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| Author | Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
 Rodney Munch    |
Posted - 2004.08.18 22:24:00 -
[391]
You expect me to have chatlogs that far back? Jeez, when were conquerable stations introduced, well done for attempting that route. Like anyones gonna have chatlogs that far back. PA a democracy? Your kiddin right? It never was a democracy, the council meetings amounted too simply you bringing up a list of things you wished to "discuss" where you would simply rabble on about it, then say "this is what we're going to do, any objections?" When there was, they were ignored. Quite simply 99% of the day to day runnings of the PA never made it too the rest of the council members, if something happened you would sort it out there and then, without discussing it with any of us. I dont call that a democracy, I call it putting on a front for the alliance members who wished for a democracy. As to how its run now, I cant comment. |
 Notferr VentureCorp |
Posted - 2004.08.18 22:24:00 -
[392] So PA leadership thought there was a NAP. Halseth was aware of a NAP. Deklein thought there was a NAP and considered PA friendly when fired on but PA, not once, but twice. PA invades. Halseth denies the existance of a NAP. I will adjust my timeline Halseth. - N - Cowboy - Celestial Apocalypse Now hear this, I am selling clues on market in gehi. |
 Rodney Munch Reikoku Band of Brothers |
Posted - 2004.08.18 22:24:00 -
[393]
You expect me to have chatlogs that far back? Jeez, when were conquerable stations introduced, well done for attempting that route. Like anyones gonna have chatlogs that far back. PA a democracy? Your kiddin right? It never was a democracy, the council meetings amounted too simply you bringing up a list of things you wished to "discuss" where you would simply rabble on about it, then say "this is what we're going to do, any objections?" When there was, they were ignored. Quite simply 99% of the day to day runnings of the PA never made it too the rest of the council members, if something happened you would sort it out there and then, without discussing it with any of us. I dont call that a democracy, I call it putting on a front for the alliance members who wished for a democracy. As to how its run now, I cant comment. |
 Anede |
Posted - 2004.08.18 22:29:00 -
[394] Okay guys, we've gone way off topic here. Lets get back to it before this is unstickied and we lose another valuable source of history for everyone. ------------------------------------------------------------------ |
 Anede |
Posted - 2004.08.18 22:29:00 -
[395] Okay guys, we've gone way off topic here. Lets get back to it before this is unstickied and we lose another valuable source of history for everyone. ------------------------------------------------------------------ |
 Anede Reikoku Band of Brothers |
Posted - 2004.08.18 22:29:00 -
[396] Okay guys, we've gone way off topic here. Lets get back to it before this is unstickied and we lose another valuable source of history for everyone. ------------------------------------------------------------------ |
 Notferr |
Posted - 2004.08.18 22:41:00 -
[397] Your right. Not here to fight, just to lay down our side. Hope everyone is enjoying this thread. I think it is an awesome thing. Good job Theious! - N - Cowboy - Celestial Apocalypse Now hear this, I am selling clues on market in gehi. |
Notferr |
Posted - 2004.08.18 22:41:00 -
[398] Your right. Not here to fight, just to lay down our side. Hope everyone is enjoying this thread. I think it is an awesome thing. Good job Theious! - N - Cowboy - Celestial Apocalypse Now hear this, I am selling clues on market in gehi. |
Notferr VentureCorp |
Posted - 2004.08.18 22:41:00 -
[399] Your right. Not here to fight, just to lay down our side. Hope everyone is enjoying this thread. I think it is an awesome thing. Good job Theious! - N - Cowboy - Celestial Apocalypse Now hear this, I am selling clues on market in gehi. |
Destable |
Posted - 2004.08.18 22:45:00 -
[400] Back to the main topic. This is a cut/paste from a post I made June 2nd, which gives the history of COD & PA from my personal perspective. The original post can be found here: Destable on COD & PA history..... There have been many posts in the last few days about how COD has betrayed it's "friend", the PA. People have even gone so far as to name COD and FU traitor alliances. I don't see how PA and COD were ever friends, by even the loosest interpretation of the word. While COD certainly liked the concept of a unified north enough to want to see an agreement like NAST work, the history between COD and PA had been anything but friendly.... I'll point out some of my observations that bring me to this conclusion. 1. PA requests use of COD border station as an ammo dump in thier war with EVOL. COD agrees immediatly. (how friendly of us) 2. Weeks later, a pilot from Exodus corp (COD) is destroyed by a pilot from Cataclysm Enterprises in pure blind. A complaint is made with CE and PA. 3. Days later, a pilot from VentureCorp is destoryed by a pilot from Cataclysm Enterprises in pure blind. A complaint is made with CE and PA. 4. The complaints from these indidents are officially ignored, but convos with both CE and a number of PA directors yield a similar response: That PA member activities are not the responsibility of PA when the member corps are not in PA space. COD drops these incidents completely at this point in the interest of peace. 