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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 34 post(s) |
Fzhal
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2009.04.02 15:59:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Fzhal on 02/04/2009 16:01:49
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
Originally by: RedSplat
Do you think its reasonable to have a situation where 4 or 5 SB's can pop a BS with the second volley fired?
this is the biggest concern we have that the volley damage scales every quickly and could be overpowered in many scenarios when combined with other factors.
With this, like any other balancing, we will see how it plays out and continue to look at tweaking the ships until we have the right overall balance.
Quote:
Also,
BOMBS
Why arent they being considered to fufill the anti BS role?
Hint: they dont curently.
Bombs require much more time to figure out the best possible changes to these which might be as simple as reducing the cost however their special case application (in null sec and against a group of targets) requires consideration. The suggestion to extend its use to low sec would be be too powerful generally however a second pass at bombs like many other things is needed.
You may say that but I disagree. Just look at the cost of the target BS, How about a raven. 86mil Raven, 10.2mil for 6 Siege Launcher II, 2.1mil for 3 BCS II, 5.2mil for 4 Large Shield Extenders II, 5.2 Mil for 2 Invul Field II, 2.4mil for 2 Medium Neut II. Total Cost is 112mil. Then you pay 32 mil for insurance and only end up losing 10 Mil if you lose the ship. (From memory but I think I am real close on this number)
Now the cost of the Stealth Bombers. Does 30 mil each sound about right? Multiply that times 5 and you have 150 Mil for 5 ships and 5 pilots. Insurance on these things is a joke so we'll say that they'd get back a conservative total of 15 mil total. Meaning if these pop the group loses a total of 75mil.
So lets say 5 Stealth Bomber Pilots versus a group of 5 in various ships. If they stuck around for a second volley then the SB group would lose 2-3 bombers (27 mil per player) to take out a Raven.
With the Stealth Bomber's low agility this still makes a bomber less effective than 5 cruisers doing 250-300 DPS.
On a seperate note.
My suggestion is to keep with the torpedoes but add in some utility. Why not give them a bonus on sensor dampeners or ECM? I think Dampeners would be better though because you could use javelins and stay out of range of most BS's. Say 2 Dampeners with range scripts could get a normal BS's targeting range down to 30 KM?
With ranged damps a lone Stealth bomber with javelins could sit at range and make a BS run away, but if it stayed in close it would be eaten by drones and whatnot. But then you add in the gang element. A Bomber and Inty can take out a BS, but if it was 2 on 2 then it would be a rough fight for both gangs.
Actually I like this idea a lot! Give Stealth Bombers a Dampener bonus along with the Torpedo bonus!
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Fzhal
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2009.04.02 17:54:00 -
[2]
In the current iteration of stealth bombers the title does not fit the ship. They are more like stealth snipers of Frigates. But with the flight time of 30 seconds anything can warp out before being damaged. I think there are much better "Snipers" like the Moa etc... Use those to take out a Rook.
The new idea for bombers fits the "Bomber" role better. High damage to big targets.
One thing I don't like currently is if you have 5 Stealth bombers cloaked and sneaking up on a BS, they will decloak eachother before they get within range of launching the Torps.
I think range damps and a sig reduction would be appropriate for these new bombers. It needs some way of defending itself.
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Fzhal
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2009.04.03 15:21:00 -
[3]
I am looking forward to these changes.
The reason I haven't liked SB's is because it takes 20-30 seconds for the cruise missiles to reach a target at range. Compounded with the fact that it can only take out frigates that can warp out in 5 seconds.
I still think that the Torp SB needs more damage. I did the math yesterday and it isn't that great when you take into account resistances. Lets say a BS with 75% resistances and the SB has 500 DPS.
At range it takes 10 seconds for the Torps to hit the target doing 5,000 Damage. 1,250 after resistances. At 20 secs the second volley hits for another 1,250 damage after resists. Etc. So it would take a SB 106 seconds, including 10 second delay, to break the main defensive 10,000 point layer of a BS. And that isn't taking into account repping.
With 5 stealth bombers it would take 30 seconds to get the the 10,000 point layer. 10 seconds for the volley to get to the target. At 20 seconds they do 6,250 after resists. At 30 secs the total is 12,500 accumulated. So we are talking about 40-50 seconds for 5 SB pilots to take out a lone BS. That is a bit long don't you think?
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Fzhal
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2009.04.03 18:01:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Fzhal on 03/04/2009 18:02:31 So just to clarify.
Are you able to cloak as long as they have not finished locking yet?
OR
Once they start targeting you you can no longer cloak?
Murashu: How good are your skills with missiles and Cov. Ops?
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Fzhal
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2009.04.03 18:46:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Eigof Tahr
Originally by: yani dumyat
Originally by: DNSBLACK
3. Cloaking Delay - 15 seconds is a close window with lag and timing. Yes with a game that is in a va****and no lag this time would work. 5-8 sec delay would be more realistic and would make the counter for these ships be the destroyer, frigs, ceptors with the fast lock times. Lets not forget the drones will also prevent this re-cloak.
In general i agree with you but i'm not sure about the counter ships being dessies frigs and ceptors, someone only has to start locking you to prevent cloaking thus a battleship can prevent you cloaking just as easily as a ceptor and once that lock is gained even battleship class weapons were killing me quickly last night and cruisers were probably the worst.
5-8 sec delay gives people a chance to lock you while retaining the only tactic bar bombs that might save this monstrosity from blobdom.
If you don't know how cloaking works, get out of this thread, you clearly have never flown a stealth bomber or any cloaking ship in combat.
You can't cloak once someone has locked on. Standard, across the board for all cloaks.
I like the idea of giving bombers immunity to bombs. Problems with bombs currently: 1. Cost -being addressed with batch change 2. Danger to self - Limited window of cloaking/warping off before you get blown up yourself 3. Danger to other bombers - Now with the short range, you will most likely kill your buddies more than the enemy -until changed, I will expect bombs to be used less. (Side story: currently bomb tactics in ops involves a close range bomb dropper while rest of gang is at range (30km-150km), safely outside the bomb range. With the new changes there will no longer be that range buffer.) 4. Too difficult to aim effectively, perhaps let us target fire and free fire, but it still wouldn't change course once fired. This would enable several bombers to "aim" together a little easier. A moving target would probably still be outside the explosion range of the bomb, but stationary targets could be hit more accuratly. 5. Possible issue with dmg on SISI compared to TQ
Even though you told me to GTFO I will stick around and add something important that you missed, concerning bombs.
Bombs can be shot down and take damage. Thus, 2 bombers of different races drop bombs at the same target. The first bomb to go off destroys the second bomb and it does no damage! Bombs only have resistance to the same damage type they do. So you are penalized because the bombers only have bonuses to ONE DAMAGE TYPE.
If using the same type of bombs then the second bomb to go off will destroy the third and subsequent bombs that are incoming.
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Fzhal
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2009.04.07 13:12:00 -
[6]
Will there be any changed to how bombs are used? I mean guessing where it will detonate in space is pretty crazy!
Here is a couple changes that could help.
1 Allow it to be sent at a single target just like a missile. Or 2 Use the spheres from scanning and incorporate it into the tactical overlay.
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