bottleneck the entire eve economy, and lead to a variety of problems.
The idea of system-wide asteroid belts has been tossed around since Shiva (Exodus), and with the increased population, I really think this should happen sooner, rather than later.
Slot Availability
The material efficiency and copy efficiency research backlog piles higher and higher, with the only solution being expensive and annoying to operate highsec research POSes. This solution is untenable to the casual researcher. Without a clear research advancement path that does not hinder dramatically the player, that functionality is lost.
This expansion seems like the best expansion in years, but we have to think through some of the concequences of the impending new player swarm.
Firstly i agree with your points.
Secondly i HOPE that these problems will emerge..
Why? Because it means that there really WILL be a huge player increase, which i want, because it will force the game to evolve even at a faster rate, with such things as you just mentioned, system-wide asteroid belts, more research labs and such.
Growth is good, i want EVE to grow explosively this summer. \o7
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Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N. Dara Cothrom
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Posted - 2009.02.27 14:08:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Gamer4liff Edited by: Gamer4liff on 27/02/2009 13:59:04
Originally by: Khlitouris RegusII
Theres ****loads of ore in 0.0
Yeah right like people are going to mine common ores in 0.0.
Why not? If the supply of trit from empire belts is insufficient then it will be mined in 0.0. Yes it's better to mine Arkanor than Pyroxes but if you don't have access to MABC ores, or you need to build ships but you have all the Zyd/Mega you need, then lo-ends will be mined.
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N'irrti
Amarr Viziam
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Posted - 2009.02.27 14:33:00 -
[36]
Those n00bs who are able to adapt will stay.
Those who are not will whine on the forums, get smacked and ragequit, filling 4 weeks of my life with joy
So even if CCP/Atari sells 800k retail boxes, the peak of new players (those who stay longer than 6 months) will be around 10-20k max, divided on different timezones.
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Gamer4liff
Caldari Metalworks THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY
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Posted - 2009.02.27 14:40:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Gamer4liff Edited by: Gamer4liff on 27/02/2009 13:59:04
Originally by: Khlitouris RegusII
Theres ****loads of ore in 0.0
Yeah right like people are going to mine common ores in 0.0.
Why not? If the supply of trit from empire belts is insufficient then it will be mined in 0.0. Yes it's better to mine Arkanor than Pyroxes but if you don't have access to MABC ores, or you need to build ships but you have all the Zyd/Mega you need, then lo-ends will be mined.
See the thing about common ores, to my mind anyway, is that they are supposed to be common. Forcing people to go to 0.0 to mine them would be kind of counter intuitive. How long would it take for trit to overtake megacyte anyway? -----------
Originally by: CCP Whisper Deal with it.
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Demitria Fernir
Caldari Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2009.02.27 14:45:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Gamer4liff Edited by: Gamer4liff on 27/02/2009 13:59:04
Originally by: Khlitouris RegusII
Theres ****loads of ore in 0.0
Yeah right like people are going to mine common ores in 0.0.
Why not? If the supply of trit from empire belts is insufficient then it will be mined in 0.0. Yes it's better to mine Arkanor than Pyroxes but if you don't have access to MABC ores, or you need to build ships but you have all the Zyd/Mega you need, then lo-ends will be mined.
When the trit supply from empire will be insufficent, tritanium price will begin to slowly decrease.
THIS is my main. |
Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N. Dara Cothrom
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Posted - 2009.02.27 14:59:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Gamer4liff
See the thing about common ores, to my mind anyway, is that they are supposed to be common. Forcing people to go to 0.0 to mine them would be kind of counter intuitive. How long would it take for trit to overtake megacyte anyway?
Depending on what you mean by "overtake", it did so long ago. If you look at the base prices for minerals, compared to actual market prices, mega is about 1/4 the base price, trit is about 4x. By cost, trit is by far the greatest component of a T1 ship - which was not the case in the past.
As we so often hear, "deep alliance 0.0 is ssafer than hi-sec". Why then should trit, scord, etc not be mined there? Just because it isn't done so much at present doesn't mean that there's any kind of rule that it can never happen. In fact we may come to see the current situation as a temporary anomaly - that the majority of the game's trit supply comes from a small minority of the belts.
