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Tatsa
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.04.10 07:56:00 -
[1]
Sorry, noobie mission runner post.
Basically, I am doing L3s at the moment in a dual repped Myrmidon, finding it a bit snooze mode, clear most missions quite quickly and nothing breaks my tank even when warp bugs out and launches me into the middle of a full room of aggro.
I am currently training skills and saving isk to move onto battleships for L4 missions - currently the obvious choice is a domi, but that's gonna be another snoozefest. I am wondering how much worse would it be in a megat? anyone have experience? I am hoping the dps increase makes up for less tank.
ôMerchant and pirate were for a long period one and the same person. Even today mercantile morality is really nothing but a refinement of piratical morality.ö |
Dirk Magnum
Royal Hiigaran Navy SCUM.
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Posted - 2009.04.10 07:57:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 10/04/2009 07:58:34
Missions are all about tank. Go with the Domi. The only thing to beware of with the Dominix is aggro control, because drones will sometimes attack things that aren't aggroing you at the moment, setting off an aggro chain that may substantially increase the damage you take.
Nothing makes missions exciting, btw (unless other players warp in.) So it's best to just use whatever is most effective.
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Ig Neus
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Posted - 2009.04.10 08:29:00 -
[3]
Missions are not "about tank". That is the typical noobish approach of people who overtank their Battleships and do missions in them.
That said, the main advantage of a Dominix is not its tank. There are many Battleships that can tank better. Dominix' advantage is that it can choose its damage type and it actually deals more damage than most Battleships set up for mission running can deal, while being cap stable and having a sufficient tank.
If you want to go for a Megathron, by all means go for it. Still, a Dominix with tech 2 Sentry (Gardes in most cases) is the best T1 Battleship for missioning.
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Dirk Magnum
Royal Hiigaran Navy SCUM.
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Posted - 2009.04.10 08:53:00 -
[4]
Alright the "all about tank" statement was oversimplified, but tank sustainability is essential to efficient mission running. If you're constantly warping out and back in because you can't control the range you need to keep sufficient damage output from your ship due to a lack of sustainable turret optimals then there's a problem. With a sufficient tank you can just sort of sit there and absorb everything and a lower damage output isn't as big a deal, particularly with a Dominix since your main source of DPS only requires you to be within a certain distance for drones to work. Sentry turrets obviously have the optimal range consideration but the mobile stuff doesn't.
Obviously you shouldn't try to put together some kind of super tank that can permarun protection against 2000 DPS, but a super gank setup that folds at the drop of a hat despite being able to eradicate a lot of enemies quickly isn't the solution either. So just find an appropriate balance between damage delivery and absorption, but any tank that doesn't let you complete missions without a lot of warp-outs is not the way to do it.
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Helena Zeugir
Gallente FW Scuad Black Core Alliance
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Posted - 2009.04.10 11:11:00 -
[5]
Pshaw. I tank 566 DPS permanently at 707 dps or 932 dps for eleven minutes. Domi is the way to go.
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Tatsa
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.04.10 11:16:00 -
[6]
Sentry drones added to skill plan and Domi it is then! :)
ôMerchant and pirate were for a long period one and the same person. Even today mercantile morality is really nothing but a refinement of piratical morality.ö |
Ig Neus
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Posted - 2009.04.10 11:23:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Dirk Magnum Alright the "all about tank" statement was oversimplified, but tank sustainability is essential to efficient mission running. If you're constantly warping out and back in because you can't control the range you need to keep sufficient damage output from your ship due to a lack of sustainable turret optimals then there's a problem. With a sufficient tank you can just sort of sit there and absorb everything and a lower damage output isn't as big a deal, particularly with a Dominix since your main source of DPS only requires you to be within a certain distance for drones to work. Sentry turrets obviously have the optimal range consideration but the mobile stuff doesn't.