5. Time goes by.... 6. Rona-Kia (PA) begins waging war on our ally, RSA (now Fade Union) over some small incident. Can't remember what it was, but the price to end the war was a single lvl 2 BS. COD stays neutral to this conflict. 7. Rona-Kia (PA) suddenly attacks COD and captures our refinery station. They then withdraw from COD space, with the provision that they retain control of the refinery station. In the interest of figuring out what prompted the attack in the first place, COD does not initiate any further agression. 8. After a few days of no response to requests to discuss this matter, COD re-captures it's refinery. PA immediatly attacks COD again, and indicates that due to our re-capture, they intend to keep the station forever (essentially wanting to rule COD?) 9. Massive forum war begins, at which time, PA states it's reasoning behind the original attack. The reason given was that, because we were allies with Fade, if they attacked COD we might put pressure on Fade to give in to the demands of PA (remember, 1 lvl 2 BS) and end the conflict. 10. Popular opinion seems to be overwhelmingly against PA, and suddenly, they say "we didn't want your station anyway" and end hostilities. 11. Within days, PA is visiting COD space (without permission) for a very different reason. To be very very very friendly. They invite us to mining ops, offer to run protection for mining ops, and state that they are here to generaly smooth things over at Halseths request. A little uncomfortable with the sudden change of situation, COD is a bit non-responsive. 12. Time Passes..... 13. COD is contacted by PA and asks us if we would like to apply for a NAP with them. I personally found this ironic, as since THEY were contacting US, I would have thought it would be the other way around. But we said, "sure, yes" and after 6 days deliberation, PA agreed the give COD the NAP that we had asked for. 14. Time passes with almost no interaction between COD and PA..... 15. PA declares Tribute/Vale "free" regions. 16. PA presents NAST treaty to both COD and FU. The dream of a unified north is too good to pass up and we sign. 17. COD members express thier discomfort in light of the Cataclysm enterprise issues that were left unresolved months before. The old complaints were re-submitted to Robeyone and Halseth. I was personnaly assured that the matter would be fully investigated and action would be taken. Never heard another thing. 17. COD receives a copy of the NAST treaty, which is essentially a mutual protection pact, nothing more. 18. Within weeks, PA re-declares Tribute/Vale "free" regions under the NAST banner. I proceed to complain on the newly created NAST forums that nothing in our copy of the NAST treaty mentions Tribute or Vale, and indicated that I was a bit upset at them using NAST as a way to legitimize policy that had not been officially discussed. I was told that the copy I had (official COD copy) was the "draft". My concern are dismissed and essentially fall from view. I drop the issue, since I had no problem with the "free" regtions at all, only the way it was done. 19. Tensions escalate between RKK and PA. RKK is a very good friend to COD and FU, so I make an honest attempt to help mediate the dispute. From Galavet I get Mature responses. From PA, I get smacktalk, and statements like "COD is going to place the interest of 1 friend over |
Destable |
Posted - 2004.08.18 22:45:00 -
[401] Back to the main topic. This is a cut/paste from a post I made June 2nd, which gives the history of COD & PA from my personal perspective. The original post can be found here: Destable on COD & PA history..... There have been many posts in the last few days about how COD has betrayed it's "friend", the PA. People have even gone so far as to name COD and FU traitor alliances. I don't see how PA and COD were ever friends, by even the loosest interpretation of the word. While COD certainly liked the concept of a unified north enough to want to see an agreement like NAST work, the history between COD and PA had been anything but friendly.... I'll point out some of my observations that bring me to this conclusion. 1. PA requests use of COD border station as an ammo dump in thier war with EVOL. COD agrees immediatly. (how friendly of us) 2. Weeks later, a pilot from Exodus corp (COD) is destroyed by a pilot from Cataclysm Enterprises in pure blind. A complaint is made with CE and PA. 3. Days later, a pilot from VentureCorp is destoryed by a pilot from Cataclysm Enterprises in pure blind. A complaint is made with CE and PA. 4. The complaints from these indidents are officially ignored, but convos with both CE and a number of PA directors yield a similar response: That PA member activities are not the responsibility of PA when the member corps are not in PA space. COD drops these incidents completely at this point in the interest of peace. 5. Time goes by.... 6. Rona-Kia (PA) begins waging war on our ally, RSA (now Fade Union) over some small incident. Can't remember what it was, but the price to end the war was a single lvl 2 BS. COD stays neutral to this conflict. 