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Kassimila
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Posted - 2009.03.20 18:17:00 -
[1]
So I encounted what I believe to be is a bug. When I am 0m from a target that is not moving, nor am I moving. I miss 100% of the time. At 1m distance, I hit 99.9% of my shots. This obviously can't be correct. I peition and I get the following response.
This is not a bug.
0m is simply too close for your guns to hit anything I'm afraid.
Best regards, GM Zhainius EVE Online Customer Support
REALLY!? - Seriously? So if I put a shotgun against a wall, and pull the trigger I'll miss? Better yet, how come if I'm 0m from an NPC, they still hit me?
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Meiyang Lee
Gallente Azteca Transportation Unlimited Gunboat Diplomacy
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Posted - 2009.03.20 18:27:00 -
[2]
It's the way the tracking/damage formula works, with a 0m modifier it can't calculate it correctly and you won't hit anything. Always has been the case as far as I know.
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Kassimila
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Posted - 2009.03.20 18:31:00 -
[3]
Right. Obviously some math error because you can't divide by zero. It's not beyond fixing. Obviously the NPCs get around this somehow. I figured I would petition, it would be added to the queue of things to be fixed, np. Instead I get a response that says I can't hit the broad side of a barn (Or a station in this case).
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Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
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Posted - 2009.03.20 20:05:00 -
[4]
Petition =/= Bugreport Bugreport it. And have fun reopening bugreport until it gets fixed. If you want it to be fixed. -- Thanks CCP for cu |
Random Womble
Minmatar Master Miners Electric Monkey Overlords
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Posted - 2009.03.20 20:13:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Random Womble on 20/03/2009 20:15:28 Allways (as far as i remember) been that way it also it quite a nice benefit for missile and drone users who can hug turret ships to avoid fire while their damage is applied quite happily anyway.
Tbh tho theres other issues such as your turrets actually having to track a stationary object when orbiting while reality is your turrets should not have to track/move and before anyone goes huh what just have a think. If on a basic level you were walking in a perfect circle centered around an object you would allways have the same side facing the object and if you pointed your arm at it (the object) you would not need to move your arm as you moved around just as your turrets should not need to track when orbiting something (admittedly graphically in eve ships dont keep a constant face but tbh thats partially because ships do have a flat (ground) axis and again realistically they should be able to). And even on moving objects most of the time the turret tracking should not have so much of an issue when orbiting.
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Feilamya
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.03.20 20:50:00 -
[6]
If you are 0 from a target, your turrets have to track infinitely fast to track it. However, your turrets can't track faster than the speed of light, so you miss 100%.
What IS weird is the fact that you are at 0 distance from another object. Maybe you should report that as a bug?
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Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
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Posted - 2009.03.20 22:59:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Feilamya If you are 0 from a target, your turrets have to track infinitely fast to track it. However, your turrets can't track faster than the speed of light, so you miss 100%.
What IS weird is the fact that you are at 0 distance from another object. Maybe you should report that as a bug?
There's enough structures, like various bunkers and such, that alowing you to, literally, fly inside of them. Being that "close", you can't hit them at all. -- Thanks CCP for cu |
Kassimila
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Posted - 2009.03.20 23:41:00 -
[8]
You obviously missed the part that said neither I nor the object I was firing on was moving. Tracking shouldn't even be a factor. Please learn to read before continuing to post on forums of any kind. Secondly you can be 0 meters from an object if you are in contact with that object.
Originally by: Feilamya If you are 0 from a target, your turrets have to track infinitely fast to track it. However, your turrets can't track faster than the speed of light, so you miss 100%.
What IS weird is the fact that you are at 0 distance from another object. Maybe you should report that as a bug?
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Ephemeron
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.03.21 00:44:00 -
[9]
this has always been the case since tracking was introduced
CCP could fix it by adding special case handling for 0, but.. I dunno, I'm sure they have some excuse
EVE gun tracking is very primitive, since it doesn't take into account changing hit area size as the object approaches (gets bigger in field of view) or flys away (gets smaller). And there are no line of sight mechanics
Maybe in 5 years, computers will be advanced enough to handle that sort of data processing in MMO game. And somebody would make an advanced space sim that would make EVE obsolete.. or CCP will keep making their game more advanced, tho I'm a bit skeptical about direction they are going in.
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Nova Fox
Gallente Novafox Shipyards
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Posted - 2009.03.21 00:52:00 -
[10]
Im sorry but guns have a hard time firing inward :P =============
Pre Order your Sisters of Eve ship today
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Marcus Gideon
Gallente Excessive Force
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Posted - 2009.03.21 01:01:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Marcus Gideon on 21/03/2009 01:02:02
Originally by: Kassimila You obviously missed the part that said neither I nor the object I was firing on was moving. Tracking shouldn't even be a factor. Please learn to read before continuing to post on forums of any kind. Secondly you can be 0 meters from an object if you are in contact with that object.
Originally by: Feilamya If you are 0 from a target, your turrets have to track infinitely fast to track it. However, your turrets can't track faster than the speed of light, so you miss 100%.
What IS weird is the fact that you are at 0 distance from another object. Maybe you should report that as a bug?
Actually... Feilamya was completely correct in their response... and you should learn a wee bit more about the game mechanics before you critisize actual helpful and meaningful input.
Whether or not you and your target were moving... the fact that you were at 0m means that the game considered your target to be 0m in every direction. If you were 1m, then it could plot a proper direction. But being 0m in all directions, your turrets would be attempting to track in all directions at once.
--- Life altering changes, to combat the acts of a extreme minority... means you're letting the terrorists win. "Players don't want Variety. They want THE BEST" |
Distempered
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Posted - 2009.03.21 01:37:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Kassimila You obviously missed the part that said neither I nor the object I was firing on was moving. Tracking shouldn't even be a factor. Please learn to read before continuing to post on forums of any kind. Secondly you can be 0 meters from an object if you are in contact with that object.
