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Whitehound
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Posted - 2009.03.18 16:33:00 -
[61]
Edited by: Whitehound on 18/03/2009 16:35:19
 Originally by: Washell Olivaw
In closing: Where is your evidence, your proof that it has changed? All you're offering is a gut feeling.
Where is your proof that it has not changed? All you have given us is a dumb judgement. If I wanted that I could have come up with it long time ago.
Originally by: VJ Maverick
Chipmunk and Whitehound are apparently both fitted with full racks of "Forum Self-Pwner II."
Stay away from this thread if it is not of interest to you or if it doesn't give you anything!
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If there is anything in your life you fear of losing, then keep your mouth shut once in a while. |
VJ Maverick
Splinter Cell Alfa
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Posted - 2009.03.18 17:19:00 -
[62]
On the contrary, this thread is of great interest, and it gives me what I need - a consistent supply of LOL's from self-proclaimed salvage "experts" who are too proud to know when to STFU and instead keep pontificating nonsense on game mechanics that have been thoroughly researched and understood for a very long time. This thread definitely delivers.
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.03.18 17:56:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Qui Shon
Originally by: Absolom Hues
Originally by: Ch1pmunk
Edited by: Ch1pmunk on 16/03/2009 15:56:58
.....
if the salvage setup worked the way some are thinking.... well... noone would have the skill past lvl 1 and noone would boy the rigs and noone would buy t2. it just wouldnt be woth the millions of isk
Why sure you would train past level 1, because you can not salvage tech II wrecks under skill level 3. Other than speed, there is no need to train above level 3 
Umm, but speed is ALL important, at least when it comes to PvE salvaging.
And for that matter, ninja-salvaging a battlefield. If not more so.
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Whitehound
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Posted - 2009.03.18 18:01:00 -
[64]
Originally by: VJ Maverick
This thread definitely delivers.
And you now delivered sarcasm. Do you know how to deliver anything new? Come back when you do, please.
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If there is anything in your life you fear of losing, then keep your mouth shut once in a while. |
darkbluefirefly
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Posted - 2009.03.22 22:41:00 -
[65]
HEY! Great posts all, until the like second half which made me lost dis-interest.
one question.
Why don't we get a dev to answer this question? After all, they did Developed EVE.. and they "Should" know how it works.. for the sake of clearing things up and not assuming things.
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Seishi Maru
M. Corp
Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.03.22 22:54:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Vindarten
1km means nothing if you're using tractor beams. What does it save you, a whole 2 seconds?
Not worth it, especially because the bonus gets negated by having the Salvaging skill so high.
Try to say that again when you are trying to salvage a Command ship wreck or a t3 ship wreck.... makes Huuuge difference.
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Whitehound
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Posted - 2009.03.23 11:24:00 -
[67]
Originally by: darkbluefirefly
Why don't we get a dev to answer this question?
You better get a teacher. Here is a hint: think of ISK/hour or material/hour and it will not matter any more.
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If there is anything in your life you fear of losing, then keep your mouth shut once in a while. |
Dmitryilyin
Gallente
Risky eXplosion
Red Alliance
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Posted - 2009.03.23 12:35:00 -
[68]
Edited by: Dmitryilyin on 23/03/2009 12:52:30
Edited by: Dmitryilyin on 23/03/2009 12:48:23
Edited by: Dmitryilyin on 23/03/2009 12:43:47
Originally by: Ch1pmunk
Edited by: Ch1pmunk on 15/03/2009 02:49:31
55% chance to get more stuff when salvaging. (with rigs)
Wait, you want to say that Salvage Tackle rigs does increase amount of items from salvaging?
I thought that they increase chance to salvage wrack per try by 10 percent -> faster salvage time, but same income.
So there is 3 theories:
- Increase only percent to open "box" -> faster salvage
- Increase amount of salvaged items. - > more isk per mission
- Increase quality of salvaged items. - more isk per mission
Can anyone say for shure which is right.
I think that 1. |
Whitehound
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Posted - 2009.03.23 15:27:00 -
[69]
Edited by: Whitehound on 23/03/2009 15:31:50
Originally by: Dmitryilyin
Originally by: Ch1pmunk
Edited by: Ch1pmunk on 15/03/2009 02:49:31
55% chance to get more stuff when salvaging. (with rigs)
Wait, you want to say that Salvage Tackle rigs does increase amount of items from salvaging?
You understand correctly, and it is what she said.
Now, here is a fourth rule:
- It increases the average amount of material while it decreases the average amount of time for a salvage.
This is what you will get should the game call the random number generator for example twice - once for the access and once for what you receive. The first random number will decide if you are successful at accessing a wreck. The second one then determines what you get when you are successful. The second random number may still result in no materials being returned - or when the message says that you were successful at accessing the wreck but, unfortunately, nothing could be salvaged.
It is very likely that the game uses multiple calls to the random number generator:
1.) A first call for the success or failure of an access
2.) A second call for the number of materials (only on success)
3.) A call for the type of each material (only on success and for one or more materials)
Having more success means that one gets more material and is faster (on average).
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If there is anything in your life you fear of losing, then keep your mouth shut once in a while. |
Zaknussem
Intrum Industria
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Posted - 2009.03.23 15:45:00 -
[70]
I am not an expert on Salvaging by any means, and I can only relate my experiences of salvaging in the hope that something solid comes of it and shut some people up.
