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Rells
Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2009.03.04 09:17:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Rells on 04/03/2009 09:17:14 In the beginning the core concept of Eve was a game that was primarily focused on PvP with some scattered PvE elements to facilitate the PvP. Back in these old days CONCORD didn't exist and safety was not to be had. The game had a real sense of risk versus reward. The further you went out from the relative safety of the newbie areas, the better the rewards.
Security Status was the crack in the armor. Security status or Alignment or Rogue status, they are all slightly different flavors of the same thing. Security status was put in to provide consequence to a game where the only consequence was the ire of your neighbor. It was put in to appease the carebear sensability. However, it was to be limited in scope, and weak in enforcement outside "safe" space. But safe space started to grow.
Pirates, such as I in my early years, took advantage of the standings system. I pirated for 2 years and never went below about -2.0. The warning color was good for psychological effect. I would just simply farm a bunch of rats to get the standings back up. However, as the number of carebears grew in the game so did their financial power. Changes were demanded and granted. CONCORD became invincible and then INSTANT and invincible. Raising standings from killing rats was massively scaled back. The rise of the carebears had begun.
Content started shifting when CCP began introducing Zydrine and Megacyte in empire loot drops off rats. Before that, if you had a mining operation in a good field in 0.0, you could make a fortune after you managed to get it to market. It wouldnt be easy but could be done. CCP changed that and their "small" amounts of zydrine and megacyte turned into large amounts given that players ratted and missioned in empire in a nauseating amount.
Next came the nerfing of the lucrative 0.0 complexes that had built 0.0. Now the introduction of level 4 missions wiped out any real reason to try and make money except in the most rich areas like Delve and Venal. (Those are in 0.0 for you carebears). Exploration slammed the final nail in the coffin by offering the same opportunities regardless of sec status. No longer did you have to risk serious assets to gt serious rewards. Now other than a few promethium moons, scattered weakly throughout the galaxy, the lion's share of the reward is in high-sec farming missions and exploration complexes.
Five years later and there is little reason to go to 0.0 except to treat it as a battle arena or if you have the moxy to take one of the 2 good areas in all of 0.0. The reward has been shifted for the most part to empire. Player made kingdoms never have happened. Sovereignty has never been fixed. The corp and alliance interfaces remain a bad joke. The 0.0 space which once held the promise of vast player run galactic empires is baren. The new drone regions were a hopeless failure and interesting new warfare means are neglected.
Instead CCP has emphasized factional warfare (little more than glorified missions with amatuer PvPers) and drawn players out of 0.0. The game is now primarily a PvE game with a couple PvP elements for side entertainment.
After 3 years and beginning a corp that has accomplished the training of over 4000 pilots in PvP, I find myself looking elsewhere for PvP and conquest. To a company that will not compromise their vision for the sake of the carebears.
Eve has forsaken its promise of the PvP mecca. It is not too late to turn around but it will require a change of vision from CCP and a willingness to stick to that vision in the face of enormous carebear whines. They have to get back to implementing a vision, not responding to the whine. They have to get back to giving the players the ability to create their own content and stop catering to the desires of the PvE people.
If they don't, Eve wont die tomorrow or the next day but a slow lingering and painful death. To me, that would be a shame.
-- Signed: A 5 Year Vetran
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Myz Toyou
Mercenary Forces
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Posted - 2009.03.04 09:26:00 -
[2]
Hi Rells,
you will get flamed to death by all the pimpship pilots of Motsu but you are right.
Now give me your stuffz -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [gold]Your signature image exceeds the maximum allo |
Rells
Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2009.03.04 09:27:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Rells on 04/03/2009 09:31:04
Originally by: Myz Toyou Hi Rells,
you will get flamed to death by all the pimpship pilots of Motsu but you are right.
Now give me your stuffz
No. :) I still play every now and then.
As for the carebears flaming me, among all people on the forum here I am one of the few that really, authentically doesnt care. I have made my name in this game through my corp and I dont have anything to prove to anyone.
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4rc4ng3L
Gallente Mnemonic Industries
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Posted - 2009.03.04 09:35:00 -
[4]
Edited by: 4rc4ng3L on 04/03/2009 09:35:28 CCP is a busniess not your best friend. Apoc will bring them more shiney new subscriptions, Ambulation will bring them drasticly more... In the end, they dont really care what you think, if you decide to quit, someone will take your place.