7. Rona-Kia (PA) suddenly attacks COD and captures our refinery station. They then withdraw from COD space, with the provision that they retain control of the refinery station. In the interest of figuring out what prompted the attack in the first place, COD does not initiate any further agression. 8. After a few days of no response to requests to discuss this matter, COD re-captures it's refinery. PA immediatly attacks COD again, and indicates that due to our re-capture, they intend to keep the station forever (essentially wanting to rule COD?) 9. Massive forum war begins, at which time, PA states it's reasoning behind the original attack. The reason given was that, because we were allies with Fade, if they attacked COD we might put pressure on Fade to give in to the demands of PA (remember, 1 lvl 2 BS) and end the conflict. 10. Popular opinion seems to be overwhelmingly against PA, and suddenly, they say "we didn't want your station anyway" and end hostilities. 11. Within days, PA is visiting COD space (without permission) for a very different reason. To be very very very friendly. They invite us to mining ops, offer to run protection for mining ops, and state that they are here to generaly smooth things over at Halseths request. A little uncomfortable with the sudden change of situation, COD is a bit non-responsive. 12. Time Passes..... 13. COD is contacted by PA and asks us if we would like to apply for a NAP with them. I personally found this ironic, as since THEY were contacting US, I would have thought it would be the other way around. But we said, "sure, yes" and after 6 days deliberation, PA agreed the give COD the NAP that we had asked for. 14. Time passes with almost no interaction between COD and PA..... 15. PA declares Tribute/Vale "free" regions. 16. PA presents NAST treaty to both COD and FU. The dream of a unified north is too good to pass up and we sign. 17. COD members express thier discomfort in light of the Cataclysm enterprise issues that were left unresolved months before. The old complaints were re-submitted to Robeyone and Halseth. I was personnaly assured that the matter would be fully investigated and action would be taken. Never heard another thing. 17. COD receives a copy of the NAST treaty, which is essentially a mutual protection pact, nothing more. 18. Within weeks, PA re-declares Tribute/Vale "free" regions under the NAST banner. I proceed to complain on the newly created NAST forums that nothing in our copy of the NAST treaty mentions Tribute or Vale, and indicated that I was a bit upset at them using NAST as a way to legitimize policy that had not been officially discussed. I was told that the copy I had (official COD copy) was the "draft". My concern are dismissed and essentially fall from view. I drop the issue, since I had no problem with the "free" regtions at all, only the way it was done. 19. Tensions escalate between RKK and PA. RKK is a very good friend to COD and FU, so I make an honest attempt to help mediate the dispute. From Galavet I get Mature responses. From PA, I get smacktalk, and statements like "COD is going to place the interest of 1 friend over |
 Destable Caldari VentureCorp Imperial Republic Of the North |
Posted - 2004.08.18 22:45:00 -
[402] Back to the main topic. This is a cut/paste from a post I made June 2nd, which gives the history of COD & PA from my personal perspective. The original post can be found here: Destable on COD & PA history..... There have been many posts in the last few days about how COD has betrayed it's "friend", the PA. People have even gone so far as to name COD and FU traitor alliances. I don't see how PA and COD were ever friends, by even the loosest interpretation of the word. While COD certainly liked the concept of a unified north enough to want to see an agreement like NAST work, the history between COD and PA had been anything but friendly.... I'll point out some of my observations that bring me to this conclusion. 1. PA requests use of COD border station as an ammo dump in thier war with EVOL. COD agrees immediatly. (how friendly of us) 2. Weeks later, a pilot from Exodus corp (COD) is destroyed by a pilot from Cataclysm Enterprises in pure blind. A complaint is made with CE and PA. 3. Days later, a pilot from VentureCorp is destoryed by a pilot from Cataclysm Enterprises in pure blind. A complaint is made with CE and PA. 4. The complaints from these indidents are officially ignored, but convos with both CE and a number of PA directors yield a similar response: That PA member activities are not the responsibility of PA when the member corps are not in PA space. COD drops these incidents completely at this point in the interest of peace. 5. Time goes by.... 6. Rona-Kia (PA) begins waging war on our ally, RSA (now Fade Union) over some small incident. Can't remember what it was, but the price to end the war was a single lvl 2 BS. COD stays neutral to this conflict. 7. Rona-Kia (PA) suddenly attacks COD and captures our refinery station. They then withdraw from COD space, with the provision that they retain control of the refinery station. In the interest of figuring out what prompted the attack in the first place, COD does not initiate any further agression. 