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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 34 post(s) |
Zostera
Minmatar Honour Bound Sc0rched Earth
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Posted - 2009.04.02 16:31:00 -
[1]
Very dissapointing set of changes.
I find it hard to imagine flying a bomber again which is a shame for such a potentially unique and fun ship to fly.
Simply adding the adding the cov-ops cloak and retaining cloaked speed would have made these perfect as part of a cov-ops gang. Since they will never be tacklers and always be weak their main defense was distance and the ability to re-cloak. Adding the cov-ops cloak would mean they could travel with recons and effectively set up an ambush using each ship type in it's own unique way. Recons for points and jamming, bombers for ranged dps. Inties would still be a threat burning out to them and the ship would be just as vulnerable but a little more useful than before.
Or
Make the bomb bay larger possibly with an "External bomb bay" mod. Decrease the activation cycle time too so several bombs can be deployed. Make sure each ship can fit speed mods to give it a chance to get away.
As it is I see the life of a bomber pilot like this.
Sneak up - decloak - launch torps - get locked by an intie - die before torps hit.
And totally pointless trying to operate in a situation where a bubble is deployed.
Completely the wrong way to change these ships, I can't imagine a fleet of them killing even 1 BS.
Sad to see them go this way.
Zos
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Zostera
Minmatar Honour Bound Sc0rched Earth
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Posted - 2009.04.03 08:44:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Zostera on 03/04/2009 08:45:59 Been thinking about this again today and I am still pretty dissapointed with the changes to be made, but have some constructive suggestions to make.
I do largely agree with CCP's intended role, it is the exectution which seems to be the problem.
As I see it the bombers role must be as part of a mixed recon/black ops fleet, it should not be invulnerable, and rely principly upon stealth. The counter to that is speed/range, fast locks and the use of an effective mixed fleet.
The current changes make the engagement too fast and brutal to truely emulate an effective use of stealth, and I really don't see why you wouldn't just warp a bunch of Torp Ravens in.
My suggestion would be.
Allow the use of Co-ops cloak - the bomber is a cov-ops ship and getting into postion sneakily seems fundamental to it's role. An extension on the re-cloak time would be fine with me so long as the ship can operate at range. Also keep the cloaked speed increase to allow the bomber utility in the "bombing role".
Keep cruise as the primary weapon system to allow the ships to operate at range.
Cruise damage bonuses can be tweaked to fit the role and retain the principal of the bombers operating as a pack.
Cruise flight time keeps the bombers on the field if they want the missiles to hit, or warp with a choice to survive.
An effective counter to them already exists, fast support can force them off and negate the dps. An engagement would be longer with defending support running the gauntlet of the mixed recon fleet to force the bombers off. This would force a longer engagement with lower dps and ships warping in out as in a fleet sniper fight, ships in both fleets focusing on roles and working well together.
If sustained dps from the bombers is needed at the expense of a recon defence, the bombers can spread out to make the counter harder to achieve, but then they are seperated from their own support and more vulnerable to attack. Bunch up for better protection from other recons in the fleet and take a bigger risk of being tackled and popped real fast.
End result is longer more tactical fights for both sides.
Zos
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Zostera
Minmatar Honour Bound Sc0rched Earth
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Posted - 2009.04.03 08:57:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Zostera Edited by: Zostera on 03/04/2009 08:45:59 Been thinking about this again today and I am still pretty dissapointed with the changes to be made, but have some constructive suggestions to make.
I do largely agree with CCP's intended role, it is the exectution which seems to be the problem.
As I see it the bombers role must be as part of a mixed recon/black ops fleet, it should not be invulnerable, and rely principly upon stealth. The counter to that is speed/range, fast locks and the use of an effective mixed fleet.
The current changes make the engagement too fast and brutal to truely emulate an effective use of stealth, and I really don't see why you wouldn't just warp a bunch of Torp Ravens in.
My suggestion would be.
Allow the use of Co-ops cloak - the bomber is a cov-ops ship and getting into postion sneakily seems fundamental to it's role. An extension on the re-cloak time would be fine with me so long as the ship can operate at range. Also keep the cloaked speed increase to allow the bomber utility in the "bombing role".
Keep cruise as the primary weapon system to allow the ships to operate at range.
