Pages: 1 2 3 4 :: [one page] |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Mistress Suffering
Einherjar Rising Cry Havoc.
|
Posted - 2009.04.08 07:00:00 -
[1]
I assume the conceit behind killmails to be CONCORD record-keeping on ship destruction. Clearly CONCORD has already addressed the issue of 'what happens if an unregistered pirate (NPC) lays the final blow?' - the killmail is awarded to the last registered pilot (player) to fire upon the target before its death. If no such pilot is listed, then only the lossmail is generated.
Yet CONCORD's record-keeping somehow can't handle the event of a triggered self-destruct cycle on the ship while that ship is in battle. This strikes me as absurd. It should treat this in exactly the same fashion - generating a killmail to the last registered pilot (player) to have fired upon that target before its death. If no such pilot exists, then only the lossmail is generated.
This makes sense from an in-game conceit, and is trivial from a code standpoint (use the same code!)
The current no killmail generated for self-destructs is frankly, sloppy design. From a gameplay standpoint, it completely fails to take into account normal reasonable gameplay where smaller ships overwhelm larger more durable vessels. That should be exactly the sort of situation we want to _encourage_. Don't pressure people to bring more firepower, reward them for bringing less. Killed a battleship with 4 frigates? Excellent! Not, bzzt.. no killmail because there's no way you'll do enough damage to blow it up before the self-destruct goes through.
This same broken logic is even more evident when taken to the capital and super-capital level. Stupid carrier gets in too deep vs a group of sub-caps? Great, that should be a glorious takedown and corresponding killmail. Instead, you can just self-destruct away and know that the killmail will be hidden.
Super-capitals are even worse. Unless you're just doing an overwhelming gank, it is trivial for them to self-destruct before dying. Once again, the battles that are actually close and glorious are the ones the current code spits upon.
The advent of overheating makes this even worse, since you can overheat your hardeners and reppers, knowing this is only doable short-term, but you only need to last long enough for the self-destruct to finish anyways.
Killmails should be a lasting record of in-game action. If the ship dies, record it appropriately.
Please correct the current killmail logic to treat self-destruction in exactly the same way NPC kills are handled. The current approach is simply bad.
|
Khadrine
|
Posted - 2009.04.08 07:17:00 -
[2]
I would love to add my two bits to this, however, Mistress Suffering has already said what I would, but far more eloquently. I fully support this idea.
|
Lucille Wu
|
Posted - 2009.04.08 07:27:00 -
[3]
Mistress is right. Do it ccp. :D
|
Arcturus Io
Shade. Penumbra Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.04.08 07:41:00 -
[4]
/signed
|
whispous
Gallente Neckbeards International
|
Posted - 2009.04.08 07:42:00 -
[5]
/signed
|
Ikoma Diam
|
Posted - 2009.04.08 07:43:00 -
[6]
Agreed.
|
Rumpelstilski
Caldari Divine Retribution Sons of Tangra
|
Posted - 2009.04.08 08:20:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Rumpelstilski on 08/04/2009 08:20:11 /signed
Self destruct kms should be handled like pos kms. They go to the top damage dealer if there was a player piloted ship involved or to the owner of the pos (or in this case, only to the self destructed victim).
|
Dani Leone
Gallente Freelancer Union Unaffiliated
|
Posted - 2009.04.08 09:27:00 -
[8]
Fully agreed, the ship was lost, it took damage, lets see the results. -----------------------------
|
Vasili Z
Pyre of Gods
|
Posted - 2009.04.08 09:30:00 -
[9]
signed -------
Eve requires no skill anymore |
Lubomir Penev
interimo End of The Line.
|
Posted - 2009.04.08 09:53:00 -
[10]
Completely agree with the OP, also self destructing now really lacks balance, if you choose to deny others the loot you should at least be denied the insurance payout.
Also the system as it is encourage capital blobbing if you want to ensure you get the loot, which I don't think is good for the game... -- 20081014 : emoragequit, char transfered to a friend, 20090317 : back under original ownership
|
|
Janas VonVarloria
|
Posted - 2009.04.08 11:47:00 -
[11]
Ok, I am going to add a new issue I have with Killmail. Killmails are a bit biased. When you kill someone, you get the KM, we all know about the final blow, but what if someone helps you??? I think that if you are able to get a shot off on the target you are intitled to a record of damage. So, if a ship goes down and you were apart of it you should get a KM. Most Corps and Alliances use kilboards to see their members progress. Instead of running around asking who got the KM you should have your own. It would really help with the confusion and lessen the constant links given just to get the story straight. It would also help with intel problems because you have a record stating who killed who.
|
McReaction
|
Posted - 2009.04.08 13:31:00 -
[12]
/signed
CCP! - Get to work ;D
|
Sepner
Caldari Phoenix Plague of the Pariah
|
Posted - 2009.04.08 13:41:00 -
[13]
agreed
|
Daedalus II
|
Posted - 2009.04.08 13:47:00 -
[14]
I can understand that you want killmails on someone you have shot at, but the problems with killmails on a self destruct is that you can't determine that he self destructed due to the damage.
