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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 34 post(s) |
RedSplat
Heretic Army
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Posted - 2009.04.16 15:25:00 -
[1231]
Screwed the pooch.
and now it will take 6 months to get dev's to even pretend to look at them again.
Originally by: CCP Mitnal
I don't sleep. I am always here. Watching. Waiting.
Originally by: CCP Mitnal it does get progressively longer.
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Animus Rea
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Posted - 2009.04.16 15:28:00 -
[1232]
Do we have the base values for cpu / pg availability and how much reduction cov ops cloak will get to cpu?
nemesis preferred, but any rough idea is good :)
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Abram Enroch
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Posted - 2009.04.16 16:24:00 -
[1233]
Not to whine or cheer about the new focused role - we will adapt, like we always do. But I just can't grasp the reason behind all this.
This is not a nerf, this is not a boost.
This is not "breaking while fixing," this is not even "fixing what is not broken".
This is taking an existing ship, and turning into a whole other ship.
This is what you'd normally do when you're growing into open beta from closed beta. Doing this after 6 years is just plain ridiculuos.
Next time you think you have a fancy idea for a ship with a focused role, please just implement it as a new class.
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BetaZ
Insidious Existence RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.04.16 16:27:00 -
[1234]
Originally by: Ranger 1 I have to admit, I am a bit disappointed... mostly with the pilots that had up to this point provided well reasoned and constructive arguments for their point of view.
CCP Chronotis apparently did listen to the feedback in this thread, as the finished product is quite a bit different from the changes that were initially proposed. He did, however, stick to his guns on what the role of the SB was going to be after the patch and considered/rejected opinion based on what best achieved that goal (and overall game balance).
In short, there is no need to get crappy about this if not all of your suggestions made the final cut. Not all of the suggestions and idea's that I proposed initially saw the light of day either, but I understand why they did not.
It is quite possible that we will see further changes after these ships have been in the mix on Tranquility for a while. It is even more possible that you will find that a slight shift in your tactics will make them completely viable (like using that Rapier you like flying so much to slap a couple of webs and painter on that speed tanking BS for example).
I too would like to see a nice, high explosion velocity bonus... it would make life much simpler. On the other hand, I'm certainly not going to write them off and start throwing a tantrum because of the issue. I'll evaluate it, use tactics to compensate for this, and if necessary I'll start raising my voice (hopefully in a constructive and well reasoned way) to ask that its bonus's be tweaked in that regard. Respectfully, you might consider doing the same.
Now some minor points:
Gob, I have never had an issue with cloaked vessels de-cloaking each other. However, that might just be situational (it is hard to be sure when dealing with cloaked vessels). If this is indeed the case, I very much agree that it needs to be dealt with. I suppose if/when formation flying is implemented the solution may present itself, but I'd rather not wait until that happens.
To the pilot complaining that bombs do not explode if you warp out... they do. Your targets may have left the area of effect after you left.
To the pilot explaining that you cannot cloak while another ship is in the process of locking you, that is incorrect. You can cloak right up to the point that he attains lock.
To the pilot that observed that an increase in the cargo bay of certain bombers might need to be adjusted, good point. While I usually do not take an excessive amount of ammunition with me normally, the role of the SB is now shifting to long range/extended time behind enemy lines types of operations. While a Blockade Runner might be a very wise idea on a mission including the use of a Covert Bridge, not all uses of the SB will revolve around that. It may need a further tweak or two.
And to CCP Chronotis, overall I'm pretty well pleased with how you have handled this. The only let down was in not having any real time to put the finished product through its paces before final release (as a lot of folks are heatedly pointing out in this thread). That being said, I fully realize that a gaming company has to have certain cut off points where you absolutely must stop fiddling with things and release your creation into the wild. Hopefully more people will come to understand this, as well as realize that if things aren't perfect in this incarnation that by no means indicates that further necessary tweaks can not be made.
How many free e-cookies have you gotten from CCP? Have you ever tried to contribute something constructive to the community, instead being righteous indignation?
The fact is, with all the changes and inconveniences, we'd end up with about the same ship with just a tad shorter range and no ability to swat a few nuisance (perhaps this was to your favor? )
To me, the changes failed to accomplish the stated goal and amounted to a "factory recall". In this instance, I'd request a skill redistribution!
