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Myxx
Blacklight Incorporated Broken Chains Alliance
519
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Posted - 2012.05.03 06:07:00 -
[1] - Quote
So, I was going to buy skyrim before I learned that it requires installing Steam. I don't like Valve for reasons that have nothing to do with this, so instead I bought and tried Assassin's Creed 2. Between my frequent afking for real life stuff, I really don't have much time on my hands as of late. So, as a single player RPG, it fits.
I'm absolutely loving it. My main problem with many RPGs (and, for that matter, MMORPGs - Hello, WoW, STO, SWG, SWTOR, AOC, etc) is that they build their enviroments as something that is "just there" as opposed to something the player interacts with - a means to an end - that make for things being possible that are quite interesting and in a sense, dynamic.
There is a commonly held opinion that people don't want anything new, they want the same old **** tossed into a blender and forcefed to them.
Bullshit.
The thing I like about Assassin's Creed is the fact that the world shaping allows for many different methods to solving a problem whereas, for example in something like Mass Effect, or KOTOR1/2.. you're led down a hallway with a facade of it having an impact on things. The problem, likewise with Starwars Galaxies was that the worlds were basically flat save for terrain modifications and buildings. You couldn't, for an absurd example, sit on top of the Wayfar cantina while waiting for someone. Likewise, body disposal in AC2 can be pretty easy, as far as just dumping people into rivers/oceans/ponds or whatever. EVE devs, take note: When WIS comes out, I've got a list of people I want to toss out of the airlock of my ship or the station I reside in - this isn't a must, but it would make me (and im sure many others) very, very happy.
Thats my other gripe, many MMORPGs are erring on the side of controlling/protecting players from other players and themselves. For example in SWG, you could actually manufacture houses and other stuff for use in world (kind of like starbases in EVE, except houses in SWG weren't a huge pain in the ass and having one was actually pretty cool at times). They do this for fear of the creative ways we can collectively come up with to screw with each other. In turn, this excessive control hurts them (Hello, WoW, SWTOR - and quite possibly EVE. Hi Greyscale - we'll see).
Point is, sandboxes are awesome and should be used more with functions that promote creative things being done to people by other people. Games like WoW or SWTOR are fun for some and could be enjoyable, if you're into them - I am, at times, I admit - but the more that tools and functions reside with the player being given as many choices as possible - game functionality and otherwise, the better.
Don't get me started on UI and modification, thats for another time, hahaha.
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Surfin's PlunderBunny
Hulkageddon Orphanage
1095
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Posted - 2012.05.03 06:25:00 -
[2] - Quote
Don't bother with Skyrim, the characters have no character and they're just impossible to care about. Also I don't trust magical elves that have mastered anti gravity. I lost my horse and ran around for half an hour looking for it until I looked up. It was standing there about 40 ft. above me |
Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
2336
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Posted - 2012.05.03 09:29:00 -
[3] - Quote
Most games these days require you to install it through some kind of online service and it's going to be increasingly more common. If you're not going to deal with it, you can pretty much start ignoring all major game releases. It offers some advantages though. For example they've integrated modding support to it in steam, so you can install mods through it with a press of a button and keep it automaticly updates.
As for skyrim specifically it's a great sandbox game with good after launch support with patches and official development tools released, so there are tons of high quality mods for it with a constant stream of new content coming out. It was a good game at launch with rough edges, but patches smoothed them and with modding you can modify and upgrade it to your specific preferences and challenge levels. I recommend doing it, since the vanilla game is very easy. About 6 months after purchase and I'm still playing it fairly regularly. One of the better purchases I've made in many years. |
VKhaun Vex
Viziam Amarr Empire
322
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Posted - 2012.05.03 10:07:00 -
[4] - Quote
Nearly everything new in the MMO genre copies WoW.
People always reply to that statement with 'WoW isn't the only MMO!' because they don't reallize just how much the MMO industry has copied WoW lol... I was playing MMO's when WoW came out and there were LOTS of ways to do things. Today, everything does it all WoW's way.
Example: Looting bodies. In other original MMO's you had loot drops as bags or other widgets on the ground, direct-to-inventory looting, or no loot at all. Making bodies containers is the WORST loot system you can possibly come up with. You have to make bodies disappear or else you noobie zones will just be giant piles of dead wolves so bags let you keep loot longer than bodies and let more loot drop in an area without being covered up (bodies are much larger than bags, some bodies are larger than others), and bags let you customize by loot -IF- you want to, or just have one 'bag' graphic for all loot if you don't want to spend the dev time on it now/ever.
