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Sirion Fujiwara
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Posted - 2009.03.13 16:37:00 -
[1]
Scanning was nice and easy before Apocrypha - as it should be. It is hardly the core of the game, more like an add-on feature for the core of the game (which is blowing stuff up). The old system worked perfectly and logically, but now it seems things have been over complicated for no reason at all. Why do I need to sit there and fiddle around with four probes (TRI-angulation???) for half an hour to find one measly ship!? Endlessly adjusting and re-adjusting probe positions and ranges whilst trying to guess where the hell the ship is in the 'red sphere thingy' is tedious beyond anything CCP has yet come up with. Why make it tedious when it could be made fun!??? It's a bit like mining really. Could have been made fun, but actually it is just a boring pain in the arse. Sometimes you have to wonder why CCP even wastes time developing new stuff when they are just making things worse and less enjoyable.
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FOl2TY8
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2009.03.13 16:42:00 -
[2]
Actually you are completely wrong. Before scanning was like mining, train skills drop probes wait, rinse repeat. Now the more skilled you are at positioning your probes the faster the results.
---------- This post brought to you by the worst PVP'er in Eve |
Eventy One
Magellan Exploration and Survey
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Posted - 2009.03.13 16:45:00 -
[3]
No, there are two extremes in this ..
I kind of like some of the features .. ability to reuse, reconnect and move probes. The new system has some nice things, BUT I do think they've pegged it down too many notches. I feel like my skills are for nought, and I don't like the fact they've completely removed the chance-based component.
It was the chance base-component that separated the men from the boys, so-to-speak.
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Sirion Fujiwara
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Posted - 2009.03.13 16:45:00 -
[4]
Originally by: FOl2TY8 Actually you are completely wrong. Before scanning was like mining, train skills drop probes wait, rinse repeat. Now the more skilled you are at positioning your probes the faster the results.
Come on... Positioning and re-positiong probes is DULL beyond belief. Considering the complexity in the rest of the game, this is just completely ridiculous as a 'trade' or vocation.
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Bullageddon
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.03.13 16:48:00 -
[5]
My char spent 15mins training up astro and astro tri to lv1 last night.
I have never used probes before.
It took me 15mins to figure out the system and scan down my first wormhole.
Why is this so difficult for people?
I do agree with OP on the reason for needing 4 probes. Ridiculous, you only need one for proper triangulation, just like current sonar/radar. However, that would make it far too easy. === This Space For Lease or Sale. |
Abrazzar
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Posted - 2009.03.13 16:48:00 -
[6]
They didn't fix it. They improved it. Of course progressive thinking and invention might be foreign concepts to your mind, so can't blame you for being unable to grasp those concepts. -------- Ideas for: Mining
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fairimear
Gallente S.A.S Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.03.13 16:49:00 -
[7]
FOOORRRRROKIN LOVE SCANNING NOW. I can scan Absolutely anything down in under 3min. It's freaking great. LOVE CCP for this. It's the best damn feature of the patch
Bringing a type of class to PL. |
Estel Arador
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.03.13 16:50:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Sirion Fujiwara Why do I need to sit there and fiddle around with four probes (TRI-angulation???)
Note that current-day GPS systems also need data from at least four satellites to get an accurate position. The fourth one is used to eliminate errors in the data from the first three.
FREE! jumpclone service - 146 locations! |
Ana Vyr
DB - LJ Industries
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Posted - 2009.03.13 16:51:00 -
[9]
Personally, I feel that this new system is far superior to the old one. Come on, a random chance with long wait times in between? That sucked. It was horribly dull. Not to mention, I can track down a signal in far less time now. Granted I haven't tried scanning out ships yet, so that may be a different situation.
I think that the fact that you need a bit of player skill now to keep the fiddling down to a minimum is a good mechanic. I feel more involved in the process now, and thus it's more fun for me.
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Vasta Magna
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Posted - 2009.03.13 16:51:00 -
[10]
Couldn't disagree more with OP.
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Eventy One
Magellan Exploration and Survey
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Posted - 2009.03.13 16:52:00 -
[11]
Originally by: fairimear FOOORRRRROKIN LOVE SCANNING NOW. I can scan Absolutely anything down in under 3min. It's freaking great. LOVE CCP for this. It's the best damn feature of the patch
I think this is the point exactly. Astrometrics was something people use to be committed to.
I once spent 90 minutes scanning down a site that rendered 148 data cores (over 100M in loot). It was that investment of time that kept people away / just as it kept people committed.
But by dumbing down astrometrics for the attention-deficit crowd, it hasn't gotten richer - its gotten poorer.
I agree some improvements have been made, but I regret CCP felt the need to target the lowest-common denominator to do it.
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Capt Happhypants
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Posted - 2009.03.13 16:54:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Sirion Fujiwara Scanning was nice and easy before Apocrypha - as it should be. It is hardly the core of the game, more like an add-on feature for the core of the game (which is blowing stuff up). The old system worked perfectly and logically, but now it seems things have been over complicated for no reason at all. Why do I need to sit there and fiddle around with four probes (TRI-angulation???) for half an hour to find one measly ship!? Endlessly adjusting and re-adjusting probe positions and ranges whilst trying to guess where the hell the ship is in the 'red sphere thingy' is tedious beyond anything CCP has yet come up with. Why make it tedious when it could be made fun!??? It's a bit like mining really. Could have been made fun, but actually it is just a boring pain in the arse. Sometimes you have to wonder why CCP even wastes time developing new stuff when they are just making things worse and less enjoyable.
If it takes you more than 3 to 5 minutes to scan down a ship in a system then it isn't the new scanning that is the problem. Finding a worm hole is harder IMHO but still isn't difficult.
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Ginako
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Posted - 2009.03.13 16:54:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Sirion Fujiwara
Why do I need to sit there and fiddle around with four probes (TRI-angulation???)
Yeah because a triangle can't possible contain four sides *cough* pyramids *cough* --------------
Flying Minmatar is like strapping yourself to an office chair and firing Uzi's as you roll down a flight of stairs! |
Ruze
Amarr No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2009.03.13 16:55:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Bullageddon I do agree with OP on the reason for needing 4 probes. Ridiculous, you only need one for proper triangulation, just like current sonar/radar. However, that would make it far too easy.
Really?
This has been covered in a number of posts. The four probes is scientifically accurate. You *can* pin a system down with only 3, but you have to work harder at it.
Remember, 'triangulation' is what GPS systems work on Earth. When you can guesstimate one of the variables (i.e. GPS, you can make a solid guess that the user will be on the ground, thus taking out the NEED for a fourth signal), it's okay to use three. But even modern GPS usually uses four or five signals.
Sonar, obviously, wouldn't work in space, because sound doesn't travel through vacuum.
Before Wormholes
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Morlar
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Posted - 2009.03.13 16:56:00 -
[15]
Time spent in training the skills will still help...you'll have fewer deviation errors, for instance. It's a nice balance of character skill/player skill now.
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Chatte Noire
Gallente PepperPark Deep Space Operations
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Posted - 2009.03.13 16:56:00 -
[16]
Scanning out wormholes and exploration sites is extremely easy now. But that is because theyŚre persistent locations, not moving an inch.
Ship scanning is horrible, horrible (horrible). If you want to scan more mobile targets than missionrunners, be prepared to spent a lot of boring time staring at blue spheres, adjusting your probes again and again.
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Sirion Fujiwara
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Posted - 2009.03.13 16:57:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Abrazzar They didn't fix it. They improved it. Of course progressive thinking and invention might be foreign concepts to your mind, so can't blame you for being unable to grasp those concepts.
Lolz. Top marks for pointless rudeness :o) This isn't about whether it is simple or easy. It is about whether it is fun or not, and this 'progressive thinking' has in my opinion made it a lot less fun. That however... is simple....
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Ana Vyr
DB - LJ Industries
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Posted - 2009.03.13 16:57:00 -
[18]
They should have called it tetra-angulation. Best probe pattern for me has been a tetrahedron shape.
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Trebor Notlimah
Lone Star EVE Group Veni Vidi Vici
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Posted - 2009.03.13 17:00:00 -
[19]
As a long time prober -- initially I was angry over the new probe system. Initially the sight of 100's of probers passing through would crash the prices of faction and radar/magneto items and there would be way to much competition for the sites. Then I realized I could probe a radar/magneto site in under 6 minutes -- compared to the 20-30 mins it took before.
Now I've found that there are still plenty of the traditional radar/magneto sites and my sites/hr have increased amazingly. I'm still a little worried about market saturation crashing the prices tho
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NeoTheo
Federation of Freedom Fighters Aggression.
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Posted - 2009.03.13 17:00:00 -
[20]
scanning before was TOTALLY DULL, now at least i have to do something.
ship scanning maybe is nerfed in to oblivion tho. - F-OFF - ExE
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Dmian
Gallente Gallenterrorisme
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Posted - 2009.03.13 17:03:00 -
[21]
I like the new system better. ----
Originally by: Anne M. Lindbergh There is no sin punished more implacably by nature than the sin of resistance to change
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Sirion Fujiwara
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Posted - 2009.03.13 17:05:00 -
[22]
Originally by: NeoTheo scanning before was TOTALLY DULL, now at least i have to do something.
ship scanning maybe is nerfed in to oblivion tho.
Ship scanning is exactly what I am talking about.