What if someone is about to self destruct his ship for the insurance and some asshat flies by in an interceptor, fires a few shots and then get destroyed by a third part. Should the interceptor get a killmail on the self destruct for the minimal damage he inflicted (which still was the most damage)? How long after someone takes damage does a self destruct incur a kill mail? you still get it after he docks and undocks again? After DT? After a week? A month?
The problem is that the attacked ship can survive the attack and at a later time choose to self destruct by some whole other reason. Why should someone get a kill mail for that? How do you decide if it's at "a later time"?
These highly advanced and philosophical quesions is why I think the current system is the best ;)
|
Nnamuachs
Caldari Kiith Paktu Veneratio Venator Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.04.08 13:57:00 -
[15]
This has been brought up many times before, and there are 2 views to look at.
Firstly i'd like to say, i do not support this option. From my point of view, the self destruct is the last "**** you" the guy can give to his assaulters before going down in a fiery death. You get no mods and it deprives the attackers of their most valued item, the killmail.
If you want to look at this from a logical point of view. The self destructer is getting the final blow on his own ship, which is why he is the only one getting the mail, and tbh, he should be the only one to get the mail. Your talk of concord recording all ship destructions is moot, because that ship destruction would register as a self destruct, so why should concord give anyone else the information for that ship since it was so obviously in their book, an intentional self destruct.
Personally, for all the fights i've seen or been in, i've only ever seen one ship able to self destruct before they went down, and i podded the guy for doing it. And tbh, realistically, shouldnt concord treat npc's as players and give them the mails anyways if they're the final blow, why the distinction if you want to try and explain why things should work under the rules of canon, which can be easily refuted under those same rulesets.
As for those saying /signed
just to paraphrase CCP "Please do not post /signed, it is not constructive to the thread"
|
Janas VonVarloria
|
Posted - 2009.04.08 14:03:00 -
[16]
Ok the way I see it is that the Kill Mail is just a record.... If the bastard SDs then show he did such. It's a cowards way out, but fine. If you shot at him before he blows his ship to oblivion you should still get a KB for credit. You may have not made the finnal blow but you did attack to presure the guy to bail. So, you should be still intitled to a KM.
|
Rainhailer
Gallente Einherjar Rising Cry Havoc.
|
Posted - 2009.04.08 14:07:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Daedalus II I can understand that you want killmails on someone you have shot at, but the problems with killmails on a self destruct is that you can't determine that he self destructed due to the damage.
What if someone is about to self destruct his ship for the insurance and some asshat flies by in an interceptor, fires a few shots and then get destroyed by a third part. Should the interceptor get a killmail on the self destruct for the minimal damage he inflicted (which still was the most damage)?
Yes, why not? If someone flew their ship into a belt to get destroyed by rats to get insurance and the ceptor came by there would be a killmail.
Originally by: Daedalus II
How long after someone takes damage does a self destruct incur a kill mail? you still get it after he docks and undocks again? After DT? After a week? A month? The problem is that the attacked ship can survive the attack and at a later time choose to self destruct by some whole other reason. Why should someone get a kill mail for that? How do you decide if it's at "a later time"?
Ever hear of a session change?
|
Daedalus II
|
Posted - 2009.04.08 14:12:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Janas VonVarloria Ok the way I see it is that the Kill Mail is just a record.... If the bastard SDs then show he did such. It's a cowards way out, but fine. If you shot at him before he blows his ship to oblivion you should still get a KB for credit. You may have not made the finnal blow but you did attack to presure the guy to bail. So, you should be still intitled to a KM.
So you're the knight in shining armor helping the poor ship blow up? You don't think he would avoid self destructing if he though he had an honest chance of surviving? Maybe you and your friends that blob the poor sod is the real bastards? Just saying there are views from both sides...
Also I refer to my previous post that this isn't technically possible to implement either, even if it should be implemented, which I think it should not.
|
Janas VonVarloria
|
Posted - 2009.04.08 14:23:00 -
[19]
Ok I see that, but I cry for no one in PVP, the choice is yours. Stand and fight or run. If you SD while ratting thats just sad and the only one to get the KM is you, but if you attack someone, yes you should get a record. I don't think SD should be a reason for the other guy not to get credit. You destructed for a reason. Live with it!
|
Marcus Gideon
Gallente Limited Liability Corp
|
Posted - 2009.04.08 14:39:00 -
[20]
/not signed
I have to agree with the other folks.