(EVE is bodies that pop into loot bags for reference, and it makes sense because cargo space is integral to the game, where it is an arbitrary restriction or cash shop money grab in most others)
Not only do they copy WoW, many newer MMO's such as SWTOR will go to the trouble of doing bodies as containers, and then have 'quick loot' or 'area quick loot' or even RANGED looting where you don't need to go over to it at all! They have specifically, intentionally, repeated the design KNOWING IT NEEDED FIXING and then implemented a work-around IN THE SAME GAME BEFORE LAUNCH. Think about that for a minute. That is a bean counter, investor, or producer telling them 'copy WoW' and the game dev saying 'this sucks, how can I fix it?'. There is no other explanation.
Why do I post this rant in a thread about the entertainment industry? because it's happening again.
Shooter games are copying CoD/BF. We use to have shooter games where you... shoot... at eachother. Now all your kills are from traps, explosives, indirect fire, streak rewards, vehicles, and the majority of gun kills that DO happen are from intel advantages giving you free kills.
ARPG's are copying D2. While a great game, D2 tried to push both action, and RPG stats/gear/spec elements. In the end the scales clearly tipped too far towards RPG because the action was completely negated by it. No one playing D2 dodged anything but Big D's lightning and Meph's orb, and CRUSHED everything else with stats and gear. Ironically in this context, D3 is the -ONLY- ARPG coming out that leans on real action and many hate it for having a 'dumbed down' skill set.
Action Adventure games are copying God of War. Press X, B, A, J, Z, C - TA DA YOU WON instead of actually having to use moves for both defense and offense, it's pure offense...
Pick a genre and this trend continues. If you want progress, you have to stop getting distracted by bullshit about having to be online... having to download STEAM/Origin/Whatever... needing to guy buy a copy and can't D/L it... have to pay monthly... whatever your gripe is, the games that really try something new like GW2 are where the action is, and you shouldn't put your gripes ahead of encouraging the break from 'safe developed' clones. *Charges Twilight fans with Ka-bar* -Surfin's PlunderBunny LIIIIIIIIIIINNEEEEE PIIIEEEECCCCEEE!!!!!!! -Taedrin Using relativity to irrational numbers is smart -rodyas I no longer believe we landed on the moon. -Atticus Fynch
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Sidus Isaacs
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
104
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Posted - 2012.05.03 10:17:00 -
[5] - Quote
I generally only play indie games, because many indie devs actually make new and interesting things. And thy quite often actually care about their games and see the game as an end in itself, not the money. |
Bane Necran
440
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Posted - 2012.05.03 18:02:00 -
[6] - Quote
It's what i call the 'boardroom mentality'. You see the same thing with modern movies.
Basically, their main concern is profit, so they just copy something that was successful already, instead of taking 'risks' with uncertain things. It seems to work better with movies, as people seemingly never get tired of the same formulas. They go to a movie expecting a certain experience, and the people making the movie just try to deliver what they expect. But with games, i'm not sure how many more companies are going to try and copy WoW before they realize if people wanted to play WoW they'd just play WoW.
The same mentality is also to blame for so many movies and games not wanting to be rated anything over 13+. In the boardroom they're just thinking about getting money from as many people as possible, but it often means younger and older audiences aren't as interested in it as they would be something made for their age group specifically. "It's no use crying over spilt milk, because all the forces of the universe were bent on spilling it." ~William Maugham |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
1430
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Posted - 2012.05.03 19:35:00 -
[7] - Quote
The first thing that must happen is this: ALL Marketers must DIE.
A marketer has but one function: take what already worked or what was already done, and try to do the exact same thing expecting people to think it's new.
Marketers are the reason why everything looks like a Honda Accord.
Once the marketers are on the bottom of the ocean being feasted upon by sharks and crabs, things will improve.
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stoicfaux
1009
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Posted - 2012.05.03 19:49:00 -
[8] - Quote
OP plays Second Life?
You can tell me what is and isn't Truth when you pry the tinfoil from my cold, lifeless head.
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SpaceSquirrels
278
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Posted - 2012.05.03 20:44:00 -
[9] - Quote
Should really get the witcher 2 then...
PS skyrim is amazing especially with the mod support built into steam. |
Flex Mustang
Vodka and Vice
1
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Posted - 2012.05.03 20:51:00 -
[10] - Quote
Well, The Elder Scrolls Online was announced today.