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Marcus Xavier
Minmatar Xavier Institute for Higher Learning
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Posted - 2009.03.13 17:06:00 -
[23]
By belly-aching, You've only confirmed that the prior system was far too easy when scanning for ships. I could find a Domi in deadspace within a few minutes using a covert ops and a deep space probe. I applaud CCP for forcing you to work for your dinner. ---------------- Mutatis Mutandis |
Ginako
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Posted - 2009.03.13 17:07:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Sirion Fujiwara
Originally by: NeoTheo scanning before was TOTALLY DULL, now at least i have to do something.
ship scanning maybe is nerfed in to oblivion tho.
Ship scanning is exactly what I am talking about.
You should have specified that earlier. Would've saved you lots of fire & pitchfork replies. --------------
Flying Minmatar is like strapping yourself to an office chair and firing Uzi's as you roll down a flight of stairs! |
Sirion Fujiwara
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Posted - 2009.03.13 17:08:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Sirion Fujiwara on 13/03/2009 17:09:19
Originally by: Ginako
Originally by: Sirion Fujiwara
Originally by: NeoTheo scanning before was TOTALLY DULL, now at least i have to do something.
ship scanning maybe is nerfed in to oblivion tho.
Ship scanning is exactly what I am talking about.
You should have specified that earlier. Would've saved you lots of fire & pitchfork replies.
I actually mentioned that I was scanning for a ship in the initial post, but true to form, EVE forum readers never read the posts properly
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Armoured C
Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Aggression.
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Posted - 2009.03.13 17:08:00 -
[26]
op obvisouly hasnt scaned a day in his life beofre new scanning effects... the 4 hour wasiting because of luck and those STUPID mid warp bookmarks than needed to be right
op can just STFU until he knows what he is talking about
This week EvE Life: Wormhole Wars 01/Feb
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Ruze
Amarr No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2009.03.13 17:09:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Ginako
Originally by: Sirion Fujiwara
Originally by: NeoTheo scanning before was TOTALLY DULL, now at least i have to do something.
ship scanning maybe is nerfed in to oblivion tho.
Ship scanning is exactly what I am talking about.
You should have specified that earlier. Would've saved you lots of fire & pitchfork replies.
Definitely. You can modify the mechanics for ship scanning, without completely busting the good scanning system they have now.
I can understand players who dislike change and admit it. I will continue to heckle players who try to mask their dislike for change with arguments of 'ease' or 'superiority'.
Before Wormholes
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War Fairy
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Posted - 2009.03.13 17:09:00 -
[28]
The old system was a brainless slot machine. Pure chance based. Pull the lever and see if you got a hit. Nope? Pull the lever again. Nothing I did increased the chances. I'd play my DS while I scanned. That's the sign of a broken design.
The new system is more art. It takes player skill strongly into account. If you know what you're doing it's vastly quicker than the old system. it's more fun and interactive.
Thank you CCP for the scanning changes! Thank you very very much!
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R0ot
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.03.13 17:10:00 -
[29]
Oh noes probing might actually take a bit of effort now /o\
<11cflux> OTH, pandemic can only wield 40 dreads and 10 support. |
Sirion Fujiwara
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Posted - 2009.03.13 17:11:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Armoured C op obvisouly hasnt scaned a day in his life beofre new scanning effects... the 4 hour wasiting because of luck and those STUPID mid warp bookmarks than needed to be right
op can just STFU until he knows what he is talking about
Lol!! What an angry little boy you are. I guess you have your reasons...
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kaplowwwwwwwwwwwww
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Posted - 2009.03.13 17:13:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Bullageddon My char spent 15mins training up astro and astro tri to lv1 last night.
I have never used probes before.
It took me 15mins to figure out the system and scan down my first wormhole.
Why is this so difficult for people?
I do agree with OP on the reason for needing 4 probes. Ridiculous, you only need one for proper triangulation, just like current sonar/radar. However, that would make it far too easy.
WRONG four probes is proper triangulation IN three dimensions. Idiots only think it's 3. 3 gives you a accurate reading on a two dimensional plane.
1 probe tells you if it's around you. 2 will then tell you if it's between them. You can Technically locate something in this manner in a single axis. 3 allows you to reach single axis triangulation.
you can reach the objects effective location this way. AND IF IT IS NOT TO FAR ON A 3RD AXIS YOU CAN FIND THE OBJECT FAIRLY EASY THIS WAY. It's probably 50%-70% that you can find most object in eve this way.
Now the problem is technically you have little field of depth in this manner. In theory you could be in the correct position just a million miles below it or 1 mile below it you would not know. add a 4th probe below or above and you will then get your correct reading.
Triangulation is a term that applies to multiple point to axis collation. you effectively want to create a pyramid. but you only need to add the 4th probe to the mix once you have a relative location through 3 probe triangulation.
Sonar and radar work EXACTLY THE SAME WAY. Sub's tow sonar pod so the can achieve multi point triangulation And radar sights do the same.
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Bullageddon
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.03.13 17:13:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Ana Vyr They should have called it tetra-angulation. Best probe pattern for me has been a tetrahedron shape.
People go blank-eye if you say that word.
Just say pyramid and they totally get it. === This Space For Lease or Sale. |
Armoured C
Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Aggression.
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Posted - 2009.03.13 17:14:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Sirion Fujiwara
Originally by: Armoured C op obvisouly hasnt scaned a day in his life beofre new scanning effects... the 4 hour wasiting because of luck and those STUPID mid warp bookmarks than needed to be right
op can just STFU until he knows what he is talking about
Lol!! What an angry little boy you are. I guess you have your reasons...
lol you have no idea what scanning was like before so dont come on here going the old system was better
go take you freighter losses with you
This week EvE Life: Wormhole Wars 01/Feb
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Sawirek
Caldari BLACK BARONS
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Posted - 2009.03.13 17:15:00 -
[34]
Hey you don't need a book for playing a game anymore, so it's a great success :).
Yes there is room for improvements (more advanced filter would be nice for instance, and automatic bookmark of the pinpointed site, that would diseapear with site would also be beneficial to both players and servers, etc etc.), but overall the system is reaaaly good.
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Sirion Fujiwara
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Posted - 2009.03.13 17:16:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Armoured C
Originally by: Sirion Fujiwara
Originally by: Armoured C op obvisouly hasnt scaned a day in his life beofre new scanning effects... the 4 hour wasiting because of luck and those STUPID mid warp bookmarks than needed to be right
op can just STFU until he knows what he is talking about
Lol!! What an angry little boy you are. I guess you have your reasons...
lol you have no idea what scanning was like before so dont come on here going the old system was better
go take you freighter losses with you
What? Freighter!? Dude - you need anger management therapy! There there.....
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kaplowwwwwwwwwwwww
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Posted - 2009.03.13 17:16:00 -
[36]
ok to make this easy on the simple minded.
3 probes let you see stuff on the same or similar level to you. 4 let you see things in any level.
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Avalon Champion
Gallente Defence Evaluation Research Agency
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Posted - 2009.03.13 17:20:00 -
[37]
I think that the new scanning system is a lot better, and yes ive previously spent 3-4 hours scanning down low strength sigs.
I think the cycle times are a little too fast, but meh, im going to complain about a 4-5 second cycle.
Is this a covert whine from Ninja salvagers, that means they have to work a little harder for thier free salvage?
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Sirion Fujiwara
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Posted - 2009.03.13 17:22:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Avalon Champion I think that the new scanning system is a lot better, and yes ive previously spent 3-4 hours scanning down low strength sigs.
I think the cycle times are a little too fast, but meh, im going to complain about a 4-5 second cycle.
Is this a covert whine from Ninja salvagers, that means they have to work a little harder for thier free salvage?
No it isn't. Good guess though...
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Bullageddon
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.03.13 17:22:00 -
[39]
Originally by: kaplowwwwwwwwwwwww Sonar and radar work EXACTLY THE SAME WAY. Sub's tow sonar pod so the can achieve multi point triangulation And radar sights do the same.
Subs tow sonar pods to negate distortion due to the sub.
Multiple arrays are used for more accurate readings, however you only need one to find distance to the object... and in space, distance from point of origin to point of anomaly is all that matters.
And sonar/radar works on a 3D plane, not 2. The scan wave is sent out in an ever increasing cone/sphere from point of origin, not a 2d circle/triangle. === This Space For Lease or Sale. |
General Melchett
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Posted - 2009.03.13 17:25:00 -
[40]
Edited by: General Melchett on 13/03/2009 17:26:29
Originally by: Bullageddon I do agree with OP on the reason for needing 4 probes. Ridiculous, you only need one for proper triangulation, just like current sonar/radar. However, that would make it far too easy.
That would be true if each probe told you the range and direction of an object, but each probe only tells you the range to the object. So if you think about that then the current system is accurate.
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Optical Illusion
Minmatar Templars of Space Delinquent Habits
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Posted - 2009.03.13 17:30:00 -
[41]
I always enjoyed scanning out plex's before the patch, i felt it was just as profitale (sometimes more) as ratting in 0.0 in an isk/hour ratio, but alot more interesting.
I really like the new scanning system for the scaning of plex's, however...
I am a PvP'er, and i only PvE to buy ships. i used to be able to scan out a ship in a system we were camping in under a min, as i took the time to make scanning spots between celestials ect so i only ever had to drop a 5 au probe.