8. After a few days of no response to requests to discuss this matter, COD re-captures it's refinery. PA immediatly attacks COD again, and indicates that due to our re-capture, they intend to keep the station forever (essentially wanting to rule COD?) 9. Massive forum war begins, at which time, PA states it's reasoning behind the original attack. The reason given was that, because we were allies with Fade, if they attacked COD we might put pressure on Fade to give in to the demands of PA (remember, 1 lvl 2 BS) and end the conflict. 10. Popular opinion seems to be overwhelmingly against PA, and suddenly, they say "we didn't want your station anyway" and end hostilities. 11. Within days, PA is visiting COD space (without permission) for a very different reason. To be very very very friendly. They invite us to mining ops, offer to run protection for mining ops, and state that they are here to generaly smooth things over at Halseths request. A little uncomfortable with the sudden change of situation, COD is a bit non-responsive. 12. Time Passes..... 13. COD is contacted by PA and asks us if we would like to apply for a NAP with them. I personally found this ironic, as since THEY were contacting US, I would have thought it would be the other way around. But we said, "sure, yes" and after 6 days deliberation, PA agreed the give COD the NAP that we had asked for. 14. Time passes with almost no interaction between COD and PA..... 15. PA declares Tribute/Vale "free" regions. 16. PA presents NAST treaty to both COD and FU. The dream of a unified north is too good to pass up and we sign. 17. COD members express thier discomfort in light of the Cataclysm enterprise issues that were left unresolved months before. The old complaints were re-submitted to Robeyone and Halseth. I was personnaly assured that the matter would be fully investigated and action would be taken. Never heard another thing. 17. COD receives a copy of the NAST treaty, which is essentially a mutual protection pact, nothing more. 18. Within weeks, PA re-declares Tribute/Vale "free" regions under the NAST banner. I proceed to complain on the newly created NAST forums that nothing in our copy of the NAST treaty mentions Tribute or Vale, and indicated that I was a bit upset at them using NAST as a way to legitimize policy that had not been officially discussed. I was told that the copy I had (official COD copy) was the "draft". My concern are dismissed and essentially fall from view. I drop the issue, since I had no problem with the "free" regtions at all, only the way it was done. 19. Tensions escalate between RKK and PA. RKK is a very good friend to COD and FU, so I make an honest attempt to help mediate the dispute. From Galavet I get Mature responses. From PA, I get smacktalk, and statements like "COD is going to place the interest of 1 friend over |
 Destable |
Posted - 2004.08.18 22:46:00 -
[403] 20. COD informs PA that we will in no way assist them in a war with RKK, and that, since PA knew of the close relationship between us before NAST, it was a bit silly of them to expect us to abandon our friend. 21. Halseth returns, and someone actually speaks maturely for the PA side. Tensions relax. Promises are made. Sanctions are given. 22. Halseth leaves, sanctions are broken, war breaks out. PA indicates in chat channels that COD had better not abandon thier "friend" (PA I'm assuming) in it's time of need. 23. COD, respectful of the NAST agreement, closes it's space, and helps to control the southern PA borders while we take the time to gather all of the facts in the war. 24. COD reviews all facts available, has TS discussions with all sides including CDI personel, and decides that the war against PA is just. 25. COD expels PA from the NAST treaty. 26. COD enters the war due to PA agression towards our NAST ally FU. Where, in the history of the relationship between COD and PA was there ever anything that represents "friendship" I can't see any, but I can name 100's of examples of friendship between COD, FU, RKK and JF. Anyway, just my personal perspective.... end paste from June 2nd. Hope this helps!!! Dest |
 Destable |
Posted - 2004.08.18 22:46:00 -
[404] 20. COD informs PA that we will in no way assist them in a war with RKK, and that, since PA knew of the close relationship between us before NAST, it was a bit silly of them to expect us to abandon our friend. 21. Halseth returns, and someone actually speaks maturely for the PA side. Tensions relax. Promises are made. Sanctions are given. 22. Halseth leaves, sanctions are broken, war breaks out. PA indicates in chat channels that COD had better not abandon thier "friend" (PA I'm assuming) in it's time of need. 23. COD, respectful of the NAST agreement, closes it's space, and helps to control the southern PA borders while we take the time to gather all of the facts in the war. 24. COD reviews all facts available, has TS discussions with all sides including CDI personel, and decides that the war against PA is just. 25. COD expels PA from the NAST treaty. 26. COD enters the war due to PA agression towards our NAST ally FU. Where, in the history of the relationship between COD and PA was there ever anything that represents "friendship" I can't see any, but I can name 100's of examples of friendship between COD, FU, RKK and JF. Anyway, just my personal perspective.... end paste from June 2nd. Hope this helps!!! Dest |