Hopefully they can carry the sandbox feel over to the new MMO.
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Myxx
Blacklight Incorporated Broken Chains Alliance
519
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Posted - 2012.05.03 21:01:00 -
[11] - Quote
Flex Mustang wrote:Well, The Elder Scrolls Online was announced today. Hopefully they can carry the sandbox feel over to the new MMO. Now that is interesting. |
TWHC Assistant
48
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Posted - 2012.05.03 23:25:00 -
[12] - Quote
Myxx wrote:Flex Mustang wrote:Well, The Elder Scrolls Online was announced today. Hopefully they can carry the sandbox feel over to the new MMO. Now that is interesting. Not to me. This pretty much sounds like the next big disappointment everyone is waiting for. My experience with TES games is that nothing is as good as the first title one has played. Everyone loves the immersion when they play it for their first time. It only never gets better from there on. Or can anyone imagine an EVE 2.0 or 3.0? A TES MMO can only be horrible ... |
Myxx
Blacklight Incorporated Broken Chains Alliance
519
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Posted - 2012.05.04 01:00:00 -
[13] - Quote
TWHC Assistant wrote:Myxx wrote:Flex Mustang wrote:Well, The Elder Scrolls Online was announced today. Hopefully they can carry the sandbox feel over to the new MMO. Now that is interesting. Not to me. This pretty much sounds like the next big disappointment everyone is waiting for. My experience with TES games is that nothing is as good as the first title one has played. Everyone loves the immersion when they play it for their first time. It only never gets better from there on. Or can anyone imagine an EVE 2.0 or 3.0? A TES MMO can only be horrible ...
I was going to refrain from this in my OP, but since you brought it up...
Part of the problem with MMOs these days is there are people that flock from one game to the next, calling each a disappointment because the game isn't the **** from the start. I equally hate stagnant, uninteresting content as much as I do these types of people. |
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Hulkageddon Orphanage
1101
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Posted - 2012.05.04 01:29:00 -
[14] - Quote
Skyrim does become playable after installing this mod
http://youtu.be/cyuNoCUm4Qw?t=1m55s |
Bane Necran
446
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Posted - 2012.05.04 02:03:00 -
[15] - Quote
Flex Mustang wrote:Well, The Elder Scrolls Online was announced today. Hopefully they can carry the sandbox feel over to the new MMO.
And it will probably be M rated. "It's no use crying over spilt milk, because all the forces of the universe were bent on spilling it." ~William Maugham |
Jon Engel
Machete Carbide
24
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Posted - 2012.05.05 18:03:00 -
[16] - Quote
Sidus Isaacs wrote:I generally only play indie games, because many indie devs actually make new and interesting things. And thy quite often actually care about their games and see the game as an end in itself, not the money.
Nobody likes hipsters. |
Herping yourDerp
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
551
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Posted - 2012.05.05 18:18:00 -
[17] - Quote
Pick up the witcher 2. sounds like its what you want.
also, skyrim is the best game to come out in the last 2 years. |
Dapud
0
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Posted - 2012.05.05 19:37:00 -
[18] - Quote
Planetside 2 has been overshadowed by GW2 a bit and it may turn out to be crap because of Sony. But it's completely F2P, no initial purchase either and part of it's skill system is similar to EVE. So you should obviously at least try that. |
Shivus Tao
Broski North Black Legion.
294
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Posted - 2012.05.05 21:27:00 -
[19] - Quote
Vanilla skyrim is ok.
It's really all about the mods. If you aren't running at least 60 core mods you're doing it wrong. |
Sophia Koblenko
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2012.05.06 00:20:00 -
[20] - Quote
I'm currently playing AC2 as well. Not sure why you think it's a good game. The way the game is made it reminds me of City of Heroes/Villains. Just like CoX its a map with generic npcs and generic quests. Add some da Vinci code-type conspiracy mumbojumo to it and you have AC2.
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VKhaun Vex
Viziam Amarr Empire
326
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Posted - 2012.05.06 01:36:00 -
[21] - Quote
Sophia Koblenko wrote:I'm currently playing AC2 as well. Not sure why you think it's a good game. The way the game is made it reminds me of City of Heroes/Villains. Just like CoX its a map with generic npcs and generic quests. Add some da Vinci code-type conspiracy mumbojumo to it and you have AC2.