The major advantage that empire has over 0.0, as far as miners are concerned, is infrastructure. Check the map some time - the number of stations placed in 0.0 in the last year is astonishing...
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.02.27 15:04:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Gamer4liff
Originally by: Coronae Borealis Did you know that there is other regions than The Forge..?
Yeah no kidding, I haven't been to the forge in weeks. As I previously stated I live in Amarr space and it is constantly stripped bare. From what I've seen, ALL of empire space is suffering from this. Ask a miner, the ore in empire belts is negligible these days.
Ok your just trolling now. I've been in amarr space for quite a while now and there is plenty of belt ore to go around as long as you go a few jumps from the stations with the highest trit buy orders plus as other have mentioned there is ore in unlimited supplies in missions. Hell I never go to belts to mine anymoar as I can get moar ore than I can reasonably mine with 4 hulks and an orca by setting up a few missions and mining them clean. As far as available ME slots well thats just the way it goes with the ultra competitive nature of eves major producers. They fill up every slot with shuttle bpos to lock out the competition and will simply do the same if ccp adds new slots as they have done every other time ccp added some slots.
Darwin laughs at the op.
Yay! Got meh sig back! ♥ Weatherman |
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Gamer4liff
Caldari Metalworks THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY
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Posted - 2009.02.27 15:14:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Gamer4liff on 27/02/2009 15:18:02
Originally by: Zeba Ok your just trolling now. I've been in amarr space for quite a while now and there is plenty of belt ore to go around as long as you go a few jumps from the stations with the highest trit buy orders plus as other have mentioned there is ore in unlimited supplies in missions.
Are you crazy? Have you seen sehmosh, azerakish, seil, sinid? All of the tash-murkon mining areas are totally destroyed. It's ridiculous how little ore is in the belts as they are so overmined. If it happened in the reasonably populated Amarr space I dare say it happens elsewhere. the new players and the demand for materials they bring will deplete even more belts like a swarm of locusts. Mission ores might be theoretically infinite, but I doubt all miners will be willing to constantly have to go through missions to get to ore. I have to ask, do you live in devoid or something? -----------
Originally by: CCP Whisper Deal with it.
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.02.27 15:20:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Gamer4liff
Originally by: Zeba Ok your just trolling now. I've been in amarr space for quite a while now and there is plenty of belt ore to go around as long as you go a few jumps from the stations with the highest trit buy orders plus as other have mentioned there is ore in unlimited supplies in missions.
Are you crazy? Have you seen sehmosh, azerakish, seil, sinid? All of the tash-murkon mining areas are totally destroyed. It's ridiculous how little ore is in belts as they are so overmined. If it happened in the reasonably populated Amarr space I dare say it can happen elsewhere, the new players and the demand for materials they bring will deplete even more belts like a swarm of locusts. Mission ores might be theoretically infinite, but I doubt all miners will be willing to constantly have to go through missions to get to ore. I have to ask, do you live in devoid or something?
I live all over the place with my 6 accounts and 18 alts so its no problem to look around empire for stuff that some would have you believe is not there. Mission ore is so easy to get at with a miner who has crap combat skills as all they have to do is find a level 2 agent and run a crap skilled droneship in and clear out the npcs in a few minutes then spend the rest of thier time mining. Plus the standings gains are helpful to get moar minerals when you refine. Like I said yor just trolling now.
Yay! Got meh sig back! ♥ Weatherman |
Gamer4liff
Caldari Metalworks THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY
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Posted - 2009.02.27 15:23:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Gamer4liff on 27/02/2009 15:23:32
Originally by: Zeba Like I said yor just trolling now.
Hurf Durf, there shouldn't have to be a workaround system to a basic gameplay tenant and I'll leave it at that. -----------
Originally by: CCP Whisper Deal with it.
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.02.27 15:28:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Gamer4liff Edited by: Gamer4liff on 27/02/2009 15:23:32
Originally by: Zeba Like I said yor just trolling now.
Hurf Durf, there shouldn't have to be a workaround system to a basic gameplay tenant and I'll leave it at that.