Destable Caldari VentureCorp Imperial Republic Of the North |
Posted - 2004.08.18 22:46:00 -
[405] 20. COD informs PA that we will in no way assist them in a war with RKK, and that, since PA knew of the close relationship between us before NAST, it was a bit silly of them to expect us to abandon our friend. 21. Halseth returns, and someone actually speaks maturely for the PA side. Tensions relax. Promises are made. Sanctions are given. 22. Halseth leaves, sanctions are broken, war breaks out. PA indicates in chat channels that COD had better not abandon thier "friend" (PA I'm assuming) in it's time of need. 23. COD, respectful of the NAST agreement, closes it's space, and helps to control the southern PA borders while we take the time to gather all of the facts in the war. 24. COD reviews all facts available, has TS discussions with all sides including CDI personel, and decides that the war against PA is just. 25. COD expels PA from the NAST treaty. 26. COD enters the war due to PA agression towards our NAST ally FU. Where, in the history of the relationship between COD and PA was there ever anything that represents "friendship" I can't see any, but I can name 100's of examples of friendship between COD, FU, RKK and JF. Anyway, just my personal perspective.... end paste from June 2nd. Hope this helps!!! Dest |
Halseth |
Posted - 2004.08.18 23:12:00 -
[406] -Up until the moment RKK fired the first shots of this war, I had my finger on the button to reactivate the vote to remove CDI pending any violations against thier sanctions. The vote would have resumed right where it had left off with a 12-4 vote for removal as well. The very second RKK fired those first shots, and stated that this was war until we removed CDI from our ranks, CDI was bound to the PA as much as any other member corp. What kind of alliance and friends would we be if we allowed external corporations to dictate our member list through th use of force? -Halseth |
 Halseth |
Posted - 2004.08.18 23:12:00 -
[407] Edited by: Halseth on 18/08/2004 23:14:42 From what I see, the NCA (JF, CoD, FU, NORAD, Reikoku) are citing one issue alone as the main cause for this war. Jade has also used this fabricated timeline to base a smear campaign aginst Oberon, RONA, and RONA-KIA calling us "oathbreakers, "liars, "scoundrels" ect, ect. This, of course is the infamous TS meeting where we said that "CDI will shape up, or else". Infact I believe that it was grimster who originally brought it up and pointerd to it as the main reason for the war in this very thread. I would now like to address this subject one more time because the amount of spin put on this seems to have clouded the judgement of those in the NCA. So, here is my accounting of the events as they unfolded concerning this much talked about incident. -CDI pull some "questionable" stunts in Tribute. This ****es of a lot of people who all ready have their feelings hurt because they mistakenly thought we were trying to grab some land/glory with a pleadge to help keep Trib/Vale clear. -Tensions escalate to the point where we hear that RKK, celest, JF and our new allies CoD and FU are considering military action against the PA. -A TS meeting is called to address this problem and avoid the war that niether of us want. -During this meeting it is promised by Myself, Robeyone, and KIAINKZ that CDI will shape up or ship out. And if CDI cannot be shipped out, our corps will leave the PA in protest. (looking back at this meeting, I recall Jade asking repeatedly "are you sure you are promising that??" I could literaly hear him drooling and ringing his hands)  -Shortly after this incident, CDI puts the PA in the "hot seat" once more. -Action is taken immediately in PA councill against CDI. I propose a vote for immediate expulsion of the CDI corp with a 5 day voting period. After 3 days, the vote stands at 12 for expulsion and 4 votes against. -At this point, CDI C.E.O. Krulls makes a very heartfelt and moving public appology in this forum to anyone who feels they have been wronged by his corporation. He also opens the doors for restitution to be paid to any and all who feel they are intitled. -This appology is widely recieved on this forum as "very acceptable" from representatives from JF, RKK, CoD and FU. -This same sentiment is echoed within the council chambers of the PA and many urge me to retract my vote for expulsion. -I agree to retract my motion for expilsion in exchange for a strict guidline of sanctions against CDI. -The conditions for sanction are then posted on this forum and heralded by all as "great news" and a positive step for alliance leadership. also, the conditions for CDIs sanctions were spelled out to the letter along with a reiteration that the PAs official point of contact is through our forums at www.newvenal.org. -To the PA, the situation is now difussed and order and calm begins to return to the northern relationships. Now before I continue, I would like to paint a picture of what my job entails. Everytime someone sneezes and the PA doesnt say "bless-you" some calls me to complain. Everytime someone in the PA J-walks, someone calls me to complain. Whenever a