Obviously you shouldn't try to put together some kind of super tank that can permarun protection against 2000 DPS, but a super gank setup that folds at the drop of a hat despite being able to eradicate a lot of enemies quickly isn't the solution either. So just find an appropriate balance between damage delivery and absorption, but any tank that doesn't let you complete missions without a lot of warp-outs is not the way to do it.
And I was a bit offensive ;p
Anyway point is that a single LAR + 4 mission specific Hardeners are enough for any mission if your skills are ok, you know what to shoot and you do above average damage.
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Coriander Rinne
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2009.04.10 16:20:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Ig Neus
And I was a bit offensive ;p
Anyway point is that a single LAR + 4 mission specific Hardeners are enough for any mission if your skills are ok, you know what to shoot and you do above average damage.
This. Most of the time, the people overtanking are putting themselves in bad situations or not bringing enough dps, which then results in them needing the tank.
Anyway, the dominix is an excellent mission boat, but not for the reason that most people use it (lol i put on all salvagers, aggro pocket and go AFK!!!1!one)
You have solid turret damage at your disposal, and enough dronebay to roll into any mission prepared for everything it can throw at you.
Don't waste your limited powergrid with a second repper. You don't need it. Anyway, aim for something like this:
5x 350mm Railgun (meta 4 is fine, T2 fits with high skills) Drone Link
2x (your choice Omnidirectional Tracking or Tracking Computer) 3x Cap Rechager II
Large Rep (upgrade to faction when possible) 4x Hardeners 2x Magstabs
3x Cap Control Circuit
Drones: 2x heavies/sentries, 2x mediums, 1x hobgoblins
Just as a warning, this may be a tight fit for you low skillpoints types. Advanced Weapons Upgrades to at least 2 is recommended, although with a named T1/faction repper you can get by with engineering 5.
This is what I generally use when I'm in a domi, but my skillpoints tend to lean towards guns. The build is not stable on EFT, but the cap lasts long enough (with my skills, EM4, ESO5, CB4) that your guns will have to reload, so it kind of self-stabilizes. Keep an eye on it, but you shouldn't ever really have problems.
If you want to go with a more drone-heavy build, you can replace the magstabs with cap power relays, and rig yourself up with drone stuff. You have enough spare CPU that it shouldn't be a problem with moderate skills.
Anyway, the guns give you a couple hundred dps to weed out cruisers and battlecruisers as they close on you, while your sentries smack around the big stuff.
As for the megathron, it's really not so bad, but not nearly as versatile as the dominix. The megathron has the same basic idea to fitting it (subtract a tracking comp, add a gun). Best piece of advice I can give about the megathron is to carry a wing of hobgoblins. Yes, it means you can't use 5 heavies/sentries, but you need the lights to mop up frigates. ---
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation PuPPet MasTers
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Posted - 2009.04.10 16:30:00 -
[9]
Posting my support for the Sentry Domi as a Win mission boat. I hear the Kronos is better but haven't actually tried it.
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
demonfurbie
Minmatar Covert-Nexus Dark Cadre
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Posted - 2009.04.10 16:56:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Liang Nuren Posting my support for the Sentry Domi as a Win mission boat. I hear the Kronos is better but haven't actually tried it.
-Liang
kronos is ok but the domi is wonderful dont discount the ishtar for missions that are a pain to tank or cause drone aggro
i passive shield tank my ishtar and it can tank 1500 serp dps so aggro every thing pop out sents orbit the sents at 5k and let them do there stuffs ... no lost drones that way
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Athaka Jamo
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Posted - 2009.04.10 22:04:00 -
[11]
What Coriander said but I would suggest using a cap power relay instead of the second mag stab and swapping out one of the CCC's with a sentry drone aug. This ship does about 750 dps with faction ammo (if you so choose, I like killing things fast even if it isn't economically sound) and about a 500 dps tank with an amarr large repper. Because of the swap with the second mag stab this ship is completely cap stable --- albeit you do lose 30 or so dps but at ~750 dps what does it matter, you're toasting anything at or under 50km in range regardless. The tank is more than enough given you use your brain and don't pull like an idiot.
