Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Blaidd Dwrg
|
Posted - 2009.03.26 02:58:00 -
[1]
The reason I'm asking is that with the advent of wormholes, I have decided to teach myself how to scan (which I've been doing).
In the last couple of nights I have scanned down several (what I assume to be level 4s) with four or five battleships doing the mission.
The composition varies a little but usually some CNR's maybe a Raven or Dominix but almost always an Apocalypse pulling salvage duty on the fly.
The reason I was wondering about these people (and no, I don't see how macros could be involved), is that they are all usually giberish names and without fail, they are all from different NPC starter corps and even though they may have a year in game, they have never ever joined or formed a corp once. Always still with thier starter corps.
They'll usually leave in order to let me get aggro'd but I have a MWD on my probe so I usually just fly to the very edge of the grid until the mission disappears then turn around and stop just after the mission reappears. I bookmark that spot then check back from time to time just to keep an eye on things :)
Been salvaging lots of lost drones lately but made a quick 30 million ISK mistake last night :) ****ed off NPC battleships make short work of a rigged probe lol.
Oh well, lots of work to make that up but one should really learn to not say to oneself
"Just one more than I'll log for the evening" :) That statement has cost me more than once :) You should not play EVE if tired. She WILL bite :)
Anyway, was just curious about the mission runners. I thought those guys always mined ice or something.
|
5pinDizzy
|
Posted - 2009.03.26 03:10:00 -
[2]
Yeah macroers have farmed missions for years.
They should make the last rat in the room drop a log in it's wreck that can be typed into a prompt on the acceleration gate to unlock it.
if you disagree with me then you should probably post a response and stop reading my signature. |
Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
|
Posted - 2009.03.26 03:10:00 -
[3]
The only crime they have commited is not being arsed enough to properly name their farming alts or possbily just to annoy people in local so they come to the forums and make threads like this.
Yay! Got meh sig back! ♥ Weatherman |
Blaidd Dwrg
|
Posted - 2009.03.26 03:15:00 -
[4]
lol didn't annoy me any :) In fact as far as I can tell it's all legit as these are obviously piloted craft.
Just seemed odd that I would keep running into groups of basically the very same composition with all older players and without fail, they are all in thier original NPC corp. Different corps and factions (all mixed up), but just missioning away :)
Besides was just a question :) Not a gripe.
|
Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
|
Posted - 2009.03.26 03:29:00 -
[5]
I know. Thats why I was gentle with you.
As far as odd well I have multiple accounts with alts in the npc corps that I boss around with gang warp and if you watch me mining it will obviously look like a farming operation. Well here is some news. It is a farming operation. Farming by its very definition is going through the process of a boring simple to operate but massively scaled routine. Plowing a field is like mining roids or grinding a misson. You just give some occasional basic input to guide the machine which is doing all the real work. Should we now go out and gank all the guys harvesting the food you will be eating next week? Why do people care if others farm? How else are you supposed to make isk if your not into trading or producing or scamming?
Yay! Got meh sig back! ♥ Weatherman |
Zex Maxwell
Caldari
|
Posted - 2009.03.26 03:37:00 -
[6]
/me slams the block hammer on Blaidd Dwrg head.
...
Uh wait, your not a seller... Uh well. you can stay that way. ---
|
Blaidd Dwrg
|
Posted - 2009.03.26 03:52:00 -
[7]
Owie!
:)
All of my toons have separate lives. I didn't save any alts for utilitarian purposes.
Yes training IS slow when you're advancing 6 characters on two accounts at the same pace.
|
Jesslyn Daggererux
Gallente SRIUS BISNIS Band of Bastards.
|
Posted - 2009.03.26 04:18:00 -
[8]
i have seen behavior which i attribute to the use of a well made macro of many of those that you describe. if they do not want to be suspected of this even a gibberish name like soonleaky toilet would end my suspicions instead of names that look like a seizure on a keyboard. -------------------------
Originally by: Jesslyn Daggererux GREAT CHINESE WALL OF TEXT
|
Blaidd Dwrg
|
Posted - 2009.03.26 04:32:00 -
[9]
the names didn't even jump out at me until I had info'd a few of them. After that it became one of the first things I would do. I only had astrometics II at first and was just practicing scanning things down. I wasn't even salvaging or getting involved in anyway.
After the first 4 or 5 missions I started noting the trend. The names always were things like asjkhsd, oieuysd6, shjasshdyu, lelkroeu :) Stuff like that but what initially jumped out at me was the long time players in thier original corp without exception.