This new stystem has destroyed ship probing, and you will now be lucky to probe a ship out thats stationary in under 3 mins. Thats not to mention most 0.0 pilots will have the brains to make new safespots, and bounce between them. the old system, alowed the target to avoid being probed, by using multiple safespots, and making new ones whilst warping between them, but still gave the prober a chance to find the target.
the new system, well. now the target can make a cup of tea, and sandwich upon arrival at the safespot, before coming back and warping to a new one.
this development in the game has had a massive boost to pve probing, but massive nerf to pvp, so will have to join the train thats shouting 'ccp keeps making this game easier for newbs to avoid getting pew pewed' - examples..
* Near imposibility of probing a ship in space that isnt afk.. * regional gates the size of a small country making entry system camping almost impossible with 2/3 people * constalational gate larger - not so much of a problem.. but still.. * Inertia - ships are warping alot faster that they really should, bc's/cruisers warping almost as fast as frigs?!
I dont whine ever, because all of these things on there own arent so much of an issue, but it really is starting to look like ccp cant help but give the carebears of empire and equally easy time in 0.0.
0.0 is a dangerous place, and i feel its been made less and less dangerous every time a patch comes out.
Should we just make all space 1.0 and have done with it?
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FOl2TY8
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2009.03.13 17:33:00 -
[42]
Edited by: FOl2TY8 on 13/03/2009 17:33:00
Originally by: Sirion Fujiwara
What? Freighter!? Dude - you need anger management therapy! There there.....
People are flaming you because your only argument is "scanning is now boring hurf durf!"
---------- This post brought to you by the worst PVP'er in Eve |
Moonmonkey
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Posted - 2009.03.13 17:35:00 -
[43]
I like the new system, it requires player interaction.
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Sirion Fujiwara
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Posted - 2009.03.13 17:39:00 -
[44]
Originally by: FOl2TY8 Edited by: FOl2TY8 on 13/03/2009 17:33:00
Originally by: Sirion Fujiwara
What? Freighter!? Dude - you need anger management therapy! There there.....
People are flaming you because your only argument is "scanning is now boring hurf durf!"
Uhm - well, I was under the impression that a game was supposed to be fun as opposed to boring, but perhaps I have that all backwards.....?
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Synnyr
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Posted - 2009.03.13 17:43:00 -
[45]
I've posted my comments in another thread.
I do feel cheated of days and days of training time and 200 million+ isk.
I believe I could live with the current version of scanning if I could determine before I start what kind of sites are in the system. The loss of the Multispectral probe means I have to take the time to find every single site before determining whether it's worth my time...and usually it isn't. I've been told the 'Deep Space Scanner' is the semi-equivilent. However, in it's infinite wisdom CCP decided that should be an Astrometrics level 5 item. Sweet. Just another 12 days of training after I've already thrown away two weeks on the old system.
I do not enjoy positioning, and re-positioning, and re-positioning, and re-positioning, and changing scan ranges on each probe. To me that isn't 'fun' it's a hassle. Under the old system I could set my probes up and scan. I could chat with Corp mates, I could watch TV, I could Google...it was a nice system that didn't require constant attention and manipulation.
If I didn't find something under the old system after a while I'd just move on...now I spend 15 to 20 minutes in each system just to find out I don't want to be there. One would think after training my Signal Acquisition Skill (level 8) to skill level 4 I would get some benefit. Nope. It's just gone. Replaced by another skill with a lower level.
There was no consideration at all given to those of us who spent a lot of time exploring. We're stuck with 1000s of useless probes, up to 17 blueprints of a probe (costing up to 100 million isk) that no one will buy, and days upon days of training wasted.
I believe there should be a Multispectral probe re-introduced. If indeed the Deepspace Scanner is the equivilent (I don't know because there was never a need to train to Astrometrics 5 before) then consider lowering its use to 4.
Not that anyone cares, but after mucking around with the new system last night I don't have any interest in exploring right now. That was the aspect of the game that I enjoyed and it fit with my time and method of playing. It also provided a good income for those of us who chose that path. Now I feel less inclined to log in. Skill is no longer necessary to scan, and the new system is clunky and annoying.
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Barkaial Starfinder
Minmatar The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc. Balance of Judgment
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Posted - 2009.03.13 17:48:00 -
[46]
Hey, if the guys that made up this new scanning system are reading this...
I LOVE IT! Seriously
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.03.13 17:54:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 13/03/2009 17:59:38
Quote: (which is blowing stuff up)
Indeed. The entire game is about blowing stuff up. Absolutely nothing else.
Quote: I believe I could live with the current version of scanning if I could determine before I start what kind of sites are in the system. The loss of the Multispectral probe means I have to take the time to find every single site before determining whether it's worth my time...and usually it isn't. I've been told the 'Deep Space Scanner' is the semi-equivilent. However, in it's infinite wisdom CCP decided that should be an Astrometrics level 5 item. Sweet. Just another 12 days of training after I've already thrown away two weeks on the old system.
I do not enjoy positioning, and re-positioning, and re-positioning, and re-positioning, and changing scan ranges on each probe. To me that isn't 'fun' it's a hassle. Under the old system I could set my probes up and scan. I could chat with Corp mates, I could watch TV, I could Google...it was a nice system that didn't require constant attention and manipulation.
If I didn't find something under the old system after a while I'd just move on...now I spend 15 to 20 minutes in each system just to find out I don't want to be there. One would think after training my Signal Acquisition Skill (level 8) to skill level 4 I would get some benefit. Nope. It's just gone. Replaced by another skill with a lower level.
There was no consideration at all given to those of us who spent a lot of time exploring. We're stuck with 1000s of useless probes, up to 17 blueprints of a probe (costing up to 100 million isk) that no one will buy, and days upon days of training wasted.
I believe there should be a Multispectral probe re-introduced. If indeed the Deepspace Scanner is the equivilent (I don't know because there was never a need to train to Astrometrics 5 before) then consider lowering its use to 4.
Not that anyone cares, but after mucking around with the new system last night I don't have any interest in exploring right now. That was the aspect of the game that I enjoyed and it fit with my time and method of playing. It also provided a good income for those of us who chose that path. Now I feel less inclined to log in. Skill is no longer necessary to scan, and the new system is clunky and annoying.
For one, it's 12 days of training. Whoopdeedoo. Or, you could just drop four probes at 32 AU around the system for the same effect.
Lowering the deep space scan probe to IV would make Astrometrics V usel
The training is not wasted. It's just not a difference between "Being utterly useless and pathetic at scanning" and "Being amazing at it". In a recent w-space expedition, I was the only one in a ship with dedicated scanner. Many others had good scan skills, but I was the only one with the ship bonus, the rigs, and the sisters launcher.
They were able to scan pretty well..but there were multiple occasions where they had great difficulty getting a 100% signal hit on a site, whereas I never encountered such issues.
Someone with virtually no skills can probably scan down easier sites in a bit more time, but the skills are certainly worthwhile for the dedicated explorer.
Also, what you're saying is that you enjoy doing exploration plexes but not looking for them. That's what CCP was trying to change-putting more exploration in exploration.
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Y Berion
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.03.13 18:10:00 -
[48]
I don`t like this new scanning. It`s too fast and easy to find cosmic signatures now, there is ZERO challenge in it.
@Synnyr: well said, could not agree more.
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Eventy One
Magellan Exploration and Survey
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Posted - 2009.03.13 18:15:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Y Berion I don`t like this new scanning. It`s too fast and easy to find cosmic signatures now, there is ZERO challenge in it.
@Synnyr: well said, could not agree more.
I agree. I think they've made it far to easy, specifically so the attention-deficit crowd could find worm-holes.
I'm not completely against some of the changes, but I lament the loss of its chance-based mechanics which really tended to set a thresh-hold for those who were serious about it as a profession.
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Kale Kold
Caldari Mortis Angelus The Church.
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Posted - 2009.03.13 18:22:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Kale Kold on 13/03/2009 18:24:22
Originally by: Sirion Fujiwara Come on... Positioning and re-positiong probes is DULL beyond belief. Considering the complexity in the rest of the game, this is just completely ridiculous as a 'trade' or vocation.
It is very very very dull! why CCP, why? Also the little red circle thing is stupid! What if you are a little colour blind? It took me ages to find the thing and that was because i read an un-official guide to learn what i was supposed to do and then and only then did i see it! Very very poorly thought out!
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.03.13 18:25:00 -
[51]
Quote:
I agree. I think they've made it far to easy, specifically so the attention-deficit crowd could find worm-holes.
I'm not completely against some of the changes, but I lament the loss of its chance-based mechanics which really tended to set a thresh-hold for those who were serious about it as a profession.
Chance-based mechanics are only a barrier when someone doesn't want to sit and watch a timer tick down.
Finding a wormhole in hisec is easy. Hell, finding sites within "Hisec" w-space is easy. Finding sites in "deep" w-space (e.g. the w-space that actually yields good profits and doesn't leave you as gank bait) is considerably harder. Also, exploration plexes were really just as easy to scan down in hisec. Now, they're slightly faster, with the caveat that you don't initially know what you'll find.
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Eventy One
Magellan Exploration and Survey
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Posted - 2009.03.13 18:28:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden
Quote:
I agree. I think they've made it far to easy, specifically so the attention-deficit crowd could find worm-holes.
I'm not completely against some of the changes, but I lament the loss of its chance-based mechanics which really tended to set a thresh-hold for those who were serious about it as a profession.
Chance-based mechanics are only a barrier when someone doesn't want to sit and watch a timer tick down.
Finding a wormhole in hisec is easy. Hell, finding sites within "Hisec" w-space is easy. Finding sites in "deep" w-space (e.g. the w-space that actually yields good profits and doesn't leave you as gank bait) is considerably harder. Also, exploration plexes were really just as easy to scan down in hisec. Now, they're slightly faster, with the caveat that you don't initially know what you'll find.
