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Reputation as a trader

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Dira Neccesitas	Posted - 2009.04.08 19:20:00 - [1] Edited by: Dira Neccesitas on 08/04/2009 19:20:22 Hi folks, I'd like to get your thoughts on the pros and cons of the anonymity (as I see it, I could be totally wrong) of the trading and manufacturing game in EVE. Im a new character, I generally play EVE for a few months, then quit for a few, then start up anew again. I have 5 or 6 inactive accounts with characters from 3 to 8m SP. I have some experience stretching over a few years is what I'm saying. I can only compare EVE to SWG, which I've played continually since 2004. In that game I've ran several successful businesses, and the key is product quality and trader reputation. Once you get those two paths to converge you're practically unstoppable. Whats the equivalent in EVE, is there one? The quality issue is a non-factor as all manufactured items are identical, you cant even differentiate the maker as their name cannot appear on the product. For example, in SWG a player would search by my brandname for a product (almost) regardless of the price, and in EVE a player searches by the lowest price and the location. This doesnt leave a lot of room for someone to make a reputation for themselves as a manufacturer or a trader, or am I missing something? In EVE, are us traders just a nameless, faceless supplier to the market or can we hope to be known by our name as a reputable supplier? I like trading in EVE and am fairly good at it, but I sometimes wish for more recognition. I enjoy the interaction with customers in SWG, the feeling of being needed and of providing a service. Is this something that can happen in EVE with time? I see it nowadays with capital components and ships, and in the past I saw it with T2 suppliers. However, I wont be in a position to be a capital supplier for a long time, if ever. Maybe Im being sentimental in a game that doesnt cater for that style? Any thoughts? Or should I shut up and go back to SWG? :)
Hexxx Minmatar	Posted - 2009.04.08 19:26:00 - [2] Reputation is King. I'll give you an example... Please, everyone who replies try to put an ISK amount on what worth you believe Chibbra's reputation is? EBANK - Chairman of the Board \| www.eve-bank.net
Ariel Amitey	Posted - 2009.04.08 19:39:00 - [3] Originally by: Hexxx Please, everyone who replies try to put an ISK amount on what worth you believe Chibbra's reputation is? Sorry, who?
Dzil Caldari Elamous Industries	Posted - 2009.04.08 19:41:00 - [4] Originally by: Hexxx Reputation is King. I'll give you an example... Please, everyone who replies try to put an ISK amount on what worth you believe Chibbra's reputation is? As in, what's the most someone might trust him with, that he could sell out and run with? My guess is somewhere around 400 billion isk. As in, how much can he stand to make by simply continuing to let the golden goose lay eggs? Hard to say. I'm guessing an avg of a bill a week, maybe much more depending on demand. Reputation is everything, as there really isn't much to be said about product quality. A drake is a drake is a drake. Good service can get you a ways, but that sort of just loops back into reputation.
Kevin Kenobi	Posted - 2009.04.08 19:50:00 - [5] Originally by: Hexxx Reputation is King. I'll give you an example... Please, everyone who replies try to put an ISK amount on what worth you believe Chibbra's reputation is? Why, is Chibbra selling his character?
Bonhomme Carnaval	Posted - 2009.04.08 20:04:00 - [6] Originally by: Hexxx Reputation is King. I'll give you an example... Please, everyone who replies try to put an ISK amount on what worth you believe Chibbra's reputation is? I'm pretty sure Chribba wouldn't scam for 100 billions and I barely know him. I'd trust him with a quite a bit of my ISK easily, I guess (harder in my case since that's only around 5 billions). I agree that reputation is a valuable asset in Eve. Of course, the most important thing to notice in this discussion is that here on the forums, there's really no way of telling when you've stopped reading someone's post and started the sig.
