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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Miilla
Hulkageddon Orphanage
287
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Posted - 2012.05.03 22:35:00 -
[91] - Quote
We need wardecs to shoot ships in Eve?
Ok miners :) wardecs it is :)
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
553
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Posted - 2012.05.03 22:40:00 -
[92] - Quote
Tippia wrote:NatteFrost85 wrote:all i see is finaly a step in the right direction to remove the 1-5 man corps who has no balls and only wardecs defencless indy/pve corps. They won't be affected in the slightest, since those defenceless targets will be just as defenceless after the change and will, if anything, be even more attractive targets since they'll be much cheaper and easier to attack. Now, normally, I'd say that a corp that is defenceless should be nuked into oblivion simply because they've made the bad choice of setting themselves up for a lose/lose situation GÇö being defenceless means they're not actually ready to have a corp to begin with. However, this change opens up a new avenue for them: they can congregate in a massive decshielding alliance (hell, I'll offer my services just to profit from/break the system again, like I did with decshedding) and that means that the system is inherently broken right out the gate, in pretty much exactly the same way as it was broken before GÇö the kind of breakage the change was intended to fix. It also means that the entire merc marketplace that was rolled out to great fanfares instantly becomes meaningless: anyone large enough to be able to afford mercs that can actually make a difference will already be large enough not to be a viable target for attacks (and will most likely be large enough that they don't need mercs). Anyone small enough to need mercs will not be able to afford enough to fight even a single war, and will most certainly not be able to pay enough for the sheer number of decs that they will receive just because they're such an easy target of opportunity. This is starting to sound like the whole "sov holding alliance" thing that happens in nullsec.
Or the "tech & supercaps" thing people discuss all the time as tech prices get jacked up more and more Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd |
Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
714
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Posted - 2012.05.03 22:40:00 -
[93] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Now, normally, I'd say that a corp that is defenceless should be nuked into oblivion simply because they've made the bad choice of setting themselves up for a lose/lose situation GÇö being defenceless means they're not actually ready to have a corp to begin with. However, this change opens up a new avenue for them: they can congregate in a massive decshielding alliance (hell, I'll offer my services just to profit from/break the system again, like I did with decshedding) and that means that the system is inherently broken right out the gate, in pretty much exactly the same way as it was broken before GÇö the kind of breakage the change was intended to fix. This ^
...and I agree that if they all the "defenseless" corps band together for protection that is fine. That's what they should be doing anyway... though I'd also argue that a defenseless alliance is just as dec-able and will be deced straight away... that's all normal and fine. It's the alt padding that's a problem. The bottom line is you can't have a corp and be defenseless. Anyone who predicated their existence on highsec invulnerability based themselves on a broken mechanic. If there's going to be an actual fix to the dec system reality is going to drop kick you in the sack, and I think there's a few isk to be made on that reality check. I just hope the dec change is actually a fix and not one that allows shielding by a different method. If you want a dec shield it should exist... it's called hiring or aligning with a PvP corp. That should be your only defense... not skirting war altogether.
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
554
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Posted - 2012.05.03 22:55:00 -
[94] - Quote
Gogela wrote:...and I agree that if they all the "defenseless" corps band together for protection that is fine. That's what they should be doing anyway... though I'd also argue that a defenseless alliance is just as dec-able and will be deced straight away... that's all normal and fine. It's the alt padding that's a problem. The bottom line is you can't have a corp and be defenseless. Anyone who predicated their existence on highsec invulnerability based themselves on a broken mechanic. If there's going to be an actual fix to the dec system reality is going to drop kick you in the sack, and I think there's a few isk to be made on that reality check. I just hope the dec change is actually a fix and not one that allows shielding by a different method. If you want a dec shield it should exist... it's called hiring or aligning with a PvP corp. That should be your only defense... not skirting war altogether. Well I guess they don't want to blob.
But really, it's because their NPC corp alt taxes go to pay CONCORD, the best PVPers around.
Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd |
Akirei Scytale
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1300
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Posted - 2012.05.03 22:58:00 -
[95] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote: But really, it's because their NPC corp alt taxes go to pay CONCORD, the best PVPers around.
Seriously. Serpentis is pretty good too. TEST Alliance BEST Alliance |
Xorv
Questionable Acquisitions
286
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Posted - 2012.05.03 23:05:00 -
[96] - Quote
Twulf wrote: EVE is a hybrd Sandbox game Through and Through. If it was a true Sandbox game then any play style would be valid. Even solo play would be a valid option. Even in a Multiplayer game, if it is a Sandbox, solo play would be valid.
I don't think Tippia is saying you shouldn't be able to solo. Only that while playing a Sandbox MMO, you're free to try to do what you want, other players who are also free to try what they want and might mess up what you want to do. A real Sandbox isn't 1000s of players each with their own little box of sand to do with as they wish, it's 1000s of players all in one box playing with the same sand together. They can be solo, but they still have to deal with the 1000s of others in the same box.
As to what EVE is, CCP describe it as a Sandbox, not a hybrid. Whether they have delivered a real Sandbox is another question.
In regards to the OP, there was a dev post somewhere saying the Wardec system on test is the old system and they have something new in the works. |
Fishmaskle
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
29
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Posted - 2012.05.03 23:19:00 -
[97] - Quote
I don't think I have seen a thread by the OP that doesn't start with a whine followed by calling people that don't see his point of view as perfect, stupid/idiots.
Though they do provide a bit of entertainment on the slow end of a workday... If I helped you out, Technical Issue,-áenemy gank, popped your poor fit,-áhit the "Like" button. |
Fannie Maes
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
228
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Posted - 2012.05.03 23:23:00 -
[98] - Quote
Xorv wrote:Twulf wrote: EVE is a hybrd Sandbox game Through and Through. If it was a true Sandbox game then any play style would be valid. Even solo play would be a valid option. Even in a Multiplayer game, if it is a Sandbox, solo play would be valid.
I don't think Tippia is saying you shouldn't be able to solo. Only that while playing a Sandbox MMO, you're free to try to do what you want, other players who are also free to try what they want and might mess up what you want to do. A real Sandbox isn't 1000s of players each with their own little box of sand to do with as they wish, it's 1000s of players all in one box playing with the same sand together. They can be solo, but they still have to deal with the 1000s of others in the same box. As to what EVE is, CCP describe it as a Sandbox, not a hybrid. Whether they have delivered a real Sandbox is another question. In regards to the OP, there was a dev post somewhere saying the Wardec system on test is the old system and they have something new in the works.
Yet goons, test and CFC with CCP have decided that unless you want to be a drone in an alliance of thousands you have no place in eve, even if all you want to do is mine in high-sec.
They have also decided that unless you got 24 hours to spend playing this game you should not be able to enjoy it anymore.
Thanks. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
554
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Posted - 2012.05.03 23:33:00 -
[99] - Quote
Fishmaskle wrote:I don't think I have seen a thread by the OP that doesn't start with a whine followed by calling people that don't see his point of view as perfect, stupid/idiots.
Though they do provide a bit of entertainment on the slow end of a workday... So would you consider it a whine or a troll? Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
6378
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Posted - 2012.05.03 23:34:00 -
[100] - Quote
Twulf wrote:If it was a true Sandbox game then any play style would be valid. Even solo play would be a valid option. Even in a Multiplayer game, if it is a Sandbox, solo play would be valid. GǪand as luck would have it, it is valid because EVE is a sandbox game GÇö there is no GÇ£hybridGÇ¥ about it. Nothing in the game forces you to not solo. What makes soloing a bad idea is the fact that, being a sandbox, the other kids will have banded together to take all the sand and will hit you with their spades (and they have an awful lot of spades) if you try to take any of it back.