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Cassandra's Miner
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Posted - 2009.04.16 16:51:00 -
[1235]
Even though I have never flown a stealth bomber, even I can see how this affects the possibility of successfully using them effectively dropping dramatically now. If CCP really want to make this interesting IMHO increase their range (it is a bomber after all, bombers bomb things from long distances) to make them able to bomb things from 100km+ and nerf some of the other abilities (speed, alignment time and/or cloaking delay) as to make it even more a tactical decision when to strike but still make them easier to survive in, if used correctly.
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Zarkeer
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Posted - 2009.04.16 17:06:00 -
[1236]
42 pages of feedback about the SB and it looks like most of it was ignored. Why do you even waste your time asking for input if you are just going to do something different Chronotis?
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Spc One
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.04.16 17:39:00 -
[1237]
Just tested the "new" nemesis covert ops / stealth bomber. It totally sucks.. my torpedoes now go to max 35km instead of cruise missiles going above 80km. A frigate that can't hit frigates ? how is this possible ? It should have a range bonus for torpedoes so that torpedoes fly at least 80km or more (same as cruise) and a explosion radius reduction so i can hit frigates not just battleships.
My solutions:
- 1. Leave covert ops frigates as they were Gallente Frigate Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Cruise Missile damage and -16.66% reduction in Explosion Radius of Cruise Missiles per level
Covert Ops Skill Bonus: 5% Bonus to Cruise Missile and bomb thermal damage and multiplies the cloaked velocity by 125% per level
Role Bonus: -99% Reduction in cruise Launcher powergrid needs. -99% reduction in Bomb Lanucher CPU use and -100% targeting delay after decloaking
- 2. Optimize Cruise Missile bonuses so that user can fit 5 of them: Gallente Frigate Skill Bonus: 15% bonus to Cruise Missile damage and -16.66% reduction in Explosion Radius of Cruise Missiles per level
Covert Ops Skill Bonus: 5% Bonus to Cruise Missile and bomb thermal damage and multiplies the cloaked velocity by 125% per level
Role Bonus: -99.9% Reduction in cruise Launcher powergrid and CPU needs . -99.9% reduction in Bomb Lanucher CPU use and -100% targeting delay after decloaking
- 3. If the need for torpedoes is a must (which i disagree): Gallente Frigate Skill Bonus: 25% Reduction to torpedo explosion radius and flight time per level 50% bonus to torpedo velocity per level
Covert Ops Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to bomb thermal damage per level 15% bonus to torpedo thermal damage per level
Role Bonus: -99.65% reduction in Siege Missile Launcher powergrid needs -100% targeting delay after decloaking
The way they're now is useless ... and another good frigate is crap.
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Abram Enroch
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Posted - 2009.04.16 17:42:00 -
[1238]
Originally by: Zarkeer 42 pages of feedback about the SB and it looks like most of it was ignored. Why do you even waste your time asking for input if you are just going to do something different Chronotis?
42 ???
this is the previous "official" thread : http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1032713
locked down at 16 pages after so many objections
counting the dozens of other threads spread around, i'd say about a hundred pages
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Wolf2516
Flight of the Phoenix Dirt Nap Associates
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Posted - 2009.04.16 17:49:00 -
[1239]
Has any one tried to fit a Manitcore with Siege launchers since this patch?
I only ask as i have a striped Manitcore and can not fit 1 single Siege launcher. Seems like im not getting the Powergrid bonuses at all even thou i have cov ops to 4 and obviously Caldari frigate to 5.
Wierd? [url=http://fop.twilightlair.net/killboard/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=39012] [/url] |
Alhambra Rainwalker
Caldari Rosa Alba Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2009.04.16 18:32:00 -
[1240]
Edited by: Alhambra Rainwalker on 16/04/2009 18:32:38
Originally by: Spc One Just tested the "new" nemesis covert ops / stealth bomber. It totally sucks.. my torpedoes now go to max 35km instead of cruise missiles going above 80km. A frigate that can't hit frigates ? how is this possible ? It should have a range bonus for torpedoes so that torpedoes fly at least 80km or more (same as cruise) and a explosion radius reduction so i can hit frigates not just battleships.
You want a ship that¦s good against everything? As for range issues, use javelin torpedoes and voila lots of range.
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Esme Nomarra
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Posted - 2009.04.16 18:56:00 -
[1241]
I've only just heard about all this. My personal view is that a lot of the problem is that there is too little, other than other ships, to shoot at in EVE. I used to love flying medium bombers in MMO WW2 online flight combat sims - if you were caught by enemy fighters, you were almost certainly dead, but good flight-planning copuld improve your chances of surviving the flight to target and back. And if you made a successful attack, well, the other side didnt get so many shiny toys to play with, or as much fuel and ammo, maybe.