Ahhh, the old "learn to read" response, my favorite of all types of forum douchebaggery.
What makes it even douchier is Feilamya is exactly correct. In the current game mechanics, the closer you get to your target, the faster you guns need to track to hit the target. Since the tracking formula puts range in the denominator, a bit of calculus will show the limit of a/b as b approaches zero to be unsigned infinity, and infinity is simply too fast to keep up with.
Transversal is completely irrelevant.
This tracking guide used to be on eve-o, but was removed for some reason: http://www.hostile.dk/files/eve/eve-tracking101.swf
The 0m case is not a bug, but an unfortunate side effect of the current design. As a (former) blaster boat pilot, I think the entire tracking formula needs to be looked at, but there are already plenty of threads on that topic.
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Artassaut
Minmatar Oblivion Amalgamated
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Posted - 2009.03.21 05:52:00 -
[13]
They really need a clause such as,
If distance = 0 Then distance = 1
On the tracking formula. --- The Gate: Lol, try targeting me in a fleet fight. The Station: No U. |
Loveslave Dave
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Posted - 2009.03.21 14:19:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Loveslave Dave on 21/03/2009 14:18:45 Eve turrets: technological marvels capable of missing a barn door with a volkswagen.
As has been said, a consequence of the way tracking works in eve is the inability to hit something at 0km, not to mention the added bonus of being able to miss a station with a frigate at optimal.
Yay for the tracking formula!
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Viggen
Caldari The Lunatic Asylum Notorious Organization of Brothers
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Posted - 2009.03.21 17:16:00 -
[15]
So cant it be changed so that ships cant get within 1m of each other? Surely that would fix it making 1m the minimum distance allowed.
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Kassimila
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Posted - 2009.03.22 18:50:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Viggen So cant it be changed so that ships cant get within 1m of each other? Surely that would fix it making 1m the minimum distance allowed.
That's exactly my point. This isn't a "Game Mechanics" issue. This is a "Some coder forgot to deal with 0" issue. All that needs to be done to correct this is to change the min distance you can be from ANY object in the game to 0.000001 meters and it will instantly be fixed.
I really don't need people going on and on about "Well that's not how it works, so and so was totally right you douche". I'm well aware of how it works, and why it works that way. It was an error in someones math, and NOT a proper game mechanic. How long it's been that way doesn't matter, that just means the DEVs have not bothered to fix it yet. Which is what I am trying to correct with my original petition. So please, continue to post on this thread about how annoying missing at "0" meters is, and maybe they will do something about it.
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Kassimila
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Posted - 2009.03.23 16:35:00 -
[17]
This is also preventing my DRONES from damaging a station. Would a DEV PLEASE respond to this?
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GhostStalker
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Posted - 2009.03.23 16:55:00 -
[18]
This sounds really wierd, would like to hear what dev has to say about this matter!
//Over and out
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IceAero
Amarr Shadow Company
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Posted - 2009.03.23 18:27:00 -
[19]
Edited by: IceAero on 23/03/2009 18:28:44 I've mentioned this before...
Two things I believe are sorely missing from the game:
when at 0m...turret tracking should be meaningless.
When you and your target have 0 velocity, or lets just say angular velocity below 0.0001 or something, and you're within optimal range, all shots should be wrecking regardless of the signature radius effects. (unless you're shooting a pos/structure)
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ShadowGod56
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Posted - 2009.03.23 21:11:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Kassimila
REALLY!? - Seriously? So if I put a shotgun against a wall, and pull the trigger I'll miss? Better yet, how come if I'm 0m from an NPC, they still hit me?
lmao that's the best example ever
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Lord WarATron
Amarr Shadow Reapers DAMAGE INC...
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Posted - 2009.03.23 21:31:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Lord WarATron on 23/03/2009 21:32:05 Its should be a simple fix. The reason you miss at 0 is due to a divide by zero on the tracking formula, which makes 0m range impossible to hit. Its a bug and a very basic bug at that.
This does not matter much for most things, but for attacking big targets it matters a lot. Hopefully CCP will fix this before slipping on a bannana peel in the walking in stations patch results in a fall without ever hitting the ground. --
Billion Isk Mission |
Lareon Denery
Aliastra
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Posted - 2009.03.24 16:05:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Lareon Denery on 24/03/2009 16:07:26 I don't think is completely a bug, anyway.
You need to consider a blind spot of many design (they don't have cannons installed in the centre of prow)
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Slapchop Gonnalovemynuts
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Posted - 2009.03.24 20:19:00 -
[23]
The answer: EVE IS NOT REAL LIFE!
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Professor Dumbledore
Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.24 21:01:00 -
[24]
It really sucks when you are trying to shoot a station and your sieged dread gets bumped into dock range ( 0m ) on a station even though you are really far away from it in reality.
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Panzram
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.24 21:30:00 -
[25]
LAreon that is a very good mspaint and should be used as the official reply to people petitioning or bug reporting this issue with no other explanatory text
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Jimer Lins
Gallente Noir.
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Posted - 2009.03.24 22:57:00 -
[26]
Another way to look at it is that range is measured from your ship, not the muzzle of your gun.
So at 0m, the target is atually closer to your hull than the barrel of your launcher/blaster/railgun/cannon. It can't fire backwards, so you can't hit anything.
Corp killboard-How to Kill Logoffskis |
Dirty Python
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Posted - 2009.03.25 01:15:00 -
[27]
illustration
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Kassimila
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Posted - 2009.03.25 06:19:00 -
[28]
Ok THAT was the funniest MSpaint I've seen in a while!
Still waiting on a DEV....still watching my drones miss all day.
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