What makes your play style GÇ£invalidGÇ¥ (which is the wrong word GÇö GÇ£suboptimalGÇ¥ or GÇ£inefficientGÇ¥ would be a better choice) is the fact that the social construct that has grown out of this sandbox has yielded an environment where you will not be able to keep up with the Joneses if you choose to do everything yourself. This does not make the game any less of a sandbox GÇö quite the opposite: it is an effect of the game being a sandbox, not a cause of some kind of non-sandbox:iness.
Fannie Maes wrote:Yet goons, test and CFC with CCP have decided that unless you want to be a drone in an alliance of thousands you have no place in eve, even if all you want to do is mine in high-sec. Humour. You know, you really should vary your routine a bit more, because this kind of completely-detached-from-reality nonsense wears thin very quickly.
Put another way: no, they haven't. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants. |
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
554
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Posted - 2012.05.03 23:36:00 -
[101] - Quote
Fannie Maes wrote:[Yet goons, test and CFC with CCP have decided that unless you want to be a drone in an alliance of thousands you have no place in eve, even if all you want to do is mine in high-sec. How large are NPC corps? Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd |
Simetraz
State War Academy Caldari State
245
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Posted - 2012.05.03 23:43:00 -
[102] - Quote
OP or
What if it worked like this.
Smaller corp / alliance attacks a larger corp / alliance flat 50 mill price
Larger Corporation / Alliance attacks a small corporation / Alliance Price is 50 mill + the number of members above the alliance you are attacking.
So 1002 Alliance attacks a 2 person corp would be 550 mill.
All the other rules applies when it comes to multiple wars etc.
Would that square things up ?
Smaller corps or alliances have protection in a ISK price to war dec them and the larger has what they always had, pure numbers
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Nephilius
Knights of Athena Star Council
387
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Posted - 2012.05.03 23:45:00 -
[103] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:Akirei Scytale wrote:"Oh god, my logi pilots have to know what they're doing and I can't pay pocket change for hundreds of targets anymore!"
You know where you don't have to pay ISK to kill people? Low, Null and WH space. Perhaps you should try leaving the crib. What people like you, and people on the CSM... and thus CCP, does not understand. Is that many of us ******* hate null sec life, politics, your leadership, and the stupid mindless ******* blob. That is why we are not out there, it has nothing to do with how we choose to PVP. Well I see you at least hate people blobbing neutral RR guardians on stations, so that's fair enough. I did get a kick out of seeing an Abaddon with 5 RR Guardians get popped instantly by 40 Tornados. Ah, alphastrike-based doctrines.
Nerf Tornados. OP. That is all. To call me a Carebear is a misnomer...while it is true that I am hairy like a bear (or two russian women), I really don't care.-á Like, at all.-á Call me an Apathybear.-á Just don't call if you need assistance. |
Fannie Maes
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
230
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Posted - 2012.05.03 23:47:00 -
[104] - Quote
Nephilius wrote:Alavaria Fera wrote:Eternum Praetorian wrote:Akirei Scytale wrote:"Oh god, my logi pilots have to know what they're doing and I can't pay pocket change for hundreds of targets anymore!"
You know where you don't have to pay ISK to kill people? Low, Null and WH space. Perhaps you should try leaving the crib. What people like you, and people on the CSM... and thus CCP, does not understand. Is that many of us ******* hate null sec life, politics, your leadership, and the stupid mindless ******* blob. That is why we are not out there, it has nothing to do with how we choose to PVP. Well I see you at least hate people blobbing neutral RR guardians on stations, so that's fair enough. I did get a kick out of seeing an Abaddon with 5 RR Guardians get popped instantly by 40 Tornados. Ah, alphastrike-based doctrines. Nerf Tornados. OP. That is all.
You are not allowed to nerf Goon and CFC fleet doctrine. |
Akirei Scytale
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1303
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Posted - 2012.05.03 23:50:00 -
[105] - Quote
Fannie Maes wrote: You are not allowed to nerf Goon and CFC fleet doctrine.