5x 350mm meta 4's 1x drone link
3x cap recharger II's 2x omni's (can swap one out for afterburner and move some mods around)
4x T2 hardeners 1x high meta cap relay or t2 1x mag stab II (or faction) 1x amarr navy large armor rep.
2x ccc's 1x sentry drone aug.
garde II's whatever else you want
Note that this setup is skill intensive, I've been training towards flying this well for about 5 months now and I'm about maxed in everything and just completed it with amazing results. Without going the shield tank-gank route (my shield skills blow) I believe this one of the best non-afk domi's you can get.
http://tinyurl.com/cj26a8
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Joe Martin
Gunship Diplomacy
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Posted - 2009.04.10 22:12:00 -
[12]
Domi is the preferred mission running ship because it has 6 simple steps to profit:
1) Enter mission, aggro the room 2) Turn on perma-tank 3) Release drones 4) AFK while drones complete mission for you 5) ??? 6) Profit
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Cthulhu F'taghn
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Posted - 2009.04.10 22:51:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Cthulhu F''taghn on 10/04/2009 22:52:50 If you want not a snooze mode go with a single good repper (Amarr Navy), 5 x 350mms rails, tracking link in the mids and a mag stab in the lows. You actually have to think (or at least follow the mission guides) instead of release drones -> go afk. Finish missions a lot quicker too (~700dps with good skills).
EDIT: didn't read the thread first but yeah, +1 what Athaka said.
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Angelos
Gateway Industries
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Posted - 2009.04.11 02:03:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Coriander Rinne Best piece of advice I can give about the megathron is to carry a wing of hobgoblins. Yes, it means you can't use 5 heavies/sentries, but you need the lights to mop up frigates.
That's ridiculous. Just pop the frigs yourself or have your sentries do it. I mission run in a thron and NEVER bring light drones. I just ran a mission and popped more than half a dozen frigates in seconds because so long as you have them at range when you warp in, they die in one volley. If they are too close, your drones can take care of them while you pick the next target.
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation PuPPet MasTers
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Posted - 2009.04.11 03:03:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Angelos
That's ridiculous. Just pop the frigs yourself or have your sentries do it. I mission run in a thron and NEVER bring light drones. I just ran a mission and popped more than half a dozen frigates in seconds because so long as you have them at range when you warp in, they die in one volley. If they are too close, your drones can take care of them while you pick the next target.
Erm, I'd probably take 4 heavies/sentries and 5 lights. Then again, I fly a mission domi too...
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
Ig Neus
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Posted - 2009.04.11 10:39:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Angelos
Originally by: Coriander Rinne Best piece of advice I can give about the megathron is to carry a wing of hobgoblins. Yes, it means you can't use 5 heavies/sentries, but you need the lights to mop up frigates.
That's ridiculous. Just pop the frigs yourself or have your sentries do it. I mission run in a thron and NEVER bring light drones. I just ran a mission and popped more than half a dozen frigates in seconds because so long as you have them at range when you warp in, they die in one volley. If they are too close, your drones can take care of them while you pick the next target.
Lag / someone at door / whatever random mistake = an interceptor orbiting your Megathron at 500m, webbing and scrambling you. Good luck killing it with Sentries / Heavy Drones. I guess that eventually you will move far away from your Gardes for them to hit it but this will be some time and you even have to fly back to pick them after...
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Elhina Novae
Ginnungagaps Rymdfarargille Blade.
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Posted - 2009.04.11 11:56:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Dirk Magnum Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 10/04/2009 07:58:34 Missions are all minimal tank/max gank.
Fix'd that one for ya ------------
Originally by: Boz Well
Originally by: SurrenderMonkey ... There's an Amarr problem?
Nothing that can't be solved by more Minmatar nerfs.