This is the sea of bullshit that the MMORPG market floats on.
Every MMO is just NPC's and quests. People just play the MMORPG that hits them right. SWTOR, CoH/V, STO, it's not about game mechanics it's about aesthetics, pacing, and it's not about story quality it's about story tone. Silly vs serious, ratio and proportion. Then the people need a reason to justify to themselves why they play it vs the others other than just what they like the style and feel of.
I can't do it anymore. I play CoH/V for my math fix because their new IO set system builds hits me right, and it has lots of customization so I can always look cool in my own eyes. But perpetual characters in and of themselves are no longer enough to satisfy me. I'm not going to keep buying all these new MMO's with fake hooks. Just going to keep messing around on CoH/V until something good comes along.
Watching TSW for it's community. It looks like their intentionally building a stable niche player base from the start, and massive scale PvP so I will buy that and try it. GW2 is trying team mechanics and twitch mechanics all at once. Definitely in on that. The rest can suck it. *Charges Twilight fans with Ka-bar* -Surfin's PlunderBunny LIIIIIIIIIIINNEEEEE PIIIEEEECCCCEEE!!!!!!! -Taedrin Using relativity to irrational numbers is smart -rodyas I no longer believe we landed on the moon. -Atticus Fynch
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Mirajane Cromwell
59
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Posted - 2012.05.06 05:38:00 -
[22] - Quote
Flex Mustang wrote:Well, The Elder Scrolls Online was announced today. Hopefully they can carry the sandbox feel over to the new MMO. If you read the articles about it, you'll see that they're dumping the online version down and making WoW/SWTOR clone - there's going to be experience points based levelling (instead of skill based), no realtime combat, instances/raids, predetermined classes, quickbars for spamming actions etc. So they're basically changing everything upside down from those single player The Elder Scrolls games - the backslash from fans is hilarious if you're reading their forums. |
Myxx
Blacklight Incorporated Broken Chains Alliance
519
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Posted - 2012.05.06 05:52:00 -
[23] - Quote
Mirajane Cromwell wrote:Flex Mustang wrote:Well, The Elder Scrolls Online was announced today. Hopefully they can carry the sandbox feel over to the new MMO. If you read the articles about it, you'll see that they're dumping the online version down and making WoW/SWTOR clone - there's going to be experience points based levelling (instead of skill based), no realtime combat, instances/raids, predetermined classes, quickbars for spamming actions etc. So they're basically changing everything upside down from those single player The Elder Scrolls games - the backslash from fans is hilarious if you're reading their forums. You said all of this and didn't leave a link for the rest of us who dont read forums for games we don't play. Ohwell, I guess the prospect of a sandboxy MMO alternative to EVE is too good to be true. |
Mirajane Cromwell
59
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Posted - 2012.05.06 05:57:00 -
[24] - Quote
Myxx wrote:Mirajane Cromwell wrote:Flex Mustang wrote:Well, The Elder Scrolls Online was announced today. Hopefully they can carry the sandbox feel over to the new MMO. If you read the articles about it, you'll see that they're dumping the online version down and making WoW/SWTOR clone - there's going to be experience points based levelling (instead of skill based), no realtime combat, instances/raids, predetermined classes, quickbars for spamming actions etc. So they're basically changing everything upside down from those single player The Elder Scrolls games - the backslash from fans is hilarious if you're reading their forums. You said all of this and didn't leave a link for the rest of us who dont read forums for games we don't play. Ohwell, I guess the prospect of a sandboxy MMO alternative to EVE is too good to be true. Sorry, link to their forums is here |
Degren
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
251
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Posted - 2012.05.06 06:53:00 -
[25] - Quote
Very few people liked SWTOR.
Check out GW2 if you like third-person MMORPGs and want something fresh and well designed. I checked out Tera, similar in concept, not as good in execution.
I'm curious about The Secret World.
Otherwise, yes. The MMO game market is sadly watered down. As for other releases in the past year or so, Skyrim was fun, but a pale shadow of the previous installments in the series (freedom-wise). Shooters aren't really making money unless they're a big name series...which is sad, because those series aren't very good anymore (BF3 was fun, but Bad Company 2 was better and had better balance, m60 aside)...yeah.
I haven't tried any of the MOBA games, my friends love them. And it's been a long time since I've played any single player games, which I'm doing currently.
Also, if you're curious, you should check out the top 100 list on Reddit. (while you're at it, check out the top 100 books and movies too...and maybe read some science articles...share pictures of your cat...)