Tornadoes are not fleet doctrine, FYI. TEST Alliance BEST Alliance |
Fannie Maes
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
230
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 23:50:00 -
[106] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Twulf wrote:If it was a true Sandbox game then any play style would be valid. Even solo play would be a valid option. Even in a Multiplayer game, if it is a Sandbox, solo play would be valid. GǪand as luck would have it, it is valid because EVE is a sandbox game GÇö there is no GÇ£hybridGÇ¥ about it. Nothing in the game forces you to not solo. What makes soloing a bad idea is the fact that, being a sandbox, the other kids will have banded together to take all the sand and will hit you with their spades (and they have an awful lot of spades) if you try to take any of it back. What makes your play style GÇ£invalidGÇ¥ (which is the wrong word GÇö GÇ£suboptimalGÇ¥ or GÇ£inefficientGÇ¥ would be a better choice) is the fact that the social construct that has grown out of this sandbox has yielded an environment where you will not be able to keep up with the Joneses if you choose to do everything yourself. This does not make the game any less of a sandbox GÇö quite the opposite: it is an effect of the game being a sandbox, not a cause of some kind of non-sandbox:iness. Fannie Maes wrote:Yet goons, test and CFC with CCP have decided that unless you want to be a drone in an alliance of thousands you have no place in eve, even if all you want to do is mine in high-sec. Humour. You know, you really should vary your routine a bit more, because this kind of completely-detached-from-reality nonsense wears thin very quickly. Put another way: no, they haven't.
Nice retort, care to explain how I am wrong? |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
6378
|
Posted - 2012.05.03 23:51:00 -
[107] - Quote
Simetraz wrote:What if it worked like this.
Smaller corp / alliance attacks a larger corp / alliance flat 50 mill price
Larger Corporation / Alliance attacks a small corporation / Alliance Price is 50 mill + the number of members above the alliance you are attacking.
So 1002 Alliance attacks a 2 person corp would be 550 mill.
All the other rules applies when it comes to multiple wars etc.
Would that square things up ? Nah. It needs to be adjusted both ways: a smaller corp attacking a larger one or a large corp attacking a smaller one.
My favourite so far is abs( ln( attacker / defender ) / ln(cost scaling factor) ) +ù scale difference cost + base cost.
GǪor just abs(attacker - defender) +ù scale differece cost + base cost.
Fannie Maes wrote:Nice retort, care to explain how I am wrong? TEST and CFC does not dictate game changes. They also do not care about how you arrange your group participation. CCP doesn't care about how you arrange your group participation either, and they think any play style you can invent has a place in EVE. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants. |
Torneach
Hedion University Amarr Empire
26
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Posted - 2012.05.03 23:51:00 -
[108] - Quote
I just think that wardec costs should be calculated purely on difference in SP between the two involved parties.
That way smaller, newbier corps are protected from both large and small veteran-filled corporations, and smaller, skilled corporations can wage war on huge entities with little money paid to NPCs, and instead can focus their finances on fighting the enemy. |
Fannie Maes
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
230
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Posted - 2012.05.03 23:53:00 -
[109] - Quote
Akirei Scytale wrote:Fannie Maes wrote: You are not allowed to nerf Goon and CFC fleet doctrine.
Tornadoes are not fleet doctrine, FYI.
Please by all means provide a link to all your fleet doctrines in test, goons and CFC and let us all have a laugh at my expense. |
Akirei Scytale
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1303
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Posted - 2012.05.03 23:56:00 -
[110] - Quote
Fannie Maes wrote:Akirei Scytale wrote:Fannie Maes wrote: You are not allowed to nerf Goon and CFC fleet doctrine.
Tornadoes are not fleet doctrine, FYI. Please by all means provide a link to all your fleet doctrines in test, goons and CFC and let us all have a laugh at my expense.
The CFC uses mostly Maelstroms, Scimitars, Drakes, Hurricanes and Zealots. Those are the core ships for most doctrines.
Obviously there are a ton of different support ships mixed in. Tornadoes are not built for fleet warfare.
How do you not know this? TEST Alliance BEST Alliance |
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Fannie Maes
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
230
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Posted - 2012.05.04 00:00:00 -
[111] - Quote
Akirei Scytale wrote:Fannie Maes wrote:Akirei Scytale wrote:Fannie Maes wrote: You are not allowed to nerf Goon and CFC fleet doctrine.