Well that and it's always an Apocalypse pulling salvage duty. Are those particularly good for that purpose for some reason? different people piloting them, just usually teh group is following the same template whatever that is.
|
Marguerite Antiki
|
Posted - 2009.03.26 04:54:00 -
[10]
Farmers doing missions hey.... yerp can say I seen that, Monday saw a BS and 2 cruisers get popped in a farm followed by the next day a Cruiser and a BS (in seperate missions) get popped as well. And last night had a cruiser farming in 0.4 in some mission but alas they got away, when I came out of warp I was just inside a cloud and decloaked. Cruiser saw me and ran :( (even though I had no guns, am paper thin in a Helios and a Hobgoblin is not that big a threat)
I am not a PvP player myself, however in my corp they just call me up to find people (since I live on 0.5 and its only a small jump to low sec) and then probe them out, warp to 10 or 20kms and then watch a whole fleet of corp members fly over the top of me at the unsuspecting noob.
Note - If you ever watched Firefly / Serenity where the little ship flies at the Alliance and the reavers then follow - it looks much like that when I fly in and a whole fleet flies over the top of me.
Honestly though, I am quite shocked that they mission farmers exists and more shocked that they dont notice 4 probes going on a directional scan appear near them. but then again, its their loss for not paying attention and my salvage :)
|
|
Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N. Dara Cothrom
|
Posted - 2009.03.26 07:20:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Blaidd Dwrg lol didn't annoy me any :) In fact as far as I can tell it's all legit as these are obviously piloted craft.
Just seemed odd that I would keep running into groups of basically the very same composition with all older players and without fail, they are all in thier original NPC corp. Different corps and factions (all mixed up), but just missioning away :)
Besides was just a question :) Not a gripe.
These are the tender, innocent noobs who's playstyle must be protected by CCP regardless of any follow-on consequences to the game.
|
C Black
BLACK CARTEL MACHI MISCHIEF
|
Posted - 2009.03.26 09:29:00 -
[12]
they are not macroing if they are in a mission. What they do is have one guy running a few accounts. Normally you will have two ravens (dps), domx (support) and geddon (tank) and then hurricane (salvaging guy).
UCAM pilots as well as MM pilots have convo'ed alot of these guys to ask them about the job. Some will openly ask you who you work for? They work in shifts and we have logs that have been submitted to CCP telling how much they work for and such but you just see them continue on.
I mean really if they did hit them with the ban stick....THAT is alot of money gone!
And how my people you know will send out a corp email that cost 2 billion twice to grip at another isk seller.....SWA corp...
Love the farm the isk farmers.......
X up if you are on the "dont shoot this guy list"
C Black
Looking for old friends of WISHSONG corp... |
Deva Blackfire
D00M.
|
Posted - 2009.03.26 09:40:00 -
[13]
Back in the static plex days farmers were even macroing plexes. 5/10 drone plex for example.
|
Wet Ferret
|
Posted - 2009.03.26 09:43:00 -
[14]
Definitely isk farmers / sellers. Any legitimate player who names their character jibberish should be ready to face the consequences and be treated as a seller anyway. Names like fdlasgfslak1245 show no respect for other players and the social nature of MMOs as it is. They can all die in a fire.
But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started. |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
|
Posted - 2009.03.26 10:03:00 -
[15]
Originally by: C Black they are not macroing if they are in a mission. What they do is have one guy running a few accounts. Normally you will have two ravens (dps), domx (support) and geddon (tank) and then hurricane (salvaging guy).
UCAM pilots as well as MM pilots have convo'ed alot of these guys to ask them about the job. Some will openly ask you who you work for? They work in shifts and we have logs that have been submitted to CCP telling how much they work for and such but you just see them continue on.
I mean really if they did hit them with the ban stick....THAT is alot of money gone!
Beside that conversation logs have no real value as proof (they can easily doctored), technically they aren't violating the EULA.
It is forbidden to: - sell isk for real money; - share accounts (if you can prove that they are sharing account the banstic can hit them).
It is not forbidden to get RL money to play a specific way, i.e. join a specific corp, accept a 100% tax rate, drop all the loot in the corp hangar.
Surely it is very borderline, but that alone is not a specific violation of then EULA. Several PvP corporation have a 100% tax rate, Communist corporation demand the players to share all the loot with the corp, and so on.
Some corporation use the isks from the bounties and loot sales to pay for GTC for the corp members.