Regardless of why you self destructed... whether it was during combat, or to scam the insurance... you killed yourself. Unless they can pop your ship before the timer, then you delivered the final blow.
Pirates just complain because they love stroking their epeen with killmails. And they get cranky when they can't have their woo hoo email for all their "hard work".
Kill them faster! Learn to pirate, noob! |
|
Janas VonVarloria
|
Posted - 2009.04.08 14:48:00 -
[21]
Well I am a Anti-Pirate and work under CVA I only want a record
|
noldevin
|
Posted - 2009.04.08 14:53:00 -
[22]
I have to agree and say that if a ship self destructs in the same session as being shot at, the aggressor should earn a kill mail. Not being able to loot/salvage the wreck is enough "**** you" factor. I also think insurance should not be paid to self destructers, since that would essentially be insurance fraud.
|
Aracna Imahovich
Caldari There is a skull in my corp's logo i am hardcore
|
Posted - 2009.04.08 16:12:00 -
[23]
/Signed!
|
VoiceInTheDesert
Zebra Corp Circle-Of-Two
|
Posted - 2009.04.08 16:22:00 -
[24]
Also signed, but good luck. A popular sentiment is that if you can't kill the ship in under 2 min, you don't deserve the KM.
I personally disagree and would really like to see combat time increased (bigger tanks), but that's just me.
|
Raukho
Evoke. Ev0ke
|
Posted - 2009.04.08 16:53:00 -
[25]
agreed
|
Tuttle SVC
Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2009.04.08 16:58:00 -
[26]
Yes, please.
|
Lt Jester
Shade. Penumbra Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.04.08 17:11:00 -
[27]
Signed, Motherships self destructing to keep people from getting their loot is one thing, but it should still generate a killmail
|
humbleThC
The humble Crew Dara Cothrom
|
Posted - 2009.04.08 17:15:00 -
[28]
/signed
|
The Nova
Gallente Total Mayhem. Penumbra Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.04.08 17:17:00 -
[29]
/Signed
Do this or removed insurance payouts.
|
Lou Cypher
Infinite Improbability Inc Mostly Harmless
|
Posted - 2009.04.08 17:21:00 -
[30]
*signed .. and quit jacking the price of EvE every month
Shrike > Good Morning Northen Monekys, this is God speaking. |
|
Elisa Day
Shade. Penumbra Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.04.08 17:25:00 -
[31]
Even though this feature is requested approximately once per month and CCP has still not even commented on it, I'm still going to /sign it. You can even put a (self destructed) next to the victim's name!
Oh and get the mails in everyone's combat log who was on a kill please.
Oh and contents of ship hangars/fitted ships in ship hangars/corp hangars on killmails too please.
Oh and implants and SP loss on pod mails please.
It seems like the entire KM system needs some loving, in fact!
Fat chance of that...
|
Aragorn Angelus
Shade. Penumbra Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.04.08 17:28:00 -
[32]
/Signed
|
Veng3ance
Multiversal Enterprise Inc. Cry Havoc.
|
Posted - 2009.04.08 17:28:00 -
[33]
This seems unreasonable!!!
j/k /signed
|
Bob Mc
Shade. Penumbra Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.04.08 17:29:00 -
[34]
Signed
|
Wolf Soldier
Minmatar Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2009.04.08 17:47:00 -
[35]
signed
|
Gut Punch
Shade. Penumbra Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.04.08 18:06:00 -
[36]
/signed
|
Lerathe Vespaldia
Caldari The Babylon Project. Dead Mans Hand
|
Posted - 2009.04.08 18:22:00 -
[37]
/signed pew pew! |
Jiro Rans
|
Posted - 2009.04.08 18:28:00 -
[38]
Make it so!
|
EvilSpork
Invicta. Advocated Destruction
|
Posted - 2009.04.08 18:34:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Lt Jester Signed, Motherships self destructing to keep people from getting their loot is one thing, but it should still generate a killmail
this
|
Kel Nissa
|
Posted - 2009.04.08 18:47:00 -
[40]
dont forget to add remote repair on killmails ;o)
|
|
Nyphix
Amarr Shade. Penumbra Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.04.08 19:10:00 -
[41]
/Signed lol'd |
Halsoy
Gallente Shade. Penumbra Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.04.08 20:02:00 -
[42]
/signed
|
Karenzi
No Trademark
|
Posted - 2009.04.08 20:19:00 -
[43]
wake up ccp
/signed
|
The Nova
Gallente Total Mayhem. Penumbra Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.04.08 22:00:00 -
[44]
SOLAR Fleet dread gets tackled, we bring in enough to kill him.