Not completely true.
The chanced based mechanics wasn't simply about awaiting a timer. It required skill to place probes .. and yes chance did require some patience, but patience enough that those to lazy to do the work didn't get the reward.
This whole risk/reward thing, worked in Astrometrics by determination/reward. The harder sites did take longer to find, but my-oh-my were you rewarded when you did the work.
Now, with no chance, you are all but guaranteed to get the hit - as long as you're not a complete idiot in moving your probes about - you'll find the site.
The bar has been set too low!
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Ruze
Amarr No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2009.03.13 18:35:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Eventy One
Originally by: Y Berion I don`t like this new scanning. It`s too fast and easy to find cosmic signatures now, there is ZERO challenge in it.
@Synnyr: well said, could not agree more.
I agree. I think they've made it far to easy, specifically so the attention-deficit crowd could find worm-holes.
I'm not completely against some of the changes, but I lament the loss of its chance-based mechanics which really tended to set a thresh-hold for those who were serious about it as a profession.
To get the arguments categorized and straight:
- Some players hate the old system, because you could read a book while waiting for your probe results - Others argue that the new system panders to the ADD crowd
- Some people argue that the new system is too easy - Others hate the new system because they can't find exactly what types of places are in the system like, by only dropping one probe, like they could with the old system
- Some people hate the new system because it's too fast to find cosmic signatures - Some people hate the old system because it took too long to find cosmic signatures
- Some people hate the new system because it takes too long to find player ships - Some people hate the old system because players could find player ships too quickly
- Some people hate the new system because it doesn't randomly judge whether you're probe found something or not
I'll admit, I'm one of the 'love the new system' crowd. The idea that it's easier and quicker in the past to find a small, mobile ship versus a massive collection of structures or equipment or asteroids in space? Yeah, that made no sense.
The random variable made no sense, either.
I hear lots of complaints from players about having to 'search through every signal', and then someone like Eventy One posts about how much this new system is too quick and easy.
Players who loved the old system, because they could essentially drop ONE prob, hit scan a couple times to get past the random dice roll, read a book in the background, then finally move on because they knew that the system they were in did not have the specific thing they were looking for? Now complaining about having to ACTIVELY search out the signals to determine what they were after?
The contradictions make little sense. If you don't like change, THAT I can understand. But you look like an arrogant snob trying to JUSTIFY and rationalize how you are smarter, or more capable.
Before Wormholes
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Aldarica
Spinal Discipline
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Posted - 2009.03.13 18:36:00 -
[54]
With this new dumb-friendly scan mechanics I feel I've just lost my main occupation in EVE. Hey CCP, any chance to bring back the old system?! Well... I guess not...
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Ruze
Amarr No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2009.03.13 18:38:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Aldarica With this new dumb-friendly scan mechanics I feel I've just lost my main occupation in EVE. Hey CCP, any chance to bring back the old system?! Well... I guess not...
Serious question: Why?
Why do you feel you've lost your primary occupation? What has changed?
Is it the mechanics? Or is it the number of individuals participating? That seems to be behind many of the arguments, that because of the new mechanics and so many finding it enjoyable, it's not as lucrative or elitist as it once was.
Just wondering.
Before Wormholes
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Armoured C
Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Aggression.
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Posted - 2009.03.13 18:39:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Sirion Fujiwara
Originally by: Armoured C
Originally by: Sirion Fujiwara
Originally by: Armoured C op obvisouly hasnt scaned a day in his life beofre new scanning effects... the 4 hour wasiting because of luck and those STUPID mid warp bookmarks than needed to be right
op can just STFU until he knows what he is talking about
Lol!! What an angry little boy you are. I guess you have your reasons...
lol you have no idea what scanning was like before so dont come on here going the old system was better
go take you freighter losses with you
What? Freighter!? Dude - you need anger management therapy! There there.....
these ones
This week EvE Life: Wormhole Wars 01/Feb
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Kale Kold
Caldari Mortis Angelus The Church.
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Posted - 2009.03.13 18:40:00 -
[57]
Well we need a system that's not based on micro-managing probes and that's not too easy to do!
Also WTF happened to my skills??? I have FULL probing skills and it feels as though they make no difference whatsoever!
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Taius Pax
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Posted - 2009.03.13 18:41:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Taius Pax on 13/03/2009 18:41:44
Originally by: Sirion Fujiwara Scanning was nice and easy before Apocrypha - as it should be. It is hardly the core of the game, more like an add-on feature for the core of the game (which is blowing stuff up). The old system worked perfectly and logically, but now it seems things have been over complicated for no reason at all. Why do I need to sit there and fiddle around with four probes (TRI-angulation???) for half an hour to find one measly ship!? Endlessly adjusting and re-adjusting probe positions and ranges whilst trying to guess where the hell the ship is in the 'red sphere thingy' is tedious beyond anything CCP has yet come up with. Why make it tedious when it could be made fun!??? It's a bit like mining really. Could have been made fun, but actually it is just a boring pain in the arse. Sometimes you have to wonder why CCP even wastes time developing new stuff when they are just making things worse and less enjoyable.
Are you nuts? How is peppering a system with probes, spamming a button, waiting to randomly find a signature, warping to it, dropping a better probe and repeating 2 more times more fun than actively pursuing a signature with probes? (that you can warp and only take a few seconds to scan!)
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Eventy One
Magellan Exploration and Survey
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Posted - 2009.03.13 18:41:00 -
[59]
I agree, that there are some who resist change simply for the sake of resisting change.
I'm not saying that! There are things about the new system I like. BUT I am saying they've somewhat thrown the baby out with the bath water. There were things about the old system I liked too.
Personally, I like the new interface, the ability to move probes around .. THE NO 4AU limit!!!
But I do think - its too easy now. Not necessarily too fast - too easy! Where is the skill?
Before there was a learning curve to learn the trade, that, lets face it ,not everyone was willing to climb. But I suspect CCP wanted to eliminate this for the very reason of making W-space more accessible.
In terms of the philosophy of the game .. not everyone is forced to live in empire, not everyone is forced to mine, to pvp, to live in 0.0.
The reward for leaning astrometrics was finding hidden stuff - plain and simple. Remove some of the skill requirements and not only does it make it too easy, it goes against the philosophy (to a certain extent) of the game.
Like I said before - I believe there is a middle-ground. That's what I hope CCP finds.
Just as everyone
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Armoured C
Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Aggression.
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Posted - 2009.03.13 18:42:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Taius Pax
Originally by: Sirion Fujiwara Scanning was nice and easy before Apocrypha - as it should be. It is hardly the core of the game, more like an add-on feature for the core of the game (which is blowing stuff up). The old system worked perfectly and logically, but now it seems things have been over complicated for no reason at all. Why do I need to sit there and fiddle around with four probes (TRI-angulation???) for half an hour to find one measly ship!? Endlessly adjusting and re-adjusting probe positions and ranges whilst trying to guess where the hell the ship is in the 'red sphere thingy' is tedious beyond anything CCP has yet come up with. Why make it tedious when it could be made fun!??? It's a bit like mining really. Could have been made fun, but actually it is just a boring pain in the arse. Sometimes you have to wonder why CCP even wastes time developing new stuff when they are just making things worse and less enjoyable.
Are you nuts? How is peppering a system with probes, spamming a button waiting to randomly find a signature, warping to it, dropping a better probe and repeating 2 more times more fun than actively pursuing a signature with the probes?
op is talking out his wormhole
im just ignoring him now
This week EvE Life: Wormhole Wars 01/Feb
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Taius Pax
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Posted - 2009.03.13 18:46:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Eventy One I agree, that there are some who resist change simply for the sake of resisting change.
I'm not saying that! There are things about the new system I like. BUT I am saying they've somewhat thrown the baby out with the bath water. There were things about the old system I liked too.
Personally, I like the new interface, the ability to move probes around .. THE NO 4AU limit!!!
But I do think - its too easy now. Not necessarily too fast - too easy! Where is the skill?
Before there was a learning curve to learn the trade, that, lets face it ,not everyone was willing to climb. But I suspect CCP wanted to eliminate this for the very reason of making W-space more accessible.
In terms of the philosophy of the game .. not everyone is forced to live in empire, not everyone is forced to mine, to pvp, to live in 0.0.
The reward for leaning astrometrics was finding hidden stuff - plain and simple. Remove some of the skill requirements and not only does it make it too easy, it goes against the philosophy (to a certain extent) of the game.
Like I said before - I believe there is a middle-ground. That's what I hope CCP finds.
Just as everyone
I'm not sure I'd consider dropping probe coverage over every planet in a system and spamming the scan button with a minute wait in between skill. I'd argue there's far more skill in aligning the probes quickly to track signature now than there ever was in the randomness of before.
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Ruze
Amarr No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2009.03.13 18:59:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Taius Pax
Originally by: Eventy One I agree, that there are some who resist change simply for the sake of resisting change.
I'm not saying that! There are things about the new system I like. BUT I am saying they've somewhat thrown the baby out with the bath water. There were things about the old system I liked too.
Personally, I like the new interface, the ability to move probes around .. THE NO 4AU limit!!!
But I do think - its too easy now. Not necessarily too fast - too easy! Where is the skill?
Before there was a learning curve to learn the trade, that, lets face it ,not everyone was willing to climb. But I suspect CCP wanted to eliminate this for the very reason of making W-space more accessible.