Only when all the above is linked to isk sales for RL money it become a EULA violation. I recognize that probably 95%+ of those guys are in isk sales, but that tiny fraction that isn't in that is the reason why CCP can't ban them without checking if they are really in isk sales.
|
Blaidd Dwrg
|
Posted - 2009.03.26 10:05:00 -
[16]
Well, while immersion into a game is what I am looking for when I try out a new title, meaning that spending actual real world money for in-game items (or ISK for example), seems to be defeating that purpose besides being a form of cheating, and just plain sad. Financing a war for example seems to me as if it would be the worst case senario of that form of abuse.
It seems to me as these guys are playing. They just have thier act together enough in order to be able to sell just about anything in game. That shouldn't even be a banning offence. Sounds like meta-gaming to me.
EVE is a no holds barred, anything goes environment. In all fairness to CCP. Policing and enforcing guidelines against that must be pure hell. Macro's are one thing, but farming missions using actual pilots is just organization, commitment, and obviously entepreneurship at it's best (or worst depending on ones viewpoint). I mean these guys are actually earning enough ISK to be able to finance thier in-game operations and STILL sell millions of ISK (or ships or whatever it is they sell), to whomever.
That's sort of impressive. lol, I screw up for a second and take a 30 million ISK loss due to stupidity and it takes me a long time to make that back up.
So the bottom line here is:
The most organized group(s), (ghost corps if you will), are actually the ISK farmers?
That's depressing.
(heh :) Impressively depressing)
|
Ak'athra J'ador
Amarr Can't Decide Balance of Judgment
|
Posted - 2009.03.26 10:47:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Ak''athra J''ador on 26/03/2009 10:48:09 people have been botting missions for some time now. be it through OCR or just reading through RAM. note these aren't stupid bots, they are just as good, probably even better at missions than your regular eve player.
yes, we all know how much lvl4s are worth. and yes they keep running them all day. you do the math.
they are also ruining the game for everyone else. the market is completely broken because of them. not only is stuff to cheap, but if you want to make money, you make a lot less because of them.
funny part is they are paying costumers just like you and me, so there is no way in hell CCP is ever going to do anything about them. we can complain all we want, CCP hardly gives a ****, they will just let the macroers be.
proof of that is that since when eve was created until now, no form of software has ever been developed. there is absolutely nothing protecting eve from macroers (dont believe me, check here ). if you finished high school, you have enough knowledge to easily make a mining bot. the one for mission will take a wee bit more work though :)
even the most basic software will stop most of the macroers, and those who remain, wont really have a large impact on the economy of eve.
blizzard came to the same problem once. and as much as we all hate WoW, blizzard did one respectable thing CCP doesn't seem to have the guts to do. they created a program called warden. whenever you would launch WoW, warden would launch as well and look for applications for boting and macroing. they didn't ban people immediately, they were slowly gathering cheating accounts until the banned them all at once. when they did, the number of people banned came close to the half of the population of eve.
now if we were making a bet, i would say CCP doesn't have what it takes to do it...which is sad
|
Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N. Dara Cothrom
|
Posted - 2009.03.26 10:48:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Blaidd Dwrg Well, while immersion into a game is what I am looking for when I try out a new title, meaning that spending actual real world money for in-game items (or ISK for example), seems to be defeating that purpose besides being a form of cheating, and just plain sad. Financing a war for example seems to me as if it would be the worst case senario of that form of abuse.
It seems to me as these guys are playing. They just have thier act together enough in order to be able to sell just about anything in game. That shouldn't even be a banning offence. Sounds like meta-gaming to me.
EVE is a no holds barred, anything goes environment. In all fairness to CCP. Policing and enforcing guidelines against that must be pure hell. Macro's are one thing, but farming missions using actual pilots is just organization, commitment, and obviously entepreneurship at it's best (or worst depending on ones viewpoint). I mean these guys are actually earning enough ISK to be able to finance thier in-game operations and STILL sell millions of ISK (or ships or whatever it is they sell), to whomever.
That's sort of impressive. lol, I screw up for a second and take a 30 million ISK loss due to stupidity and it takes me a long time to make that back up.
So the bottom line here is:
The most organized group(s), (ghost corps if you will), are actually the ISK farmers?
That's depressing.
(heh :) Impressively depressing)
It's not really all that impressive. Once you have your t2-fit CNR the only "operations" you have to "finance" is an occasional purchse of 250k ammo from the local market. L4 missioning is essentially risk-free. If I were being paid to do it and had 2-3-4 accounts at my disposal, I could easily make 500M/day without macroing.