Edit: Also, I straight up stopped buying EA ****. Missing out on ME3, but oh well. Passive aggression, huh? -áNo, that's fine. |
VKhaun Vex
Viziam Amarr Empire
326
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Posted - 2012.05.06 08:38:00 -
[26] - Quote
Myxx wrote:[quote=Mirajane Cromwell]I think that one of the things that really needs to be re-worked and looked at with regards to MMOs is the uses of a sandbox providing different methods of progressing, so starter zones (ala EVE's newbie systems) aren't so much tutorials that look different from the actual enviroment and are highly polished (SWTOR, Korriban for example), but that they're apart of the enviroment that happen to have tutorials in them.
One of my favorite moments in online gaming was starting SW:G in that the tutorial was helpful (for the first iteration, back in 2003-4) to new people, but could be skipped in and of itself in lieu for being tossed out into the open to do what you liked. Its novel, now, because it could be skipped and because it was somewhat unique as far as MMO tutorials go. Hell, SWG was an oddball for MMOs in that it and EVE are really the only two prime examples of really good sandboxes.
It saddens me that there aren't more, and I'm afraid that maybe the reason for that is because dev houses are scared of them.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=8FpigqfcvlM
<3 *Charges Twilight fans with Ka-bar* -Surfin's PlunderBunny LIIIIIIIIIIINNEEEEE PIIIEEEECCCCEEE!!!!!!! -Taedrin Using relativity to irrational numbers is smart -rodyas I no longer believe we landed on the moon. -Atticus Fynch
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Sardon Darkstar
Best Path Inc. Ethereal Dawn
17
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Posted - 2012.05.06 11:20:00 -
[27] - Quote
My 2 cents, for what they're worth:
1) I chose to install Steam because I thought it's a neat service with some interesting deals every now and then. Not because it was required in order to play a particular game. I was very much looking forward to BF3 and even more so to ME3, until I learned that these games cannot be played without having Origin installed. So, goodbye BF3 and ME3. I'm not going to be forced to install crap I do not want in order to use software that I frikken paid for!
2) I remember when Perpetual Entertainment announced they were going to make ST:O. I joined a community forum where many interested Trekkies and MMO gamers exchanged ideas and expectations, even the guys from PE joined and gave us the feeling we were actually helping shape the new game. "Please, don't make it a WoW-in-space game" was our biggest concern. How disappointed we were.
I'll just stick with Eve, BFBC2 and Witcher 2. |
Myxx
Blacklight Incorporated Broken Chains Alliance
520
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Posted - 2012.05.06 20:32:00 -
[28] - Quote
VKhaun Vex wrote:Myxx wrote:I think that one of the things that really needs to be re-worked and looked at with regards to MMOs is the uses of a sandbox providing different methods of progressing, so starter zones (ala EVE's newbie systems) aren't so much tutorials that look different from the actual enviroment and are highly polished (SWTOR, Korriban for example), but that they're apart of the enviroment that happen to have tutorials in them.
One of my favorite moments in online gaming was starting SW:G in that the tutorial was helpful (for the first iteration, back in 2003-4) to new people, but could be skipped in and of itself in lieu for being tossed out into the open to do what you liked. Its novel, now, because it could be skipped and because it was somewhat unique as far as MMO tutorials go. Hell, SWG was an oddball for MMOs in that it and EVE are really the only two prime examples of really good sandboxes.
It saddens me that there aren't more, and I'm afraid that maybe the reason for that is because dev houses are scared of them. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=8FpigqfcvlM<3 Yes. Mind. Blown. Awesome example of what I meant. |
Bane Necran
464
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Posted - 2012.05.06 21:36:00 -
[29] - Quote
Degren wrote:I'm curious about The Secret World.
The theme is right up my alley, so i'm pretty curious as well. Already signed up for beta, but i think they're only choosing beta participants who play their browser game using facebook, and i'll never have a facebook page.
"It's no use crying over spilt milk, because all the forces of the universe were bent on spilling it." ~William Maugham |
NeoShocker
Interstellar eXodus BricK sQuAD.
120
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Posted - 2012.05.07 14:04:00 -
[30] - Quote
Degren wrote:Very few people liked SWTOR.
Edit: Also, I straight up stopped buying EA ****. Missing out on ME3, but oh well.
You aint the only one that is missing out ME3, especially BF3 where I was super Excited for. :-) Death to EA!
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