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The Riddik
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Posted - 2009.03.25 03:50:00 -
[31]
Edited by: The Riddik on 25/03/2009 03:50:48
Originally by: Zeba
Originally by: Iria Ahrens Actually Mittani's comeback was probably one of the best comebacks I've seen in months. The subtle ones are the best ones, and it's sad you need it explained and think it doesn't make sense or is completely random.
To proofread is to read one's own words. Riddik says he doesn't like to read crap, Mitttani says he did not proofread ergo, Riddik didn't read his own writing, thus Riddik declares his own writing crap by refusing to read it.
Well instead of being all flourishy and backhanded with the wording and bandying about insults like some proper british ladies whacking each other up side the head with change purses I like to be direct. The Riddik was pretty direct and consice though possibly not a good typer or even have good english skills. So I will be moar direct and less ambiguous about his short direct statement. You can pretty much distill all of the mittanis articles on Ten Ton hammer down to this: "Nyah nyah I got to write stuffs on an internets gaming forum about some internets spaceships shennanigans and I get to do it with no ccp intervention so let the spin games commence and I R better than U. Monkey. lolol ." So the mittani at a loss for words to such a direct statement waffled and went 'subtle'. That clear enough?
you are right, I am a bad typer, and have trouble with english at times, but lets face it. anything Mit has to say will ultimately be propaganda, for him, and for the goons at large, and since I, like many others, are wise to the constant posturing of Mit and his glee club I refuse to read it and will always take anyones side other than his and theirs.
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.03.25 04:04:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Iria Ahrens Well, of course it's propaganda. I'd naturally expect his articles mainly to center around GS because that is where most of his experience is.
The main reasons I like his articles are. 1. I get to hear the GS POV in a well written article. Instead of a bunch of "bob is suxxor" comments that I normally hear on the forums. 2. The articles give newcomers and non-players a sense of the true scale of Eve and might inspire people to get more immersed or join when they were considering another mmo. 3. I'm hearing about events I'd otherwise have no knowledge myself.
But yes, there are definitely disadvateges to some of the best articles about EVE being goon propaganda, most of them too obvious to bother specifying.
Oh I find them very entertaining too. the mittani seems very accomplised at dancing about the issues with his witty prose and he moast definitely fits into the common Goon archtype for the leader caste whatever thats worth. I guess I just like to pick on them as an entity as they just suck at alliance combat and still needed major outside combat assistance to take over an effectively undefended Delve when BoB self destructed and the culmination of years of infighting and power brokering drove a trusted director to say "**** it its no fun anymore and I think I'll defect to the Goons just to really stick it in the bastages face". Besides that little bit the Goons can be some of the better entertainment to be had on the forums will all the scams or corny jihads and deep down I think moast will agree. But luckily for Eve you can always balance that love hate relationship with the hate getting some closure at the end of a smoking laser or a smokingly sarcastic dig wrecking for 1337 forums points on the good ole Eve-O.
Yay! Got meh sig back! ♥ Weatherman |
Geldar Wroontik
Gallente Galactic System Lords Inc. Galactic System Lords Alliance
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Posted - 2009.03.25 11:18:00 -
[33]
Originally by: The Riddik Edited by: The Riddik on 25/03/2009 03:50:48
Originally by: Zeba
Originally by: Iria Ahrens Actually Mittani's comeback was probably one of the best comebacks I've seen in months. The subtle ones are the best ones, and it's sad you need it explained and think it doesn't make sense or is completely random.
To proofread is to read one's own words. Riddik says he doesn't like to read crap, Mitttani says he did not proofread ergo, Riddik didn't read his own writing, thus Riddik declares his own writing crap by refusing to read it.
Well instead of being all flourishy and backhanded with the wording and bandying about insults like some proper british ladies whacking each other up side the head with change purses I like to be direct. The Riddik was pretty direct and consice though possibly not a good typer or even have good english skills. So I will be moar direct and less ambiguous about his short direct statement. You can pretty much distill all of the mittanis articles on Ten Ton hammer down to this: "Nyah nyah I got to write stuffs on an internets gaming forum about some internets spaceships shennanigans and I get to do it with no ccp intervention so let the spin games commence and I R better than U. Monkey. lolol ." So the mittani at a loss for words to such a direct statement waffled and went 'subtle'. That clear enough?
you are right, I am a bad typer, and have trouble with english at times, but lets face it. anything Mit has to say will ultimately be propaganda, for him, and for the goons at large, and since I, like many others, are wise to the constant posturing of Mit and his glee club I refuse to read it and will always take anyones side other than his and theirs.