And please, could someone tell me with a straight face that the swarms of badger I and Iteron III in Igunn are not macros... seriously, CCP, say it. I dare you.
|
Ak'athra J'ador
Amarr Can't Decide Balance of Judgment
|
Posted - 2009.03.26 10:54:00 -
[19]
Originally by: C Black they are not macroing if they are in a mission.
wrong, there are bots which can run missions all day, no human presence is required. such programs exits for almost any MMO on the market.
i don't see why EVE should be an exception.
|
Blaidd Dwrg
|
Posted - 2009.03.26 11:06:00 -
[20]
500M a day?
Jeez I'm doing it wrong. I hadn't considered the market impact. Yeah I spent a whole lot of time mining and manufactoring before I ever ran my first mission just so as to be able to finance my operations. It did (and does) bother me that so many people sell at below cost. Meaning that once I take the time and actually make product, that I can't even make a decent profit on my work in order to make it worthwhile.
I am a noob still (7 or 8 months in - something like that). I still have to play in phases where I do boring crap in order to acquire some wealth for long periods of time, then I spend it (while attempting to find the horn of plenty), doing missions or trying my pitiful hand at trading. The scammers really ruin that aspect of the experience as well. LOL thought that with my new mining skills, that reclaiming lost drones (lots of them to be had I discovered), might be my "IN" but one mistake in a rigged probe put that operation seriously in the red for a long time to come :)
Found me a gravemetric site (with only Astrometrics I at the time) and mined like a fool for two days until an Orca and four Hulks showed up and ate my pretty asteroid belt up in nothing flat. lol At least I mined enough Jaspet to give me 9,000 plus units of Zydrine.
500M? Gotta keep plugging away at it :)
|
|
Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N. Dara Cothrom
|
Posted - 2009.03.26 11:09:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Ak'athra J'ador
Originally by: C Black they are not macroing if they are in a mission.
wrong, there are bots which can run missions all day, no human presence is required. such programs exits for almost any MMO on the market.
i don't see why EVE should be an exception.
Especially since EvE missions are extremely predictible and repetitive.
At least wormhole PvE is a step in the right direction.
|
Akira Yamasara
|
Posted - 2009.03.26 11:19:00 -
[22]
i know of more then several people running 2 or more accounts to do missions (level 5's as well). Also: in my main's corp, we like to have a missionday at times, inviting people from noob corps to loot/salvage wich they can keep for free. Multiple BS's going true missions at high speed,..
So there's nothing unusual about multiple ships doing missions...
And when does it become farming anyway?.. how much isk per month earned this way would be the limit? Spending hours on end behind your PC('s) running missions with alt account that have all been payed for is perfectly legit. Although one might begin to wonder wether the person involved could have a life for a change :)
|
Ak'athra J'ador
Amarr Can't Decide Balance of Judgment
|
Posted - 2009.03.26 11:28:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Akira Yamasara i know of more then several people running 2 or more accounts to do missions (level 5's as well). Also: in my main's corp, we like to have a missionday at times, inviting people from noob corps to loot/salvage wich they can keep for free. Multiple BS's going true missions at high speed,..
So there's nothing unusual about multiple ships doing missions...
And when does it become farming anyway?.. how much isk per month earned this way would be the limit? Spending hours on end behind your PC('s) running missions with alt account that have all been payed for is perfectly legit. Although one might begin to wonder wether the person involved could have a life for a change :)
its not legit if there is a program running the clients, not actual people :)
Originally by: Blaidd Dwrg trying my pitiful hand at trading.
let me ruin that one for you as well :)
why do you assume there aren't any market bots?
|
Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N. Dara Cothrom
|
Posted - 2009.03.26 11:58:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Akira Yamasara i know of more then several people running 2 or more accounts to do missions (level 5's as well). Also: in my main's corp, we like to have a missionday at times, inviting people from noob corps to loot/salvage wich they can keep for free. Multiple BS's going true missions at high speed,..
So there's nothing unusual about multiple ships doing missions...