Before I started to play EVE I imagined there's be something analogous to that. Since starting to play EVE I've been severely disappointed to find that there isn't. SO thinking of Stealth Bombers as something liek bomber aircraft doesn;t really work.
Another thing that stealth bombers might be compared to is Motor Torpedo boats - small, agile boats that can potentially sink anything afloat IF they can hit it with their torpedos which means surviving long enough to get to where they can fire them. From what I can gather this seems to be more the direction CCP is going with SB's in the game - something that attacks other mobile combat units rather than shore installations. All well and good - but I'd miss SB's without cruise missile launchers. I;d prefer it if either SB's could choose to fit cruise missile launchers OR torpedo launchers (but not both), or alternatively, tweak SB's a little perhaps, but create a new class of small covert warship that uses torpedos or bombs.
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OilSlick Rick
Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2009.04.16 20:04:00 -
[1242]
Originally by: Alhambra Rainwalker Edited by: Alhambra Rainwalker on 16/04/2009 18:32:38
Originally by: Spc One Just tested the "new" nemesis covert ops / stealth bomber. It totally sucks.. my torpedoes now go to max 35km instead of cruise missiles going above 80km. A frigate that can't hit frigates ? how is this possible ? It should have a range bonus for torpedoes so that torpedoes fly at least 80km or more (same as cruise) and a explosion radius reduction so i can hit frigates not just battleships.
You want a ship that¦s good against everything? As for range issues, use javelin torpedoes and voila lots of range.
With implants, missile bombardment 4, missile proj 5, still only calculates to 59.535 km max with my skills. I don't get where the fabled 130km comes from.
It also has 156 m/s explosion velocity. You be the judge on that one...
You assume everyone is going to have T2 launchers by saying, Oh just use javelin and you are set.
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Spc One
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.04.16 20:30:00 -
[1243]
Originally by: Alhambra Rainwalker
You want a ship that¦s good against everything? As for range issues, use javelin torpedoes and voila lots of range.
Well i've trained for tech-2 cruise missiles and now i have to switch and train torpedoes ? You can't use Javelin torpedoes without specialization and torpedoes to level 5. So it's very limited use.
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CrestoftheStars
Caldari Eternum Pariah
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Posted - 2009.04.16 21:05:00 -
[1244]
so why again making a long range torp using ship with bonus to hitting smaller target with the torps? why not just have kept the old sb?.
if you want a anti bs, give it very low signature, faster, insane dps (1500 or so), survivabillity against bs's. and this would do the trick. and make sure that other frigs would eat it alife ___________________________________________ Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of himself without that law is both. For a wounded |
CrestoftheStars
Caldari Eternum Pariah
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Posted - 2009.04.16 21:06:00 -
[1245]
Originally by: Spc One
Originally by: Alhambra Rainwalker
You want a ship that¦s good against everything? As for range issues, use javelin torpedoes and voila lots of range.
Well i've trained for tech-2 cruise missiles and now i have to switch and train torpedoes ? You can't use Javelin torpedoes without specialization and torpedoes to level 5. So it's very limited use.
yup but we have all tryid that boat. ___________________________________________ Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of himself without that law is both. For a wounded |
Lokus Shtinkar
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Posted - 2009.04.16 21:18:00 -
[1246]
Bombers are dead !
Case closed.
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Abram Enroch
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Posted - 2009.04.16 21:39:00 -
[1247]
Edited by: Abram Enroch on 16/04/2009 21:40:08
Originally by: Lokus Shtinkar Bombers are dead !
Case closed.
They're not dead. They're alive and kicking - as long as they're in a blob of bombers.
What's dead is the fun of actually flying one. (edit for clarity: one as in 1)
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KissedByDeath
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Posted - 2009.04.16 22:16:00 -
[1248]
seriously. why ask for input if ur just gonna end up doing your own thing?
Create a new class of Heavy stealth bombers with torp/bombs and leave the old one as is.
End of story. everyone's happy, u get ur stealth bombers with torps and don't have to read another 40+ pages (as if it mattered anyway).