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Angelos
Gateway Industries
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Posted - 2009.04.11 18:06:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Ig Neus
Lag / someone at door / whatever random mistake = an interceptor orbiting your Megathron at 500m, webbing and scrambling you. Good luck killing it with Sentries / Heavy Drones. I guess that eventually you will move far away from your Gardes for them to hit it but this will be some time and you even have to fly back to pick them after...
Easy solution, stop lagging and pay attention.
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Innui
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Posted - 2009.04.11 19:07:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Angelos
Easy solution, stop lagging and pay attention.
qft, I wish people would realise that not all missions allow for /afk, respawns/triggers/timered spawns mean anything? All of which could easily start <10km (8-9km is the point garde II's start to fail) and overall since QR I find my drones targetted quite frequently by missions rats that refuse to be aggroed by my 350's even after scooping them up.
The only drones I don't carry are heavies, they're too slow unless all the BS's are under 10km, I prefer to sic sentries on BS's while I use my 4x 350mm rails to splat cruisers between 20-58km away (I only use AM charges these days) basically whichever is best at hitting the target, if I can't hit the cruisers because I'm being lazy and not moving I'll let the sentries do it and hit the BS myself.
What I like most about flying a domi is this consideration between range and effectiveness, when I flew a CNR the drones killed frigs, I nuked BS. In my Domi it's variable just based on NPC faction alone, plus I like how flexible the domi is when it comes to fitting it, mostly I run a single rep and 4 hardeners, my cap isn't stable but it's a choice between guns and rep for maybe 5 mins and it's nice to be able to turtle up once the heat is off and let my drones finish things off while letting the rails take a break.
I wouldn't rate the domi too highly as an AFK boat, not unless it's a single pocket with no spawns and you know it well enough to drop the right drones but it sure won't be any faster, rather do the work and get an extra mission or 3 in the same time.
Lot of blurble there, just I was a caldari pilot and now I'm religiously gallente (although i hate you all but nice ships!) whenever possible :p
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Visceroth
Minmatar The Athiest Syndicate Advocated Destruction
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Posted - 2009.04.11 19:39:00 -
[20]
I have a supplemental question to this.
How do you run a mission domi with sentries? do you just drop sentries than orbit at their optimal?
What is an effective setup for a rail/sentry domi and how would it be used effectively?
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NoNah
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Posted - 2009.04.11 19:50:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Visceroth I have a supplemental question to this.
How do you run a mission domi with sentries? do you just drop sentries than orbit at their optimal?
What is an effective setup for a rail/sentry domi and how would it be used effectively?
Drop sentries pop everything before it gets close. Pick of what you can't track with the sentries with the remainder of your dronebay. IE frigates spawning close to you.
There's really two good ways of running a domi in missions.
1) Armortank it, 2 lars, hardeners, permatank. Grab full aggro, drop drones. Rince and repeat with a few clients to improve improve income. Excellent isk/day income, horrible isk/h income.
2) Shield tank it. full rack of 425mm's, sentry drones tracking links. Rush through missions at a great speed, excellent isk/h but requires you to be active. Parrots, commence!
Postcount: 382442
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.04.11 20:52:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Furb Killer on 11/04/2009 20:52:59 Does not really compute, since drone tracking links are mid slots modules, and so is your shield tank.
Shield domi is nice (still planning to get one once i got my drone skills higher), but it does lack mid slot drone upgrades. ---------------------------------------------
Originally by: Neth'Rae Military experts are calling this a troll.
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Innui
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Posted - 2009.04.11 23:02:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Visceroth I have a supplemental question to this.
How do you run a mission domi with sentries? do you just drop sentries than orbit at their optimal?
What is an effective setup for a rail/sentry domi and how would it be used effectively?
I use 3 omnidirectionals, garde II's, as soon as I've warped in and gained aggro I drop the drones, start killing between 10-60km for the gardes and 20-58km for my rails, I use bouncers if the rats are beyond garde range. Soon as all targets in optimal ranges for the gardes are dead I then use lights to mop up, since it's usually only frigs left if I didn't kill those first, depends on mission spawn triggers etc.
