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ChronoLynx
Caldari Federation of Freedom Fighters Aggression.
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Posted - 2009.04.02 01:02:00 -
[1]
So, who was the idiot that set it up with these bonus's and only 1 launcher point?
Caldari Cruiser Skill Bonus: 5% Bonus to Heavy and Heavy Assault Missile Launcher Rate of Fire per level 10% Bonus to ECM Target Jammer capacitor use per level
Recon Ships Skill Bonus: 30% bonus to ECM Target Jammer strength per level -96% to -100% reduction in Cloaking Device CPU use per level
Role Bonus: 80% reduction in liquid ozone consumption for cynosural field generation and 50% reduction in cynosural field duration.
Long story short fix it!
Sometimes I wish I could remember; Sometimes I wish I could forget.
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Countessa Alba
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Posted - 2009.04.04 01:45:00 -
[2]
Agreed
I am a noob, and so is my alts corp, we were decced by a bored group of 5 year old players, a bored group of noobs, and a group of the bored noobs friends. Have been ransomed by each, but have no money to pay. You know how we manage to stay afloat?
The Falcon... that's it. We use it in our small gang to jam the hell out of a nightmare with over 3 bil in isk and 60mil in sp's that refuses to leave docking range so it can de-aggress and redock. I also do not get every Jam cycle because they fit ECCM.
Our outnumbered and outgunned corp of Noobs, have inflicted more damage than they have, only because I can jam the scrammer, jam their DPS guy, or Jam their logistics guy.
So the falcon can jam at 200km+, it can also die to snipers at 200km+. You going to nerf them too? The solution is not to nerf, it is to introduce something new to the game to make a competitor.
Let me get this straight, if I whine enough you will change something that is killing me in the game rather than me being required to fit ECCM to counter it?
You are essentially taking something FC's have to plan for out of the equation so fleet combat will nix ECM as an aspect of the game.
Ultimatley nerfing 100km off the Falcons range in exchange for 1 missile hardpoint is beyond any conscionable response. Then arguing a drone bay in exchange? The falcon's role is to recon and Jam, why on earth would I ever get in close with a ship that can be popped that easily?
My entire corporation appreciates the SB fix, and if you get a COC on a BO that would be awesome too.
You realize, if you left the falcon alone, fix the SB as planned and throw on a COC on that BO, you will see a very interesting evolution in the fleet fights. Might be a little more complex than simple blob fights.
You could actually see and use Cloaked fleets. Piracy would actually become viable again in 0.0 and low sec, as it was in the fabled early years. The alliances would have more to worry about than POS warfare, and the game would garner yet another dimension of play. Then for fleet fights, imagine local filling up with hundreds of players, and not seeing anyone... talk about psychological operations... how cool would that be????
Then again... you could just nerf it because you have a bunch of whiners who got jammed for not fitting ECCM... wait... that does not make sense...
I know lets nerf blasters because I am too lazy to fit a shield booster???
-Perterbed
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Countessa Alba
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Posted - 2009.04.04 01:49:00 -
[3]
Falcon Pilots please take the time to post here.
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voogru
Gallente Massive Damage United Corporations Against Macros
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Posted - 2009.04.04 02:04:00 -
[4]
nerf falcon
people should use rooks anyway
no i dont have rook bpo
Hate Farmers? Click Here |
Countessa Alba
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Posted - 2009.04.04 02:06:00 -
[5]
liez!!!!!!!!!!!
I saw it in your hanger when I checked it with my security role!!!!!!
:-P
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Trader20
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Posted - 2009.04.04 02:52:00 -
[6]
Well since the falcons tank was it's range and that got nerf I suggest I new bonus: -96% to -100% reduction in Captial Shield Booster CPU/PG per level. The only recon that can't kill frigs solo might aswell have a big tank. |
Miyamoto Isoruku
Caldari Noir.
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Posted - 2009.04.04 06:54:00 -
[7]
My understanding was they were planning to give it a turret bonus.