The thing is, though, that his article isn't GoonSwarm propaganda, when Mittani could very well have made it so. Instead he talks at length about the place espionage has in the greater scheme of things in terms of alliance warfare, and I think he's got a point.
So long as one stays within game mechanics, if one can discover a weakness in an opposing force and exploit it, then however he gained that information, he's not cheating. He's playing smart. All good armed forces in the world deal in espionage and intelligence to get a better idea of their playing field, rather than rushing in blind.
But your alliance doesn't want to deal in espionage? Tough ****. You're ignoring a very powerful weapon, and when there are other alliances out there willing, ready and able to engage in espionage, you may find your best kept secrets appearing in the hands of your enemies.
And that is not a good position to be in.
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Cipher7
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Posted - 2009.03.25 11:42:00 -
[34]
Social engineering is only necessary in Eve because there aren't enough in-game tools to gather intel, so people have to do it ghetto style.
Imagine if there was a hacking skill that let you read enemy corps evemail.
Or a skill to show the location of enemy pilots on F10 map.
Instead we have lame a$$ singing on TS to "prove" you're not a spy alt.
I'm against metagaming and always will be.
It breaks immersion and makes Eve a poorer gaming experience, and loads it up with bullschit like "okay send us a screenshot, an API key and a 20 page resume."
Well schit, I didn't know Morgan Stanley was hiring thru Eve. ---
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Sobic
Valklear Guard Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.03.25 12:08:00 -
[35]
large scale espionage is only needed for groups that take the game way to SERIOUSLY. You personally need the intel to get that badly needed edge. Otherwise your personal pride would be crushed if 100's of hours of effort were spent just to be defeated in the end.
Goons clearly NEEDED meta gaming to win, just like it clearly helped BOB as well. In the end your all way to wrapped up in your pixel pride fest.
In the end you're just hurting the overall gaming experience, simply to materialize your personal goals.(At whatever cost)
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.03.25 12:30:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Geldar Wroontik The thing is, though, that his article isn't GoonSwarm propaganda, when Mittani could very well have made it so.
Tbh its obvious he is sniping everyone goons included. Its like all the monkey and other various digs were pointed right at them once you get past the grammer glitz. Way to pull a Xerxes on your own troops mittens.
Quote: Instead he talks at length about the place espionage has in the greater scheme of things in terms of alliance warfare, and I think he's got a point.
Yes and given my literary background I could quote Sun Tzu in a way that the majority wouldn't catch and so seem to have omg ray of light ideas about the same stuff humans have been subjecting themselves to and then countering for millenia.
Yay! Got meh sig back! ♥ Weatherman |
mcnuggetlol
Amarr Outlandish Operations
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Posted - 2009.03.25 12:31:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Sobic large scale espionage is only needed for groups that take the game way to SERIOUSLY. You personally need the intel to get that badly needed edge. Otherwise your personal pride would be crushed if 100's of hours of effort were spent just to be defeated in the end.
Goons clearly NEEDED meta gaming to win, just like it clearly helped BOB as well. In the end your all way to wrapped up in your pixel pride fest.
In the end you're just hurting the overall gaming experience, simply to materialize your personal goals.(At whatever cost)
Or maybe they're just better then you?
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The Mittani
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.25 13:30:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Zeba
Originally by: Iria Ahrens Actually Mittani's comeback was probably one of the best comebacks I've seen in months. The subtle ones are the best ones, and it's sad you need it explained and think it doesn't make sense or is completely random.
To proofread is to read one's own words. Riddik says he doesn't like to read crap, Mitttani says he did not proofread ergo, Riddik didn't read his own writing, thus Riddik declares his own writing crap by refusing to read it.
