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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
m3rr
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Posted - 2009.04.07 21:18:00 -
[1]
The concept of refining arrays is great but in reality they are very useless. Who would refine anything at all with 65% waste or even 25% waste.
The problem with refining arrays is that anyone can refine better. No one is going to use them when you can just refine at a station and get a near perfect (or perfect with the right skills or implants) refine.
Refining arrays either need a boost (like the intensive does a 99.5% refine and the basic refining array does an 85% refine) or allow refining arrays to be affected by skills.
At the moment, anyone with access to a station or a large hauling ship will never ever use a refining array. It also doesn't make sense why they would be so bad to the point of not being used at all.
And people may argue that the reason the refines are so poor is because you can do them in any system. Well in this day and age, most corps either have an orca, a rorq, or a jump freighter to haul it back to their favorite refining station and get a nice 100% refine.
It wouldn't hurt to buff the refining arrays, especially considering how unused they are at the moment.
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Sidrat Flush
Caldari Life is Experience
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Posted - 2009.04.07 21:24:00 -
[2]
Look it's an alternative and an alternative is better than 40+ jumps right.
Please be gratefull with what you've got and learn (please learn) about what you NEED. -------------------------- Life is about memories the more the better. EXP-L Refining Calculator
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Tridgit
The New Era HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2009.04.07 21:46:00 -
[3]
Quote: Look it's an alternative and an alternative is better than 40+ jumps right.
To add to the above quote: Where you gunna find a station in W-space
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Clansworth
Good Rock Materials
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Posted - 2009.04.07 21:59:00 -
[4]
They still do make great sense for ice... also, keep some perspective, there used to be practically NO stations out in 0.0, and the introduction of these greatly improved the mobility of high-end minerals.
System Influence |
m3rr
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Posted - 2009.04.07 23:44:00 -
[5]
At this point in eve, you will never have to do 40+ jumps to refine anywhere. And any corp that would want to start out fresh in 0.0 space will import from empire space or live in npc 0.0 space. If you are living out in 0.0 space, you are living fairly close to a station you own and control, or you are living in NPC space where stations are plentiful. In low sec, it is the same. There are stations everywhere.
The thing is, why even bother having it refine that bad. I know it is an option and all, but having 65% waste is so bad that people wouldn't even use it. Why even bother doing that kind of refine when you could jump it to a station (and I am talking about many jumps through a region or two, highly unrealistic) and refine it before the refinery array would even finish processing the load.
Its like saying that something should remain bad 'because thats all you got' even though it could be fixed and balanced to become useful.
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Yarinor
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Posted - 2009.04.08 00:01:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Tridgit
Quote: Look it's an alternative and an alternative is better than 40+ jumps right.
To add to the above quote: Where you gunna find a station in W-space
To add to the above quote: Why would anyone put up outposts then?
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Tridgit
The New Era HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2009.04.08 00:33:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Yarinor
Originally by: Tridgit
Quote: Look it's an alternative and an alternative is better than 40+ jumps right.
To add to the above quote: Where you gunna find a station in W-space
To add to the above quote: Why would anyone put up outposts then?
To question the above quote: How would anyone go about getting an outpost in w-space?
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Enkindu
Gallente Seneca Federation
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Posted - 2009.04.08 03:07:00 -
[8]
Refining arrays have two uses in my experience:
1) refining ice, for which they have decent efficiency
2) refining ores specifically for building consumables (like ammo and drones) at assembly arrays in really remote systems (like w-space). Yeah the waste stinks, but you can still get enough raw mats to replace your charges and ogres.
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Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
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Posted - 2009.04.08 11:30:00 -
[9]
Refinery arrays are for refining ice. For Ice there is no cap.
Using them to refine ore or drone loot is a throwback to when there were not player built outposts or Rorquals.
They're not supposed to be an alternative to outposts or npc stations, or they would negate the tens of billions that people invested.
Refining arrays are affected by skills by the way, their base is 50%. The caps are simply on top of that for Ore/Drone loot.
The point is they don't need a buff because they're crap compared to the alternatives, you're SUPPOSED to use the alternatives.
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Gaius Aemilius
Wormhole-space Surveying and Exploitation
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Posted - 2009.04.08 14:11:00 -
[10]
Refining arrays do suck.
But when you can't get a Rorq in, and you're 1,345,957,784 jumps from hi-sec. . . . (rough estimate on that distance, not in-game)
Anyhow I guess I'm just getting everyone's back who has said that yes they basically suck and they are those who have no other options for quick and easy access to mins to build locally with.
If you're mining for profit, you had best not be refining at an array.