Eve isnt going away anytime soon, and by the time it does CCP will have far more cash crops to feed off.
In the end, its their game, they can do whatever they like with it and it really doesnt matter what we think. Oddly enough, im perfectly okay with that, its a game... you should be to.
------------------------------------------ - To Jumanji, or not to Jumanji...... - |
Tzar'rim
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Posted - 2009.03.04 09:37:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Tzar''rim on 04/03/2009 09:39:04 I wholeheartedly agree with what you're saying, this game has turned into "gathering wealth the safe way while not at all having to bother with other players and being completely able to avoid them alltogether". I don't play to gather wealth, I play to interact. CCP's vision has changed and/or is mostly lost, it's been obvious for a long time now.
Self-proclaimed idiot
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Sadao
Minmatar Ammatar Free Corps
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Posted - 2009.03.04 09:38:00 -
[6]
Nice post Rells, (this is the former Dumus BTW.)
Its not all bad mate, I am having great fun fighting Electus Matari. Theres fun to be had. You just need to look for it.
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Rells
Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2009.03.04 09:38:00 -
[7]
Originally by: 4rc4ng3L Edited by: 4rc4ng3L on 04/03/2009 09:35:28 CCP is a busniess not your best friend. Apoc will bring them more shiney new subscriptions, Ambulation will bring them drasticly more... In the end, they dont really care what you think, if you decide to quit, someone will take your place.
Eve isnt going away anytime soon, and by the time it does CCP will have far more cash crops to feed off.
In the end, its their game, they can do whatever they like with it and it really doesnt matter what we think. Oddly enough, im perfectly okay with that, its a game... you should be to.
When a business sells out their principles and vision to capture low quality subscriptions they are no better than a common *****.
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Tzar'rim
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Posted - 2009.03.04 09:40:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Rells
Originally by: 4rc4ng3L Edited by: 4rc4ng3L on 04/03/2009 09:35:28 CCP is a busniess not your best friend. Apoc will bring them more shiney new subscriptions, Ambulation will bring them drasticly more... In the end, they dont really care what you think, if you decide to quit, someone will take your place.
Eve isnt going away anytime soon, and by the time it does CCP will have far more cash crops to feed off.
In the end, its their game, they can do whatever they like with it and it really doesnt matter what we think. Oddly enough, im perfectly okay with that, its a game... you should be to.
When a business sells out their principles and vision to capture low quality subscriptions they are no better than a common *****.
Yes but they do rake in the cash, short term.
Self-proclaimed idiot
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Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2009.03.04 09:40:00 -
[9]
Omg I agree with a Rells whine thread.
I gotta say, CCP's intentions are good, it is just that if they make huge changes to 0.0 and mess it up, it will destroy the 0.0 end-game and CCP really cherishes their sandbox 0.0 endgame. The reasons for average joe player to even think about venturing into 0.0 are very low which is sad.
Come up with some good, well thought out ideas or join the CCP staff, those are the best options if you really want to change the state of the game.
-- Signed: A 5 Year Vetran
Originally by: CCP Whisper So you're going to have to do some actual thinking with regards to hull components and their capabilities instead of copying some cookie-cutter setup. Cry some more.
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4rc4ng3L
Gallente Mnemonic Industries
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Posted - 2009.03.04 09:41:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Rells
Originally by: 4rc4ng3L Edited by: 4rc4ng3L on 04/03/2009 09:35:28 CCP is a busniess not your best friend. Apoc will bring them more shiney new subscriptions, Ambulation will bring them drasticly more... In the end, they dont really care what you think, if you decide to quit, someone will take your place.
Eve isnt going away anytime soon, and by the time it does CCP will have far more cash crops to feed off.
In the end, its their game, they can do whatever they like with it and it really doesnt matter what we think. Oddly enough, im perfectly okay with that, its a game... you should be to.
When a business sells out their principles and vision to capture low quality subscriptions they are no better than a common *****.
Well then why dont you just start a tread titled "CCP is a *****" cos clearly your just ****ed and dont want the truth.
------------------------------------------ - To Jumanji, or not to Jumanji...... - |
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Ancy Denaries
Caldari Solaris Operations
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Posted - 2009.03.04 09:43:00 -
[11]
Wormholes do however require a team effort, albeit a PvE one. At least it's a step in the right direction. Other than that, I agree with your sentiments, Rells. ----- Why doesn't anyone ever read the forums before posting? EVE is a game of adaptation and planning. Adapt or die. |
Rells
Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2009.03.04 09:43:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Tzar'rim
Originally by: Rells
Originally by: 4rc4ng3L Edited by: 4rc4ng3L on 04/03/2009 09:35:28 CCP is a busniess not your best friend. Apoc will bring them more shiney new subscriptions, Ambulation will bring them drasticly more... In the end, they dont really care what you think, if you decide to quit, someone will take your place.