Well instead of being all flourishy and backhanded with the wording and bandying about insults like some proper british ladies whacking each other up side the head with change purses I like to be direct. The Riddik was pretty direct and consice though possibly not a good typer or even have good english skills. So I will be moar direct and less ambiguous about his short direct statement. You can pretty much distill all of the mittanis articles on Ten Ton hammer down to this: "Nyah nyah I got to write stuffs on an internets gaming forum about some internets spaceships shennanigans and I get to do it with no ccp intervention so let the spin games commence and I R better than U. Monkey. lolol ." So the mittani at a loss for words to such a direct statement waffled and went 'subtle'. That clear enough?
brevity is the soul of wit~
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Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N. Dara Cothrom
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Posted - 2009.03.25 13:36:00 -
[39]
Originally by: The Mittani
Originally by: Zeba
Originally by: Iria Ahrens Actually Mittani's comeback was probably one of the best comebacks I've seen in months. The subtle ones are the best ones, and it's sad you need it explained and think it doesn't make sense or is completely random.
To proofread is to read one's own words. Riddik says he doesn't like to read crap, Mitttani says he did not proofread ergo, Riddik didn't read his own writing, thus Riddik declares his own writing crap by refusing to read it.
Well instead of being all flourishy and backhanded with the wording and bandying about insults like some proper british ladies whacking each other up side the head with change purses I like to be direct. The Riddik was pretty direct and consice though possibly not a good typer or even have good english skills. So I will be moar direct and less ambiguous about his short direct statement. You can pretty much distill all of the mittanis articles on Ten Ton hammer down to this: "Nyah nyah I got to write stuffs on an internets gaming forum about some internets spaceships shennanigans and I get to do it with no ccp intervention so let the spin games commence and I R better than U. Monkey. lolol ." So the mittani at a loss for words to such a direct statement waffled and went 'subtle'. That clear enough?
brevity is the soul of wit~
And silence is the virtue of fools.
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Sevarus James
Minmatar Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2009.03.25 13:40:00 -
[40]
Good stuff Mittani, and right on the money. For those whinging about "propaganda", they need to read Mit's posts in CAOD and compare them to the articles written...CAOD= typical stuff (imho)... TenTonHammer= good stuff.
Using in game experience to create a 'zine article' isn't propaganda, its common sense.
Of course tempers do flare and some folks cannot see past the ingame persona. Just ask Istvaan how THAT can go.
Updated Ubuntu Compiz-Linux Desktop+EVE Premium |
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.03.25 13:41:00 -
[41]
Originally by: The Mittani brevity is the soul of wit~
So I take it then that your articles on tth are witless or souless? Or both?
Yay! Got meh sig back! ♥ Weatherman |
The Mittani
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.25 13:43:00 -
[42]
[seriouspost] I try to be even-handed and comprehensible when I'm writing for TTH, because a lot of the audience doesn't play EVE at all - they're useless as a 'propaganda vector' and being openly biased would delegitimize the column. This is why I always include a few examples of my own foibles and mistakes, or errors that the Swarm has made.
~i post like a fuzzy mitten on eveo because it annoys people~~~
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CDLoon
Minmatar Red Sky Morning
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Posted - 2009.03.25 13:53:00 -
[43]
I like these columns Mittani, well written and informative.
I have to admit, your early espionage work was one of the things that truly captivated me about EVE. No other game caters, even encourages spying like EVE.
Thanks,
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.03.25 13:54:00 -
[44]
Originally by: The Mittani [seriouspost] I try to be even-handed and comprehensible when I'm writing for TTH, because a lot of the audience doesn't play EVE at all - they're useless as a 'propaganda vector' and being openly biased would delegitimize the column. This is why I always include a few examples of my own foibles and mistakes, or errors that the Swarm has made.
~i post like a fuzzy mitten on eveo because it annoys people~~~
[gloves on] Yeah I realise that and your articles really are entertaining and informative to people new to eve or even players who rarely ever wander withing 20 jumps of the official forums. Kudos on the noteriety and will gladly read further installments.
However..
[gloves off and smacks the mittani across the face with his jewel encrusted official imitation michal jackson hand mitten] This is the Eve-O forums and you are a dirty cheatin Goon so have at it matey.
Yay! Got meh sig back! ♥ Weatherman |
Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2009.03.25 14:00:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Cipher7 Social engineering is only necessary in Eve because there aren't enough in-game tools to gather intel, so people have to do it ghetto style.
Imagine if there was a hacking skill that let you read enemy corps evemail.
Or a skill to show the location of enemy pilots on F10 map.
Instead we have lame a$$ singing on TS to "prove" you're not a spy alt.
I'm against metagaming and always will be.
It breaks immersion and makes Eve a poorer gaming experience, and loads it up with bullschit like "okay send us a screenshot, an API key and a 20 page resume."