But if you're say . . . a w-space colony .. . . well then their utility becomes more obvious.
Wormholes ate my sig.
They said it was yummy. |
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Braaage
Ministry of Craft
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Posted - 2009.04.08 16:46:00 -
[11]
Maybe it's time the Refining Arrays are re-evaluated since the introduction of the Rorqual to make them more useful again with a view to refining ore? --
POSs, Outposts, Exploration, Mining, Invention, Boosters, EA EVE Database, T2/T3 production & more |
demonfurbie
Minmatar Covert-Nexus Dark Cadre
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Posted - 2009.04.08 19:49:00 -
[12]
i think it would be kinda cool to have them refine better or even better still have an ore pos mod that will compress ore
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Agor Dirdonen
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Posted - 2009.04.08 21:40:00 -
[13]
Originally by: m3rr
And people may argue that the reason the refines are so poor is because you can do them in any system. Well in this day and age, most corps either have an orca, a rorq, or a jump freighter to haul it back to their favorite refining station and get a nice 100% refine.
It wouldn't hurt to buff the refining arrays, especially considering how unused they are at the moment.
Right, so why do you need a refining array? Or better, why are you complaining about the refining array when it's so easy to haul it all to your favorite refining station and get a nice 100 percent refine?
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Caldari 5
Amarr Youngsters Other Underestimate Never Geniuses Black Mesa Project
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Posted - 2009.04.09 00:58:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Agor Dirdonen
Originally by: m3rr
And people may argue that the reason the refines are so poor is because you can do them in any system. Well in this day and age, most corps either have an orca, a rorq, or a jump freighter to haul it back to their favorite refining station and get a nice 100% refine.
It wouldn't hurt to buff the refining arrays, especially considering how unused they are at the moment.
Right, so why do you need a refining array? Or better, why are you complaining about the refining array when it's so easy to haul it all to your favorite refining station and get a nice 100 percent refine?
I think it was more that a toon's skills aren't taken into account when refining at an array. if they were it would be just as good as refining in empire with a 25% to 50% base yield, rather than a 65% Max Yield as it is now.
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Sir Substance
Minmatar MagiTech Alliance Inc. MagiTech Corp
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Posted - 2009.04.09 04:58:00 -
[15]
there are many times when a refining array might be useful. no local refining stations is one. setting up a base in hostile territory where you dont have access to another station is another. wormholes are a third.
refining arrays arnt meant to be good, or profitable, or fast, or a substitute for stations. they are there for when you simply dont have another choice.
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buttesauce
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Posted - 2009.04.09 05:23:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Agor Dirdonen
Originally by: m3rr
And people may argue that the reason the refines are so poor is because you can do them in any system. Well in this day and age, most corps either have an orca, a rorq, or a jump freighter to haul it back to their favorite refining station and get a nice 100% refine.
It wouldn't hurt to buff the refining arrays, especially considering how unused they are at the moment.
Right, so why do you need a refining array? Or better, why are you complaining about the refining array when it's so easy to haul it all to your favorite refining station and get a nice 100 percent refine?
quite simply at the moment I dont need a refining array. they are useless to the point where i would rather use a 1.5b isk ship to move my ore and spend money to get a better refine. its not easier but its worth it in the end. no one said being wealthy is easy.
that said, if they were better it would open up more avenues of game play. it would be nice to be able to setup an actual dedicated mining pos. but anyone with half a brain will just get a JF or rorq to move it all.
just because something is bad doesn't mean it has to remain bad. its just limiting gameplay.
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Miyamoto Uroki
Caldari Katsu Corporation
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Posted - 2009.04.09 06:56:00 -
[17]
They really could need a better efficiency, yeah. We used one in our first WH expedition, but decided its just not worth the cargo space..
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Clansworth
Good Rock Materials
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Posted - 2009.04.09 08:11:00 -
[18]
It really does just depend on your situation, as most things in eve.. The game would have no interest if there was a perfect tool for every situation.. where would the challenge be?
Keep in mind, the #1 key driving force for the proliferation of outposts was refining. That is why the minmatar outpost was initially the first built in any area (followed usually by an amarr factory outpost nearby). Because of this, the refining array has sort of been it's own demise, but that does not mean that it now needs to be improved. It still has a place.. seriously, even if it WERE 100% capable, the rate of refining would still make it easier to use a station/outpost, since they are close enough by for pretty much everyone (except WH).
System Influence |
Kuranta
Minmatar Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2009.04.09 08:17:00 -
[19]
If you want to run a reaction chain in a WH System, deal with it.
