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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2009.03.25 20:28:00 -
[1]
Nerf ****ing ECM drones. A load of ECM drones should not be an automatic "get out of jail free" card in a 1v1. Currently, you can launch them and you're almost guaranteed to get a jam before you die. At least with Falcons, you know that your opponent had to spend a pilot on a dedicated ECM ship (which is paper-thin and brings nothing else to the fight), but any random ship with a drone bay can carry ECM drones for an automatic escape option. -----------
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2009.03.25 23:00:00 -
[2]
Agreed.
Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Death of Virtue is Recruiting
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KingDiomedes
Caldari SniggWaffe
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Posted - 2009.03.26 01:04:00 -
[3]
you must be smoking crack coz last time i used ecm drones it took 5 mins before they jammed so unless you are using new super ecm drones then i think you should try using them. i think what may of happened is that you suck in pvp and u got ur botty whopped and now your emo crying :)
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ShadowMaster56
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Posted - 2009.03.26 01:19:00 -
[4]
Originally by: KingDiomedes you must be smoking crack coz last time i used ecm drones it took 5 mins before they jammed so unless you are using new super ecm drones then i think you should try using them. i think what may of happened is that you suck in pvp and u got ur botty whopped and now your emo crying :)
do you even know who you just said that to....
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KingDiomedes
Caldari SniggWaffe
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Posted - 2009.03.26 01:24:00 -
[5]
....looks up... hmm as there is only one whinge post. im gonna say yes i do
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2009.03.26 02:23:00 -
[6]
Originally by: KingDiomedes you must be smoking crack coz last time i used ecm drones it took 5 mins before they jammed so unless you are using new super ecm drones then i think you should try using them. i think what may of happened is that you suck in pvp and u got ur botty whopped and now your emo crying :)
Hint: you're an idiot. I made this post in response to a good 1v1, Phantasm vs. Hurricane, which was ruined when my target simply dropped ECM drones and warped off as soon as his tank failed (and it didn't matter that it took him a full minute to realize that my point had turned off, since his light ECM drones perma-jammed my cruiser until he finally warped off), so I'd hardly call it "getting my botty whopped". And even though that was what motivated this specific post, I've abused ECM drones myself plenty of times in the past, and they're stupidly overpowered. I've perma-jammed BCs and HACs, and jammed plenty of targets long enough to ensure the fight goes my way.
And it's not just me saying this, just look around the forums. How many times have people recommended the Thorax as the best PvP cruiser, just because it has a 50m3 drone bay and can use a full set of ECM drones? How many people have made similar comments about the Harbinger?
And here's another hint: nobody is saying the same things about the other ewar drones. This should just maybe suggest that ECM drones are a little out of balance. -----------
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Artemis Rose
Sileo In Pacis SIRRIUS.
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Posted - 2009.03.26 02:45:00 -
[7]
ECCM is really effective counter on ECM drones, due to their very very low jam strength. Usually one of these will radically reduce the effects of ECM drones in a battle, so I'd say they are decently balanced as far as ECM goes..
However, when you start to compare them to other e-war drones, they are horribly out of balance. There really isn't a big use for the other drones at all. I'd say, to add different spice to the game, to boost the other forms of e-war drones (mainly the neutralizer and the webbing drones as I don't think anything could save sensor damp drones). *** Currently Playing: Trolls from Outer Space Current Equipment: VISAcard chain mail, +2 Amulet of Epic Whine, Self Banstick +2 WTB: +666 E-peen killboard stats |
Ezekiel Sulastin
Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.03.26 04:04:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin And here's another hint: nobody is saying the same things about the other ewar drones. This should just maybe suggest that ECM drones are a little out of balance.
... because the other drones are complete and utter crap? Take damp drones for instance. You're looking at -12% range and locktime from a Hammerhead SD-600. These HHSDs stacknerf against each other. They're equivalent to one dampener on each attribute. They do jack squat compared to ECM drones or even damage dealing drones.
And last time I looked, the Harbinger was recommended more because of the current Scorch FOTM than anything else - otherwise, you'd see people recommending the Brutix for its drone bay. ---- zzzz ... zzzz ... zzzz |
King Rothgar
Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2009.03.26 05:31:00 -
[9]
ECM drones are effective not because they permajam, but because they break lock for a brief period (5 seconds I think). This combined with relocking time makes them a near sure fire ass saving device against a single target that is ill-prepared for ECM, even if it's much larger than the drones were intended for as they only need one successful cycle to save you from destruction.
There are a few ways to counter them with great effect so I see no need to nerf them beyond completely changing the way ECM works. ECM should be defensive, not offensive imho. Should also be useful on all ships, not just caldari ECM boats.
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.03.26 06:04:00 -
[10]
Not going to comment on the balance of ECM drones, but you shouldn't base balance on 1v1s.
