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Dasfry
Caldari Demio's Corporation 101010 Alliance
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Posted - 2009.03.07 21:15:00 -
[1]
Supply N Demand - quick look how Skill requirements effects on Demand
On the Jita market looking at Social Adaptation Chip's
In particular the
Social Adaptation Chip Basic (+3) vs Social Adaptation Chip Standard (+4)
In this i'm not discussing the attribute difference but rather the price difference
The Social Adaptation Chip basic implant that gives a plus 3 bonus is selling for approx $6 million isk, twice the cost of a Social Adaptation Chip standard a plus 4 bonus at approx $3 million isk.
In pure terms of bonuses you would think that the +4 would sell for a higher cost than the +3. However this is not the case and we look at the next difference between them. The skill requirement to use them.
The +3 bonus only requires Cybernetics skill I, while the +4 bonus requires cybernetics skill IV.
Apparently that is the major difference keeping players from buying the larger bonus at a cheaper price.
However if a player has level 4 in cybernetics it would be a waste for them to spend there money on this particular +3 implant. They would benefit more for their isk to purchase the better +4 implant. *********** Dasfry, Director Demio's Corporation
Military Tactics |
LaVista Vista
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Posted - 2009.03.07 21:21:00 -
[2]
Compare any other implant in that way.
Picking the charisma implant for comparison is no good.
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Commander Predator
H A V O C Minor Threat.
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Posted - 2009.03.08 00:50:00 -
[3]
Whats the point of explaining this everyone knows that charisma is uselesssss
anyhow whats up das!~ Linkage |
Estel Arador
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.03.08 01:11:00 -
[4]
"Supply N Demand" with N=1 is far from convincing. Trying some more (randomly selected) items would be far more convincing.
FREE! jumpclone service - 146 locations! |
rubico1337
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Posted - 2009.03.08 03:43:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Estel Arador "Supply N Demand" with N=1 is far from convincing. Trying some more (randomly selected) items would be far more convincing.
BCU II vs pandemonium anyone?
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Kwint Sommer
Caldari XERCORE
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Posted - 2009.03.08 03:51:00 -
[6]
Originally by: rubico1337
Originally by: Estel Arador "Supply N Demand" with N=1 is far from convincing. Trying some more (randomly selected) items would be far more convincing.
BCU II vs pandemonium anyone?
One has elastic supply and is listed on the market, the other is a rare and obscure item purchased only through contracts. Ya, we've definitely a good pair to compare.
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Thoraemond
Minmatar Far Ranger
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Posted - 2009.03.08 04:04:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Kwint Sommer
Originally by: rubico1337 BCU II vs. Pandemonium anyone?
One has elastic supply and is listed on the market, the other is a rare and obscure item purchased only through contracts. Ya, we've definitely a good pair to compare.
Both "Ballistic Control System II" and "'Pandemonium' I Ballistic Enhancement" are listed on the market.
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rubico1337
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Posted - 2009.03.08 04:05:00 -
[8]
Edited by: rubico1337 on 08/03/2009 04:08:10
Originally by: Kwint Sommer
Originally by: rubico1337
Originally by: Estel Arador "Supply N Demand" with N=1 is far from convincing. Trying some more (randomly selected) items would be far more convincing.
BCU II vs pandemonium anyone?
One has elastic supply and is listed on the market, the other is a rare and obscure item purchased only through contracts. Ya, we've definitely a good pair to compare.
it is irrelevant about the supply of pandemonium, they are complementary goods and the BCU II is clearly the superior one in every way including CPU usage. therefore BCU II diminishes demand of pandemonium. in a rational world the prices should reach an equilibrium in which the price for BCU II is slightly larger than that of pandemonium regardless of its supply
but apparently everyone's mission running alt and all the ISK farmers want pandemonium for their ravens because they cant bother to get wep UG IV. why pandemonium costs 25 times more than BCU II is crazy in my mind
oh, and it does get traded on market
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Kwint Sommer
Caldari XERCORE
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Posted - 2009.03.08 04:12:00 -
[9]
My apologies, I thought your were referring to the Cosmos modules....
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Mr Horizontal
Gallente KIA Corp KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2009.03.08 11:51:00 -
[10]
+4's are largely useless.
If you have an alt, you train Cybernetics 1 and shove +3's to before any other skill. If you have a main you'll train Cybernetics V anyway, so you get the +5's. Therefore the only ones that matter are +3's and +5's.