Eve isnt going away anytime soon, and by the time it does CCP will have far more cash crops to feed off.
In the end, its their game, they can do whatever they like with it and it really doesnt matter what we think. Oddly enough, im perfectly okay with that, its a game... you should be to.
When a business sells out their principles and vision to capture low quality subscriptions they are no better than a common *****.
Yes but they do rake in the cash, short term.
It must be the fact that I am 38 and not from the newer generation. When I grew up, honor, ethics, integrity, and principles were not seen as obstacles. We are in the midst of the "ME" generation I suppose but it is a generation that has lost the ability to think and reason rationally. They emote but they dont consider. They rant but don't calculate. They want it all now and cant see the long term impact of their foolish decisions.
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Rells
Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2009.03.04 09:45:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Ancy Denaries Wormholes do however require a team effort, albeit a PvE one. At least it's a step in the right direction. Other than that, I agree with your sentiments, Rells.
Listen to what you just said. "A PvE Effort" I rest my case. Its gone so far that poeple accept it as normal. No one seems to remember when players warned of this years ago and were flamed out of town and laughed at for anticipating something so stupid.
They were all right.
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4rc4ng3L
Gallente Mnemonic Industries
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Posted - 2009.03.04 09:45:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Rells
Originally by: Tzar'rim
Originally by: Rells
Originally by: 4rc4ng3L Edited by: 4rc4ng3L on 04/03/2009 09:35:28 CCP is a busniess not your best friend. Apoc will bring them more shiney new subscriptions, Ambulation will bring them drasticly more... In the end, they dont really care what you think, if you decide to quit, someone will take your place.
Eve isnt going away anytime soon, and by the time it does CCP will have far more cash crops to feed off.
In the end, its their game, they can do whatever they like with it and it really doesnt matter what we think. Oddly enough, im perfectly okay with that, its a game... you should be to.
When a business sells out their principles and vision to capture low quality subscriptions they are no better than a common *****.
Yes but they do rake in the cash, short term.
It must be the fact that I am 38 and not from the newer generation. When I grew up, honor, ethics, integrity, and principles were not seen as obstacles. We are in the midst of the "ME" generation I suppose but it is a generation that has lost the ability to think and reason rationally. They emote but they dont consider. They rant but don't calculate. They want it all now and cant see the long term impact of their foolish decisions.
So really your issues are more your outlook on the masses and infact have nothing to do with eve, but you just rather use it as a basis for your rant on society...
------------------------------------------ - To Jumanji, or not to Jumanji...... - |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.03.04 09:48:00 -
[15]
Heck, when I started, I pondered going into 0.0 sooner rather than later, and became what you would call a "carebear" simply because there was no serious incentive to leave highsec at all. I totally agree with Rells on this one, CCP dropped the ball... hard.
_ Create a character || Fit a ship || Get some ISK |
Rells
Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2009.03.04 09:48:00 -
[16]
Originally by: 4rc4ng3L
So really your issues are more your outlook on the masses and infact have nothing to do with eve, but you just rather use it as a basis for your rant on society...
No. You drove the conversation there. My OP was pretty clearly and unequivocally about Eve Online. You then implied that selling out your principles to be a ***** was ok and so I responded to your comment. But perhaps I am being unfair on you. Perhaps you dont know what principles are.
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Tzar'rim
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Posted - 2009.03.04 09:51:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Tzar''rim on 04/03/2009 09:52:15 I'm 38 as well (39 in a month.... close to the big 4!) and I agree with you. But in every corporation there's the 'managers' and 'marketeers' without any form of intellect (apart from how to get rich real fast) who will come up with short term plans so they get lots of bonuses short term and then go somewhere else when the crap (obviously) goes wrong. And STILL these people are employed and believed. Guess how all this banking recession started.
I have been saying for a long while now that CCP has lots it's bite; most of the original DEVS (the ones with vision) have moved on elsewhere or on to other projects. They have been replaced with people who don't have that initial bite (either through ignorance or on purpose, rememeber that DEV that stated that high sec wardeccing is griefing?). They've been working on this thing for well over 10 years now and they just can't be bothered too much. All they now want is a nice subscription base so they can use it as a stepping stone, all these changes which people are so happy with are WRONG, because people most of the time don't know what they want or what's right.