In terms of the philosophy of the game .. not everyone is forced to live in empire, not everyone is forced to mine, to pvp, to live in 0.0.
The reward for leaning astrometrics was finding hidden stuff - plain and simple. Remove some of the skill requirements and not only does it make it too easy, it goes against the philosophy (to a certain extent) of the game.
Like I said before - I believe there is a middle-ground. That's what I hope CCP finds.
Just as everyone
I'm not sure I'd consider dropping probe coverage over every planet in a system and spamming the scan button with a minute wait in between skill. I'd argue there's far more skill in aligning the probes quickly to track signature now than there ever was in the randomness of before.
I believe that this was more of a 'rite of passage', in the sense that if you couldn't hack the stupid mechanics, you didn't participate.
Sense so many players, myself included, felt the old mechanics were completely stupid ... it meant that exploration could remain the enjoyment of the few. The few who could then monopolize on the industries provided by the rewards of exploration, since there were a limited number of participants.
Now that probing is more or less opened to everyone, the players who made it their primary profession are looking at a severe cut in profits.
The workaround to this (which, believe it or not, I think is a valid complaint), might possibly the introduction to higher-end, much harder to find sites. Sites that possibly require escalation in training and dedication.
Before Wormholes
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Eventy One
Magellan Exploration and Survey
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Posted - 2009.03.13 19:00:00 -
[63]
I'm not sure it was ever simply that simple. System geometry made dropping probes, a bit of an art.
Fact that scanning was probability-based meant that simply scanning did not guarantee you'd find what you were looking for, especially if you had simply settled for laying probes on each planet.
More often than not, you had to look at the geometry of the system, create BM's, drop probes to minimize shadow areas - then trust you had done it skillfully enough to rely on your probabilities.
It was much more enjoyable than simply moving your probes about to chase a guaranteed hit.
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Kuzya Morozov
Gallente Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.03.13 19:07:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Armoured C op obvisouly hasnt scaned a day in his life beofre new scanning effects... the 4 hour wasiting because of luck and those STUPID mid warp bookmarks than needed to be right
op can just STFU until he knows what he is talking about
this tbh, you're an idiot OP
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Y Berion
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.03.13 19:13:00 -
[65]
Edited by: Y Berion on 13/03/2009 19:14:01
Originally by: Taius Pax I'm not sure I'd consider dropping probe coverage over every planet in a system and spamming the scan button with a minute wait in between skill. I'd argue there's far more skill in aligning the probes quickly to track signature now than there ever was in the randomness of before.
Obviously, you haven`t really been in exploration business before, right? Otherwise you -and all other fresh new wannabe explorers here- would know that the old system required much, MUCH more work and player skill than this joke called "new exploration".
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Th0rG0d
Caldari Pilots From Honour
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Posted - 2009.03.13 19:14:00 -
[66]
I feel scanning is much easier and quicker when searching for sites then the old system. It is also more interactive and fun too. But, I have messed around trying to scan down ships that I knew were in system, at a belt, just to get a feel for the mechanics and build speed. Was I able to scan down these ships? Not yet.... At least not before they returned to unload their ore. I have much practice to do before scanning down ships. And I agree with what someone posted before, anyone not AFK will probably be impossible to get a warpable result to. We shall see...
P.S. I do love the new system though!
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Marcus Xavier
Minmatar Xavier Institute for Higher Learning
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Posted - 2009.03.13 19:21:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Sirion Fujiwara Scanning was nice and easy before Apocrypha ... It is hardly the core of the game, more like an add-on feature for the core of the game (which is blowing stuff up). ... Why do I need to sit there and fiddle around with four probes (TRI-angulation???) for half an hour to find one measly ship!?
Since the thread seems to meander between exploration and ship probing, I want to point out that the OP isn't concerned with scanning from the standpoint of exploration. He is concerned about the inability to drop a recon or exploration probe to find ships to ...ah... pvp in under 30 seconds. ---------------- Mutatis Mutandis |
Ruze
Amarr No Applicable Corporation
|
Posted - 2009.03.13 19:22:00 -
[68]
Originally by: T***G0d I feel scanning is much easier and quicker when searching for sites then the old system. It is also more interactive and fun too. But, I have messed around trying to scan down ships that I knew were in system, at a belt, just to get a feel for the mechanics and build speed. Was I able to scan down these ships? Not yet.... At least not before they returned to unload their ore. I have much practice to do before scanning down ships. And I agree with what someone posted before, anyone not AFK will probably be impossible to get a warpable result to. We shall see...
P.S. I do love the new system though!
Have you tried pinpointing their position with the onboard scanner, BEFORE sending your probes that way?
It *can* cut down on a lot of the probe scaling. If you're lucky enough to catch them on the scanner, which takes some knowledge on how that onboard scanner works and how to find player positions.
Cold shot, though ... I'd agree. Finding a ship with the scan probes is rough. But in the same breath, finding a small, moving ship *should* be harder than finding a massive installation in space in my opinion.
Before Wormholes
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Armoured C
Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Aggression.
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Posted - 2009.03.13 19:28:00 -
[69]
also the reason why you can now warp you probes is because
mid warp book marks with the map open was SO STUPID
i had a folder with just midwarp book marks which i cleared out every month and it lagged my system up for 7 minutes
new system is much better
i dont mind taking a cuts in profits or what not
the new system is better END OFF
i would of prefered it that my skill i did make it better that over other people who havnt quite trained it up as high as me but my high skills mean i can scan effectivly in all types of ships where some people might not get the strength unless they are in a cover op ship.
for the new UI face and warpingable scan probes and re usable scan probes i am happy
This week EvE Life: Wormhole Wars 01/Feb
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Y Berion
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.03.13 19:29:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Ruze Now that probing is more or less opened to everyone, the players who made it their primary profession are looking at a severe cut in profits.
Well I must say this is also one of the reasons why I don`t like this new system.
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Eventy One
Magellan Exploration and Survey
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Posted - 2009.03.13 19:31:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Y Berion
Originally by: Ruze Now that probing is more or less opened to everyone, the players who made it their primary profession are looking at a severe cut in profits.
Well I must say this is also one of the reasons why I don`t like this new system.
I agree, but this is an easy thing to fix .. make the highest end systems, near impossible to find without supporting skills.
Personally, I'm just not fond of the idea that no probability is involved in the detection of the site .. ok the quatrangulation is cool, but does it have to be completely devoid of chance?
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Italian Wedding
Soup Of The Day
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Posted - 2009.03.13 19:39:00 -
[72]
I like the new probing, however, the camera setup in the system map can be very annoying with the way it works when trying to position probes just right...
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Ruze
Amarr No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2009.03.13 19:39:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Eventy One
Originally by: Y Berion
Originally by: Ruze Now that probing is more or less opened to everyone, the players who made it their primary profession are looking at a severe cut in profits.
Well I must say this is also one of the reasons why I don`t like this new system.
I agree, but this is an easy thing to fix .. make the highest end systems, near impossible to find without supporting skills.
Personally, I'm just not fond of the idea that no probability is involved in the detection of the site .. ok the quatrangulation is cool, but does it have to be completely devoid of chance?
It's not. Skill still plays a part in being able to pinpoint the more difficult sites. If you lack skills, you simply cannot get to all sites (specifically in w-space). If you have the skills already trained, like many of us do, you don't notice it much. The more difficult sites just take a little more calibration and arrangement, and persistence.
Deviation, however, doesn't stop the site from showing up on your 'possible signals', nor does it stop you from pinpointing approximately where it's at or what type it is. It just stops you from getting to it.
Before Wormholes
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Marlenus
Caldari Ironfleet Towing And Salvage Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.03.13 19:39:00 -
[74]
It's an old political truism that when you're getting fire from both sides, you're probably in a pretty good place.
People are complaining that the new system is too hard, that it's too easy, that it takes too much skill, that it doesn't require enough skill, that it's too fast, that it's too slow, that it's too boring, that it takes too much attention. I take all this as proof that CCP got it just right.
For me, the bottom line is that the new system engages my attention, which the old system did not except in the bookmarking and probe setup phase. Much as I enjoyed catching up on the forums while probing, it was a sign of busted game design. Engagement is a stated CCP priority, and they've achieved it with the new system.
Also, I just love the new system -- and I enjoyed the old one. I invested a lot of training time and ISK to use the old one, and I feel that investment continues to be adequately rewarded in the new. Exploration is somewhat less exclusive now, and I understand the serious explorers who feel a pang about that -- but they (we) remain at such an advantage over the newbies, I just don't see it as whine-worthy. And I'm having so much more fun now!
It's pure win. ------------------ Ironfleet.com |
Y Berion
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.03.13 19:41:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Eventy One Personally, I'm just not fond of the idea that no probability is involved in the detection of the site .. ok the quatrangulation is cool, but does it have to be completely devoid of chance?
Yeah that "luck part" was also cool. Gamblers understand why
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Th0rG0d
Caldari Pilots From Honour
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Posted - 2009.03.13 19:49:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Ruze
Have you tried pinpointing their position with the onboard scanner, BEFORE sending your probes that way?
It *can* cut down on a lot of the probe scaling. If you're lucky enough to catch them on the scanner, which takes some knowledge on how that onboard scanner works and how to find player positions.
Cold shot, though ... I'd agree. Finding a ship with the scan probes is rough. But in the same breath, finding a small, moving ship *should* be harder than finding a massive installation in space in my opinion.