How is it a workaround? Do you think CCP put mineable ore into missions for the scenery value when they had scads of beautiful non-minable roids to place in them instead? Trollin' Trollin'
Yay! Got meh sig back! ♥ Weatherman |
Gamer4liff
Caldari Metalworks THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY
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Posted - 2009.02.27 15:31:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Gamer4liff on 27/02/2009 15:37:04 Edited by: Gamer4liff on 27/02/2009 15:36:49
Originally by: Zeba How is it a workaround? Do you think CCP put mineable ore into missions for the scenery value
... yes? -----------
Originally by: CCP Whisper Deal with it.
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Ms Delerium
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Posted - 2009.02.27 15:34:00 -
[46]
maybe your timezone is "bad" (you can't connect after DownTime)
now seriously, I live in Caldari Space and I can find some nice belts over Lonetrek, The Forge and such.
But obviously 2-3hours after DT... if you log in 15 hours later, then its logical they are gone.
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.02.27 15:35:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Gamer4liff
Originally by: Zeba How is it a workaround? Do you think CCP put mineable ore into missions for the scenery value
... yes?
Well I guess that answers moar than one question about your current poasting habits now.
Yay! Got meh sig back! ♥ Weatherman |
Gamer4liff
Caldari Metalworks THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY
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Posted - 2009.02.27 15:39:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Zeba
Originally by: Gamer4liff
Originally by: Zeba How is it a workaround? Do you think CCP put mineable ore into missions for the scenery value
... yes?
Well I guess that answers moar than one question about your current poasting habits now.
You are terrible, stop posting.
Fine, let mineral prices skyrocket, I'll be more than happy to make a pretty penny off the speculation.
Ugh, I don't even care anymore. -----------
Originally by: CCP Whisper Deal with it.
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.02.27 15:52:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Gamer4liff
Originally by: Zeba
Originally by: Gamer4liff
Originally by: Zeba How is it a workaround? Do you think CCP put mineable ore into missions for the scenery value
... yes?
Well I guess that answers moar than one question about your current poasting habits now.
You are terrible, stop posting.
Fine, let mineral prices skyrocket, I'll be more than happy to make a pretty penny off the speculation.
Ugh, I don't even care anymore.
Gameplay mechanics working as intended? If people are too lazy to leave the starter systems to find a full roid belt or run some lulz easy 10 minute missions to get several belts worth of ore to peacfully mine away from can flippers and hulk vacuume squads then maybe thats the price to be paid. Last time I checked CCP didn't force people to do anything that they didn't want to do so if mineral prices keep rising due to player layzness then please reap the profits by being not lazy.
Yay! Got meh sig back! ♥ Weatherman |
Kessiaan
Minmatar Army of One
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Posted - 2009.02.27 16:20:00 -
[50]
Caldari space is horribly overpopulated and has been for a while.
There's loads of ore in plenty of backwater highsec systems, especially in Amarr highsec.
As long as people continue to pile into Jita & surrounding systems like lemmings resources in that area will continue to be scarce.
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Cyonidicus
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Posted - 2009.02.27 16:27:00 -
[51]
/me stockpiles veldspar for resale after M10
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Irida Mershkov
Gallente Noir.
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Posted - 2009.02.27 16:46:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Gamer4liff Edited by: Gamer4liff on 27/02/2009 13:59:04
Originally by: Khlitouris RegusII
Theres ****loads of ore in 0.0
Yeah right like people are going to mine common ores in 0.0.
Originally by: Coronae Borealis Did you know that there is other regions than The Forge..?
Yeah no kidding, I haven't been to the forge in weeks. As I previously stated I live in Amarr space and it is constantly stripped bare. From what I've seen, ALL of empire space is suffering from this. Ask a miner, the ore in empire belts is negligible these days.
There are vast strips in Gallente space that are untouched, even more so in Minmatar space, which is the the most empty out of all Empire high-sec, alternatively, boot up some mining ops in low-sec, those belts are overflowing, aren't far from high-sec either, get some escorts in your corp.