21:55:05 Notify Naglfar belonging to KpyTeHb self-destructs.
gg.
|
MitchPT
Shade. Penumbra Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.04.08 22:07:00 -
[45]
/signed
|
Brutere
Stone Shadow Syndicate Sylph Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.04.08 22:07:00 -
[46]
I definately agree
/signed
|
K'orbin Hayato
Minmatar Meridian Dynamics Un-Natural Selection
|
Posted - 2009.04.08 22:14:00 -
[47]
Edited by: K''orbin Hayato on 08/04/2009 22:15:28 /signed
With one addition: a ship that self-destructs should be on it's own killmail with weapon: self-destruct
SD to prevent your attackers from getting your loot is abso-****ing-lutely valid, but SD to prevent a km from being generated is utter bull****. --
If you find yourself in a fair fight, somebody screwed up. |
BELLZYBUB
Minmatar Shade. Penumbra Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.04.08 22:15:00 -
[48]
o/ Brut..../signed
" SOUL COUNTER DELUXE" THE DEVILS ADVOCATE |
Brutore
Stone Shadow Syndicate Sylph Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.04.08 22:26:00 -
[49]
I agree... /signed
|
Becq Starforged
Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2009.04.09 01:02:00 -
[50]
Frankly, I don't see why killmails are bestowed only upon he who takes the last point of hull. Everyone who is involved in the kill (at least since the last session change) should have equal access. One way to do this might be to send kill details to a seperate server (to limit lag) and allow players to log on to obtain any killmails associated with their character from it.
Regarding the specific issue described above, I'd suggest at the very least changing the system so that killmails are sent to both the last player to score a hit (even if that hit didn't kill the ship) and the player inflicting the most damage. This would not only solve the specific problem brought up by Mistress Suffering, but would also take care of cases where a nearly-dead ship is finished off by a 'friendly' smartbomb, thus robbing the other side of killmails, issues involving NPC involvement, etc.
/support (and this might be best moved to Assembly Hall).
-- Becq Starforged
The Flame of Freedom Burns On! |
|
Tryptic Photon
Gallente Mad Bombers Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2009.04.09 01:59:00 -
[51]
/signed
|
Sobic
Mad Bombers Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2009.04.09 02:20:00 -
[52]
Totally agree!
/signed
|
Thiol
Mad Bombers Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2009.04.09 02:30:00 -
[53]
I agree completely and I would also support no insurance payout for ships that self-destruct.
|
DrJ Zoidberg
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises Sc0rched Earth
|
Posted - 2009.04.09 03:33:00 -
[54]
/signed
|
SilverBolt
|
Posted - 2009.04.09 03:56:00 -
[55]
Edited by: SilverBolt on 09/04/2009 03:56:31 Maybe even the inability to self destruct while engaged in combat? Simply blocking self destructs when aggressed wouldn't really work as most people who self destruct are most likely not aggressed anyway..
Dunno, the way I see it is for an easier fix simply block self destruct when in combat?
Idiot in a capital gets himself off station and gets tackled, is now in combat and is unable to self destruct - idiot in capital gets owned in the face, wishes he had waited on someone to scout the station / assist him.
|
Sapphrine
Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2009.04.09 11:01:00 -
[56]
i'd like to see either what mistress suggests or for self destruct to nullify insurance payout. The second option would make the last '**** you' valid but actually at a cost to the person going down.
|
Sapphrine
Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2009.04.09 11:03:00 -
[57]
lets not muddy the issue of everyone getting the km with the issue at hand.
|
ninjaholic
Gallente Interstellar Armaments Free Trade Zone.
|
Posted - 2009.04.09 11:13:00 -
[58]
Then what's the point of the self-destruct?
>>> SUPPORT EVE's OWN IN-GAME FIGHT RECORD TOOL! <<<
|
Scilent Enigma
Minmatar Total Mayhem. Penumbra Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.04.09 12:24:00 -
[59]
I agree, this is a problem that shouldn't even have to have arisen in the first place. Self-destructing a ship while under attack shouldn't be a mechanic for depriving the attackers of a KM.
|
Navigaytion
|
Posted - 2009.04.09 13:05:00 -
[60]
/signed
|
|
Mistress Suffering
Einherjar Rising Cry Havoc.
|
Posted - 2009.04.09 16:13:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Sapphrine i'd like to see either what mistress suggests or for self destruct to nullify insurance payout. The second option would make the last '**** you' valid but actually at a cost to the person going down.
I think that would be an inferior solution based on two things:
1. I'm a big fan of killmail records as the permanent record of EVE combat activity. I'd rather be better about information sharing, than to leave loopholes where it can be hidden for an ISK cost.