Don't take my post as a whine. I am just stating the facts. And yes, I do know how to use the directional scanner, but that wasn't the point of my practice attempts. The point was to develop speed while scanning for a ship that I knew was in a belt mining, to obtain a warpable result. So far it hasn't happened for me yet. If a ship is sitting in a safe, you won't scan him down if you aren't fast.
And yes, scanning for a moving object should be harder then finding a stationary plex. I'm just saying that for those of us wanting to scan down ships, practice is in order, regardless of skills
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Erichk Knaar
Caldari Noir.
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Posted - 2009.03.13 19:52:00 -
[77]
The new scanning system is working well enough to get a logoffski kill in under a minute, and then the pod, while I was in a Recon. Not seeing any problems with it tbh.
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Ohishi
Caldari Apocalypse Reign
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Posted - 2009.03.13 20:14:00 -
[78]
I agree, CCP needs to undo everything they did in regards to scanning out ships. One probe to find them all is ridiculous. The old system was effective, smart and fast. Everything that is needed for finding a ship you are attempting to pin down and kill. Now it can take precious seconds more to triangulate them and find one of their SSs before they warp off again and more often than not I am ending up with mid warp nothings on the scanner window. Which by the way completely sucks now and needs to be put back to the way it looked in the classic client.
My skills in scanning are 5's across the board including cov-ops 5, and have all but mastered the dutiful art of scanning out ships as fast as possible, yet now CCP has changed this system for the worst if you ask me and agree it should be put back.
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Irida Mershkov
Gallente Noir.
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Posted - 2009.03.13 20:17:00 -
[79]
Maybe we should make an interactive mining laser thing, like setting the frequency of the lasers in certain positions...
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Tzar'rim
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Posted - 2009.03.13 20:23:00 -
[80]
Actually, I see the new probing system as an improvement, a victory of skill/experience over "lulz, my 3 yearold can do it" gameplay. Sure it needs some tweaking in the camera department but in essense it's fantastic.
Self-proclaimed idiot
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Th0rG0d
Caldari Pilots From Honour
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Posted - 2009.03.13 20:30:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Erichk Knaar The new scanning system is working well enough to get a logoffski kill in under a minute, and then the pod, while I was in a Recon. Not seeing any problems with it tbh.
Yay... You scanned down a ship that was immobile and effectively AFK. Congrats... I don't buy the 1 minute... Their ship would be in warp during most of that time, so you are saying that you scanned someone down and got a warpable result in less then a minute, then warped there yourself? Really?
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Irida Mershkov
Gallente Noir.
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Posted - 2009.03.13 20:34:00 -
[82]
Originally by: T***G0d
Originally by: Erichk Knaar The new scanning system is working well enough to get a logoffski kill in under a minute, and then the pod, while I was in a Recon. Not seeing any problems with it tbh.
Yay... You scanned down a ship that was immobile and effectively AFK. Congrats... I don't buy the 1 minute... Their ship would be in warp during most of that time, so you are saying that you scanned someone down and got a warpable result in less then a minute, then warped there yourself? Really?
To be honest, if it stops people using Logoffskis in knowledge they'll die anyway, it is well worth it.
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Fikreta
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Posted - 2009.03.13 20:38:00 -
[83]
WTF these probes can warp anywhere within the solar system with no warpable object or BM? how?!? I wanna ships to be able to do the same ^^
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Erichk Knaar
Caldari Noir.
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Posted - 2009.03.13 20:38:00 -
[84]
Originally by: T***G0d
I don't buy the 1 minute... Their ship would be in warp during most of that time, so you are saying that you scanned someone down and got a warpable result in less then a minute, then warped there yourself? Really?
Yes, he logged during a fight, and we only got around to starting to scan for him with around 2 minutes left on his aggro timer. All you need to do is learn how to triangulate properly. Then again, I was pretty good at the old scanning system too, you know, the one that required triangulation, before they made it easymode.
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Th0rG0d
Caldari Pilots From Honour
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Posted - 2009.03.13 20:41:00 -
[85]
Edited by: T***G0d on 13/03/2009 20:43:24
Originally by: Irida Mershkov
To be honest, if it stops people using Logoffskis in knowledge they'll die anyway, it is well worth it.
QFT. I hadn't really thought of that actually... As it takes the random chance out, you should be able to scan them down always.....
Quote: Yes, he logged during a fight, and we only got around to starting to scan for him with around 2 minutes left on his aggro timer. All you need to do is learn how to triangulate properly. Then again, I was pretty good at the old scanning system too, you know, the one that required triangulation, before they made it easymode.
Ok. Thanks for the clarification.. Sorry for the doubt!
Edit: for the reply
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Mawusi
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Posted - 2009.03.13 20:45:00 -
[86]
Edited by: Mawusi on 13/03/2009 20:45:45 Scanning has improved for the better. No longer will I have to waste 4hrs finding complexes, to only be given some crap T1 loot at the end of it.
Seriously though, I know some of you take this game waaaaay to seriously, but that just what it is...a game !! Not all of us have that much time to waste. It was simply a case of clicking 'scan', waiting 2 mins and hoping for the best. At least now I feel like Im actually getting involved.
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Erichk Knaar
Caldari Noir.
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Posted - 2009.03.13 20:51:00 -
[87]
Originally by: T***G0d
Ok. Thanks for the clarification.. Sorry for the doubt!
np, I was actually pretty surprised with the speed myself. I really like the new system. It does require some skill (player skill), but I think its going to be really useful in combat. As far as busting safes go, you would never catch anyone who knew what to do with any of the other scanning systems anyway. The benefit of the new system is the decrease in analyze time. This balances with the skill part of positioning your probes, which, with the shift drag positioning of sets of probes isn't that bad at all, certainly no worse than warp/bookmark, once you get the hang of it.
TL;DR
Better to kill logoffski with, easy to find AFK/idle in safe.
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Minsc
Gallente A.W.M Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2009.03.13 21:08:00 -
[88]
Anyone who thinks that spending 30-45 minutes to scan down a site that takes 15 minutes to actually run is a crazy person. A large majority of the exploration sites were extremely short to run considering the time it actually took to scan them and that doesn't make sense.
Also, the old system was not difficult at all, simply time consuming on the exploration side. People are fooling themselves if they think being able to scan down sites in the old system somehow made them special. Slightly masochistic maybe but not special.
CCP have already said they need to tweak combat scanning, so start posting your suggestions on improvements for it right now so they have a list of issues to address when they start to work on it.
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Taius Pax
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Posted - 2009.03.13 21:15:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Y Berion Edited by: Y Berion on 13/03/2009 19:14:01
Originally by: Taius Pax I'm not sure I'd consider dropping probe coverage over every planet in a system and spamming the scan button with a minute wait in between skill. I'd argue there's far more skill in aligning the probes quickly to track signature now than there ever was in the randomness of before.
Obviously, you haven`t really been in exploration business before, right? Otherwise you -and all other fresh new wannabe explorers here- would know that the old system required much, MUCH more work and player skill than this joke called "new exploration".
I'm not new at all to exploration. I've done it on this char and another for a while. It's nothing more than a chore. Sure you had to figure out how to cover 4AU around the planets while not having any probes inside others fields, but really once you figure this out once for a system that's it.
After that, even with excellent skills, it's just warping around a system and playing the crap shoot until your number finally comes up. This requires a great deal of patience/determination to get through the boredom, but is not skill.
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Bad Brown
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Posted - 2009.03.13 21:48:00 -
[90]
Edited by: Bad Brown on 13/03/2009 21:56:01
Originally by: Sirion Fujiwara Scanning was nice and easy before Apocrypha - as it should be. It is hardly the core of the game, more like an add-on feature for the core of the game (which is blowing stuff up). The old system worked perfectly and logically, but now it seems things have been over complicated for no reason at all. Why do I need to sit there and fiddle around with four probes (TRI-angulation???) for half an hour to find one measly ship!? Endlessly adjusting and re-adjusting probe positions and ranges whilst trying to guess where the hell the ship is in the 'red sphere thingy' is tedious beyond anything CCP has yet come up with. Why make it tedious when it could be made fun!??? It's a bit like mining really. Could have been made fun, but actually it is just a boring pain in the arse. Sometimes you have to wonder why CCP even wastes time developing new stuff when they are just making things worse and less enjoyable.
Agreed, tedious micro management with the graphics of some piece of crap retro game.
The old scanning system wasn't great, but moving little arrows around doesn't make me feel like I'm flying a cool futuristic space ship.
One more thing about it, someone should have thought about one in ten males having a degree of colour blindness. Pity all the bubbles look the same colour for some of us, still, if the game goes any further backwards it will be black and white anyway.
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Tanhar
Gallente Tides of Silence
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Posted - 2009.03.13 21:49:00 -
[91]
Edited by: Tanhar on 13/03/2009 21:49:47 Scanning in K-space now really easy. Old explorers would say too easy probably.
Now W-space is where the "fun" begins. After purposefully spending a day inside I marked all signatures.
You know what - old system is still there. Only previously it was place probes - hit button - go smoke - repeat. Now it is place probes, hit button, move probes, hit button, move probes, hit button, try to remember, is it 100 or 101th time you are about to hit the same site, repeat, repeat, repeat...pin down another useless belt, repeat, repeat...
As tiresome as it was, except no afk. Once you master the basics, the only "player skill" required is patience.
I was warping into every site I found and bookmarking them, so finally I had good hints where else to scan. But meh, 17 bookmarks cluttering all the place...
