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Malvaceae Veri
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Posted - 2009.03.12 11:59:00 -
[1]
I wanted to post something like this a long time ago, but a recent thread gave me the final push.
I'll try to make this post a detailed, analytical one, so it will include the flaws inherent to my idea, so please, read the whole thing.
First, I will post this under the premise that there are a lot of player that would very much like to go out into 0.0, but do not do so because (so I have heard) 0.0 is rife with huge alliance dramas and all such politics, which is something I (and those like me) detest.
The other thing that keeps most players in Empire is the (possibly mostly psychological) fear of gatecamps.
Now, I fully understand the need for gatecamps, they are "border patrols" for large alliances that need to defend their borders. I also understand the NBSI mentality, and the percieved need for it.
And these borders are inevitably the borders of their sovereign (sov 1-4) spaces, and should be garded (even if this results in empty 0.0 space beyond the borders that is effectively wasted).
Thus, it seems to be that sov is at least partially responsible for gatecamping. Eliminate sov, and you eliminate gatecamps (mostly).
My idea for doing this is the following: in empire-0.0 border zones, every border should get a lets say constellation-sized 0.0 space in which sov can not be claimed. Lets say they are under whatever NPC pirate faction SOV.
This way, we could have a relatively small patch of 0.0 where more "casual" (as in: those who do not want to join alliance metadrama) players can go and have "fun", with all the pro's and cons of 0.0 space, but without the NBSI gatecamps.
Yes, I already hear the "go to Providence, noob" crowd, but my idea would be to add such "non-sov" patches to _all_ border regions, not just those around CVA space.
As I see it, this could result in more players getting into 0.0, some of them eventually joining the alliances, thus resulting in more wars, thus more PVP, and this should please the hardcore alliance PVP people.
Ideally, this could trigger a lowsec-buffer 0.0 exodus, which could trigger a highsec-lowsec igration, and this is something almost all posters seem to want, as this will result in more people in the "free pvp" zone, thus more people PVPing, which is ultimately a win-win situation, isnt it?
Of course, there are several flaws with this. The territory could become a pirate heaven, recrating gatecamps all over. To counter this, we could make it so that there are a high number of empire-buffer connection points for each buffer zone, thus encreasing the strain on pirates (less ships/gate).
But even the high pirate activity could be seen as a bonus, as it would force non-pirates to go out and combat the pirates, thus more PVP. Of course, this could result in the whole alliance metadrama being replayed, only on a smaller scale.
Then, there is the question of how to stop the original alliances from camping the entry points, thus claiming de facto sov. This could be achieved by either making the buffer systems not worth having (low value minerals, poor moons), or making only one buffer-"true" 0.0 jumppoint per buffer zone, thus they can choke that up with gatecamps all they want.
Then, there is the question of how to create these regions. Ideally, they could be "carved out" from currently claimed systems, thus forcing border alliances into deeper 0.0, and so forth, which means a new war, which, again, is win-win (PVPers get PVP, industrialists get demand, players get fun)
Let me end this long post with saying that I do _not_ want a "safe" 0.0 region. I am all for making it pro-PVP and all that, but at the same time, making it open for players who do not wish to belong to the backstabbing-gatecamping-WWI-style POS-siege-primary=instapop world of the big alliances of 0.0
I am open for all constructive posts. Please help me refine this idea into something you think would work.
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Malvaceae Veri
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Posted - 2009.03.12 12:00:00 -
[2]
tldr: non-claimable pockets of 0.0 on empire borders, less gatecamps, less alliance drama, more fun
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Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2009.03.12 12:02:00 -
[3]
Quote: Eliminate sov, and you eliminate gatecamps (mostly).
I don't think I've ever been through an empire->0.0 pipe camped by a sovereignty claiming entity. -
DesuSigs |
Freyya
GeoCorp. Paxton Federation
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Posted - 2009.03.12 12:11:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Freyya on 12/03/2009 12:17:27
Originally by: Crumplecorn
Quote: Eliminate sov, and you eliminate gatecamps (mostly).
I don't think I've ever been through an empire->0.0 pipe camped by a sovereignty claiming entity.
Quoting for semi truth. Alot are sovclaiming entities but it is almost never done to protect in the name of said sov.. Most gatecamps are not set up to defend claimed space, they're set up to catch targets and juicy stuffs and either some random gang decides to ransom a chokepoint untill it is busted by some other gang or the claiming entity busts and continues.