720	Posted - 2009.04.08 20:21:00 - [7] Originally by: Hexxx Reputation is King. I'll give you an example... Please, everyone who replies try to put an ISK amount on what worth you believe Chibbra's reputation is? While I think you point is correct, and that reputation can have immense value associated with it, I think that doesn't answer the question the OP asks. When it comes to the standard activities the OP is correct. There isn't a way to differentiate yourself as different from any other module or ship manufacture per se, however there are ways to build and profit from reputation that are non-standard. Some examples might be the business of setting up high sec POSse (which require standings) like VonHeise or selling pre-researched BPOs. Actually this link gives a good idea of business to emulate that are more identity/reputation based, though there are many others.
Dira Neccesitas	Posted - 2009.04.08 20:31:00 - [8] Chribba is a good example IMO, but not a great one in this context (again Im a newb and I could be wrong). Its my understanding that his reputation is for honesty in dealings that are sort of ancillary to the market, rather than directly in it? I.e Escrow services, out of game databases, file hosting, and that sort of thing? There are other names that I would trust, but again they are involved in the secondary market. My question, which was rambling I know, was more to do with the reputation as a manufacturer and trader using the ingame market. Given that there is no quality differentiation between items and there is no identification of the person selling said item (until its bought), how then do you gain a reputation by dealing directly in the market? I dont think you can, seeing as you are essentially just a faceless trader? It would seem you need to be a large scale manufacturer, supplying a corp? And then what variables have you got to play with? Price and delivery time? I understand EVE is known as a harsh place, so does it follow that a good reputation is based simply on not scamming? I'm coming from a different perspective where you would deal directly with a customer, have a shopfront, and increase your sales as a result of those factors. I think I'm asking for too much, the anonymity of supplying a market seems to be a fundamental thing in EVE.
Dira Neccesitas	Posted - 2009.04.08 20:38:00 - [9] Thanks for the link 720, I'll enjoy taking the time to read through that list. Maybe I was getting ahead of myself and I need to make a more long term plan to build a business. Im in it for the interaction not just the ISK.
HawkBlade Minmatar The Higher Standard Virtue of Selfishness	Posted - 2009.04.08 20:39:00 - [10] Originally by: Dira Neccesitas I understand EVE is known as a harsh place, so does it follow that a good reputation is based simply on not scamming? Rep is not solely based upon this, no. But not scamming is first and foremost above any other factor(s). No exception.
Sola Veritas Minmatar Galactic Master Business academy	Posted - 2009.04.08 20:58:00 - [11] Edited by: Sola Veritas on 08/04/2009 20:59:19 I think you have a choice, as a trader or manufacturer (and if you're a manufacturer you are, IMO, just a trader with an extra step) to be anonymous or not, and there are pros and cons to both. It depends on what you want in the game and what kind of service you provide. While items in EVE may be identical, services are not. People will pick a reputed, trusted service to do business with 9 times out of 10 over the alternative. And if you want to be anything more than a station-trading alt, it's likely some component of your business will have a service aspect to it (direct delivery, investment, suppliers, etc.). Thus, cultivating a reputation allows you to build a client base which allows you to circumvent the market games and have a constant outlet. This is done all the time in EVE, and one's creativity is the only real boundary to what can and can't be done. It takes more effort, but potentially has more reward. Your wish to be "known" is be no means sentimental. It in fact might be very good business sense.
YouGotRipped Ewigkeit	Posted - 2009.04.08 21:29:00 - [12] I wouldn't worry too much about reputation if I were you, unless you want to scam at some point. Black Sun Empire
Xeoniya	Posted - 2009.04.08 21:59:00 - [13] Lady of Wrath's One Stop might be a good example (at least if she weren't selling off most of it) of using/how to use reputation.
Jimnoo	Posted - 2009.04.08 22:44:00 - [14] Like everything in EVE, I think the single shard model has a great effect. I don't know much about SWG, but I presume it is sharded (or very small). In a small pond it's is easier to make a reputation. That's a lot harder in EVE, at least for most people ;) Reputation in EVE is very valuable to a few people, but not very important to most. Hexxx's example, doesn't quite work, I think, because Chribba is so atypical. An opposing thought experiment would be to count the characters that the community would say have 'reputation'. If that's only a few dozen people, then maybe reputation isn't something that many players gain from.