Quote: "do you want free stuff and be invincible?" yeah sure "do you want instant travel?" yeah sure "do you want no death penalties whatesoever and things made easy for you so you can get the uber sword of pwnage without effort" yeah sure
Hey, why am I bored with your game all of a sudden!?
People are stupid and want the wrong things, cause they want results without effort, interaction or contest. That's what WOW is based on and that's where EVE is shifting towards more and more.
Self-proclaimed idiot
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.03.04 09:52:00 -
[18]
The funny thing is, CCP could easily make it so that ALL of lowsec and 0.0 is much more enticing than highsec... but they simply refuse to do it.
_ Create a character || Fit a ship || Get some ISK |
4rc4ng3L
Gallente Mnemonic Industries
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Posted - 2009.03.04 09:54:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Rells
Originally by: 4rc4ng3L
So really your issues are more your outlook on the masses and infact have nothing to do with eve, but you just rather use it as a basis for your rant on society...
No. You drove the conversation there. My OP was pretty clearly and unequivocally about Eve Online. You then implied that selling out your principles to be a ***** was ok and so I responded to your comment. But perhaps I am being unfair on you. Perhaps you dont know what principles are.
Perhaps you need to know what a game is... maybe im wrong but your double my age yet seem to have half the common sense, generally in life if your not happy with something, you stop what your doing and find something new. Has eve changed, completely 100%, i'v played as long as you have, most of us however have changed with the game, thats why we're still here. Personally, if i got to the stage of annoyance with eve that your in.... i'd simply leave ------------------------------------------ - To Jumanji, or not to Jumanji...... - |
Rells
Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2009.03.04 09:54:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Akita T The funny thing is, CCP could easily make it so that ALL of lowsec and 0.0 is much more enticing than highsec... but they simply refuse to do it.
Yes. And they could refocus development efforts on the PvP aspects of the game but they refuse to do that as well. Instead they work on PvE stuff like wormholes and fluff like tech 3.
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TimMc
Gallente The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates
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Posted - 2009.03.04 09:57:00 -
[21]
I joined with Revelations, so cannot speak about the changes from beginning to now. Everyone will agree that CCP would not have nearly as many subs if it stayed as hardcore as the beginning, people need to be brought in safely and then nudged into the danger and fun.
However, there is not nearly as much nudging as there needs to be. Its far more money for random grunts to stay in empire, doing level 4s. Low sec and nullsec have become battlezones, and the only reason to live there is for the constant access to PvP.
imo wormholes should never appear in high sec, npc corps should get taxed/able to war dec, and all level 4s in high sec should have negative quality (positive quality in lowsec, 20 quality in 0.0 only).
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Rells
Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2009.03.04 09:59:00 -
[22]
Originally by: 4rc4ng3L
Originally by: Rells
Originally by: 4rc4ng3L
So really your issues are more your outlook on the masses and infact have nothing to do with eve, but you just rather use it as a basis for your rant on society...
No. You drove the conversation there. My OP was pretty clearly and unequivocally about Eve Online. You then implied that selling out your principles to be a ***** was ok and so I responded to your comment. But perhaps I am being unfair on you. Perhaps you dont know what principles are.
Perhaps you need to know what a game is... maybe im wrong but your double my age yet seem to have half the common sense, generally in life if your not happy with something, you stop what your doing and find something new. Has eve changed, completely 100%, i'v played as long as you have, most of us however have changed with the game, thats why we're still here. Personally, if i got to the stage of annoyance with eve that your in.... i'd simply leave
You are a child with no perspective on life. The concept of a vision and principle clearly hasn't been taught to you. The notion that it is possible to be successful and stick to one's principles and vision is something that is taught to you youngsters as NOT being possible. You are the "ME and NOW" generation. A generation brought up on TV and video games rather than real world experience.
The idea that the OP is directed to HELP Eve Online didnt even occur to you because you see things through the "ME" filter. "Common Sense", you will find, largely depends on your point of view. Your generation finds it common sense to get everything now and for free, while I find that stupidity and lunacy.
Go out and get some life expereince and then you will see that vision, principle and integrity are more valuable that commercial things.