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Onizuka GTO
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Posted - 2009.04.16 22:29:00 -
[1249]
Edited by: Onizuka GTO on 16/04/2009 22:29:44 I dunno why you all start giving suggestion now, it's far too late, where were your suggestion 40 pages ago?
I don't like it, you don't like it, deal with it.
If you are a hardcore Bomber pilot you will still fly the damn thing, you'll still use it to do missions and you will still try and solo with it.
(guilty as charged! )
We just have to adapt to it now and give some constructive feedback here after a week or two of playing/thrashing/screaming/suiciding with it.
There is no way CCP will accept the opinions of those who have not been on SiSi and had thoroughly tested it.
I certainly won't.
So sit back people and give it to them after you had a go, it won't be any more pretty but at leased you have experience with the new "bomber" to validate your opinions, making it harder for ccp to ignore.
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Drahomi'r Bozi'dar
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Posted - 2009.04.16 23:58:00 -
[1250]
I saw the changes on patch and didnt get a chance to test in the test server. So today when i logged in i tested on some corp mates and from what ive seen, you all took a beautiful ship and just threw it to the crapper. The range is garbage, the damage isnt much better and a moving ship just laughs at ya, had a corp mate get moving on at BS and the damage was cut by a bunch. The joke isnt funny anymore. If you all really want to keep this then i will be selling mine off to those who are dumb enough be buy into the new role.
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Onizuka GTO
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Posted - 2009.04.17 01:02:00 -
[1251]
only could get 45km from my new bomber, the damage on frigates are appalling.
On crusiers its about the same as a cruise, battlecruiser are a little better, with at leased 2/3 worth with a named target painter.
Haven;t tried it on a battleship, but at the moment no point using a sensor dampener, or equip mwd, no point trying to get a range tank, although afterburners are still useful.
I would suggest speed tank to survive, but that's desperation.
not much really, to say at the moment still need a bit more thought.
But still see a big problem surviving at 45km and kill anything bigger then a cruiser....
have to try and max out Rate of Fire and see how many torps i can pump out before i can gtfo or suicidal orbiting on afteburners.
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Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
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Posted - 2009.04.17 01:17:00 -
[1252]
SBs a close range ship? I think not.
Reprocessing my SBs.
Thanx for the skill trap CCP.
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Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
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Posted - 2009.04.17 01:21:00 -
[1253]
Originally by: Dr BattleSmith SBs a close range ship? I think not.
Reprocessing my SBs.
Thanx for the skill trap CCP.
Oh will CCP buy back my expensive named cruise launchers now they are useless?
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hyesp24
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Posted - 2009.04.17 02:47:00 -
[1254]
Edited by: hyesp24 on 17/04/2009 02:51:47 I tried the new stealth bomber. bottom line it sux. had to use 2x target painters on a drake to finally do as much damage as i could. A shield rigged battlecruiser with 400m signature radius (as most battleships) and i had to use TPs to compensate for it's velocity and the higher explosion radius of torps. This leaves stealth bombers more vulnerable. Now u have to use TPs to do the intended damage to BATTLESHIPS so no more sensor damps to help u delay their targetting or reduce their targetting range.
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Zarkeer
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Posted - 2009.04.17 03:58:00 -
[1255]
Originally by: Onizuka GTO
There is no way CCP will accept the opinions of those who have not been on SiSi and had thoroughly tested it.
I certainly won't.
So sit back people and give it to them after you had a go, it won't be any more pretty but at leased you have experience with the new "bomber" to validate your opinions, making it harder for ccp to ignore.
Many, many bomber pilots have tested the new SB over the last few weeks and offered plenty of feedback. 42 pages of it just in this thread so I'm not sure where you get off saying we haven't spent time on Sisi testing it. If you look you will see about 40 pages of this thread was before the patch today so it's not just some knee-jerk reaction to todays patch notes.
CCP hasn't listened or cared about our opinions before now so what is going to change in a week or two? Anyone else notice the lack of posting from the devs over the last couple of days?
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DNSBLACK
Gallente Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Associates
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Posted - 2009.04.17 04:31:00 -
[1256]
Originally by: Zarkeer
Originally by: Onizuka GTO
There is no way CCP will accept the opinions of those who have not been on SiSi and had thoroughly tested it.
I certainly won't.
So sit back people and give it to them after you had a go, it won't be any more pretty but at leased you have experience with the new "bomber" to validate your opinions, making it harder for ccp to ignore.