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2009.03.26 06:41:00 -
[11]
Originally by: King Rothgar ECM drones are effective not because they permajam, but because they break lock for a brief period (5 seconds I think). This combined with relocking time makes them a near sure fire ass saving device against a single target that is ill-prepared for ECM, even if it's much larger than the drones were intended for as they only need one successful cycle to save you from destruction.
Worse, they jam for the full 20 seconds. And that's exactly the problem, it's like the old pre-nerf WCS, as long as you bring your ECM drones, you've got a very good chance of simply warping out of any fight you're about to lose. -----------
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Arikanaiz
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Posted - 2009.03.26 07:25:00 -
[12]
ECM, or ECM drones, will always win in 1 v 1, unless you fit ECCM, everything in this game has a counter to it Merin, JUST because you failed to catch one person because you didn't fit your ship to deal with ONE aspect you screwed yourself. Oops, s*** happens, losing a fight is just that, you lost, not because the game is flawed but because there simply aren't enough fittings slots to make sure you're covered on every possible outcome you can't always win, just think about the guy that got lucky and got away. Maybe one of these days you'll be the one that barely gets away, would you expect that person to write a post complaining because you had an auto win button just because he couldn't pwn you?
Your whole post is a whine, and an epic fail whine at that. Go back to carebearing if you can't handle not killing everyone you target.
scincerly, Arikanaiz
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Colonel Xaven
Decadence. RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.03.26 08:10:00 -
[13]
ECM drones are so terrible. Could have a boost tbh.
Proud member of RZR - Decadence. |
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2009.03.26 08:12:00 -
[14]
Being required to fit ECCM is just stupid. It's bad enough when you have to fit it to counter Falcons, but to win every random 1v1? Now we need MWD, web, scram, ECCM, guess we just ruled out all those classic 3-mid PvP ships and all of the shield tankers... -----------
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Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2009.03.26 08:13:00 -
[15]
Wayyyy nack in the day when multispecs were OP and nerfed, ecm drones were never accordingly nerfed. This has been brought up zillions of times on the forums but CCP is kinda ******ed on some aspects of the game.
Originally by: CCP Whisper So you're going to have to do some actual thinking with regards to hull components and their capabilities instead of copying some cookie-cutter setup. Cry some more.
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Terianna Eri
Amarr Scrutari
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Posted - 2009.03.26 09:06:00 -
[16]
Consider swapping out one of your small neuts for a smartbomb? __________________________________
Originally by: CCP Whisper Boo hoo. Cry some more.
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Theron Gyrow
Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2009.03.26 09:33:00 -
[17]
Current ECM drone strengths: light 1, medium 1.5, heavy 2. At least that is borked - should be light 0.5, medium 1, heavy 2. This would already balance them quite a bit. -- Gradient forum |
retro mike
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Posted - 2009.03.26 09:38:00 -
[18]
So youre whinging cos you because the enemy ship countered you by using ECM drones. You were outmanouvered. Get over it and move on.
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2009.03.26 10:50:00 -
[19]
ECM drones ARE a get-out-of-jail-free card currently. As Merin pointed out, they never got their nerf-bat hit when the "lulzECMDomi" where removed.
And it goes further than that. A ship with a majority of its damage based on turrets/Missiles (Harbinger, Hurricane, Rupture etc.) can reliably use its drone bay to tank by fielding EC-xxx drones as long as it engages ships of similar or smaller size .. That in itself is unbalanced, unless ALL ships get similar sized dronebays, but that would decrease variety which is bad.
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Lindsay Logan
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Posted - 2009.03.26 11:05:00 -
[20]
you always got the option of killing the ECM drones, eihter with your own drones you simply targeting and shooting them.
And there should be a get out of jail free card. You are after all dropping a lot of damage for ECM drones when you could have used 5 Hammerhead II.
Maby tweak the ECM duration to say 10 seconds would be better then 20 seconds from the ECM module.
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GTN
tr0pa de elite Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.03.26 12:55:00 -
[21]
noob get a smartbomb or eccm to counter ecm drones
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5pinDizzy
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Posted - 2009.03.26 13:13:00 -
[22]
Agreed! CCP, nerf the only non combat drones that are even worth using!
if you disagree with me then you should probably post a response and stop reading my signature. |
Amy Wang
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Posted - 2009.03.26 13:25:00 -
[23]
1. half ecm drone strength 2. rename electronic warfare drone interfacing to something else, keep the +3k range/lvl effect 3. introduce a fresh electronic warfare drone interfacing skill: rank 1-2 that does +20% per lvl (or make it rank 5 and give it +25% per lvl) 4. introduce t2 ecm drones that need the skill at 5 (rank 1-2) or 4 (rank 5) 5. ??? 6. profit
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Daitanfutekina Unsoya
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Posted - 2009.03.26 13:41:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin "get out of jail free" card in a 1v1
How often do you pvp with missiles in Apoc? need a web, scram, painter..