Tornadoes are not fleet doctrine, FYI. Please by all means provide a link to all your fleet doctrines in test, goons and CFC and let us all have a laugh at my expense. The CFC uses mostly Maelstroms, Scimitars, Drakes, Hurricanes and Zealots. Those are the core ships for most doctrines. Obviously there are a ton of different support ships mixed in. Tornadoes are not built for fleet warfare. How do you not know this?
I asked for links, still waiting.
(PS: I do already know this, including their fittings, but I am trying to prove a point and you are helping me.) |
Akirei Scytale
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1303
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Posted - 2012.05.04 00:06:00 -
[112] - Quote
Fannie Maes wrote: I asked for links, still waiting.
Do you seriously want me to link you to the wiki? TEST Alliance BEST Alliance |
Fannie Maes
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
230
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Posted - 2012.05.04 00:08:00 -
[113] - Quote
Akirei Scytale wrote:Fannie Maes wrote: I asked for links, still waiting.
Do you seriously want me to link you to the wiki?
Any link to your fleet doctrine will do just fine, or you can simply cut and paste the fits here. |
Akirei Scytale
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1303
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Posted - 2012.05.04 00:12:00 -
[114] - Quote
Here you go. TEST Alliance BEST Alliance |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
554
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Posted - 2012.05.04 00:15:00 -
[115] - Quote
Akirei Scytale wrote:Do you seriously want me to link you to the wiki? Also, grats on knowing something everyone in EVE knows, while implying tornadoes are standard doctrine (they get raped by AHACs) Doesn't AAA have an oracle fleet or something? They shot one of your POSes with it, right? Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd |
Akirei Scytale
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1306
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Posted - 2012.05.04 00:16:00 -
[116] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote: Doesn't AAA have an oracle fleet or something? They shot one of your POSes with it, right?
~Implying we keep track of our POSes that have a habit of mysteriously disappearing~
My explanation was always POS gremlins. TEST Alliance BEST Alliance |
Fannie Maes
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
230
|
Posted - 2012.05.04 00:16:00 -
[117] - Quote
Sorry but the url did not contain CCP so I did not click it. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
554
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Posted - 2012.05.04 00:19:00 -
[118] - Quote
Akirei Scytale wrote:Alavaria Fera wrote: Doesn't AAA have an oracle fleet or something? They shot one of your POSes with it, right?
~Implying we keep track of our POSes that have a habit of mysteriously disappearing~ My explanation was always POS gremlins. Actually I only remember because it was broadcast. During Tenal or something? That they had taken 200 Oracles to shoot a dickstar. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd |
Ronald Ray Gun
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
2
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Posted - 2012.05.04 00:20:00 -
[119] - Quote
Excuse my ignorance but I thought there was a new system being implemented that means small corp will be able to call for aid via some sort of contract and the people who agree to help get a free war dec?
Maybe CCP are hoping that people who are looking for a fight will just look through the 'we are at war and need help' and go smush the weakest 'griefing' corp they can find. (I hate to use the term 'griefing' but you know what I mean)
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
6378
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Posted - 2012.05.04 00:30:00 -
[120] - Quote
Ronald Ray Gun wrote:Excuse my ignorance but I thought there was a new system being implemented that means small corp will be able to call for aid via some sort of contract and the people who agree to help get a free war dec?
Maybe CCP are hoping that people who are looking for a fight will just look through the 'we are at war and need help' and go smush the weakest 'griefing' corp they can find. (I hate to use the term 'griefing' but you know what I mean) Sure, but they are also assuming that those people will get paid for the effort, and the way the system is currently set up, that won't happen. With the proposed wardec scheme, the merc marketplace will pretty much have to be a pro bono or charity affair. It is unlikely to work as the kind ofGǪ wellGǪ marketplace they intend it to be because the targets who need the help will not be in a position to pay for it.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants. |
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