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.02.27 16:53:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Zeba on 27/02/2009 16:53:24
Originally by: Irida Mershkov There are vast strips in Gallente space that are untouched, even more so in Minmatar space, which is the the most empty out of all Empire high-sec, alternatively, boot up some mining ops in low-sec, those belts are overflowing, aren't far from high-sec either, get some escorts in your corp.
But, but, that takes effort..
Yay! Got meh sig back! ♥ Weatherman |
Irida Mershkov
Gallente Noir.
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Posted - 2009.02.27 16:57:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Zeba Edited by: Zeba on 27/02/2009 16:53:24
Originally by: Irida Mershkov There are vast strips in Gallente space that are untouched, even more so in Minmatar space, which is the the most empty out of all Empire high-sec, alternatively, boot up some mining ops in low-sec, those belts are overflowing, aren't far from high-sec either, get some escorts in your corp.
But, but, that takes effort..
True. Haha.
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Liz Laser
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Posted - 2009.02.27 18:26:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Liz Laser on 27/02/2009 18:29:49 Almost all I do is mine. I've never had difficulty finding asteroids, even though by the time I get on (on weekdays) Europeans have had 14 hours to mine before me.
Yes, the Ombre or Kernite might be cherry picked out of 0.5 space. And the Dense Veld is gone from most high-sec systems, but to say there is nothing to mine is simply hilarious. I was in Tunturras (one or 2 jumps from Jita) and popped into the belts and found all the Veld was gone. But there were still plenty of rocks, and this was spitting distance from Jita.
I see no ore shortage, even if the population triples.
Lab and Industry slots, on the other hand... It can get tight in high sec. Although I regularly mine in low sec (yes I know it isn't profitable behavior), I really haven't browsed their queues, but if their slot queues are as unused as their belts are, then I imagine industry might just have to venture out of warm fuzzy high sec.
Oh noes, I haz to build in low-sec!
Could any low-sec industrial types comment on how empty/full the queues are there? If not, I'll take a looksie over the weekend perhaps and report back.
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soldieroffortune 258
Gallente Imperium Forces
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Posted - 2009.02.27 19:18:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Jericho thePure MOAR TARGETS.
Originally by: Xen Gin
Originally by: FOl2TY8
I know that some people like to have voluntary periods of abstinence.
Yeah, I use that excuse too.
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Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
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Posted - 2009.02.27 19:25:00 -
[57]
Edited by: Lord Fitz on 27/02/2009 19:25:57
Originally by: Glengrant Problem is academic.
CCP can easily turn a few dials and change variables. They raised office/fac/lab numbers in the past to adapt to higher player numbers.
If you look harder you'll find that solution was temporary, they then cut them into separate ME/PE/Copy slots and added the queue. Also at that time player facilities were not an option, AND they first tried raising the price. The only issue at the moment with slots is that they are too cheap, and don't increase with usage.
Quote: And lastly CCP can always just meddle with roid respawn rates.
It's the least desirable thing, because resource scarcity is very very good for the game, at least locationally scarce, there is tonnes of roids out there, they're just not all 5 jumps from Jita. Using a game mechanic to encourage people to spread out is exactly what CCP need, because otherwise they would be trying to deal with 10,000 people all in Jita.
Of course what does need changing, is that that most abundant ore in the game, is the most valuable in any static belt for all of highsec and lowsec. There once was a time where people spread out to find Omber, and Jaspet etc because they were actually worth mining. And there is a hell of a lot less of those than there is veld.
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Planks
Unjustified Ancients of MuMu
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Posted - 2009.02.27 19:27:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Gamer4liff ... the EVE population stands to jump a large amount. ...
OM NOM Nom nom
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Agent Unknown
Caldari Fist of Eargon
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Posted - 2009.02.27 20:09:00 -
[59]
inb4forum explosion and carebears and /emoragequit threads ----------------------------------- "What can go wrong, will go wrong." |
AkRoYeR
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.02.27 20:24:00 -
[60]
No.
My prediction: Day 1 of Apocrypha 40,000 + 10,000 noobs Day 2 population back to 48,000 Day 3 -2000 and continue that trend to about 1 week and than back to 37,000
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