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Semkhet
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2009.03.20 08:31:00 -
[1]
Using a Pilgrim with 2 TD's, I have not lost a single med or lil drone to date. The trick is to TD a target BEFORE the drones are ordered to engage said target. You must watch when the target goes down because then you must redirect your drones on the next target+TD asap, which is the reason why you need at least 2x TD's to generate a constant rolling tracking disruption. If at any moment you let your drones engage a sleeper which is NOT ALREADY track disrupted, your drones take damage and eventually pop.
This brings two observations: since the number of TD's is (almost) always inferior to the number of sleepers, and since TD'ing the target your drones are engaging prevent them to take any kind of damage whatsoever, it can only mean that:
- Effectively, as soon you're TD'ing a group of sleepers, you become a priority target. - Your drones are only targeted back by the same sleeper you put your drones on, no other Sleeper will target them.
That way, a Pilgrim can solo lower class wormholes:
- Warp cloaked and go quietly at least at 80 Km from the Sleepers. - Uncloak and target the frigs. - TD the frigs. - Let the frigs reach the maximum engagement range of your lil drones. - Drop and order the drones to engage a target you have actually a TD on. - As soon that Sleeper pop, redirect your drones on the next TD'ed target. - TD another frig. - Rinse & repeat until all frigs are done. - Do the same with cruisers using med drones. - BS go down too slowly with only 5 meds to be worth.
To do this you need a perma-repping setup + enough buffer & resists + speed to somewhat tank the missiles, this fit remain stable at 40% (AB, MAR + TD's on):
Lows: 1600mm tungsten plate, 2x Amarr Navy EANM, Copro II, Greaves MAR Mids: 10MN AB II, 2x Balmer TD with range script, Codebreaker, DB CPR Highs: Sister Probe launcher, Cov Ops cloak II, Salvager, Tractor beam Rigs: 2x Semiconductor Memory Cell
Since you don't need logistics because you won't loose your drones so long you are careful, this fit allows you to stay indefinitely in the WH, and probes + covop cloak allow for easy dodging of hostile camps & gangs coming in the same space.
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Travarica
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Posted - 2009.03.20 09:35:00 -
[2]
Assuming all this is correct, very nice find, thank you dear sir, you returned faith in my Ishtar as possible WH boat.
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Narfas Deteis
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Posted - 2009.03.20 09:48:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Narfas Deteis on 20/03/2009 09:49:00
Originally by: Semkhet
Lows: 1600mm tungsten plate, 2x Amarr Navy EANM, Copro II, Greaves MAR Mids: 10MN AB II, 2x Balmer TD with range script, Codebreaker, DB CPR Highs: Sister Probe launcher, Cov Ops cloak II, Salvager, Tractor beam Rigs: 2x Semiconductor Memory Cell
Lows: 1600mm tungsten, 2 x faction adaptive nano (not energized), DC, T2 MAR Mids: 10mn AB T2, 2 x Balmer, Codebreaker/Analyzer, Large Peroxide battery Highs: Core launcher, covops cloak, salvager, medium nos/neut or remote rep Rigs: aux. nano pump, CCC
A bit better and way cheaper tank wihout co-proc. All you need is Recons on 4. Cap stable ofc. :)
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Tsukoshi
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Posted - 2009.03.20 10:11:00 -
[4]
Just change your drones setting from aggressive to passive. Then you don't need to worry about them attacking a target you haven't disrupted yet and only need 1 disruptor.
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Semkhet
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2009.03.20 10:41:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Narfas Deteis
Lows: 1600mm tungsten, 2 x faction adaptive nano (not energized), DC, T2 MAR Mids: 10mn AB T2, 2 x Balmer, Codebreaker/Analyzer, Large Peroxide battery Highs: Core launcher, covops cloak, salvager, medium nos/neut or remote rep Rigs: aux. nano pump, CCC
A bit better and way cheaper tank wihout co-proc. All you need is Recons on 4. Cap stable ofc. :)
Indeed a nice fit. However I do appreciate the ability to use observator probes. There are things you can only do with these, and it's the main reason why my setup is somewhat expensive since I can find everything by using simultaneously only 1 observator and 4 cores.
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Semkhet
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2009.03.20 10:44:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Tsukoshi Just change your drones setting from aggressive to passive. Then you don't need to worry about them attacking a target you haven't disrupted yet and only need 1 disruptor.
Old habit coming from the days passive/agressive didn't always work as intended. Besides having 2 TD's is quite handy to lower the damage coming from a BS while you're engaging something else.
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Semkhet
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2009.03.20 10:49:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Travarica Assuming all this is correct, very nice find, thank you dear sir, you returned faith in my Ishtar as possible WH boat.
It's correct. This could open up many variations, like using a dedicated TD'er supporting a gang of drone boats provided the NPC's AI react the same way even if the drones and TD come from different players as long the TD came in first. But I can't test that actually since I'm solo.
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Wu Marusyn
Solar Quest
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Posted - 2009.03.21 11:02:00 -
[8]
i apologise in advance for my noobness - what TD stands for?
thank you
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Rutger Centemus
Joint Empire Squad
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Posted - 2009.03.21 11:16:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Wu Marusyn i apologise in advance for my noobness - what TD stands for?
thank you
A TD is a Tracking Disruptor (electronix warfare).
Originally by: Crumplecorn I prefer launching bathtubs of antimatter at my opponents over pointing an open DVD player at them, even if the bathtubs do miss a lot. So no.