Director | www.eve-bank.net |
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Bad Bobby
Ugly Toys Zzz
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Posted - 2009.03.09 12:05:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Mr Horizontal +4's are largely useless.
If you have an alt, you train Cybernetics 1 and shove +3's to before any other skill. If you have a main you'll train Cybernetics V anyway, so you get the +5's. Therefore the only ones that matter are +3's and +5's.
This and the fact that some people will skimp on, or completely omit, their charisma implant due to the comparitively niche nature of charisma based skills.
On the supply side you have the fact that everyone and their dog farms level 4 missions and the storylines invoked by said missions produce enough +4 implants to satisfy the small demand for them several times over.
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DeMichael Crimson
Minmatar Republic University
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Posted - 2009.03.11 04:45:00 -
[12]
First of all, the charisma implants are NOT useless, the higher the implant (+5) the faster the Leadership and Social skills will train.
2nd, this topic was about supply and demand and since most players ignore the charisma based skill groups the +3 basic charisma implant is always going to be set at a high price as long as the required skill lvl to use it is low.
The Dev's kinda messed up when they made the requirement for it only lvl 1 in Cybernetics. The attribute bonus for each implant should be the same as the required lvl in Cybernetics. For example, the +3 Basic Charisma implant should have Cybernetics skill lvl 3 required to be able to use it.
This would then cause the price to drop on the +3 basic since not that many players would be able to use them unless they trained the required lvl of Cybernetics. This would also help raise the price on the higher attribute ones.
So I'll have to agree with Dasfry that skill level requirements on a certain item does indeed affect the price and demand for that item.
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LaVista Vista
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Posted - 2009.03.11 07:10:00 -
[13]
Originally by: DeMichael Crimson
So I'll have to agree with Dasfry that skill level requirements on a certain item does indeed affect the price and demand for that item.
But in this case I'd say that's not why. The example is flawed.
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2009.03.11 08:17:00 -
[14]
Originally by: DeMichael Crimson The Dev's kinda messed up when they made the requirement for it only lvl 1 in Cybernetics. The attribute bonus for each implant should be the same as the required lvl in Cybernetics. For example, the +3 Basic Charisma implant should have Cybernetics skill lvl 3 required to be able to use it.
I totally agree with the above I just wanted to point out the actual mistake that was made. The Developer's mistake was to not reset the skill requirements on +3's to cybernetic III. There did not exist the attribute range of 1-5 previously. So having the +3's at cybernetics I wasn't a problem initially. Since then, they really should have put all implants in line with each other.
My old mercenary(PVP) corp is recruiting again. Would you believe I'm giving them my signature block for free? |
Dasfry
Caldari Demio's Corporation 101010 Alliance
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Posted - 2009.03.11 09:49:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Dasfry on 11/03/2009 09:49:13
Originally by: Estel Arador "Supply N Demand" with N=1 is far from convincing. Trying some more (randomly selected) items would be far more convincing.
There was a reason I did that. The title only has a limited amount of characters allowed.
I was at the max. The N allowed me to save 2 characters, and use it for the rest of the sentence. *********** Dasfry, Director Demio's Corporation
Military Tactics |
Dasfry
Caldari Demio's Corporation 101010 Alliance
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Posted - 2009.03.11 09:51:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Commander Predator Whats the point of explaining this everyone knows that charisma is uselesssss
anyhow whats up das!~
Whats up Commander!
Although yes charisma is considered the weaker of all the attributes. My focus was on the fact that just because something has a higher bonus does not mean people will pay more for it. *********** Dasfry, Director Demio's Corporation
Military Tactics |
Dasfry
Caldari Demio's Corporation 101010 Alliance
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Posted - 2009.03.11 09:57:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Originally by: DeMichael Crimson The Dev's kinda messed up when they made the requirement for it only lvl 1 in Cybernetics. The attribute bonus for each implant should be the same as the required lvl in Cybernetics. For example, the +3 Basic Charisma implant should have Cybernetics skill lvl 3 required to be able to use it.
I totally agree with the above I just wanted to point out the actual mistake that was made. The Developer's mistake was to not reset the skill requirements on +3's to cybernetic III. There did not exist the attribute range of 1-5 previously. So having the +3's at cybernetics I wasn't a problem initially. Since then, they really should have put all implants in line with each other.
I agree here it just seems odd, your moving along updating your implants over time. The requirements dont' change.