2. People will still self-destruct ships to generate ISK based on cheap construction (insurance fraud). No reason to force them to get shot just to make that happen.
Now if you want to do better killmail generation _and_ nuke insurance payout for self-destruct I'm fine with that. But I think its the less important issue.
|
Rhaegor Stormborn
H A V O C Minor Threat.
|
Posted - 2009.04.10 03:57:00 -
[62]
/signed
|
Dave Tehsulei
Atomic Battle Penguins The Darwin Award Foundation
|
Posted - 2009.04.10 04:31:00 -
[63]
/signed
-------
Forum | Website |
Hedliner
Gallente Total Mayhem.
|
Posted - 2009.04.10 08:20:00 -
[64]
/signed
|
LethalTopgun
Total Mayhem.
|
Posted - 2009.04.11 01:46:00 -
[65]
/Signed because its the right thing to do lose the loot get the km also noting the SD would be cool shows all the pussies
|
Santiago Fahahrri
Galactic Geographic
|
Posted - 2009.04.11 02:12:00 -
[66]
No support for whining killmail counters. ~ Santiago Fahahrri Galactic Geographic |
AtheistOfDoom
Amarr The Athiest Syndicate Advocated Destruction
|
Posted - 2009.04.11 04:20:00 -
[67]
/signed And then, he killed the dog... |
Karenzi
No Trademark
|
Posted - 2009.04.12 08:20:00 -
[68]
if you've read this and havent signed it, you should be shot.
|
Hellown
Einherjar Rising Cry Havoc.
|
Posted - 2009.04.12 12:26:00 -
[69]
/Signed
Oh god, yes. Leave the modules all die thing but give us a damn KM
|
Nnamuachs
Caldari Kiith Paktu Veneratio Venator Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.04.12 14:04:00 -
[70]
What if i've read this and don't think it should be signed? if anything self destruct could be extended due to the newer hp buffs that make fights longer, but i still believe the attackers should "not" recieve the killmail because that is the most valuable prize to lose.
|
|
Aldeb Haraz
Price of Progress
|
Posted - 2009.04.12 15:34:00 -
[71]
Killmails should be generated 100% of the time for every loss that occurs. Better yet, send a copy to every corporation on the mail, not just the final blow.
This has been broken for a long time. Heat just makes it more broken.
|
Ugleb
Minmatar Kinda'Shujaa
|
Posted - 2009.04.12 18:36:00 -
[72]
Agreed with the OP, it's a poor omission that only serves to spite the victor.
Contact the Sarz'na Khumatari |
Lee Dalton
Amarr THE FINAL STAND
|
Posted - 2009.04.12 20:02:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Elisa Day Even though this feature is requested approximately once per month and CCP has still not even commented on it, I'm still going to /sign it. You can even put a (self destructed) next to the victim's name!
Oh and get the mails in everyone's combat log who was on a kill please.
Oh and implants and SP loss on pod mails please.
It seems like the entire KM system needs some loving, in fact!
Fat chance of that...
/Signed. *** It doesn't matter how many killmails you have. You're only as good as your last fight. |
Zedd Wormstrum
|
Posted - 2009.04.13 02:46:00 -
[74]
/signed
|
Mistress Suffering
Einherjar Rising Cry Havoc.
|
Posted - 2009.04.14 16:49:00 -
[75]
This forum scrolls amazingly fast. Seems unlikely CCP ever dredges much here at all.
|
Cassini Huygens
|
Posted - 2009.04.14 17:47:00 -
[76]
I would like to see a KM generated for self-destructs during combat. I would also like to receive a KM for any ship I have had a shot at, regardless of whether or not I got the final blow.
|
Cal Anoth
|
Posted - 2009.04.14 22:18:00 -
[77]
I'm can make an argument on either side of this.
My main question is... why are people who are very outspoken/signing off on this, from alliances that use this tactic? Hello Cry Havoc, hello Sons of tangra, hello several others for whom I've been present for a self destruct once the loss was obviously going to happen
|
Xelios
Minmatar Broski Enterprises Avarice.
|
Posted - 2009.04.15 00:36:00 -
[78]
/signed
I can't imagine it being that hard to implement either, just have it send the KM to the last person to hit before the self destruct.
|
mr ioso
Minerva Co.
|
Posted - 2009.04.15 00:43:00 -
[79]
About time. _________________
Jag fSrdas naken. |
Mistress Suffering
Einherjar Rising Cry Havoc.
|
Posted - 2009.04.15 01:12:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Cal Anoth I'm can make an argument on either side of this.
My main question is... why are people who are very outspoken/signing off on this, from alliances that use this tactic? Hello Cry Havoc, hello Sons of tangra, hello several others for whom I've been present for a self destruct once the loss was obviously going to happen
Sorry, your claim is simply false. Welcome to the internet of no accountability.