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Tranquil Hegemony
Star Cainam
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Posted - 2009.03.21 11:38:00 -
[10]
drop the tractor for a Drone Link Aug.....boosts my control range to 74km and the TD's reach fine
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Riven Varlass
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Posted - 2009.03.21 12:35:00 -
[11]
I dont do any of this crap, I launch drones at warpin, and bring in my drones at the end, all at full hp. This "Sleepers pwn drones" is all a liiiiiiiieeee.
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Rodrigo Talavera
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Posted - 2009.03.21 15:29:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Riven Varlass I dont do any of this crap, I launch drones at warpin, and bring in my drones at the end, all at full hp. This "Sleepers pwn drones" is all a liiiiiiiieeee.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that your drones ( 0/ caldari warrior) don't really do enough damage to warrant being targeted.
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Fox Ogmo
Net 7 The Last Brigade
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Posted - 2009.03.21 19:34:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Semkhet - Your drones are only targeted back by the same sleeper you put your drones on, no other Sleeper will target them.
This is not true...
Advice does not hold.
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Semkhet
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2009.03.21 19:38:00 -
[14]
I've ended the experiment since I got a full cargo of loot & salvage. Using the TD's has protected the medium drones at 100%. However, there have been two instances where at some point, a frig targeted a small drone and I had to recall/relaunch to avoid get it popped. Therefore the tractor beam should be replaced by a small Solace RR for these rare cases.
When these exceptions happened, the small drone continued to get damage all the way till it reached the bay. Hence I doubt fitting a drone control range mod is opportune since it will only create conditions where the drone would have to travel longer till reaching safety (= would suffer a greater chance to become destroyed). Besides I always use Warriors II for their speed. Alternatively a drone nav computer would make more sense if you have enough CPU and a free mid.
Now the next step for those interested is to extrapolate these findings on Domi's & Ishtars using TD's coupled with sentries instead. I could do it on another account but I'm not that interested in PVE, in fact the only reason why I went in these WH was novelty, and I appreciated the fact that these Sleeper NPC's all have the same resists
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Semkhet
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2009.03.21 19:42:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Fox Ogmo
Originally by: Semkhet - Your drones are only targeted back by the same sleeper you put your drones on, no other Sleeper will target them.
This is not true...
Advice does not hold.
Well, this is what I observed, except in two distinct cases which where exceptions to the rule. Or maybe you could explain how comes that using 2x TD's again 5frigs/2cruisers (always TD'ing only the same 2 targets until destruction before locking something else), in 95% of the cases the drones are unscathed ?
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Pwett
QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony
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Posted - 2009.03.22 02:38:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Pwett on 22/03/2009 02:38:25
Originally by: Semkhet I've ended the experiment since I got a full cargo of loot & salvage. Using the TD's has protected the medium drones at 100%. However, there have been two instances where at some point, a frig targeted a small drone and I had to recall/relaunch to avoid get it popped. Therefore the tractor beam should be replaced by a small Solace RR for these rare cases.
When these exceptions happened, the small drone continued to get damage all the way till it reached the bay. Hence I doubt fitting a drone control range mod is opportune since it will only create conditions where the drone would have to travel longer till reaching safety (= would suffer a greater chance to become destroyed). Besides I always use Warriors II for their speed. Alternatively a drone nav computer would make more sense if you have enough CPU and a free mid.
Now the next step for those interested is to extrapolate these findings on Domi's & Ishtars using TD's coupled with sentries instead. I could do it on another account but I'm not that interested in PVE, in fact the only reason why I went in these WH was novelty, and I appreciated the fact that these Sleeper NPC's all have the same resists
Depending on your loadout, you might get more mileage out of a couple armor rep drones than the RR _______________ <Q> QUANT Hegemony QUANT is rebuilding, EVE-Mail me for recruitment info. Item Database |
NateX
Priory Of The Lemon Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.03.22 03:49:00 -
[17]
ranged is not needed at all
*hint* C a p transfer --
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Xessej
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Posted - 2009.03.22 05:57:00 -
[18]
This may work if your tank isn't stable but I've found that eventually all the sleepers stop shooting at my Drake, passive tanked that the cruiser and frig sleeper spawns can't break, and go after my drones not just the one being attacked but all of the sleepers.
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Imiarr Timshae
Caldari Funny Men In Funny Hats
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Posted - 2009.03.22 08:45:00 -
[19]
Just lol?
If you have to TD to stop sleepers killing your drones you are clueless as to how to micromanage drone aggro.
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Semkhet
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2009.03.22 10:17:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Imiarr Timshae Just lol?
If you have to TD to stop sleepers killing your drones you are clueless as to how to micromanage drone aggro.
Probably with an Ishtar, dropping sentries able to snipe beyond 90 Km out what allows you to stay out of range of most stuff, and having them close by allows to scoop them in a second at the first sign of incoming damage. That on a ship which has enough free highs to fit additional dps if needed and can fit a 50KEHP passive shield tank.
Wow... You must be a genius to compare that to ships which can't use sentries but instead have to send their drones right on top of their target
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What Trigger
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Posted - 2009.03.24 12:36:00 -
[21]
Quote: If you have to TD to stop sleepers killing your drones you are clueless as to how to micromanage drone aggro.
After seeing what I saw tonight for my first WH experience I'll assume you havnt done one yet and are solely thinking like a mission runner.
Everytime I launched my drones and sent them on there way they started taking fire before they reached their target or not long after even after I had full agro from the 4 sleepers, so from my experience you cant micromanage drone agro once their deployed its fair game, in the end I just left them in the bay.
So people may not be as clueless as you.
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Pinda Man
Minmatar INTERSTELLAR COLLECTIVE OWN Alliance
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Posted - 2009.03.24 13:34:00 -
[22]
And what about Target Painters? Any ideas on that or dont they create as much aggro?
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