ship is destroyed in CFS space and the attackers brother has a friend who is in the PA, someone calls me to complain. PEOPLE CANT WAIT to call me whenever the hear, see, smell, touch, or taste something about the PA they dont like. -11 days later the RKK corporation (while under a +10 sec standing) open fire on PA pilots in the EC-P8R system. Hours later, RKK CEO galavet declares war onthe PA citing a violation of those sanctions. (personally, I believe that the RKK pilots acted on thier own accord forcing Galavets hand into a decision of either declaring war or offering up a very big appology) This is my POV of events and how they unfolded alond with some short editorial thrown in to break up its sterile form. This being said, I would like to point out a few facts that I feel are being misrepresented. -AT NO TIME WHATSOEVER was I or the Phoenix Alliance ever contacted and told that the CDI corporation had ever broken their sanctions. Honestly, the declaration of war by Galavet was the first I had heard of it. -NCA claim that Myself, Robeyone, and KIAINKZ broke an oath stating that "We would leave the PA if CDI broke their sanctions". We said they would shape up or else there would be a vote to remove them and if that vote went CDIs way, we ( our 3 corps) would be leaving . How can we make an oath concerning another corp breaking sanctions LONG BEFOREthose sanctions were ever even concieved? How? Someone please answer this one. Continued....... |
 Halseth |
Posted - 2004.08.18 23:12:00 -
[408] Edited by: Halseth on 18/08/2004 23:14:42 From what I see, the NCA (JF, CoD, FU, NORAD, Reikoku) are citing one issue alone as the main cause for this war. Jade has also used this fabricated timeline to base a smear campaign aginst Oberon, RONA, and RONA-KIA calling us "oathbreakers, "liars, "scoundrels" ect, ect. This, of course is the infamous TS meeting where we said that "CDI will shape up, or else". Infact I believe that it was grimster who originally brought it up and pointerd to it as the main reason for the war in this very thread. I would now like to address this subject one more time because the amount of spin put on this seems to have clouded the judgement of those in the NCA. So, here is my accounting of the events as they unfolded concerning this much talked about incident. -CDI pull some "questionable" stunts in Tribute. This ****es of a lot of people who all ready have their feelings hurt because they mistakenly thought we were trying to grab some land/glory with a pleadge to help keep Trib/Vale clear. -Tensions escalate to the point where we hear that RKK, celest, JF and our new allies CoD and FU are considering military action against the PA. -A TS meeting is called to address this problem and avoid the war that niether of us want. -During this meeting it is promised by Myself, Robeyone, and KIAINKZ that CDI will shape up or ship out. And if CDI cannot be shipped out, our corps will leave the PA in protest. (looking back at this meeting, I recall Jade asking repeatedly "are you sure you are promising that??" I could literaly hear him drooling and ringing his hands) -Shortly after this incident, CDI puts the PA in the "hot seat" once more. -Action is taken immediately in PA councill against CDI. I propose a vote for immediate expulsion of the CDI corp with a 5 day voting period. After 3 days, the vote stands at 12 for expulsion and 4 votes against. -At this point, CDI C.E.O. Krulls makes a very heartfelt and moving public appology in this forum to anyone who feels they have been wronged by his corporation. He also opens the doors for restitution to be paid to any and all who feel they are intitled. -This appology is widely recieved on this forum as "very acceptable" from representatives from JF, RKK, CoD and FU. -This same sentiment is echoed within the council chambers of the PA and many urge me to retract my vote for expulsion. -I agree to retract my motion for expilsion in exchange for a strict guidline of sanctions against CDI. -The conditions for sanction are then posted on this forum and heralded by all as "great news" and a positive step for alliance leadership. also, the conditions for CDIs sanctions were spelled out to the letter along with a reiteration that the PAs official point of contact is through our forums at www.newvenal.org. -To the PA, the situation is now difussed and order and calm begins to return to the northern relationships. Now before I continue, I would like to paint a picture of what my job entails. Everytime someone sneezes and the PA doesnt say "bless-you" some calls me to complain. Everytime someone in the PA J-walks, someone calls me to complain. Whenever a ship is destroyed in CFS space and the attackers brother has a friend who is in the PA, someone calls me to complain. PEOPLE CANT WAIT to call me whenever the hear, see, smell, touch, or taste something about the PA they dont like. -11 days later the RKK corporation (while under a +10 sec standing) open fire on PA pilots in the EC-P8R system. Hours later, RKK CEO galavet declares war onthe PA citing a violation of those sanctions. (personally, I believe that the RKK pilots acted on thier own accord forcing Galavets hand into a decision of either declaring war or offering up a very big appology) This is my