But hey, that's ok. I'd 100% be happy to know that anyone self-destructing in my alliance would generate a lossmail. Bring it on :)
|
|
Nnamuachs
Caldari Kiith Paktu Veneratio Venator Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.04.15 01:55:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Mistress Suffering This forum scrolls amazingly fast. Seems unlikely CCP ever dredges much here at all.
if they did, 75% of the posts would've been removed by now for breaking the forum rules for this section.
|
Mystafyre
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
|
Posted - 2009.04.16 23:02:00 -
[82]
/Signed
|
Teras Menac
Gallente Action Inc.
|
Posted - 2009.04.16 23:26:00 -
[83]
/signed
and please send killmails to everyone on the killmail also. It's so irritating to do 60% of the damage and have the guy in the Punisher who showed up at the last minute to do 25 damage and get the Kill Mail.
|
Nemtar Nataal
Demonic Retribution Minor Threat.
|
Posted - 2009.04.17 09:14:00 -
[84]
Edited by: Nemtar Nataal on 17/04/2009 09:14:25 I'm also a big fan of killmails as the primorty way of loggin EVE engagements, and as i fly in roaming gangs i would say for the most part im in the "I want the FREEKING killmail league" - however i think you guys are making it to black and white.
Killmails does have a application in the game. Self destructing does have a application in the game.
I would put the to features on the same level in the game - i want both features to be left in and i done belive that one feature superceeds the other in this case.
We have heard a lot of arguments as to why we need killmails but not a lot of arguments as to why we need self destructing - frankly i find this wird as IMO self destructing have just as much of a importance in the game as killmails (maybe even more).
So killmails well we only really use them for extending our EPEN its the LOOK WE DIT BETHER THEN THE OTHER GUYS feature but in tearms or pure game mechanics the feature doesnt really affect the game...
At the same time the Self Destructing feature playes a importnat role in the game - if you get stuck in any shape or form (usually to you bieng a tart and doing something stupid) you can self destruct and get back to base. So if you get stuck in a mission, wormhole, belt (not sure if its posible anymore), Cosmic Anomely you can get out with out your ship. This are all mission NPC based fails - but no one have mentioned that you get locked down for a few hours in some boubles while people are pounding away at you and cant make **** of a diffrence at all. People can pritty much hold you for ever with the new types of features we have - but they cant neceserely kill you. HAving to sit around for a few hours just waiting for some people to get there asses together and kill you come one - you are eventually goign to need the self destructing feature.
So a fair compromise and it have been suggested b4 would be diffrent self destructing times based on ship mass. If you cant kill a BS in lets say 5 minutes you dont deserve a killmail. If you cant kill a capital in 10 minutes you dont deserve a killmail. If you cant kill a super cap in 20 or 30 minutes you dont deserve a killmail.
This is a game and its suppose to be fun for all parties involved, and having to hang around to indulge your obsession of killmails for 1 hours or more is just not a viable option in a game. So if you are going to kill stuff you should at the very least bring ships enough to have a change of killing the kind of ships you are looking at engaging. IMO its only fair that a pilote can self destruct if you bring so few ships that you only barely can kill him - but you can hold him for ever. Tbh i would say its not killmails or self destructing feature thats the problem but the tools we have for locking down ships have become to easy to use and that shows...
|
TuRtLe HeAd
KrayZ Inc Arcane Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.04.17 09:48:00 -
[85]
Edited by: TuRtLe HeAd on 17/04/2009 09:49:44 Yes my alliance lost a mother ship. and self destructed it to prevent the modules and killmail going to the victors.. Now we got that out the way....
Instead of requesting something like this..
Why not simply Disable Self destruct While in combat. Like Jump gate aggro timers..... Makes far more sense.
I know id much rather have the satisfaction of knowing we blew the ship up and got the kill mail , than it self destructed and we got the killmail by default. |
Heptameron
Gallente Octavian Vanguard RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.04.17 14:05:00 -
[86]
Edited by: Heptameron on 17/04/2009 14:07:04 wow.... just f***** wow at some of the r***rded comments in here. How the hell is SD'ing as important as providing evidence of a kill?
SD'ing is ok under certain conditions but certainly not in combat. If you're stupid enough to get caught then bend over and take it like a man.
As for the 'everyone should get a killmail' rofl!!!... anyone want an extra portion of lag for supper?
And the dude who must be a supah coder of some sort and suggests this can't be developed, well my friend take head out of rear and try again. How about something similar scrams/bubs etc where if you are in combat it doesn't allow you to SD? This allows the normal use of it under non combat conditions but stops the cowards way out of denying your enemy their trophie(s).