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Thuranni
B and D
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Posted - 2009.03.04 10:01:00 -
[23]
eve is dying
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Rells
Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2009.03.04 10:01:00 -
[24]
Originally by: TimMc I joined with Revelations, so cannot speak about the changes from beginning to now. Everyone will agree that CCP would not have nearly as many subs if it stayed as hardcore as the beginning, people need to be brought in safely and then nudged into the danger and fun.
No I will NOT agree with that. Just because there is a proven market for chocolate doesnt mean there is no market at all for vanila. There are dozens of PvE games to be had, we dont need to turn Eve into yet another. There are THOUSANDS of 0.0 players that are now gone because of what I have described. Just because they were replaced with thousands of carebears doesnt mean they didnt exist in the first place.
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Bongodan
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Posted - 2009.03.04 10:02:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Bongodan on 04/03/2009 10:02:57 As a new player i can't really know how the game played in "old times". But i can definitely see this problem anyway. From what i've gathered most people go to lowsec and 0.0 to kill and get killed, then once they need to get more money they run missions in high sec for a while to fill their wallet. CCP should make more stuff only available in low-sec and 0.0.
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TimMc
Gallente The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates
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Posted - 2009.03.04 10:03:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Thuranni eve is dying
lol I think this is more of a "CCP sold their souls" thread.
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Reven Cordelle
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2009.03.04 10:03:00 -
[27]
Oh look, An "EVE IS DYING" whine thread.
How common.
Oh and by the way - The player count on EVE has drastically risen since all of those changes you've mentioned took place, therefore if anything - EVE is doing quite the opposite of dying.
You might as well leave. I doubt CCP will care. 5 year veteran or not, you pay the same amount as a newb that would take your place.
Oh and your stuff, contract it to me.
-- Signed: A 1 year newb looking forward to Apocrypha.
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4rc4ng3L
Gallente Mnemonic Industries
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Posted - 2009.03.04 10:04:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Rells
Originally by: 4rc4ng3L
Originally by: Rells
Originally by: 4rc4ng3L
So really your issues are more your outlook on the masses and infact have nothing to do with eve, but you just rather use it as a basis for your rant on society...
No. You drove the conversation there. My OP was pretty clearly and unequivocally about Eve Online. You then implied that selling out your principles to be a ***** was ok and so I responded to your comment. But perhaps I am being unfair on you. Perhaps you dont know what principles are.
Perhaps you need to know what a game is... maybe im wrong but your double my age yet seem to have half the common sense, generally in life if your not happy with something, you stop what your doing and find something new. Has eve changed, completely 100%, i'v played as long as you have, most of us however have changed with the game, thats why we're still here. Personally, if i got to the stage of annoyance with eve that your in.... i'd simply leave
You are a child with no perspective on life. The concept of a vision and principle clearly hasn't been taught to you. The notion that it is possible to be successful and stick to one's principles and vision is something that is taught to you youngsters as NOT being possible. You are the "ME and NOW" generation. A generation brought up on TV and video games rather than real world experience.
The idea that the OP is directed to HELP Eve Online didnt even occur to you because you see things through the "ME" filter. "Common Sense", you will find, largely depends on your point of view. Your generation finds it common sense to get everything now and for free, while I find that stupidity and lunacy.
Go out and get some life expereince and then you will see that vision, principle and integrity are more valuable that commercial things.
Just because im younger than you dont mistake me for simple.
And to be perfectly honest im not at all interested in your warped vision of the 'current generation' so lets keep it on topic and agree to disagree. ------------------------------------------ - To Jumanji, or not to Jumanji...... - |
Rells
Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2009.03.04 10:06:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Reven Cordelle Oh look, An "EVE IS DYING" whine thread.
How common.
Oh and by the way - The player count on EVE has drastically risen since all of those changes you've mentioned took place, therefore if anything - EVE is doing quite the opposite of dying.
You might as well leave. I doubt CCP will care. 5 year veteran or not, you pay the same amount as a newb that would take your place.
Oh and your stuff, contract it to me.
-- Signed: A 1 year newb looking forward to Apocrypha.
First of all, I wouldn't give you the sweat off my balls.
Second of all, stay in highsec where you can hide behind your mommy's skirts bcause its carebears like you that are so fun to kill and send crying.
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Karlemgne
Tides Of War
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Posted - 2009.03.04 10:07:00 -
[30]
As a vet of 3 years I've but one thing to say to you.
Your stuff. Can I have it?
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