You say you're against metagaming, yet your new game mechanics suggestions would encourage even more of it. Which tells a lot about how much you know. ...
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ry ry
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Posted - 2009.03.25 14:04:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Cipher7 Instead we have lame a$$ singing on TS to "prove" you're not a spy alt.
except SUAS, who liberated a titan then made a song about it.
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Cipher7
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Posted - 2009.03.25 14:24:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Razin
Originally by: Cipher7 Social engineering is only necessary in Eve because there aren't enough in-game tools to gather intel, so people have to do it ghetto style.
Imagine if there was a hacking skill that let you read enemy corps evemail.
Or a skill to show the location of enemy pilots on F10 map.
Instead we have lame a$$ singing on TS to "prove" you're not a spy alt.
I'm against metagaming and always will be.
It breaks immersion and makes Eve a poorer gaming experience, and loads it up with bullschit like "okay send us a screenshot, an API key and a 20 page resume."
You say you're against metagaming, yet your new game mechanics suggestions would encourage even more of it. Which tells a lot about how much you know.
I don't think you understand what metagaming means.
If your CHARACTER finds out secret info, that's not metagaming.
If the RL person finds out secret info because he's good at impersonating a newb, that's the RL person gaining intel not the character. That's more or less the dictionary definition of metagaming.
This is just the beginning.
We're already past the point of hacking into teamspeak servers and buying accounts to pose as someone else.
The next logical step is to befriend someone, find out where they live and beat them up and I expect this to happen in the not too distant future. ---
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Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2009.03.25 15:49:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Razin on 25/03/2009 15:49:18
Originally by: Cipher7
I don't think you understand what metagaming means.
If your CHARACTER finds out secret info, that's not metagaming.
If the RL person finds out secret info because he's good at impersonating a newb, that's the RL person gaining intel not the character. That's more or less the dictionary definition of metagaming.
This is just the beginning.
We're already past the point of hacking into teamspeak servers and buying accounts to pose as someone else.
The next logical step is to befriend someone, find out where they live and beat them up and I expect this to happen in the not too distant future.
See, you're just digging a deeper hole for yourself.
Metagaming is playing the game using the means that fall outside the available game mechanics. Using an alt to infiltrate a corp (and thereby gaining access to it's assets) is perfectly within the game mechanics, this being an MMORPG played by human beings and all.
You can't hide behind your character when participating in most of the ingame activities, from NPC farming to trading to combat it is you making the decisions, and when other human beings are also involved in those activities it is you who communicates with them, not your char. This is part of playing a multiplayer game.
Now, your suggestions of "a hacking skill that let you read enemy corps evemail" would just encourage players to avoid evemail and use out-of-game communication means for all of their sensitive correspondence. I.e., this would actually increase the amount of metagaming.
See how that works? ...
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Iria Ahrens
Amarr 101st Space Marine Force Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2009.03.25 20:00:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Iria Ahrens on 25/03/2009 20:06:46
Originally by: Geldar Wroontik
The thing is, though, that his article isn't GoonSwarm propaganda, when Mittani could very well have made it so. Instead he talks at length about the place espionage has in the greater scheme of things in terms of alliance warfare, and I think he's got a point.
I think you're missing the point about propaganda though.
If I point to a club and say, "That is a bat" and someone counters, "That is not a flying mouse, you are wrong" Then the responder is wrong. Words have more than one definition and so long as ONE of those definitions fit, then the first statement is true.
You are correct that Mittani's article is not definition 1 of propaganda " information, ideas, or rumors deliberately spread widely to help or harm a person, group, movement, institution, nation, etc."
But it does fall under definition 3, " the particular doctrines or principles propagated by an organization or movement."
Sure, Mittani may be admitting his own inability to follow doctrine at some points, or maybe how a failure shaped his doctrine, but he is propagating GS doctrine. Ergo, his articles are propaganda. The difference here is his propaganda falls under acceptable limits. A large problem in society is people being unable to recognize propaganda for what it is when it's isn't under definition 1. --
Nobody expects the Amarr Inquisition!
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Venomire
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.25 21:52:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Razin Now, your suggestions of "a hacking skill that let you read enemy corps evemail" would just encourage players to avoid evemail and use out-of-game communication means for all of their sensitive correspondence.
Some of us already do this.
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