(If anyone already suggested this apologies... didn't read half the replies the first few crappy ones got my typing fingers a twitchin)
rofl ninja edit! just read one up and there's a smart reply :p
|
McKinlay
KIA Corp KIA Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.04.17 17:33:00 -
[87]
/signed
|
Raneru
Euphoria Released Force Of Evil
|
Posted - 2009.04.17 19:15:00 -
[88]
/signed
If you get caught fair and square, accept the consequences.
|
maya ibuki2
THORN Syndicate Mostly Harmless
|
Posted - 2009.04.18 03:54:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Lou Cypher *signed .. and quit jacking the price of EvE every month
QFT if a ship is going down in combat and sd's it should generate a km imo. just because the pilot is to ****** to show soem decorum doesnt mean everyone who took the time to find him and kill him should suffer :P
so yeah....supported, on both counts maya ibuki2-currently thorn alliance pvper, proud member of the 54th knights templar and genral shooty type |
The Nova
Gallente Total Mayhem. Cry Havoc.
|
Posted - 2009.04.21 14:52:00 -
[90]
So im hanging around in low sec. INVT tackle a moros off a station.
Moros pilot in local [14:46:35] Tyler > you can get ransom or self destruct
He decides he doesn't wana pay the ransom.
14:46:14 Notify Tyler has initiated self-destruct of their Moros, it will explode in 120 seconds. 14:48:14 Notify Moros belonging to Tyler self-destructs.
Just saving himself some killboard shame, gg.
|
|
Alessia Suvayarin
Invicta. Advocated Destruction
|
Posted - 2009.04.21 15:36:00 -
[91]
/signed
A self-destruct should generate a killmail/lossmail and also nullify any insurance on the ship.
|
Jammela Anna
Shade.
|
Posted - 2009.04.21 18:53:00 -
[92]
/signed
|
The Nova
Gallente Total Mayhem. Cry Havoc.
|
Posted - 2009.04.29 16:24:00 -
[93]
Another day, another carrier.
16:20:25 Notify Chimera belonging to Wrathraker self-destructs.
GG on taking the easy way out. Fix this ccp ?
|
Mangold
Einherjar Rising Cry Havoc.
|
Posted - 2009.04.29 16:27:00 -
[94]
I am amazed that this hasnt been fixed yet.
|
Harrana
Total Mayhem. Cry Havoc.
|
Posted - 2009.04.29 16:28:00 -
[95]
Don't give us the loot, but at least a killmail.
/signed ---------- This space is for rent. That makes me a rent boy. Contact me for details. |
Halsoy
Gallente Shade. Cry Havoc.
|
Posted - 2009.04.29 16:31:00 -
[96]
/me singed, please get this sorted...
|
Kel Solaar
Einherjar Rising
|
Posted - 2009.04.29 16:32:00 -
[97]
/Signed
|
Lucas Avidius
Einherjar Rising Cry Havoc.
|
Posted - 2009.04.29 16:33:00 -
[98]
Fix this.
Make it so that an NPC named "Self Destruct Device" Gets final blow and does damage equivalent to the HP remaining on the ship when the self destruct goes through.
Nullify insurance payouts for it as well, as no insurance company would pay you for something you destroyed yourself.
|
PentaBuksus
Gallente Einherjar Rising Cry Havoc.
|
Posted - 2009.04.29 16:40:00 -
[99]
/signed
|
H Lecter
Gallente The Black Rabbits Academy The Gurlstas Associates
|
Posted - 2009.04.29 16:48:00 -
[100]
Yes, I'm a killmail ***** - at least when the vicitim is not going to pay me.
Now that we got that out of our way - I fully support the generation of a killmail upon self destruct.
However, I see no reason to deny aggressed pilots the chance of a SD. If you get caught in a battleship by an interceptor pilot and you have no chance to hit him as much as he has no chance to kill you, there must be a way out of the situation.
Insurance payouts for SD are kind of strange and make ransoming and thus earning a living on piracy harder.
Please resize your signature to the maximum allowed resolution of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. -Weatherman |
|
Kassa Daito
Survey Group 1 Infused Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.04.29 16:54:00 -
[101]
Edited by: Kassa Daito on 29/04/2009 16:56:09 A) Everyone stop whining that you didn't get your text file saying "I destroyed X's ship" when he selfdestructs. You didn't destroy X's ship, he popped it himself. If you kill his ship, you get mail saying you killed the ship. If he kills the ship, he gets mail saying he killed the ship... complicated concept, isn't it?