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Warrio
Southern Cross Incorporated Dara Cothrom
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Posted - 2009.04.04 09:25:00 -
[8]
The Pilgrim.
That is all. sXe |
General Coochie
The Bastards
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Posted - 2009.04.04 09:54:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Countessa Alba Agreed
I am a noob, and so is my alts corp, we were decced by a bored group of 5 year old players, a bored group of noobs, and a group of the bored noobs friends. Have been ransomed by each, but have no money to pay. You know how we manage to stay afloat?
The Falcon... that's it. We use it in our small gang to jam the hell out of a nightmare with over 3 bil in isk and 60mil in sp's that refuses to leave docking range so it can de-aggress and redock. I also do not get every Jam cycle because they fit ECCM.
Our outnumbered and outgunned corp of Noobs, have inflicted more damage than they have, only because I can jam the scrammer, jam their DPS guy, or Jam their logistics guy.
So the falcon can jam at 200km+, it can also die to snipers at 200km+. You going to nerf them too? The solution is not to nerf, it is to introduce something new to the game to make a competitor.
Let me get this straight, if I whine enough you will change something that is killing me in the game rather than me being required to fit ECCM to counter it?
You are essentially taking something FC's have to plan for out of the equation so fleet combat will nix ECM as an aspect of the game.
Ultimatley nerfing 100km off the Falcons range in exchange for 1 missile hardpoint is beyond any conscionable response. Then arguing a drone bay in exchange? The falcon's role is to recon and Jam, why on earth would I ever get in close with a ship that can be popped that easily?
My entire corporation appreciates the SB fix, and if you get a COC on a BO that would be awesome too.
You realize, if you left the falcon alone, fix the SB as planned and throw on a COC on that BO, you will see a very interesting evolution in the fleet fights. Might be a little more complex than simple blob fights.
You could actually see and use Cloaked fleets. Piracy would actually become viable again in 0.0 and low sec, as it was in the fabled early years. The alliances would have more to worry about than POS warfare, and the game would garner yet another dimension of play. Then for fleet fights, imagine local filling up with hundreds of players, and not seeing anyone... talk about psychological operations... how cool would that be????
Then again... you could just nerf it because you have a bunch of whiners who got jammed for not fitting ECCM... wait... that does not make sense...
I know lets nerf blasters because I am too lazy to fit a shield booster???
-Perterbed
Yeah Falcons kept you alive. How about you switch to arazus now then? Oh right falcon is totally imbalanced compared to the other recons.
Got Cooch?, solo PvP movie
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Zackaryel
Caldari Echolalia. Shangri-La.
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Posted - 2009.04.04 10:17:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Trader20 Well since the falcons tank was it's range and that got nerf I suggest I new bonus: -96% to -100% reduction in Captial Shield Booster CPU/PG per level. The only recon that can't kill frigs solo might aswell have a big tank.
Would you fit a CSB on a ship you don't even have the capacitor to activate it ? ----------
http://www.youtube.com/user/Zackaryel |
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Palm Siwa
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Posted - 2009.04.04 10:33:00 -
[11]
adjusting the role (longrange ecm support) is ok, but destroying it isn't.
cutting range by half is doing just that and that's really disturbing.
as a falcon pilot i can only say that it is easy to make my work and my life on the battlefield difficult. all those options are surely well known. eccm is just one possibility.
nerf if you must, but maintain the role i.e. keep the range.
regards
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Khornne
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.04.04 11:56:00 -
[12]
Give the curse 200km range TBH.
-- si vis pacem, para bellum If you wish for peace, prepare for war. |
TraininVain
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Posted - 2009.04.04 12:18:00 -
[13]
lolmissile bonus
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Enden Assulu
Caldari Blood Money Inc. Blood Money Cartel
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Posted - 2009.04.04 12:44:00 -
[14]
Boost the range to 100km, still well with in nsiper range but just a bit further out of normal drone/gun range.
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Spurty
Caldari Amok. Minor Threat.