The first thing a forum load of people will tell you is, ADAPT OR DIE
If anything is apparent. Its that ccp wants blobing and no soloing.
so yeah, In addition to current solo pvper's fitting AB AND MWD or either or and TWO ****ing webs now,
they also want us to fit 1-2 eccm it seems. even still, leave ECM drones alone. I've usually managed to bump people when the ecm drones come out and SEAL THE DEAL the old fashion way. you know hull grinding..
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Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.03.26 15:29:00 -
[25]
Normally I don't tell people to fit smartbombs to counter drones, but if ECM drones are giving you a hard time then why not? One Smartbomb will ruin the life of any ecm drone users, as well as having the added benefit of making other drone users miserable, meaning unlike ECCM it actually has a very valid purpose outside of countering one thing. |
Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2009.04.05 09:17:00 -
[26]
Just had another engagement where the extreme broken-ness of ECM drones reared its ugly head.
Two Guardians each with 2x ECCMII .. fire on one and sic a flight of EC-600 on the other .. forced a redock when the primary was killed shortly after the buddy was jammed.
I won't even bother with the numbers since this should quite frankly not be possible. It is proof positive of a broken mechanic and it needs to be remedied as fast as possible.
CCP: You really need to find an alternative to chance based jamming and its effects. When two T2 "counter modules" are not enough to prevent a jam from a STR=1.5 drone something is broken. This is serious space-ships, not a Casino .. die rolls have no place here.
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Serge Aton
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Posted - 2009.04.05 09:38:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Serge Aton on 05/04/2009 09:46:45 So many noobs in these here parts me wantz to pirate meself... arrrrrgggg...
Edited by: Serge Aton on 05/04/2009 09:40:06 If you want to complain about how effective they are and not be willing to fit a counter on them, then its your fault. They can easyly be defeated with smart bombs. But you people would never think of anything that complicated or even consitter the use of eccm jammers. Look at your comments, calling people names and stuff is just childish.
Think before you speak. And no this isn't a F***ing spelling B. Don't even start with me. Get over it, learn to adapt, not complain. All I hear is complain about this and that. Fit a dang counter for god sakes if everybody uses them so much its cus your not thinking out side the box.
Also ECM drones are not perma jamming. Its all based off your sensor strength. Do the math hun??? Fit a sensor strength booster, fit ecm drones of your own, eccm, and even smart bombs = best counter. Now if your ontop of them you'd beable to pop them and their pod as soon as their ship poped.
ECM drones come onto you, hit eccm wile your mwding to them, and smart bomb their drones at the same time. When their drones are popped, hold them down, bring out your own ecm drones, jam jam jam, and pew pew pew goes your target. If you can't defeat them then your skills just suck. |
Kowaii Rabbit
o1nk
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Posted - 2009.04.05 09:41:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Kowaii Rabbit on 05/04/2009 09:44:01
Originally by: Merin Ryskin Hint: you're an idiot. I made this post in response to a good 1v1, Phantasm vs. Hurricane, which was ruined when my target simply dropped ECM drones and warped off as soon as his tank failed
Yes...it would have been SO much better if he had released the drones and they didn't work. We should nerf them so they don't work.
That's the problem when people scream for nerfs based on a bad experience. They convince themsleves that things would be much more balanced if the tactic/module used by their opponent didn't actually work at all. Might as well just remove them from the game.
I suppose you've never had an experience where those ECM drones, which could otherwise have been replaced with damage dealing drones, didn't get a jam?
Originally by: Merin Ryskin Being required to fit ECCM is just stupid...
Yes, just like being required to fit a tank to avoid blowing up is stupid. http://www.ezy-english.com/ |
Oghma Grianainech
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.04.05 13:32:00 -
[29]
whine whine whine whine whine ......CCP REMOVE ALL SHIPS ! we need only frigs with 1 turrent ! everything else is too complicated !
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Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2009.04.05 13:54:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Robert Caldera on 05/04/2009 13:55:39
Originally by: Merin Ryskin Nerf ****ing ECM drones. A load of ECM drones should not be an automatic "get out of jail free" card in a 1v1. Currently, you can launch them and you're almost guaranteed to get a jam before you die. At least with Falcons, you know that your opponent had to spend a pilot on a dedicated ECM ship (which is paper-thin and brings nothing else to the fight), but any random ship with a drone bay can carry ECM drones for an automatic escape option.
you s*ck dude, you ever thought the ECM drones ARE FOR jamming people??? Stop requesting f*cking nerfs for everything what WORKS!
You fit a warp scrambler to scramble people and they just fit some other thing to counter you, nothing wrong with this. |
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