B) Regarding no insurance for self-destructed ships: I totally agree with this one. Pend needs new management for their pod ship insurance operations because current management is criminally negligent. ***************
The above comments are generally my own opinions and do not necessarily represent those of my corporation or alliance. |
The Nova
Gallente Total Mayhem. Cry Havoc.
|
Posted - 2009.05.01 01:34:00 -
[102]
Edited by: The Nova on 01/05/2009 01:34:17 Edited by: The Nova on 01/05/2009 01:34:04
Originally by: Kassa Daito Edited by: Kassa Daito on 29/04/2009 16:56:09 A) Everyone stop whining that you didn't get your text file saying "I destroyed X's ship" when he selfdestructs. You didn't destroy X's ship, he popped it himself. If you kill his ship, you get mail saying you killed the ship. If he kills the ship, he gets mail saying he killed the ship... complicated concept, isn't it?
Thats quite sad if you actually believe the crap your talking.
Being able to hide your death cause you don't want negative kill stats is quite pathetic. You got caught by a hostile and you died, it should be quite simple. If you can't hack it, stay in high sec.
|
Lord Makk
Trust Doesn't Rust Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2009.05.04 11:08:00 -
[103]
/signing.
There should be no easy way out of shame in eve ;) Cold harsh world & all that..
|
Janas VonVarloria
|
Posted - 2009.05.04 11:42:00 -
[104]
Ok, returning to this string to refresh the havoc and whats up Lord Makk I'll be hunting you later :). Anyway, it seems we are starting to split this into 2 discussions now, One discussion about everyone getting a KM for everyone who shot at a target and the second about whether anyone should get a KM besides the guy who takes the wimpy way out because he has too much pride to be taken out by the likes of you. Maybe we should split this into 2 discussions since they are both valid points? I still stand by everyone who pops someone is entitled to a KM instead of resorting to "Who got the KM?" in the chats. As for SD, I am seeing to many people SD not just for pride but for money reasons as well. I don't really like SD, but if I had a say I think that if your shot at while you SD the attacker should get some record of pressing you into your cowards decision. There's always a way to cancel the SD, so to think once you do it, it's done is not a way out and "come on" killing people for their loot help make the New Eden Economy go round.
|
Fille Balle
TachyonTubbies Dark Taboo
|
Posted - 2009.05.04 15:42:00 -
[105]
I'm very opposed to this. KM for a self destruct? That ruins the whole point of self destructing your ship: denying your opponent any tactical input on how your ship was fitted.
I say, remove the killmails! No more whining about selfdestructs, no more bragging about killing x
|
Dr Yukazuma
|
Posted - 2009.06.09 14:12:00 -
[106]
Personally I don't care for KM's, a loss is a loss.. a kill's a kill, you get the loot you don't I don't really care either way.
As for the insurance being paid on Self-Destruct.. that's a no-go at this station. If you SD, you should get no Insurance.. It should be like auto insurance.. when you crash your car headlong into a telephone poll, your insurance company doesn't pay for the car... you SD a ship, your not going to get paid. |
Rajere
No Trademark
|
Posted - 2009.06.10 02:10:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Fille Balle I'm very opposed to this. KM for a self destruct? That ruins the whole point of self destructing your ship: denying your opponent any tactical input on how your ship was fitted.
lol that's quite a stretch. The point of SDing while you're going down is that it's a last "#@$! you" in that you deny your attackers from getting your loot. killmail/lossmail should absolutely be generated for self-destructs, this should have been fixed years ago.
There's no need to mess with insurance payouts for SD, and you can't prevent people from initiating SD just because they are in combat. SD exists as a last ditch fail safe "escape" option, it allows you to sacrifice your ship/pod and in exchange you return to base/regain control of your character. Basically, it's an in game alternative mechanism to simply "logging off" and it's a necessary evil to limit griefing potential.
There are corps out there full of evil griefers who do things like play "pod soccer" with pilots after destroying their ship. Another example, after catching someone who's simply bouncing safe spots ie being annoying, the griefers will have a HIC leave his bubble on, web the pod, then set "keep at range" to 500m and then go AFK, sometimes for hours at a time, simply to spite you. Without the ability to initiate SD in combat, you'd be pretty much stuck, webbed inside a bubble, out in a safe spot several AU from the nearest gate. Even if you log off, you have to hope they go ahead and finish off your pod in the 15mins your pod sits there next to him, due to aggression. Otherwise you're stuck waiting until they decide to leave, before you can log back in and successfully get your pod out. |
Hariya
|
Posted - 2009.06.10 15:40:00 -
[108]
I agree with the OP, the killmails should be removed entirely from the game. |
Wesley Baird
D00M. Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2009.06.10 16:28:00 -
[109]
Perhaps if the devs missioned less and pvp'd more stupid things like this would be fixed. Let the SD destroy the mods, but still generate a mail.
Stop level 4's and start pew-pew!
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 :: [one page] |