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Posted - 2009.04.04 12:51:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Khornne Give the curse 200km range TBH.
give ALL recons that range plz :P
and more importantly and nothing to do with the person quoting:
nerf up to the most outrageous, not down
And, how do ecm jamm'ed snipers hit .. um ....anything ?
If the only solution to a ship is to BLOB, says a lot you aren't listening to.
Originally by: Butter Dog
I think you'll find that 10 seconds > 1 month
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Countessa Alba
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Posted - 2009.04.04 13:38:00 -
[16]
Well the falcon lost more than half it's range
Optimal is 58km now, before it was 225km...
I can see nerfing optimal to 100-125km so its effectiveness would cancel out around 150-200km.
Remember the falcon's effectivness is based on its optimal range, once you get into falloff, ECCM owns the falcon. Problem is with 225km of optimal it is very hard to get into falloff. So for all you falcon pilots thinking... I can still Jam at 150km out... I'm good... remember you have never tried jammingin fall off range before... you are screwed! :-D
Yes 225km optimal is a lot much I agree.
However 58km optimal with a fragile ship is a bit extreme.
You are talking about a 75% nerf on range, and you are going to add 10% to the strength? I already compared the numbers for Jam strength I get 0.3 bonus to Jam in exchange for 175km of range.
Oh the plus side CCP freed up one to two Med slots on the falcon since it will no longer need sensor boosters...
A MWD falcon A tanked Falcon A Bursting Falcon.... ahhh...
Be prepared for the next round of whining "Now the falcon has too many med slots, and jams everyone in the fleet... boo hoo hoo <sob>"
Fit ECCM, I fight people with ECCM all the time and I may get one jam cycle in three when I am trying to jam multiple targets, I can perma jam one ECCM'ed boat if I put all my jammers on it, and before anyone whines about OP, think about it... that is one pilot out of the fight on each side... that is balanced.
-----------------------------The following is for your enjoyment, any similarities to actual events are coincidental in nature----------------------------------------------- Whiner: CCP!!! CCP!!! CCP: Yes, valued player, what is it? Whiner:That falcon wouldn't let me shoot my pew pew!!!! CCP: That's part of the game, valued player. Whiner: But CCP it is OP... really he is... he's OP!!! CCP: Well you should try to work with it, valued player. WHiner: But I don't wanna use ECCM!!! CCP: You are going to have to, valued player. Whiner: No I don't CCP, I'm quitting and taking my alliance with me to Darkfall!!! CCP: <reaches for sledge hammer of nerfdom> I see your point, valued player. <obliterates all usefulness of whiners frustrations> Whiner: Thank you so much CCP, you're the bestest!!! I promise not to make another ultimatum until I have another problem with my account. CCP: Well thank you, valued player. Normal player: <thinks to themselves> Damn... seriously? I thought CCP was cooler than WoW because they do not nerf when children whine, more importantly, everyone on here for the most part are adults... hmmm... well I guess I will go try Darkfall. <never says anything to CCP> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Nerfing or buffing to any extreme only hurts the game.
The missile nerf was a bit much, but I like the concept for the most part, only issue I had was why the small missiles did not own small targets even if they were going fast... isn't that what they are designed to do? However, other than that, it did not turn out so bad.
This falcon nerf may fall into the same lines, but stripping optimal by 75% overall is a bit much, maybe take the bonus to range down to 10% for Caldari Cruiser. Just does not make much sense that the T2 ship cannot reach out at all, I can see the diminished 10% over the 15% for the BB because of all the other electronics packed in there.
I do not suppose a GM could jump on here and just confirm if that change is impending like a freight train or still open for discussion. Hell i would even volunteer to help play test alternatives.
I consider myself a devious player, would love to take it to the extreme for you, and let you decide if it is still too much.
Thanks.
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Nerogk Shorn
Caldari Royal Hiigaran Navy SCUM.
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Posted - 2009.04.04 13:41:00 -
[17]
Yeah, i'm a skilled falcon pillot, and i think it desperately needs a nerf as well. It's fun flying in the thick of things. However, please for the love of god remove that damage bonus, unless you slap at least a few missile launchers on it. I've whined in the past about it not being able to kill anything, but that bonus is a waste with the slots tbh.
I really liked the idea of the rook being close range, high strength better damage dealer. I think you also nixed that, which means that it still won't be used.
The Bulbasaur Wizard D-F-A-A-B-A-A-S
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Zamolxiss
Amarr ROMANIA Renegades Legiunea ROmana
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Posted - 2009.04.04 14:04:00 -
[18]
It was meant to a 5% bonus to hybrid turret damage per level(Ishukone Style), with 3 turret hard points... someone made a mistake and it came out like that, that's hardly a reason for you to emorage and call people idiots isn't it!?
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Terianna Eri
Amarr Scrutari
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Posted - 2009.04.04 14:06:00 -
[19]
One missile hardpoint and a damage bonus is kind of a kick in the teeth. Giving it 3-4 launchers isn't going to break the ship.
I wholeheartedly welcome the lower range but damage bonus + 1 missile honestly makes me feel bad for those Falcon pilots out there __________________________________
Originally by: CCP Whisper Boo hoo. Cry some more.
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Eldern Minderhost
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Posted - 2009.04.04 17:27:00 -
[20]
your tears, they power my ships...
So your argument is that the counter to falcons is... more falcons? Sure. That must mean they are balanced, right?
You won't "die" to snipers unless you fail at piloting; warp off or jam them. You won't die to interceptors because you can, again warp off or jam them. The only thing you might die to are other recons and then you still have the option of jamming them.
Like nano before you, iWin ships tend to get nerfed. This isn't bad game design, it's saying "wow, we made a mistake with the balance of this ship, no we're going to fix that."
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Commandante Caldari
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Posted - 2009.04.04 17:34:00 -
[21]
The actual result of the Falcon nerf is the totally wrong direction. It will make the ship useless for what it was meant to be.
I agree that an optimal of 225 is too much. So lower it to 150.
The major problem of ECM is that it will be exploited by fleets as a sure win button. ECM in the hands of killmail *****s is the worst use. 7 Falcon jamming a ship what is anyway blobbed is just pathetic.
However. The Falcon is eg. one and the only way to engage solo [dual boxing] a camp with a good chance to kill some and let the rest run off. If this camp is just prepared well with a counter Falcon, ECCM, Snipers or just fast ships to scare the Falcon off ... the Falcon will fail here and you will lose definitely your ship attacking.
So what's the point to nerf the Falcon that extreme?
We could also whine: nerf camps, nerf blobs. Because they give no chance to fight back and win.
If you dual box a BS in a BC and ruin the fight for him by perma-jamming THAT'S the same way like beeing blobbed or just jumping into a Rancer camp. We have to live with that. It's not like that every fight is ruined by ECM. ECM is bad for the victim in some cases but useful in many other cases.
The Falcon nerf will support camps, blobs and piracy. They don't need ECM. But a solo player would need ECM support against a camp and blob.
So the nerf is just a result of a big whining of lazy, non-creative players ... not willing to sacrifice a slot for ECCM or thinking about tactics against a Falcon.
A Falcon at 60km is dead. Period.
CC
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Spurty
Caldari Amok. Minor Threat.
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Posted - 2009.04.04 20:08:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Spurty on 04/04/2009 20:11:42 only issue i had was ecm burst failing to jam drones larger than light yesterday in my rook vs 5 other ships on SISI.
But seriously, falcon spots its not a fight it can win, why not just cloak up?
Originally by: Butter Dog
I think you'll find that 10 seconds > 1 month
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JVol
Amarr The IMorral MAjority
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Posted - 2009.04.05 02:12:00 -
[23]
Anything past 100km and your just showin off.. 100km IS FINE TO PERMAJAM anyone you need to.. Geezuz
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Rigsta
Gallente Raddick Explorations BlackWater.
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Posted - 2009.04.05 04:29:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Spurty
LOLLERSKATES, just looked at the jam strength needed to jam drones. Heavy drones have 22 strength, because?
Because that's roughly the sensor strength of battleships, and they are battleship weapons.
Originally by: Jim McGregor I felt the disturbance... it was like a million voices suddenly stopped whining for a second. Unfortunantly it then continued.
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DMF KingBob
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Posted - 2009.04.05 05:35:00 -
[25]
Edited by: DMF KingBob on 05/04/2009 05:39:42 so i logged on to sisi too see if it is true with the 30% strengh bonus
and i can say there must be a very gay falcon pilot in the dev team wich cpp hired from the village next to rackickacky
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Laou Tzu
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Posted - 2009.04.05 11:41:00 -
[26]
more nerfs please, or just remove this ***** ship from the game alltogether
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Gluthor
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Posted - 2009.04.05 13:55:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Countessa Alba
Remember the falcon's effectivness is based on its optimal range, once you get into falloff, ECCM owns the falcon. So for all you falcon pilots thinking... I can still Jam at 150km out... I'm good... remember you have never tried jammingin fall off range before... you are screwed! :-D
what ? the counter to ECM might actually work effectivly ? sounds spot on to me :) once the balances have come into change and falcon pilots start to fall in numbers, people will begin to fit less ECCM and everything will balance out nicely.
Originally by: Countessa Alba
However 58km optimal with a fragile ship is a bit extreme.
the falcon might actually be inline with the other recons ? no way ! :)
Try and consider the other recons, and see how the current falcon compares, it is massivly out of balance. My experience with falcons in small gang warfare is that they are invincible, I can jam any tackler, and just warp away if anything starts to shoot me. We've exploited it whiles it's been out of balance, but with the new changes i'm happy to mix things up and get in close as i'm not a carebear and i'm not affraid to actually risk my ship. |
JGR Guinevere
Caldari Veteran's Department
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Posted - 2009.04.05 17:06:00 -
[28]
First off, the Falcon is NOT overpowered. I get so sick of all these people that **** and moan that compared to the other recon ships it is hands down the best. B.S. I say. Recons are not supposed to be all the same. They all have their uses and are very effective when used in the proper situation. Falcons just get a bad name because it annoys people who dont want to fit the ECCM module because it makes they OVERPOWERED armor tank slightly less OVERPOWERED. The Falcon has NO offensive capability and its ONLY defense is the jamming and range. If making the optimal range shorter is what is going to happen then the only fair thing to do is give the falcon 10% per level sheild resist and make it considerably faster cause the ship is paper thin and if you try to tank it then you will not be doing any jamming with it anyway. If not we all might as well be flying Blackbirds.
Have you ever flown a Falcon before? Probably not I am guessing or you wouldn't be complaining. Do you know what kind of pain it is to be at your optimal with this ship. I trained my butt off to get great EW skills and for my trouble I have to be 162km away from my target for maximum effect but can only warp in at 100km from anything. So, either my group has to take that into account and also have someone who is at ~60km for me to warp to or I have to spend all my free time slow boating about making bookmarks at every station, gate, asteroid belt, plant, moon, POS from at least 2 different angles. Being a good Falcon pilot is work.
Grow up people. If you don't like your races ships then train something else or ... ZOMG!.. come up with suggestions for making your ship of choice better and quit spreding the lie that Falcons are an I win button because they are not!
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JGR Guinevere
Caldari Veteran's Department
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Posted - 2009.04.05 17:12:00 -
[29]
Edited by: JGR Guinevere on 05/04/2009 17:12:45
Originally by: Laou Tzu more nerfs please, or just remove this ***** ship from the game alltogether
Your an idiot!
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RogueWing
Evolution KenZoku
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Posted - 2009.04.05 17:41:00 -
[30]
You can have your 200km range when my Rapier has Webs that reach 200km.
I want a peaceful soul. I need a bigger gun. |
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