Many, many bomber pilots have tested the new SB over the last few weeks and offered plenty of feedback. 42 pages of it just in this thread so I'm not sure where you get off saying we haven't spent time on Sisi testing it. If you look you will see about 40 pages of this thread was before the patch today so it's not just some knee-jerk reaction to todays patch notes.
CCP hasn't listened or cared about our opinions before now so what is going to change in a week or two? Anyone else notice the lack of posting from the devs over the last couple of days?
What you are saying is not true
1. We never tested this build on the test server.
2. They messed up the other builds time and time again.
3. " they are listening to us but not agreeing"
4. The bomber with out the explosion velocity is useless even on BS
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DasNara Aethelwulf
Blackwater Syndicate Shade Underworld
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Posted - 2009.04.17 06:08:00 -
[1257]
Thank you CCP for stopping me from playing the bomber the way i wanted to play it. Obviously I was wrong.......I needed to be in GIANT numbers shooting at very large vessels on the run or shooting at POS' (i'm pretty sure that that's what you had in mind, you didnt like the commerce raiding that it did, you wanted us in fleet fights)....thank you for correcting my mistake. Seriously...i didnt want to fly a torp raven. Did anyone say touch the bomber???? at most covert ops cloak.....did i miss something.
On the plus side I now have a shuttle that moves cloaked....thats cool.
I know that it takes weeks to make these patches and I know that I sound a little annnoy'd but I do apretiate the hard work. Just, next time, try giving us a new ship instead of taking a ship that hundreds of ppl spend months training for and changing what it did to fit your needs. please
My left is in retreat, my center is giving way; situation excellent, I attack - Joffe 1916 |
AK Archangel
Warhamsters Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.04.17 10:19:00 -
[1258]
Well since SB is dead, can CCP add probe strenght bonus to manticore so i can swap my buzzard to it ?
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Onizuka GTO
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Posted - 2009.04.17 10:51:00 -
[1259]
Originally by: DNSBLACK
What you are saying is not true
1. We never tested this build on the test server.
2. They messed up the other builds time and time again.
3. " they are listening to us but not agreeing"
4. The bomber with out the explosion velocity is useless even on BS
Ah, from what the CCP was saying, was that they had the latest changes put up and it had been tested for at leased a week.
If even those who are on the Sisi haven't even had less then a week to test this latest change, I honestly do not know what was the point of pushing out this change so early. might as well just leave it to the next patch.
But as the previous poster mention, i rather go recon in my manticore now instead of my buzzard, at leased it has somewhat better armaments.
As for the comment on Battlecruiser, you deal roughly 40 - 50% of the stated damage wqith a target painter, whether they are moving or not.
Not great, but not bad either.
shooting cruiser is a waste of ammo and i really regret wasting three volleys on a frigate.
The only good thing I can see for the manticore is POS killer, does great damage on stationary stuff.
Then again i haven't tried it on a battleship yet, haven't seen any "lost & Lonely" battleships to test it out.....
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DNSBLACK
Gallente Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Associates
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Posted - 2009.04.17 11:09:00 -
[1260]
Originally by: Onizuka GTO
Originally by: DNSBLACK
What you are saying is not true
1. We never tested this build on the test server.
2. They messed up the other builds time and time again.
3. " they are listening to us but not agreeing"
4. The bomber with out the explosion velocity is useless even on BS
Ah, from what the CCP was saying, was that they had the latest changes put up and it had been tested for at leased a week.
If even those who are on the Sisi haven't even had less then a week to test this latest change, I honestly do not know what was the point of pushing out this change so early. might as well just leave it to the next patch.
But as the previous poster mention, i rather go recon in my manticore now instead of my buzzard, at leased it has somewhat better armaments.
As for the comment on Battlecruiser, you deal roughly 40 - 50% of the stated damage wqith a target painter, whether they are moving or not.
Not great, but not bad either.
shooting cruiser is a waste of ammo and i really regret wasting three volleys on a frigate.
The only good thing I can see for the manticore is POS killer, does great damage on stationary stuff.
Then again i haven't tried it on a battleship yet, haven't seen any "lost & Lonely" battleships to test it out.....
1. The build was not on the test server for a week.
2. The 10/10/20/5/15 % hit the test server and then 30 min later the patch notes came out and announced those numbers as the final build with the wonderful bread crumb of the bomber launcher not takingup a slot.
3. If you read the orginal post asking for input you will see iam the 3rd or 5th poster. I have been with this build from the start.
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