Gatecamps are not neccesarily to keep people out of your space but moreso to give some means of pvp/timekilling activity or moneymaking with the loot that drops.
TBH your idea of a bufferzone would never work. It's mostly a dead horse beaten over and over again unfortunatly. Everywhere where there is lawless space there can be a gatecamp, hell even in lowsec there are gatecamps. Point is; Where people travel,thar be camp beyond them gates. ___________
NOW COLLECTING ISD AND CCP AUTOGRAPHS It'll be worth something someday. -Rauth
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Malvaceae Veri
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Posted - 2009.03.12 12:15:00 -
[5]
Umm, I really did not want the gatecamp issue to be tha cardinal one of my post. That would be the "we would like 0.0, but none of the alliance drama, thank you" bit.
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Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2009.03.12 12:17:00 -
[6]
No bubbles in NPC space would probably get a bunch of people out there (or drive a bunch of people out ). Nobody should be able to "own" that territory anyway.
But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started. |
Khandara Seraphim
StarHunt Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2009.03.12 12:18:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Malvaceae Veri Umm, I really did not want the gatecamp issue to be tha cardinal one of my post. That would be the "we would like 0.0, but none of the alliance drama, thank you" bit.
welcome to NPC 0.0, where the pirate factions hold sov and the big alliances can't put up cynojammers
___________
Originally by: CCP Whisper Boo hoo. Cry some more. |
Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2009.03.12 12:19:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Freyya Alot are sovclaiming entities but it is almost never done to protect in the name of said sov.. Most gatecamps are not set up to defend claimed space, they're set up to catch targets and juicy stuffs and either some random gang decides to ransom a chokepoint untill it is busted by some other gang or the claiming entity busts and continues.
Gatecamps are not neccesarily to keep people out of your space but moreso to give some means of pvp/timekilling activity or moneymaking with the loot that drops.
Yes, that's what I meant to imply, I should have been clearer. I've seen many camps of people who happen to be in alliances, but it's those people who are camping for their own benefit, rather than an alliance op for the sake of protecting space. -
DesuSigs |
Freyya
GeoCorp. Paxton Federation
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Posted - 2009.03.12 12:21:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Freyya on 12/03/2009 12:26:15
Originally by: Malvaceae Veri Umm, I really did not want the gatecamp issue to be tha cardinal one of my post. That would be the "we would like 0.0, but none of the alliance drama, thank you" bit.
As i've updated in my previous post but will clarify: You already have 0.0 without the alliance drama. All 0.0 is for you to enter and you can just ignore the alliances, big difference with your wish is that one pocket has more people hunting strangers than others be they part of the sov claiming entity or just a random ganksquad. Basicly you need a pocket of 0.0 without the people hunting other people, which is ofcourse never going to happen.
I'll restate the main point:
Where people travel, thar be camps/ganksquads beyond them gates. Wether they are part of a sov claiming alliance or not. ___________
NOW COLLECTING ISD AND CCP AUTOGRAPHS It'll be worth something someday. -Rauth
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Marielle TueurDeCoeur
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Posted - 2009.03.12 12:21:00 -
[10]
Seriously, just go find 0.0 space that is NRDS, for example, Providence.
0.0 isn't as "dangerous" as you might think, honestly. There are a LOT of systems out there where you won't find anyone else in local, so you can rat in relative peace.
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Jamyl TashMurkon
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.03.12 12:49:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Marielle TueurDeCoeur Seriously, just go find 0.0 space that is NRDS, for example, Providence.
Providence is the only NRDS 0.0 iirc Morsus Mihi has NERDS policy out of its sov...but that implies how? so GO TO PROVIDENCE NOOB !
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Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N. Dara Cothrom
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Posted - 2009.03.12 12:56:00 -
[12]
The buffer you describe already exists. It's called lo-sec.
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Chinwe Rhei
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Posted - 2009.03.12 12:57:00 -
[13]
Erm unless i'm reading this wrong these type of regions already exist ?
As far as i know you already can't claim SoV in places like Syndicate or Greater Wildlands and a few other 0.0 regions that belong to NPC factions and where everyone can dock to NPC stations.
Ofcourse groups will still say they own the place and shoot at you, but the SoV owner is some NPC group or pirate faction.