Pang Grohl Gallente Sudo Corp	Posted - 2009.04.09 00:16:00 - [15] In order to trade on reputation you need to move outside of the Market Screen to services that can only be provided by players. If you want to make a name as a manufacturer, you need to offer your services in a way that can't be facilitated by the Market Screen. *** Si non adjuvas, noces (If you're not helping, you're hurting)
Lana Torrin Minmatar Republic Military Skool	Posted - 2009.04.09 00:40:00 - [16] Whatever happened to the shopfront that I remember reading about a long time ago? They would have been a great way to put an identity on to the products you are selling.. I'm guessing ambulation (or whatever they are calling it now) will go a long way to help this too.
Bellator Militaris Caldari Mass Produced Venturi Starea	Posted - 2009.04.09 05:10:00 - [17] A pilot is as good as how well he/she does. As far as reputation goes, there are so many that sell, who really keep track? I guess if you deal in Capital Ships Titans and Motherships and you burn people, well a bounty will go out on your head. But the old addage, buy low sell high goes for eve too.
HawkBlade Minmatar The Higher Standard Virtue of Selfishness	Posted - 2009.04.09 05:19:00 - [18] Originally by: Lana Torrin I'm guessing ambulation (or whatever they are calling it now) will go a long way to help this too. I've often said this lately, in game, but I think Ambulation was quietly escorted to a small storage room... ... and snuffed.
Lee Suping	Posted - 2009.04.09 09:19:00 - [19] Originally by: HawkBlade Originally by: Lana Torrin I'm guessing ambulation ... snuffed. Just curious, what the hell would anyone do inside a station that can't already be done inside a station now? I'm trying to figure out what ambulation would mean for gameplay.
Blue Dice Gallente Kinley and Dice Technologies	Posted - 2009.04.09 09:49:00 - [20] Originally by: Hexxx Reputation is King. I'll give you an example... Please, everyone who replies try to put an ISK amount on what worth you believe Chibbra's reputation is? While I agree that Chribbas name is worth billions of ISK, I have at the same time to look at how that reputation was built. And we come to the conclusion that this reputation was built (at least 95% of it) outside of the actual game. I can fully understand the OP's reasoning, and would often myself wish taht oyu could make yourself a reputation on the market in terms of quality/service etc. Unfortunatly this is limited to a very few services and is completely (allmost completely) impossible in terms of T1 manufacturing and trade. If you can make yourself a name there, then only one known by your competitors, not by your customers. To answer the OP: There probably never will be an actual quality of product in EvE in the near future (2 or 3 years). So if you want to make yourself a name you have to do so out of game, with specific services.
Dzil Caldari Elamous Industries	Posted - 2009.04.09 14:20:00 - [21] Originally by: Dira Neccesitas My question, which was rambling I know, was more to do with the reputation as a manufacturer and trader using the ingame market. Given that there is no quality differentiation between items and there is no identification of the person selling said item (until its bought), how then do you gain a reputation by dealing directly in the market? I dont think you can, seeing as you are essentially just a faceless trader? Aye, there's the rub. The in game market doesn't list your name until after making a purchase, and even then doesn't offer a choice in your purchasing supplier (in game mechanics will force you to trade with the best offer in your station). In that scope, quality and reputation are pretty meaningless. But outside of that market, a lot of isk changes hands too. It's here that reputation and quality become more important, because in game mechanics don't hold your hand anymore. When we start talking about loans, collateral, and services that aren't protected by game mechanics, then you start to prove yourself trustworthy through repeated integrity. And that good name, in turn, buys you future bids. So it comes to this - if the idea of creating a reputable brand in EVE appeals to you, I think you have to move into the secondary market.

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