POV of events and how they unfolded alond with some short editorial thrown in to break up its sterile form. This being said, I would like to point out a few facts that I feel are being misrepresented. -AT NO TIME WHATSOEVER was I or the Phoenix Alliance ever contacted and told that the CDI corporation had ever broken their sanctions. Honestly, the declaration of war by Galavet was the first I had heard of it. -NCA claim that Myself, Robeyone, and KIAINKZ broke an oath stating that "We would leave the PA if CDI broke their sanctions". We said they would shape up or else there would be a vote to remove them and if that vote went CDIs way, we ( our 3 corps) would be leaving . How can we make an oath concerning another corp breaking sanctions LONG BEFOREthose sanctions were ever even concieved? How? Someone please answer this one. Continued....... |
Halseth |
Posted - 2004.08.18 23:12:00 -
[409] -Up until the moment RKK fired the first shots of this war, I had my finger on the button to reactivate the vote to remove CDI pending any violations against thier sanctions. The vote would have resumed right where it had left off with a 12-4 vote for removal as well. The very second RKK fired those first shots, and stated that this was war until we removed CDI from our ranks, CDI was bound to the PA as much as any other member corp. What kind of alliance and friends would we be if we allowed external corporations to dictate our member list through th use of force? -Halseth |
 Halseth Amarr Doomheim |
Posted - 2004.08.18 23:12:00 -
[410] Edited by: Halseth on 18/08/2004 23:14:42 From what I see, the NCA (JF, CoD, FU, NORAD, Reikoku) are citing one issue alone as the main cause for this war. Jade has also used this fabricated timeline to base a smear campaign aginst Oberon, RONA, and RONA-KIA calling us "oathbreakers, "liars, "scoundrels" ect, ect. This, of course is the infamous TS meeting where we said that "CDI will shape up, or else". Infact I believe that it was grimster who originally brought it up and pointerd to it as the main reason for the war in this very thread. I would now like to address this subject one more time because the amount of spin put on this seems to have clouded the judgement of those in the NCA. So, here is my accounting of the events as they unfolded concerning this much talked about incident. -CDI pull some "questionable" stunts in Tribute. This ****es of a lot of people who all ready have their feelings hurt because they mistakenly thought we were trying to grab some land/glory with a pleadge to help keep Trib/Vale clear. -Tensions escalate to the point where we hear that RKK, celest, JF and our new allies CoD and FU are considering military action against the PA. -A TS meeting is called to address this problem and avoid the war that niether of us want. -During this meeting it is promised by Myself, Robeyone, and KIAINKZ that CDI will shape up or ship out. And if CDI cannot be shipped out, our corps will leave the PA in protest. (looking back at this meeting, I recall Jade asking repeatedly "are you sure you are promising that??" I could literaly hear him drooling and ringing his hands) -Shortly after this incident, CDI puts the PA in the "hot seat" once more. -Action is taken immediately in PA councill against CDI. I propose a vote for immediate expulsion of the CDI corp with a 5 day voting period. After 3 days, the vote stands at 12 for expulsion and 4 votes against. -At this point, CDI C.E.O. Krulls makes a very heartfelt and moving public appology in this forum to anyone who feels they have been wronged by his corporation. He also opens the doors for restitution to be paid to any and all who feel they are intitled. -This appology is widely recieved on this forum as "very acceptable" from representatives from JF, RKK, CoD and FU. -This same sentiment is echoed within the council chambers of the PA and many urge me to retract my vote for expulsion. -I agree to retract my motion for expilsion in exchange for a strict guidline of sanctions against CDI. -The conditions for sanction are then posted on this forum and heralded by all as "great news" and a positive step for alliance leadership. also, the conditions for CDIs sanctions were spelled out to the letter along with a reiteration that the PAs official point of contact is through our forums at www.newvenal.org. -To the PA, the situation is now difussed and order and calm begins to return to the northern relationships. Now before I continue, I would like to paint a picture of what my job entails. Everytime someone sneezes and the PA doesnt say "bless-you" some calls me to complain. Everytime someone in the PA J-walks, someone calls me to complain. Whenever a ship is destroyed in CFS space and the attackers brother has a friend who is in the PA, someone calls me to complain. PEOPLE CANT WAIT to call me whenever the hear, see, smell, touch, or taste something about the PA they dont like. -11 days later the RKK corporation (while under a +10 sec standing) open fire on PA pilots in the EC-P8R system. Hours later, RKK CEO galavet declares war onthe PA citing a violation of those sanctions. (personally, I believe that the RKK pilots acted on thier own accord forcing Galavets hand into a decision of either declaring war or offering up