And when does it become farming anyway?.. how much isk per month earned this way would be the limit? Spending hours on end behind your PC('s) running missions with alt account that have all been payed for is perfectly legit. Although one might begin to wonder wether the person involved could have a life for a change :)
When the same guy is on 23/7 (confirmed by various memebers of the corp who log on in different TZ) for days on end, it's physically impossible that they are not breaking the EULA, either by macroing or account sharing.
|
C Black
BLACK CARTEL MACHI MISCHIEF
|
Posted - 2009.03.26 12:10:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Akira Yamasara i know of more then several people running 2 or more accounts to do missions (level 5's as well). Also: in my main's corp, we like to have a missionday at times, inviting people from noob corps to loot/salvage wich they can keep for free. Multiple BS's going true missions at high speed,..
So there's nothing unusual about multiple ships doing missions...
And when does it become farming anyway?.. how much isk per month earned this way would be the limit? Spending hours on end behind your PC('s) running missions with alt account that have all been payed for is perfectly legit. Although one might begin to wonder wether the person involved could have a life for a change :)
When the same guy is on 23/7 (confirmed by various memebers of the corp who log on in different TZ) for days on end, it's physically impossible that they are not breaking the EULA, either by macroing or account sharing.
the big one....."or account sharing." We would convo the guys after at certain time of the day and you would get one type of response and then another time you would get the guy that you ahve been talking to.
hmm....wait i only know you at certain times of the day.....yea right Looking for old friends of WISHSONG corp... |
Mara Rinn
|
Posted - 2009.03.26 12:21:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Blaidd Dwrg The composition varies a little but usually some CNR's maybe a Raven or Dominix but almost always an Apocalypse pulling salvage duty on the fly.
Well... between CNR, Dominix and Apocalypse, what else are people going to use when mission-running? There is a reason for the popularity of the CNR, and the Dominix is a great set-and-forget DPS booster. You're certainly not going to use a Falcon or stealth bomber for mission-running.
Though the question does arise of why the Apoc is salvaging instead of pew-pewing. or why an Apoc instead of a 'cane.
I know a pair of ISK farmers who fly a Raven/Dominix pair and are farming for every waking hour - one of them's me, the other is my alt.
Quote: they are all from different NPC starter corps and even though they may have a year in game, they have never ever joined or formed a corp once. Always still with thier starter corps.
Why would they leave the starter corp if all they're doing is farming ISK for their capital or supercapital flying alt? Why would they bother with a sensible name that would attract dozens of recruitment messages a day?
Quote: They'll usually leave in order to let me get aggro'd but I have a MWD on my probe so I usually just fly to the very edge of the grid until the mission disappears then turn around and stop just after the mission reappears. I bookmark that spot then check back from time to time just to keep an eye on things :)
Mission space doesn't work like that.
Quote: Anyway, was just curious about the mission runners. I thought those guys always mined ice or something.
Mission running is far more lucrative than mining or ice harvesting.
Ice harvesting is much easier to macro, which is why some people do it. Other people harvest ice simply because they can set the lasers on the ice and walk away from the keyboard for half an hour.
When it comes to hands-on-keyboard tasks, mission running is a very easy way to make ISK that doesn't require being clever about trading on the market, flying big slow ships from one end of the universe to the other, or being a fast talker and scamming people out of billions of ISK.
|
Ranik Sandaris
Caldari The Centurions Eternus Imperium Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.03.26 12:32:00 -
[27]
Originally by: 5pinDizzy Yeah macroers have farmed missions for years.
They should make the last rat in the room drop a log in it's wreck that can be typed into a prompt on the acceleration gate to unlock it.
/signed |
Ranik Sandaris
Caldari The Centurions Eternus Imperium Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.03.26 12:35:00 -
[28]
Originally by: 5pinDizzy Yeah macroers have farmed missions for years.
They should make the last rat in the room drop a log in it's wreck that can be typed into a prompt on the acceleration gate to unlock it.
/signed |
Mara Rinn
|
Posted - 2009.03.26 12:37:00 -
[29]
Originally by: 5pinDizzy They should make the last rat in the room drop a log in it's wreck that can be typed into a prompt on the acceleration gate to unlock it.
Macro program can cut and paste faster than you.
|
Merdaneth
Amarr PIE Inc.
|
Posted - 2009.03.26 12:40:00 -
[30]
Many people farm missions. Some players do it to earn isk for PvP ships, some to pimp up their mission ships, others may be doing it to earn isk to buy gametime, others might be doing it to earn isk to sell illegally.
However, FARMING IS NOT ILLEGAL.
And yes, people farming missions as 'a job' will obviously make more isk and have a bigger impact on the market than others. Then again, many high ups in 0.0 alliances make hours that will make the game seem like a job as well. ____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |