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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 106 post(s) |
Severian Carnifex
178
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Posted - 2012.05.07 17:25:00 -
[301] - Quote
Manssell wrote:Severian Carnifex wrote:Callic Veratar wrote:gfldex wrote:For those who don't want to logon Sisi to see a single number: Quote:The initial payment for starting this war will be 542,207,944 ISK. Context man! Context! Against goons. Can't get on sisi (thanks for more awesome Mac support CCP) but for comparison, how much to Dec a 20 man corp?
very very little above 50 mill. |
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CCP Punkturis
C C P C C P Alliance
1980
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Posted - 2012.05.07 17:25:00 -
[302] - Quote
Ines Fy wrote:CCP Punkturis wrote:newer version of the war cost formula is now on Sisi - go play! can you give us some hints on how the formula is calculated?
There will be a dev blog out soonGäó CCP Punkturis | EVE UI Programmer | @CCP_Punkturis |
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Manssell
OmiHyperMultiNationalDrunksConglomerate
73
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Posted - 2012.05.07 17:36:00 -
[303] - Quote
Manssell wrote:Severian Carnifex wrote:Callic Veratar wrote:gfldex wrote:For those who don't want to logon Sisi to see a single number:
Context man! Context! Against goons. Can't get on sisi (thanks for more awesome Mac support CCP) but for comparison, how much to Dec a 20 man corp? very very little above 50 mill.
Thanks.
So the Dec shield of numbers still is there. |
Thomas Kreshant
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
65
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Posted - 2012.05.07 17:38:00 -
[304] - Quote
Well as Goonswarm is showing up as 500 odd million it's not exactly much of a shield. |
Manssell
OmiHyperMultiNationalDrunksConglomerate
73
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Posted - 2012.05.07 17:43:00 -
[305] - Quote
Thomas Kreshant wrote:Well as Goonswarm is showing up as 500 odd million it's not exactly much of a shield.
Well it does make it cheaper to Dec smaller guys for giggles over them though. |
Thomas Kreshant
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
65
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Posted - 2012.05.07 17:53:00 -
[306] - Quote
Manssell wrote:Thomas Kreshant wrote:Well as Goonswarm is showing up as 500 odd million it's not exactly much of a shield. Well it does make it cheaper to Dec smaller guys for giggles over them though.
And ? |
Manssell
OmiHyperMultiNationalDrunksConglomerate
73
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Posted - 2012.05.07 18:01:00 -
[307] - Quote
CCP Punkturis wrote:Ines Fy wrote:CCP Punkturis wrote:newer version of the war cost formula is now on Sisi - go play! can you give us some hints on how the formula is calculated? There will be a dev blog out soonGäó
Hi,
It would be nice if perhaps you could give us some idea of the basic principles you are using for the re-design in the Dev blog.
Such as, what is the basic reasoning behind increasing war dec cost with the size of the target? Since this fundamentally gives an incentive for corps to Dec smaller entities is this the basic principle behind the design or just a side effect?
For instance do you really think that Larger alliances should be given favoritism over smaller ones when designing game mechanics because there are "more" people in them? (which this War Dec formula does). Is it your opinion that designing "favoritism" into a game mechanic is even the correct way to go (as it is the mechanic now is "fair" in how it treats different size groups, larger ones still have the advantage of wealth and size of numbers but the mechanic is at least fair, where as this new one favors a larger entity over a small one)?
Is it your opinion that game mechanics should be used to force people in small corps/alliances into larger ones? Which this new formula has the finical incentive to do. What is your general outlook towards small corps and alliances? Should small corp gameplay be protected, treated the same as everyone else (I favor this), or actively discouraged (which the proposed war dec fees would do)?
If the new cost are designed to discourage "griefing" wars, does this not give incentive to grief the small over the large (if it was even designed for that at all)?
Also does this not encourage Alt padding?
And finally is it your opinion that a war between a 1000 man corp against a 20 man corp should cost the 1000 man corp less to start than the if the 20 man corp started itGǪ for the same war? And If so, do you consider or see that favoritism in any way?
And I am not talking about in the game advantages larger corp have during the actual war here (that is not relevant nor should ever be changed as far as I'm concerned), I am specifically only asking these questions in regards to the cost formula of a War Dec. |
Manssell
OmiHyperMultiNationalDrunksConglomerate
73
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Posted - 2012.05.07 18:02:00 -
[308] - Quote
Thomas Kreshant wrote:Manssell wrote:Thomas Kreshant wrote:Well as Goonswarm is showing up as 500 odd million it's not exactly much of a shield. Well it does make it cheaper to Dec smaller guys for giggles over them though. And ?
And why do large corps need extra protection in the form of higher fees? |
Helothane
Ascendent. Test Alliance Please Ignore
21
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Posted - 2012.05.07 18:18:00 -
[309] - Quote
Manssell wrote:
And why do large corps need extra protection in the form of higher fees?
It isn't protection, per se, it is paying more for having more targets of opportunity. If you wardec a 20 man corp, you are going to have far fewer targets on a daily basis than a wardec on a 1000 man corp. The 1000 man corp represents a greater chance to kill a war target, with commenserate increase in chance of loot from those kills. You want a fatter target, you have to pay for it.
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Manssell
OmiHyperMultiNationalDrunksConglomerate
73
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Posted - 2012.05.07 18:27:00 -
[310] - Quote
Helothane wrote:Manssell wrote:
And why do large corps need extra protection in the form of higher fees?
It isn't protection, per se, it is paying more for having more targets of opportunity. If you wardec a 20 man corp, you are going to have far fewer targets on a daily basis than a wardec on a 1000 man corp. The 1000 man corp represents a greater chance to kill a war target, with commenserate increase in chance of loot from those kills. You want a fatter target, you have to pay for it.
As I keep saying, this isn't duck hunt. These "targets" can shoot back. A smaller entity declaring war on a larger one is many times taking a huge risk of being stomped by the bigger guy. And if the bigger guy doesn't care to and just wants to fly around not shooting back being the victim... that's their own fault, but that shouldn't be considered the default situation. |
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Thomas Kreshant
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
66
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Posted - 2012.05.07 19:00:00 -
[311] - Quote
Manssell wrote:
And why do large corps need extra protection in the form of higher fees?
Fine fine, I don't consider 500 odd mil to be worth mentioning but if it seems like protection to you whatever I guess.
Sure why not set the wardec fee to 500 mil per week for any size corp, it's not like anyone would struggle to raise it so you could still wardec a ton of small corps or a ton of large corps without there being an issue.
Problem solved no special treatment for 'big' corps. |
GeeShizzle MacCloud
142
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Posted - 2012.05.07 19:34:00 -
[312] - Quote
Manssell wrote:Helothane wrote:Manssell wrote:
And why do large corps need extra protection in the form of higher fees?
It isn't protection, per se, it is paying more for having more targets of opportunity. If you wardec a 20 man corp, you are going to have far fewer targets on a daily basis than a wardec on a 1000 man corp. The 1000 man corp represents a greater chance to kill a war target, with commenserate increase in chance of loot from those kills. You want a fatter target, you have to pay for it. As I keep saying, this isn't duck hunt. These "targets" can shoot back. A smaller entity declaring war on a larger one is many times taking a huge risk of being stomped by the bigger guy. And if the bigger guy doesn't care to and just wants to fly around not shooting back being the victim... that's their own fault, but that shouldn't be considered the default situation.
the idea behind the more people more isk facet of the war dec is the fact you're bribing concord/navy police etc... to not interfere when engaging this person of this alliance, as well as that person of the same alliance and so on.....
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drdxie
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
83
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Posted - 2012.05.07 19:44:00 -
[313] - Quote
So I went on to sisi and tried out some of the new stuff, well tried to anyway. I like the new inventory system, took me some time to figure out that I could open different containers/drone bay in a separate screen. I was not able to find any of the new shield or drone modules in aphend area, even went to amarr. I could find them in the search, but they were not for sale anywhere. I have a toon in guristas NULL, and also couldn't find them there, so maybe I missed something. Missile enhancers.. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1235061& |
Ohh Yeah
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
60
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Posted - 2012.05.07 20:06:00 -
[314] - Quote
CCP SoniClover said that the adjustments he made to the Ancillary Shield Boosters would be on SiSi today, but alas they do not appear to be.
Any word on this? |
Bruce Vendetta
Final-Vendetta
0
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Posted - 2012.05.07 20:07:00 -
[315] - Quote
Why did you remove the linking of kill reports in chat channels? |
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CCP Punkturis
C C P C C P Alliance
1980
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Posted - 2012.05.07 20:11:00 -
[316] - Quote
Bruce Vendetta wrote:Why did you remove the linking of kill reports in chat channels?
sad news:( https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1243975#post1243975 CCP Punkturis | EVE UI Programmer | @CCP_Punkturis |
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CCP SoniClover
C C P C C P Alliance
54
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Posted - 2012.05.07 20:33:00 -
[317] - Quote
Ohh Yeah wrote:CCP SoniClover said that the adjustments he made to the Ancillary Shield Boosters would be on SiSi today, but alas they do not appear to be.
Any word on this?
This was based on my understanding that a new Sisi build would automatically include it, but this seems to not be the case. I will look into this tomorrow if it-¦s still not in then. |
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Azura Solus
D.A.M.A.G.E.
2
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Posted - 2012.05.07 20:43:00 -
[318] - Quote
I know it was stated that the details of how the war dec changes work on sisi will be posted . My question is could you give a heads up as to when this will be posted. Or have i missed it somewhere. |
Ohh Yeah
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
60
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Posted - 2012.05.07 20:45:00 -
[319] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote:Ohh Yeah wrote:CCP SoniClover said that the adjustments he made to the Ancillary Shield Boosters would be on SiSi today, but alas they do not appear to be.
Any word on this? This was based on my understanding that a new Sisi build would automatically include it, but this seems to not be the case. I will look into this tomorrow if it-¦s still not in then.
Thanks for the timely response.
I was worried that you'd second guessed yourself on that balancing call, or that someone had strong-armed you into removing those changes.
Edit: Any chance you can squeeze in a new build before you close up shop for the night? |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Comic Mischief
631
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Posted - 2012.05.07 20:48:00 -
[320] - Quote
Manssell wrote:
And why do large corps need extra protection in the form of higher fees?
Turn it around: Why should it cost more to dec two 50 pilot corps over one 100 pilot corp? http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
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Indahmawar Fazmarai
The I and F Taxation Trust
565
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Posted - 2012.05.07 20:49:00 -
[321] - Quote
Manssell wrote:CCP Punkturis wrote:Ines Fy wrote:CCP Punkturis wrote:newer version of the war cost formula is now on Sisi - go play! can you give us some hints on how the formula is calculated? There will be a dev blog out soonGäó Hi, It would be nice if perhaps you could give us some idea of the basic principles you are using for the re-design in the Dev blog. Such as, what is the basic reasoning behind increasing war dec cost with the size of the target? Since this fundamentally gives an incentive for corps to Dec smaller entities is this the basic principle behind the design or just a side effect? For instance do you really think that Larger alliances should be given favoritism over smaller ones when designing game mechanics because there are "more" people in them? (which this War Dec formula does). Is it your opinion that designing "favoritism" into a game mechanic is even the correct way to go (as it is the mechanic now is "fair" in how it treats different size groups, larger ones still have the advantage of wealth and size of numbers but the mechanic is at least fair, where as this new one favors a larger entity over a small one)? Is it your opinion that game mechanics should be used to force people in small corps/alliances into larger ones? Which this new formula has the finical incentive to do. What is your general outlook towards small corps and alliances? Should small corp gameplay be protected, treated the same as everyone else (I favor this), or actively discouraged (which the proposed war dec fees would do)? If the new cost are designed to discourage "griefing" wars, does this not give incentive to grief the small over the large (if it was even designed for that at all)? Also does this not encourage Alt padding? And finally is it your opinion that a war between a 1000 man corp against a 20 man corp should cost the 1000 man corp less to start than the if the 20 man corp started itGǪ for the same war? And If so, do you consider or see that favoritism in any way? And I am not talking about in the game advantages larger corp have during the actual war here (that is not relevant nor should ever be changed as far as I'm concerned), I am specifically only asking these questions in regards to the cost formula of a War Dec.
Also would be nice to know what is the expected cost of not playing EVE at all after being griefed for 50 measly millions a week without a chance to escape the griefing. And what would be the cost of leaving your corp as it's been wardecced by alt corps for a month. EVE residents: 5% WH; 8% Lowsec; 15% Nullsec; 72% Highsec. CSM 7: 1 highsec resident out of 14.-á
CSM demographics vs EVE demographics, nothing to worry about... |
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CCP SoniClover
C C P C C P Alliance
54
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Posted - 2012.05.07 20:53:00 -
[322] - Quote
Azura Solus wrote:I know it was stated that the details of how the war dec changes work on sisi will be posted . My question is could you give a heads up as to when this will be posted. Or have i missed it somewhere.
There will most likely be a dev blog on next Thursday.
Quick note, while a lot of the war mechanics are on Sisi already, there are a few important ones that are not there yet. So the complete system is not out yet. Should be all in over the next few days, hopefully. |
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CCP SoniClover
C C P C C P Alliance
54
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Posted - 2012.05.07 20:55:00 -
[323] - Quote
Ohh Yeah wrote:
Edit: Any chance you can squeeze in a new build before you close up shop for the night?
I-¦m at home, so not much I can do from here, unfortunately |
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Helen O'Malley
5th Battallion of Apocalypse
2
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Posted - 2012.05.07 21:59:00 -
[324] - Quote
@SoniClover
some news about Extrinsic modules stat? u said u are working to put these modules on the same level of heatsink, gyros, magstab... when we may begin to test something?
thanks in advance for your reply and for your kindness!
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Azura Solus
D.A.M.A.G.E.
2
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Posted - 2012.05.07 22:31:00 -
[325] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote:Azura Solus wrote:I know it was stated that the details of how the war dec changes work on sisi will be posted . My question is could you give a heads up as to when this will be posted. Or have i missed it somewhere. There will most likely be a dev blog on next Thursday. Quick note, while a lot of the war mechanics are on Sisi already, there are a few important ones that are not there yet. So the complete system is not out yet. Should be all in over the next few days, hopefully.
Thanks for the response look forward to checking it all out.
Edit: Also as has been put in the drone damage mod thread My 2 cents on it is increas the damage % and make it a high slot so that is will actually be a viable options for drone boats to use Since they very rarely use actual turrets. |
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CCP SoniClover
C C P C C P Alliance
56
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Posted - 2012.05.07 22:56:00 -
[326] - Quote
Regarding the drone damage module, I-¦ve upped the stats there a bit because of the no-RoF issue, this should be on Sisi soon (hopefully tomorrow). But the module is going to stay a low slot module. Drones need a bit of love, but we-¦re not going to solve all their problems in one go. Let-¦s focus on getting this out there now as a viable module on par with the other damage amplifiers, then we can start looking into what else can be done. |
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Ohh Yeah
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
60
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Posted - 2012.05.07 23:14:00 -
[327] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote:Regarding the drone damage module, I-¦ve upped the stats there a bit because of the no-RoF issue, this should be on Sisi soon (hopefully tomorrow). But the module is going to stay a low slot module. Drones need a bit of love, but we-¦re not going to solve all their problems in one go. Let-¦s focus on getting this out there now as a viable module on par with the other damage amplifiers, then we can start looking into what else can be done.
<3
You are a good dev |
Jarin Arenos
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
17
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Posted - 2012.05.08 00:10:00 -
[328] - Quote
Continuing to look at it and seeing what else needs to be done is all I ask. I can understand and respect the "cautious changes over time" methodology. |
Copine Callmeknau
Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
119
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Posted - 2012.05.08 00:22:00 -
[329] - Quote
tbh I think the new ASB could use a little tweaking. I'd make it so the thing cannot run on capacitor at all, but on the other hand have it boost double or even triple the amount.
Absolutely insane tank for the 20sec or so you can run the booster, then crippling reload.
My reasoning on this is that this damn booster is atm useless for active tanking, and it's only a minor benefit to buffer tanks as the boost amount is so low you'll only recover a small portion of your HP. Typical buffer is better helped by either another LSE, another invuln, or an EM hardener. There should be a rather awesome pic here |
Manssell
OmiHyperMultiNationalDrunksConglomerate
77
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Posted - 2012.05.08 02:11:00 -
[330] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:Manssell wrote:
And why do large corps need extra protection in the form of higher fees?
Turn it around: Why should it cost more to dec two 50 pilot corps over one 100 pilot corp?
Your paying for two wars not one. CCP doesn't charge different amounts for anything else based on size (that I know of). Corp offices cost the same for a 10 man corp as does a 100 man corp even though more people are using them. Same with SOV, a small alliance pays the same as a large one even though more pilots are using the system. Why should wars be different? |
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