a very big appology) This is my POV of events and how they unfolded alond with some short editorial thrown in to break up its sterile form. This being said, I would like to point out a few facts that I feel are being misrepresented. -AT NO TIME WHATSOEVER was I or the Phoenix Alliance ever contacted and told that the CDI corporation had ever broken their sanctions. Honestly, the declaration of war by Galavet was the first I had heard of it. -NCA claim that Myself, Robeyone, and KIAINKZ broke an oath stating that "We would leave the PA if CDI broke their sanctions". We said they would shape up or else there would be a vote to remove them and if that vote went CDIs way, we ( our 3 corps) would be leaving . How can we make an oath concerning another corp breaking sanctions LONG BEFOREthose sanctions were ever even concieved? How? Someone please answer this one. Continued....... |
Halseth Amarr Doomheim |
Posted - 2004.08.18 23:12:00 -
[411] -Up until the moment RKK fired the first shots of this war, I had my finger on the button to reactivate the vote to remove CDI pending any violations against thier sanctions. The vote would have resumed right where it had left off with a 12-4 vote for removal as well. The very second RKK fired those first shots, and stated that this was war until we removed CDI from our ranks, CDI was bound to the PA as much as any other member corp. What kind of alliance and friends would we be if we allowed external corporations to dictate our member list through th use of force? -Halseth |
 GsDaddy |
Posted - 2004.08.18 23:17:00 -
[412]
Clearly, one that values its sovereignty more than its principles. |
 GsDaddy |
Posted - 2004.08.18 23:17:00 -
[413]
Clearly, one that values its sovereignty more than its principles. |
 GsDaddy |
Posted - 2004.08.18 23:17:00 -
[414]
Clearly, one that values its sovereignty more than its principles. |
Halseth |
Posted - 2004.08.18 23:26:00 -
[415]
In our eyes, CDI was innocent until shown guilty. We value our soverignty AND our princepals and will fight to protect both. |
Halseth |
Posted - 2004.08.18 23:26:00 -
[416]
In our eyes, CDI was innocent until shown guilty. We value our soverignty AND our princepals and will fight to protect both. |
Halseth Amarr Doomheim |
Posted - 2004.08.18 23:26:00 -
[417]
In our eyes, CDI was innocent until shown guilty. We value our soverignty AND our princepals and will fight to protect both. |
Destable |
Posted - 2004.08.18 23:28:00 -
[418] Halseth, Excellent post. I can't find anything wrong with the timeline or facts you just presented re: the CDI situation. One small addition to it: In the day(ish?) between CDI breaking thier sanctions, and RKK firing on PA, I was in a TS convo where CDI CEO (Krullz?) was present and did admit to breaking the sanctions (travelling in an unarmed frigate through tribute). Don't have anything but my word on that...... One other clarification: COD did not enter the war because of the CDI issue primarily (though others did). We entered it to support the side with which we had a long and historic friendship with (FU, RKK, JF), as well as to a certain extent, make a statement of protest about the grievances I listed above. We were called betrayers and backstabbers by PA, but from our perspective, that would have only been truth had we sided with the PA. Respectfully, |
Destable |
Posted - 2004.08.18 23:28:00 -
[419] Halseth, Excellent post. I can't find anything wrong with the timeline or facts you just presented re: the CDI situation. One small addition to it: In the day(ish?) between CDI breaking thier sanctions, and RKK firing on PA, I was in a TS convo where CDI CEO (Krullz?) was present and did admit to breaking the sanctions (travelling in an unarmed frigate through tribute). Don't have anything but my word on that...... One other clarification: COD did not enter the war because of the CDI issue primarily (though others did). We entered it to support the side with which we had a long and historic friendship with (FU, RKK, JF), as well as to a certain extent, make a statement of protest about the grievances I listed above. We were called betrayers and backstabbers by PA, but from our perspective, that would have only been truth had we sided with the PA. Respectfully, |
Destable Caldari VentureCorp Imperial Republic Of the North |
Posted - 2004.08.18 23:28:00 -
[420] Halseth, Excellent post. I can't find anything wrong with the timeline or facts you just presented re: the CDI situation. One small addition to it: In the day(ish?) between CDI breaking thier sanctions, and RKK firing on PA, I was in a TS convo where CDI CEO (Krullz?) was present and did admit to breaking the sanctions (travelling in an unarmed frigate through tribute). Don't have anything but my word on that...... One other clarification: COD did not enter the war because of the CDI issue primarily (though others did). We entered it to support the side with which we had a long and historic friendship with (FU, RKK, JF), as well as to a certain extent, make a statement of protest about the grievances I listed above. We were called betrayers and backstabbers by PA, but from our perspective, that would have only been truth had we sided with the PA. Respectfully, |
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