The POS istelf is as good as invincible in W-space allready. Fair enough that getting the mins is more of a hassle than having a POS in low-sec.
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buttesauce
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Posted - 2009.04.09 09:09:00 -
[20]
really the best thing to do is just make it take into account the operators skills
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Clansworth
Good Rock Materials
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Posted - 2009.04.09 10:02:00 -
[21]
They already DO take into account the operators skill. All refining arrays are base 50%. Skills/implants are then applied, then the yields are capped at 75% or 35%. Obviously, skills never have an actual effect on the 35% array (except with ice), but you have to have at least 25% from skills to get the intensive arrays to the 75% cap.
System Influence |
Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
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Posted - 2009.04.09 11:07:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Braaage Maybe it's time the Refining Arrays are re-evaluated since the introduction of the Rorqual to make them more useful again with a view to refining ore?
My previous point still stands, for their isk cost they are as valuable as they should be.
Bump their cost up by a few billion isk and you can look at making them more useful.
They're still just as useful as they used to be, the only reason they're not used is because the alternatives are better (and more costly). A boost to the arrays would be nerf to the alternatives.
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bob spy2
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Posted - 2009.04.09 22:14:00 -
[23]
Refining arrays are going to make all the difference for those who set up WH pos's True the refine rates suck, but it makes those arrays invaluable. Would it be nice if CCP increased the rates? of course, but then why should they change a game mechanic that works..... if you have a decient mining fleet in there, that array should never be shutting down and pay for itself quickly (heck i wish i had cpu for a second) |
Kirenna Zhon
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Posted - 2009.04.21 22:13:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Kirenna Zhon on 21/04/2009 22:18:10 The only change I want to the refining arrays is to the fact that someone has to be present 23/7 to make them go. As it is now, I am 3million m3 behind the miners in processing the ore. I have 1 35% going and 1 75% going trying to keep up, and it's just not happening. I'd have to have a permanent IV in my arm pumping me with stims for 4+ days to even get through all of the ore I have now, let alone what the miners are working on now.
So what I propose is to have it stay similar to how it is now, increase the capacity (or have it be able to hook up to a corp hangar array to get ore), but keep the cycle times as they are now (1hr on refining array, 90mins on med. intensive array, etc) and they cycle automatically until there is no ore left to refine. It's just silly that the POS tower can handle everything except this, and it's something that's a major time sink for those in management positions.
I need a break, but I can't because the miners won't. |
dankness420
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Posted - 2009.04.22 04:47:00 -
[25]
I always thought it would be cool to have a super intensive refining array which would be huge and use like 2500 cpu on a tower but give like 90% refines. that way you could get good refines at the cost of having a good portion of your tower be devoted to it.
also ore silos would be nice. allow us to have a largo silo and the refining array would refine what is in the silo similar to how reactors work on moon materials.
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2009.04.22 13:22:00 -
[26]
Does it matter?
Just use the lame Jump freighters like everyone else.
Wherever you went - Here you are.
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Kirenna Zhon
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Posted - 2009.04.23 19:55:00 -
[27]
Give me the ability to use them in WHs and I wouldn't be here.
Right now I have the option of doing ~200 trips through the wormhole (33km3 per trip, ~3mil m3 of unrefined ore, each way) or letting the ore pile up while I try desperately to refine it all on site. Those 200 trips = 2,500,000,000 kg, or 2.5 fresh wormholes. Not an option.
I don't care about the waste (25% is acceptable). I just want it to be refined without me losing sleep.
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XXSketchxx
Gallente Remote Soviet Industries
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Posted - 2009.04.23 23:57:00 -
[28]
After all the anomalies, radars, ladars, and mags are exhausted, I mine arkonor and bistot in my corp's little WH system. That stuff piles up and we really do not want to transport it out via haulers or an orca. Thus, while the waste is annoying, refining arrays do find a purpose here.
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Braaage
Ministry of Craft
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Posted - 2009.04.24 09:12:00 -
[29]
Originally by: XXSketchxx After all the anomalies, radars, ladars, and mags are exhausted, I mine arkonor and bistot in my corp's little WH system. That stuff piles up and we really do not want to transport it out via haulers or an orca. Thus, while the waste is annoying, refining arrays do find a purpose here.
Why not use a Rorqual and compress it? --
POSs, Outposts, Exploration, Mining, Invention, Boosters, EA EVE Database, T2/T3 production & more |
Arous Drephius
Perkone
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Posted - 2009.04.24 10:49:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Braaage Why not use a Rorqual and compress it?
The Rorq might not fit through the WH.
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