Then bam! when u hit the point u can afford the +4's you realize there is a 5 foot wall in your way you have to jump before u can use the damn thing. Complete surprise for some players.
However it seems like it should be a gradual stair step cybernetics skill related to the bonus u get.
Although the Advanced +6 and Elite +7's do exist they only have a Cybernetics I requirement which is odd.
*********** Dasfry, Director Demio's Corporation
Military Tactics |
Dasfry
Caldari Demio's Corporation 101010 Alliance
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Posted - 2009.03.11 10:01:00 -
[18]
Originally by: LaVista Vista
Originally by: DeMichael Crimson
So I'll have to agree with Dasfry that skill level requirements on a certain item does indeed affect the price and demand for that item.
But in this case I'd say that's not why. The example is flawed.
Its all about how you look at it. Skill requirement DOES in fact effect demand on products.
Althought it is a trade off which people are willing to the pay the different in the other attributes, here the effect on demand is clearly visiable with this particular implant. *********** Dasfry, Director Demio's Corporation
Military Tactics |
Dasfry
Caldari Demio's Corporation 101010 Alliance
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Posted - 2009.03.11 10:04:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Mr Horizontal +4's are largely useless.
If you have an alt, you train Cybernetics 1 and shove +3's to before any other skill. If you have a main you'll train Cybernetics V anyway, so you get the +5's. Therefore the only ones that matter are +3's and +5's.
I like how you point that people have alts and do purchase and consume implant products for them.
In this case, the majority of people who have alts and cash to work with do not spend the time to train Cybernetics V. So they tend to place all their demand of implants on the +3 bonus's. *********** Dasfry, Director Demio's Corporation
Military Tactics |
Dasfry
Caldari Demio's Corporation 101010 Alliance
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Posted - 2009.03.11 10:09:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Bad Bobby
Originally by: Mr Horizontal +4's are largely useless.
If you have an alt, you train Cybernetics 1 and shove +3's to before any other skill. If you have a main you'll train Cybernetics V anyway, so you get the +5's. Therefore the only ones that matter are +3's and +5's.
This and the fact that some people will skimp on, or completely omit, their charisma implant due to the comparitively niche nature of charisma based skills.
On the supply side you have the fact that everyone and their dog farms level 4 missions and the storylines invoked by said missions produce enough +4 implants to satisfy the small demand for them several times over.
Nice pointing out where the supply comes from. It appears they are mainly supplied through mission runners. From the LP stores and Mission rewards.
As far as I know they are not manufacturable, is this correct? if so where there any plans for this to be changed? And are there any other sources of supply for implants besides NPC rats? *********** Dasfry, Director Demio's Corporation
Military Tactics |
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DeMichael Crimson
Minmatar Republic University
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Posted - 2009.03.11 12:31:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Dasfry
Although the Advanced +6 and Elite +7's do exist they only have a Cybernetics I requirement which is odd.
+6 and +7 implants have either got to be rare drops from a high lvl mission or a high lvl storyline reward. Now if you could get a couple of bpc's or find a place to farm them, you'd have a supply for what I'm sure would be a quick rise in demand which would allow you to set a high price for them. As for the Cybernetics level to use them, well, that's just one of the many things that needs to be changed/fixed within this game.
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2009.03.11 17:23:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Dasfry From the LP stores and Mission rewards.
Anyone who gets attribute implants from LP Stores is a moron.
My old mercenary(PVP) corp is recruiting again. Would you believe I'm giving them my signature block for free? |
Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2009.03.11 17:38:00 -
[23]
Originally by: DeMichael Crimson +6 and +7 implants have either got to be rare drops from a high lvl mission or a high lvl storyline reward.
>sigh< Lovely how some people talk so confidently about things they have no frigging clue about. Though the +6's and +7's are in the game database the skill requirements information states that they require cybernetics 5. However to my knowledge there are no +6 or +7 implants in game. Though I'm sure you can find a motivated buyer for those if you somehow could find one. PS: Nothing wrong with being new but you can embarrass the hell out of yourself if you try to act like you are not. In the Eve community you should never engage in purely logical discussions as a: purely logical is not one of CCP's strong suits and b: the other person might just be feeding you crap so he can say, "You have been trolled." Alternately, the other person could just be a moron. Caveat Emptor!
My old mercenary(PVP) corp is recruiting again. Would you believe I'm giving them my signature block for free? |
Jagga Spikes
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.03.11 17:50:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Originally by: Dasfry From the LP stores and Mission rewards.