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Synnyr
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Posted - 2009.03.14 02:16:00 -
[92]
Well, after putzing around with it again this evening I've decided to give EvE an extended break. I realized after this change that Exploration was what kept my interest. Since I don't like the changes I'll go find something else. No fuss. No muss.
Not going to slam CCP or the game as someday I'll come back I'm sure. Just not my cup of tea atm. Have fun everyone!
Going to set a long skill and train it until expiration. See you sometime.
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Aldarica
Spinal Discipline
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Posted - 2009.03.14 09:03:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Ruze
Originally by: Aldarica With this new dumb-friendly scan mechanics I feel I've just lost my main occupation in EVE. Hey CCP, any chance to bring back the old system?! Well... I guess not...
Serious question: Why?
because it's dumb and easy, ok?
Yesterday I found five lowsec sites in less than an hour - now where are the fun and excitement in it? Finding hidden places should be tough time consuming job requiring a lot of patience... that's what exploration made a very special niche for players like me and now it's gone
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Herring
Caldari Alcatraz Inc. THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY
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Posted - 2009.03.14 10:15:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Bullageddon My char spent 15mins training up astro and astro tri to lv1 last night.
I have never used probes before.
It took me 15mins to figure out the system and scan down my first wormhole.
Why is this so difficult for people?
See this? This is the problem. This guy is right; he spends a half hour training and is just as successful as some of us who have put a considerable amount of training time into exploration.
The system has many improved attributes I agree, but levelling the playing field so that any half hour newb can find wormholes or other lucrative sites rubs me the wrong way. In the pocketbook. Highly successful scanning available pain(and training time)-free is bogus. Just another skillset that once had value and now does not. Gay.
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Seth Darkness
Gallente Friends of Honor Minor Threat.
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Posted - 2009.03.14 11:54:00 -
[95]
this triangulation crap gave me headaches last night.
how about one of you expert probers make a video and post it on youtube or whatever so we can understand? :D Forget perfect, I'm trying not to be worthless |
Y Berion
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.03.14 15:21:00 -
[96]
As someone said in this thread, I wish CCP to introduce some new type of rare and extremely difficult to pinpoint exploration sites that would suit the needs of hardcore explorers. Because this new systems has no real challenge and every newbie explorer even with basic skills can perform almost the same as me (I invested A LOT of time and ISK in skills and equipment which apparently I don`t even need any more).
Btw today I`ve found 2 plexes and 1 radar in Minmatar lowsec (in 15-20 minutes total... meh). There were people in all of them. For a moment I thought I was in some static high sec plex.
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Ruze
Amarr No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2009.03.14 16:50:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Aldarica
Originally by: Ruze
Originally by: Aldarica With this new dumb-friendly scan mechanics I feel I've just lost my main occupation in EVE. Hey CCP, any chance to bring back the old system?! Well... I guess not...
Serious question: Why?
because it's dumb and easy, ok?
Yesterday I found five lowsec sites in less than an hour - now where are the fun and excitement in it? Finding hidden places should be tough time consuming job requiring a lot of patience... that's what exploration made a very special niche for players like me and now it's gone
The irony of having you call it 'dumb and easy', and then having a poster right behind you talk about how he can't understand the new system ...
If you're mad that there are now more players participating, cool. Don't paint yourself as somehow smarter or more deserving because you put up with broken mechanics beforehand.
Before Wormholes
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Angus MacAuley
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Posted - 2009.03.14 17:07:00 -
[98]
As one of those newbie scanners, I like the system. It makes sense, works well and you do need to train your skills to be able to track down the hard sites.
I was doing some scanning last night and could not pinpoint a couple sites due to my low skills. Kept maxing out at ~75% strength with my probes all at .25AU and good overlap. So you guys with trained-up skills and Sisters launchers still have a major advantage at tracking down the difficult (and likely profitable) sites.
remember, they had to make the easily found sites easily found for everyone so as to make W-space viable. And I'm having a blast tracking down WH's and 3/10 and 4/10 plex's. Going to train my skills up so I can find the more interesting stuff too.
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Ruze
Amarr No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2009.03.14 17:10:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Angus MacAuley As one of those newbie scanners, I like the system. It makes sense, works well and you do need to train your skills to be able to track down the hard sites.
I was doing some scanning last night and could not pinpoint a couple sites due to my low skills. Kept maxing out at ~75% strength with my probes all at .25AU and good overlap. So you guys with trained-up skills and Sisters launchers still have a major advantage at tracking down the difficult (and likely profitable) sites.
remember, they had to make the easily found sites easily found for everyone so as to make W-space viable. And I'm having a blast tracking down WH's and 3/10 and 4/10 plex's. Going to train my skills up so I can find the more interesting stuff too.
Still, I have to agree with some of the posters here ... a possible new 'type' or class of site which is hard, even for the players with maxed skills. Rare, profitable, and boringly time consuming. That's what they miss most of the old system ... that's what needs added to the new.
Before Wormholes
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Aldarica
Spinal Discipline
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Posted - 2009.03.14 18:05:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Angus MacAuley remember, they had to make the easily found sites easily found for everyone so as to make W-space viable.
You mean CCP ruined exploration as profession just to allow all players to run w-holes? If those w-holes are so ******* important they had other options. Like to make their signature huge so no one can miss them
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Minsc
Gallente A.W.M Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2009.03.14 18:34:00 -
[101]
Edited by: Minsc on 14/03/2009 18:37:26 deleted
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Minsc
Gallente A.W.M Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2009.03.14 18:37:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Aldarica
Originally by: Angus MacAuley remember, they had to make the easily found sites easily found for everyone so as to make W-space viable.
You mean CCP ruined exploration as profession just to allow all players to run w-holes? If those w-holes are so ******* important they had other options. Like to make their signature huge so no one can miss them
Forums deleted my big long post.
Short version: You're ****ed because players don't need to be masochists to find sites in the new system so now you have a lot more competition. You thought because you put up with the tedium and boredom of the old system you were special. You were not. The old system was NOT difficult just time consuming.
Adding in harder to scan sigs would be cool, but keep the scanning system as it is now.
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Primnproper
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Posted - 2009.03.14 19:07:00 -
[103]
But the old way was broke, far far too boring ...
Originally by: Graveyard Tan I call bull**** and troll. If you are deaf, how are you even able to read this or type replies?
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Ruze
Amarr No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2009.03.14 19:15:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Primnproper But the old way was broke, far far too boring
The method before it was damn good. Even used triangulation and common sense (though it had flaws). Why they went with the last system never made any sense to me.
Before Wormholes
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Boknamar
Gallente The Knights Trevor
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Posted - 2009.03.14 19:15:00 -
[105]
I really like the new system. I didn't like the old chance based mechanics before, and I always thought that limiting the presence of sites to within 4AU of a planet was artificially constricting. I'm glad to see both those things done away with.
Like many others have said, I'm happy with the new mechanics, but I think there should be an across-the-board reduction in signal strength for all sites. I don't think that this would make exploration much more time consuming under the new mechanics. It would allow novice explorers to find lower-end sites, while making sure that in order to find better and more profitable ones, they need to be willing to invest more time in skill training.
I don't think that experienced probers are special. I do think that high-level astrometrics skills, just like the skills for any other profession, should give a clear and decisive edge.
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Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari Sane Industries Inc. United Freemen Alliance
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Posted - 2009.03.14 19:45:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Angus MacAuley As one of those newbie scanners, I like the system. It makes sense, works well and you do need to train your skills to be able to track down the hard sites.
I was doing some scanning last night and could not pinpoint a couple sites due to my low skills. Kept maxing out at ~75% strength with my probes all at .25AU and good overlap. So you guys with trained-up skills and Sisters launchers still have a major advantage at tracking down the difficult (and likely profitable) sites.
Spotted your mistake.
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Ruze
Amarr No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2009.03.14 19:47:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab
Originally by: Angus MacAuley As one of those newbie scanners, I like the system. It makes sense, works well and you do need to train your skills to be able to track down the hard sites.
I was doing some scanning last night and could not pinpoint a couple sites due to my low skills. Kept maxing out at ~75% strength with my probes all at .25AU and good overlap. So you guys with trained-up skills and Sisters launchers still have a major advantage at tracking down the difficult (and likely profitable) sites.
Spotted your mistake.
What's the mistake? I'm confused.
Unless he was overlapping too much, that I can understand.
Before Wormholes
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Y Berion
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.03.14 20:24:00 -
[108]
Edited by: Y Berion on 14/03/2009 20:24:43
Originally by: Boknamar I think there should be an across-the-board reduction in signal strength for all sites [...] It would allow novice explorers to find lower-end sites, while making sure that in order to find better and more profitable ones, they need to be willing to invest more time in skill training.
[...] I do think that high-level astrometrics skills, just like the skills for any other profession, should give a clear and decisive edge.
Sounds fair to me. Not perfect but, fair
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Armoured C
Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Aggression.
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Posted - 2009.03.14 21:05:00 -
[109]
cant believe this topic is still going new system is better
END OF
This week EvE Life: Wormhole Wars 01/Feb
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Boknamar
Gallente The Knights Trevor
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Posted - 2009.03.14 21:09:00 -
[110]
Edited by: Boknamar on 14/03/2009 21:14:28
Originally by: Y Berion Edited by: Y Berion on 14/03/2009 20:24:43
Originally by: Boknamar I think there should be an across-the-board reduction in signal strength for all sites [...] It would allow novice explorers to find lower-end sites, while making sure that in order to find better and more profitable ones, they need to be willing to invest more time in skill training.