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Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2009.03.12 13:05:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Wet Ferret on 12/03/2009 13:04:56
Originally by: Chinwe Rhei Erm unless i'm reading this wrong these type of regions already exist ?
As far as i know you already can't claim SoV in places like Syndicate or Greater Wildlands and a few other 0.0 regions that belong to NPC factions and where everyone can dock to NPC stations.
Ofcourse groups will still say they own the place and shoot at you, but the SoV owner is some NPC group or pirate faction.
And? Those pirate factions don't stop people from putting bubbles up all over the gates and stations and camping people in/out as they please. It's just as much of a deathtrap despite being slightly more hospitable.
But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started. |
Terry Cheng
Caldari The X-Trading Company RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.03.12 14:44:00 -
[15]
The reason for 0.0 is -> you can shoot anyone or anything you like.
No bubbles? That space exists, it is called lowsec and honestly more dangerous than 0.0
No Sov? -> Go to Syndicate No NBSI? -> Go to Prov
Want relative Safety in 0.0? Join a 0.0 Alliance or become a resident of one of the 0.0 Alliances.
Want the most safety you can get -> Stay in Empire...
It is all there, no real reason to fix something that is not broken... -------------
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Tallaran Kouros
Caldari Arcane Alliance
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Posted - 2009.03.12 14:49:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Malvaceae Veri
My idea for doing this is the following: in empire-0.0 border zones, every border should get a lets say constellation-sized 0.0 space in which sov can not be claimed. Lets say they are under whatever NPC pirate faction SOV.
This way, we could have a relatively small patch of 0.0 where more "casual" (as in: those who do not want to join alliance metadrama) players can go and have "fun", with all the pro's and cons of 0.0 space, but without the NBSI gatecamps.
The bubbles aren't really to defend sov though, they are there to get kills.
I understand what you are trying to do, but this wouldn't stop me and some friends sitting with interdictors looking for easy kills.
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Gamer4liff
Caldari Metalworks THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY
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Posted - 2009.03.12 14:51:00 -
[17]
Who needs 0.0 when wormhole space is just a hole away? -----------
Originally by: CCP Whisper Deal with it.
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Ralatina
Minmatar Another Market Alt Corp
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Posted - 2009.03.12 14:56:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Malvaceae Veri Umm, I really did not want the gatecamp issue to be tha cardinal one of my post. That would be the "we would like 0.0, but none of the alliance drama, thank you" bit.
NPC 0.0 space :)
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John Hollow
Minmatar Afterisk
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Posted - 2009.03.12 15:07:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Jamyl TashMurkon
Originally by: Marielle TueurDeCoeur Seriously, just go find 0.0 space that is NRDS, for example, Providence.
Providence is the only NRDS 0.0 iirc Morsus Mihi has NERDS policy out of its sov...but that implies how? so GO TO PROVIDENCE NOOB !
Great Wildlands is Not Red Don't shoot as well. So far my experience there has been rather positive. Was floating outside a station talking to a guy in a carrier that could eat my cruiser in one bite the other day.
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Doctor Penguin
Amarr Shadow Command Tenth Legion
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Posted - 2009.03.12 15:19:00 -
[20]
If this post boils down to "more NPC 0.0 space", I am all for this. NPC 0.0 is getting kinda crowded. ________________________________________________
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Malvaceae Veri
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Posted - 2009.03.12 16:41:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Terry Cheng
Want relative Safety in 0.0? Join a 0.0 Alliance or become a resident of one of the 0.0 Alliances.
Want the most safety you can get -> Stay in Empire...
Really now, did you read what I wrote?
I stated that what would be welcome would be 0.0 without the alliance drama. I even destincitvely stated that I do _not_ want "safe" 0.0
But anyway. Seems like the actually constructive responses point out that 0.0 is mostly a "here be dragons" thing in regards of hostility. Thus, I encourage all of you 0.0 dwellers to come out and promote 0.0, and dispell the myth that it is a place where three-jawed space mutated battleships hunt for noobs.
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Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N. Dara Cothrom
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Posted - 2009.03.12 16:47:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Gamer4liff Who needs 0.0 when wormhole space is just a hole away?
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Kebast
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Posted - 2009.03.12 17:15:00 -
[23]
I'd live in 0.0 if it weren't for the annoying ****ing gate camps.
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