For the longest time I had Salvaging at III. During this time period I salvaged propably thousands of wrecks, most of them small rather than large. Since then I have trained Salvaging to V and upgraded by Salvagers to T2. Here are the facts I have gathered since then:
# If you salvage a wreck of a Rookie Ship or a Shuttle, you only ever get 1 unit of Metal Scraps.
# Even after I trained Salvaging up to V and got myself a Salvager II, this did not change. They still only give 1 unit of Metal Scraps.
# T1 and T2 Frigate (player owned, not NPC wrecks) have a very high chance of giving only 1 unit of Metal Scraps. However, there is also a chance the wreck will also give a couple of units of salvage components. For T1 this can be as many as 4 units (though rarely that much) and up to 2 units for a T2 wreck.
# Again, training up the Salvaging skill and upgrading the Salvager has not changed this for me.
# What defines how much is salvaged from a wreck is the wreck's size, not your skill at Salvaging. Mercenary wrecks (Known in-game as "Generic Mission wreck") almost always give Metal Scraps, with Small wrecks giving 0-2 units, and Large wrecks as many as 16 units.
# With the exceptions of the wreck type determining what types of salvage components you will get (as well as the odds of you getting a particular type of salvage component) and the wreck's size determining roughly how much you should get, the salvaging process is based on random number generation.
Conclusion: I have not seen any evidence that suggests that a higher level of the Salvaging skill increases the amount of salvage received from wrecks. Quite the contrary, in fact.
In addition, there is one other factor of Salvaging I would like to mention, but I do not have any hard facts on that. It is in regards to salvaging T2 wrecks. From what I've heard, salvaging T2 wrecks incurs a 10% penalty on your Salvaging chance, which is why you need at least Salvaging III when dealing with them (as that puts your base success rate at 15%). However, I do not know if you explicitly need Salvaging III for T2 wrecks, or merely a base success rate of 15%. Is it possible for someone with Salvaging at I or II to use a Salvage Tackle rig to salvage T2 wrecks to see whether this is the case? Also, does anyone here know of other wrecks (with certainty, not guesswork) that have a similar penalty to the Salvage success rate? |
Marcus Gideon
Gallente
Excessive Force
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Posted - 2009.03.23 16:13:00 -
[71]
Anybody else think the Salvager II should be able to load a script, that'll turn it into a 5km AoE?
Then you'd just leave it going, and tractor all the wrecks closer to you.
Imagine the typical Destroyer salvaging, with 7 tractors and 1 salvager... |
Kaerik
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Posted - 2009.03.23 16:28:00 -
[72]
I am amazed that this thread is still going and people are STILL wrong about it.
Higher "access difficulty" percentage = greater chance to "unlock" a container each cycle.
That's it, Contents are rolled when the container is spawned, not when it is accessed.
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Whitehound
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Posted - 2009.03.23 17:06:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Zaknussem
Conclusion: I have not seen any evidence that suggests that a higher level of the Salvaging skill increases the amount of salvage received from wrecks. Quite the contrary, in fact.
Quite the contrary? Are you trying to tell people that it gives you less? Because that would be quite the contrary.
Your conclusion is false. The amount that can be found in a single wreck does not increase, and no one has said that IIRC. The fact that you fail less often however will result in more retrievals regardless if you like it or not.
--
If there is anything in your life you fear of losing, then keep your mouth shut once in a while. |
el caido
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2009.03.23 17:19:00 -
[74]
Edited by: el caido on 23/03/2009 17:21:30
This is just sad.
Each level of Salvaging and/or the extra chance bonus of a T2 Salvager only increases the speed of salvaging from a statistical standpoint.
Nothing more, nothing less.
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.03.23 17:21:00 -
[75]
Quote:
I do agree. The time for training salvaging to level 5 will likely find a better use in some other skill. After all, before one can salvage a wreck does one need to create a wreck.
Wrong.
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Whitehound
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Posted - 2009.03.23 17:30:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden
Quote:
I do agree. The time for training salvaging to level 5 will likely find a better use in some other skill. After all, before one can salvage a wreck does one need to create a wreck.
Wrong.
No. You better put the time into some other skills, i.e. gunnery or learning, before you train salvaging to level 5. Or else you will have lots of rookies training the salvaging skill before they can use it.
--
If there is anything in your life you fear of losing, then keep your mouth shut once in a while. |
Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2009.03.23 17:52:00 -
[77]
Edited by: Wet Ferret on 23/03/2009 17:52:56
Originally by: Whitehound
No. You better put the time into some other skills, i.e. gunnery or learning, before you train salvaging to level 5. Or else you will have lots of rookies training the salvaging skill before they can use it.
You're talking to a professional ninja salvager. Only skills he needs are navigation and salvaging 
edit - okay, and enough skills to fly a salvage ship obviously
But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started. |
Whitehound
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Posted - 2009.03.23 18:03:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Wet Ferret
You're talking to a professional ninja salvager. Only skills he needs are navigation and salvaging
You got me there. 
--
If there is anything in your life you fear of losing, then keep your mouth shut once in a while. |
Zaknussem
Intrum Industria
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Posted - 2009.03.23 21:09:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Whitehound
Quite the contrary? Are you trying to tell people that it gives you less? Because that would be quite the contrary.]/quote]
Bad choice of words there on my half, sorry about that. What I was trying to say was that I had only seen evidence that the Salvaging skill had no effect upon how much salvage you got from a wreck. |
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