[...] I do think that high-level astrometrics skills, just like the skills for any other profession, should give a clear and decisive edge.
Sounds fair to me. Not perfect but, fair
Indeed not perfect, and perhaps not even as fair as it could be. This is just kind of my gut reaction to be honest. Before I come to a solid conclusion and come up with specific recommendations, I'm going to test the new system with an alt that has the bare minimum for probing skills. I could be wrong, after all. While it seems clear that the skill dependency of exploration has been decreased, I'm open to the possibility that it is still sufficient to give high-skilled players the proper advantage.
I'm not out to ruin the experience for other players, or even to maintain exploration as a niche profession. I just want high skills to provide a larger advantage than saving a little bit of time in finding sites.
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Armoured C
Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Aggression.
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Posted - 2009.03.14 21:21:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Boknamar Edited by: Boknamar on 14/03/2009 21:14:28
Originally by: Y Berion Edited by: Y Berion on 14/03/2009 20:24:43
Originally by: Boknamar I think there should be an across-the-board reduction in signal strength for all sites [...] It would allow novice explorers to find lower-end sites, while making sure that in order to find better and more profitable ones, they need to be willing to invest more time in skill training.
[...] I do think that high-level astrometrics skills, just like the skills for any other profession, should give a clear and decisive edge.
Sounds fair to me. Not perfect but, fair
Indeed not perfect, and perhaps not even as fair as it could be. This is just kind of my gut reaction to be honest. Before I come to a solid conclusion and come up with specific recommendations, I'm going to test the new system with an alt that has the bare minimum for probing skills. I could be wrong, after all. While it seems clear that the skill dependency of exploration has been decreased, I'm open to the possibility that it is still sufficient to give high-skilled players the proper advantage.
I'm not out to ruin the experience for other players, or even to maintain exploration as a niche profession. I just want high skills to provide a larger advantage than saving a little bit of time in finding sites.
your skill change scan strength mostly
this is helpful scanning with minmal skill will suck bad
This week EvE Life: Wormhole Wars 01/Feb
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Y Berion
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.03.15 03:04:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Armoured C scanning with minmal skill will suck bad
You did some test runs with your alt so you know, or you are just guessing?
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Zey Nadar
Gallente Stormwatch Galactic BlackWater.
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Posted - 2009.03.15 05:48:00 -
[113]
Edited by: Zey Nadar on 15/03/2009 05:51:47
Originally by: Y Berion
Obviously, you haven`t really been in exploration business before, right? Otherwise you -and all other fresh new wannabe explorers here- would know that the old system required much, MUCH more work and player skill than this joke called "new exploration".
This is simply wrong. The old system was obscenely easy, but it was only really practical for those who had been taking time to learn the relevant skills, got isk for sisters probe launcher and so on.
Time-consuming is what the old system was. But you spent most of that time fiddling your fingers waiting for scan to finish. The new system is definitely not as easy as the old one, but it requires more work, it is more engaging. Therefore it is better. And it can offer reward for a beginning prober faster if you learn the mechanics of it.
edit: I admit I havent tried pvp-probing yet, which is where I will propably have more problems compared to the old system. But on the other hand, making pvp-probing require player-skill is propably, again, better than the old system.
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Merdaneth
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.03.15 06:26:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Eventy One
I think this is the point exactly. Astrometrics was something people use to be committed to.
I once spent 90 minutes scanning down a site that rendered 148 data cores (over 100M in loot). It was that investment of time that kept people away / just as it kept people committed.
It was for people with multiple accounts, or for people that did other things while the timer was running. I haven't heard of any people that sat watching at a timer bar running for hours on end.
I spend a lot of time on scanning as well. In once spent about two hours of scanning and I had about 6 decisions to make. None of those where interesting or even remotely challenging decisions.
The less a game relies on timers to create a accessibility threshold, the better. ____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
Zex Maxwell
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.03.15 06:39:00 -
[115]
Originally by: FOl2TY8 Actually you are completely wrong. Before scanning was like mining, train skills drop probes wait, rinse repeat. Now the more skilled you are at positioning your probes the faster the results.
I second that. Now i can get money from mining and scanning now. ---
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Phyrr
Minmatar The Gosimer and Scarab Molotov Coalition
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Posted - 2009.03.15 06:51:00 -
[116]
Edited by: Phyrr on 15/03/2009 06:53:40 Scanning is great now. Sorry but I love being lost and I love the brainpower I have to use actually triangulating rather than having a skill doing it for me. More things in eve need to be less skill based and more player skill dependent imo.
Like in the switch from Morrowind to Oblivion they shifted weapon skills from % chance to hit, so you will always hit, but now the damage is dependent on which way you hit, your fatigue and your skill, the hit landing home is guaranteed.
The old system sucked for 1 main reason. I spent 2 yrs + scanning and you know what, I want that wasted time back. I used to like it, I could do stuff around the house etc etc. But my computer was on and I technically wasn't using it. This was bad for two reasons:
1) My computer is on and I am not using it, waste of energy and tbqfh I give a **** about the ice caps melting.
2) It wasnt playing a game, it was watching a bar go down.
The new scanning system is fun, challenging and most of all INTERACTIVE. CCP needs to expand this to mining too, if only to eliminate macros (which I spent most of my early eve life killing).
As described by An Anarchyyt, the new scanning system is Darwinian. Very apt description imo and very EvE. Join us in the Exploration channel.
The odds on me being here are rather slim evolutionary speaking, yet in the infinite bounds of probability my being here is a certainty. |
Kyra Felann
Gallente Noctis Fleet Technologies
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Posted - 2009.03.15 06:57:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Boknamar I didn't like the old chance based mechanics before, and I always thought that limiting the presence of sites to within 4AU of a planet was artificially constricting. I'm glad to see both those things done away with.
The latter is not done away with. Exploration sites are still within 4 AU of a planet. Haven't read any devblogs, have you? They mention that as a good way to find them.
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Alerion
Freelancer Union Unaffiliated
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Posted - 2009.03.15 07:25:00 -
[118]
Edited by: Alerion on 15/03/2009 07:27:10 I don't think triangulation is the right term really since we are talking 3 dimensions. This seem to better describe the process.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trilateration
and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multilateration
Edit: Oh and I agree with Phyrr, two posts above mine
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Zey Nadar
Gallente Stormwatch Galactic BlackWater.
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Posted - 2009.03.15 07:53:00 -
[119]
Originally by: Kyra Felann Edited by: Kyra Felann on 15/03/2009 07:00:30
Originally by: Boknamar I didn't like the old chance based mechanics before, and I always thought that limiting the presence of sites to within 4AU of a planet was artificially constricting. I'm glad to see both those things done away with.
The latter is not done away with. Exploration sites are still within 4 AU of a planet. Haven't read any recent devblogs, have you? At least one of the ones about the new probing system mention that as a good way to find them.
The devs are on record saying they have removed the 4 AU limit.
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Sin LaSalle
Funk Fu Industries
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Posted - 2009.03.15 07:55:00 -
[120]
As someone who allready has 4.2mil skill point in scanning skills (not including cov ops 5), people like me got shafted.
Regarding PVE : My second alt with 4/4/3 skills can find all the sites my main can, the difficulty needs to be ballenced with the players investment in skills I dont believe it is atm. Other than that it's not to bad, an improvement on the old system but it's far to easy. (Not to mention the 400+ mill in useless hardwirings I now have in my head also).
PVP Scanning : Forget it, old system hand down. As people have mentioned if you target is not afk at a SS your never going to catch them :(
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Y Berion
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.03.15 15:01:00 -
[121]
I have just finished several hours long probing tests with my alt with only basic skills I quickly trained. First I was using Probe then switched it for Thrasher, moving through both high and lowsec. To make long story short, well... in both ships results (time needed to nail down a site) are almost the same as with my main in rigged Cheetah. "Almost" means that I had some minor difficulties with two sites but all that was needed was reducing scan range, closing probes and hitting scan button a couple more times. Few minutes more or less, no big deal.
Now I`m even more convinced that -as Boknamar suggested- CCP should think about decreasing the signal strenght for all sites (leaving the wormholes as they are), or to introduce some new type which would be impossible to find without serious investment in skills and equipment like sisters launchers, rigs and implants.
Come on CCP, this situation is ridiculous. High skills make important difference in all professions, I don`t understand why the exploration must be an exception?
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Dracira Dracc
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Posted - 2009.03.15 15:27:00 -
[122]
The new scanning system is way better then the old one - and you will be happy if your in a system with a collapsed wormhole.
Its hard enough to get the sleepers, the scanning system like it is now is abolutly ok and dont need any tweak.
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Nessaden
Minmatar The Greater Goon Clockwork Pineapple
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Posted - 2009.03.15 16:03:00 -
[123]
Edited by: Nessaden on 15/03/2009 16:07:03
Originally by: Ginako
Originally by: Sirion Fujiwara
Why do I need to sit there and fiddle around with four probes (TRI-angulation???)
Yeah because a triangle can't possible contain four sides *cough* pyramids *cough*
First, Triangles are not pyramids. A triangle is a 2D shape and if it had more than 3 sides it would not be a triangle. A pyramid is not 2D and does not have 3 angles. Second, we're not using triangulation, we're using quadrilateration.
Some people aren't understanding that probes only return the distance from itself to the signature, not what direction. You can't use angles like that.
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