Anyone who gets attribute implants from LP Stores is a moron.
lets not forget this is EVE we are talking about. "stuff for free" being the norm
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Estel Arador
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.03.11 20:01:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Estel Arador "Supply N Demand" with N=1 is far from convincing. Trying some more (randomly selected) items would be far more convincing.
There was a reason I did that. The title only has a limited amount of characters allowed.
I was at the max. The N allowed me to save 2 characters, and use it for the rest of the sentence.
You seem to have missed my point. With N=1 I was referring to your sample size (ok, so I should've used lowercase n, sorry about that).
As for the character limit, next time you want to reduce 'and' to one character try using an ampersand.
FREE! jumpclone service - 146 locations! |
rubico1337
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Posted - 2009.03.11 20:27:00 -
[26]
Originally by: DeMichael Crimson
Originally by: Dasfry
Although the Advanced +6 and Elite +7's do exist they only have a Cybernetics I requirement which is odd.
+6 and +7 implants have either got to be rare drops from a high lvl mission or a high lvl storyline reward.
GET OUT
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DeMichael Crimson
Minmatar Republic University
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Posted - 2009.03.11 23:07:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Originally by: DeMichael Crimson +6 and +7 implants have either got to be rare drops from a high lvl mission or a high lvl storyline reward.
>sigh< Lovely how some people talk so confidently about things they have no frigging clue about. Though the +6's and +7's are in the game database the skill requirements information states that they require cybernetics 5. However to my knowledge there are no +6 or +7 implants in game. Though I'm sure you can find a motivated buyer for those if you somehow could find one. PS: Nothing wrong with being new but you can embarrass the hell out of yourself if you try to act like you are not. In the Eve community you should never engage in purely logical discussions as a: purely logical is not one of CCP's strong suits and b: the other person might just be feeding you crap so he can say, "You have been trolled." Alternately, the other person could just be a moron. Caveat Emptor!
Wow, the nerve of some people. My remark was placed as conjecture in the form of a question, not a statement of fact. Funny how there's always people with a chip on their shoulder who think they know everything in the game and only tend to read part of what is written and then twist it around to make themselves look better than everyone else. In the future, try to stay with the topic subject instead of taking cheap shots at people. Since you seemed to have passed over it while reading this thread, the topic is about how skill requirements of items affect supply and demand which affects price.
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Estel Arador
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.03.11 23:56:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Estel Arador on 11/03/2009 23:56:09
Originally by: DeMichael Crimson Wow, the nerve of some people. My remark was placed as conjecture in the form of a question, not a statement of fact.
Perhaps you ought to have used a different modal form. "Have got to" indicates necessity whereas you might've better chosen a modal form indicating possibility.
FREE! jumpclone service - 146 locations! |
Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2009.03.12 04:29:00 -
[29]
Originally by: DeMichael Crimson Wow, the nerve of some people.
Indeed. Shame that I've got something to back it up with. You know, like experience, knowledge, intellect. But you've got balls though. Might want to take them out of your mouth as I doubt they are yours. Originally by: DeMichael Crimson My remark was placed as conjecture in the form of a question, not a statement of fact.
Then you should have used a question mark or different word choices. And if that was all it was my apologies. However I doubt you understand the process of giving an apology or, more correctly, the mea culpa that you should have started out with. 1 - Make Statement 2 - Get corrected 3 - Fight back 4 - Get punched Or 1 - Make erroneous statement 2 - Get corrected 3 - Mea Culpa, offer correction 4 - Receive apology, gain some respect. I'm not a nice person however all things considered I'm not one to avoid mea culpa or giving people a chance. However the only chance you took was to bite and snap. Cute in puppies, not so much in humans.
My old mercenary(PVP) corp is recruiting again. Would you believe I'm giving them my signature block for free? |
LaVista Vista
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Posted - 2009.03.12 05:10:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Dasfry
Originally by: LaVista Vista
Originally by: DeMichael Crimson
So I'll have to agree with Dasfry that skill level requirements on a certain item does indeed affect the price and demand for that item.
But in this case I'd say that's not why. The example is flawed.
Its all about how you look at it. Skill requirement DOES in fact effect demand on products.
Althought it is a trade off which people are willing to the pay the different in the other attributes, here the effect on demand is clearly visiable with this particular implant.
It's like saying that a racing-car costs more because it takes more skills to drive.
Sure, everything that limits who can use it, will affect demand. But haven't you understood yet that your example is flawed?
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