Cruise damage bonuses can be tweaked to fit the role and retain the principal of the bombers operating as a pack.
Cruise flight time keeps the bombers on the field if they want the missiles to hit, or warp with a choice to survive.
An effective counter to them already exists, fast support can force them off and negate the dps. An engagement would be longer with defending support running the gauntlet of the mixed recon fleet to force the bombers off. This would force a longer engagement with lower dps and ships warping in out as in a fleet sniper fight, ships in both fleets focusing on roles and working well together.
If sustained dps from the bombers is needed at the expense of a recon defence, the bombers can spread out to make the counter harder to achieve, but then they are seperated from their own support and more vulnerable to attack. Bunch up for better protection from other recons in the fleet and take a bigger risk of being tackled and popped real fast.
End result is longer more tactical fights for both sides.
Zos
Thinking this through a little more it opens up the gameplay an awful lot.
A real problem with EvE atm is the blobs on gates. Bubbling a gate to infinity and beyond with a sniper BS fleet sitting out at range and support at 0 is pretty tough to break. A true black ops fleet can bridge in and help to force the snipers off or force the support to leave the gate.
Evening up the odds a bit to help the aggressors jumping in would help reduce the blob slaughter in circumstances such as these, even nerf titans in some way by forcing a DD to clear the recon fleet as it slowly nibbles away at your defending ships.
Zos
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Zostera
Minmatar Honour Bound Sc0rched Earth
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Posted - 2009.04.03 16:35:00 -
[4]
I really don't think a 400mm plate or Medium shield extender is going to make the difference here.
The point most people are making is that you must remain on the field uncloaked for 10 seconds for your torps to hit. In doing thatyou will be pointed by support. It doesn't matter how much extra HP you have to survive a few extra seconds, it's the low likelyhood of survival at all.
And realistically, does anyone actual seem to want a close range higher dps fit for this ship? The stealth bomber is a perfect example of where a ship can be focused on tactics and precise use, not Blob in and gank like so many other ship types do.
EvE PvP is getting more and more narrowly focused and boring the crap out of me.
Would be great to see the Devs respond by duplicating the ship with some of the players suggestions that keep cruise and see how that performs on Sisi instead of flogging what is clearly becoming a dead horse.
Zos
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Zostera
Minmatar Honour Bound Sc0rched Earth
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Posted - 2009.04.04 08:24:00 -
[5]
One point that escaped me so far.
If the new bomber is not a solo ship, if it runs in packs at close range....
How are we all going to avoid decloaking each other on the way in?
Zos
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Zostera
Minmatar Honour Bound Sc0rched Earth
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Posted - 2009.04.04 09:56:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Tzar'rim
Originally by: Zostera One point that escaped me so far.
If the new bomber is not a solo ship, if it runs in packs at close range....
How are we all going to avoid decloaking each other on the way in?
Zos
As covops have been doing since forever when they slingshot gangs (as there's always at least 1 idiot who warps at zero); start moving up/down as the others warp in. Sure gangwarping doesn't work but that would be a tad too easy wouldn't it. first one/scout warps in; starts moving off the plan as the others warp in using a timing system. It's not difficult, not rocketsience and all it takes is some teamwork and talking it over.
Not sure that will work so well now that the ships have to be getting closer to the target ship and also avoid hostile ships too. Add to that the complication of a bubble and perhaps having to travel a long way cloaked from a warp in spot to avoid it. Seems like a lot of fiddling about for a "fast deadly strike".
Zos
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Zostera
Minmatar Honour Bound Sc0rched Earth
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Posted - 2009.04.06 11:10:00 -
[7]
Originally by: CCP Chronotis Hey Folks,
Quick update on what we are looking at testing:
- change of bonus from torpedo explosion velocity to 10% torpedo flight time - increase of bomb velocity to 2000m/s
The first change increases the maximum possible torpedo range with max skills upto 61k and javelins to 91k which can be further increased by rigs if wanted.
Reading into this a little it seems that this actually makes the situation worse for the bomber pilots who have invested time in cruise.
Not only will it be incredibly role specific, you will require maximum skills to be effective/survive at all.
Bomber used to be a fun ship to fly with some medium skill levels, now it will be suicide with a huge investment of time on skills too.
Zos
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