It goes fast if you're active and know what to expect, don't even have to move much, if it's heavy DPS I use dual rep but more often than not I only need one low for a repper.
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2009.04.12 04:17:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Dirk Magnum Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 10/04/2009 07:58:34
Missions are all about tank.
LOLz
Wherever you went - Here you are.
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Von Kapiche
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.04.12 05:30:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Visceroth I have a supplemental question to this.
How do you run a mission domi with sentries? do you just drop sentries than orbit at their optimal?
What is an effective setup for a rail/sentry domi and how would it be used effectively?
Tons of domi setup threads around, one even on the same page atm.
How to use? warp in, stop, drop sentries, shoot stuff, preferably nearest things first. If you move away from your sentries you'll a) have to go back & pick them up, and b) lose them if they get aggro when you can't retrieve them. If stuff has got too close, pop heavies & start moving so you can track; similarily if there's a gate miles away, I pop some stuff with sentries first, then pop heavies & start travelling while I deal with the rest.
Frigs you either shoot first with sentries, or ignore & clean after with lights. I usually do the former.
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Erika Bronz
Gallente The Wyld Hunt
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Posted - 2009.04.12 13:32:00 -
[26]
When the missions are full of triggers and respawns, the Mega may perform better than the Domi, due to the scooping and redeploying of drones that get aggro. On the other hand, missions with EW are best with the Domi, since drones are not affectet when you are jammed, dampened or whatevered. Tank is highly overappreciated as an approach to missions. Gank as much as virtually possible, and you will see the need for tank drops rapidly. My standard mission Navythron has a omnitank of only 210 hps and only rarely drop below 50% armor. My standard mission Domi has a 440 hps omnitank, and never has trouble. My dps is just over 600 with the Navythron and just over 500 with the Domi.
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Guer
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Posted - 2009.04.12 14:36:00 -
[27]
I've found that 5x 350 rails, drone link, 3-4 cap rechargers, 1-2 drone mods, 1 lar and 4 hardeners and 2 magstabs to be the best all around fit for my domi.
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Laur Khal
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Posted - 2009.04.13 01:43:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Guer I've found that 5x 350 rails, drone link, 3-4 cap rechargers, 1-2 drone mods, 1 lar and 4 hardeners and 2 magstabs to be the best all around fit for my domi.
the rails are about 1/3rd the DPS of the drones. don't bother with mag stabs, replace with cap power relays and use your mid-slots for drone tracking mods (OTL; at least 2, 3 better) and/or even a target painter.
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Arazel Chainfire
Dissolution Of Eternity Ethikos Trade Alliance
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Posted - 2009.04.13 03:43:00 -
[29]
From my own experience, I perfer domi over even the kronos, and kronos is significantly better than the mega. One thing to keep in mind is that with 2 omni's and good drone skills, ogre 2's can 1-2 volley even elite frigs, meaning that you can carry 2 sets of sentrys (guards necessary, other whatever you want) and 1 set of heavies to kill stuff that is within 10km. Of course... my domi setup has 6 425's in the highs, and a three slot shield tank, and isn't able to do every mission. For the missions I do pull it out for though... nothing beats 1000dps at 40km
-Arazel
Originally by: Tsanse Kinske
Mutual Incomprehension is one of the Four Horsemen of most internet arguments, I guess, along with Unfettered Hostility, Overwhelming Vagueness, and Lack of Evidence.
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Mr Cavity
Gallente The Professional's Club The Second Genesis
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Posted - 2009.04.13 20:28:00 -
[30]
It's not that hard to run lvl4's in a myrmidon, just fit a single repper and 4 hardeners and 4 cap recharger 2's. That way you can leave everything except an afterburner on and never lose cap. With drones, some lvl 4's are still snooze fests if you don't run into the middle of the spawn. payout for 4's is way better than 3's.
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