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RedeyeAce
Caldari Inspired Evolution
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Posted - 2009.04.17 11:07:00 -
[1]
Edited by: RedeyeAce on 17/04/2009 11:09:59
Can anyone say minmatar lol
If anyone hasnt seen it yet, heres the link to the post.
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1051722
This is a serious thread so thinking caps on before spouting rubbish. The Thread link above is for your top 3 immediate balancing issues only and is NOT for discussions as posted by Nozh.
Feel free to discuss balancing in here and lets get a decent list going so they can get the team on what we feel is neccessary.
Red.
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TimMc
Gallente Brutal Deliverance
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Posted - 2009.04.17 11:31:00 -
[2]
bump for an important thread.
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RedeyeAce
Caldari Inspired Evolution
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Posted - 2009.04.17 12:43:00 -
[3]
So ignoring requests which ccp have very recently introduced in 1.1 the hot potatoes so to speak are
ecm drones t2 ammo artillery blasters rockets high sec l4 missions assault frigs Titans web nerf
I personally put defenders in there, just due to the fact that, who the hell fits them... are there any more modules that could benefit from a re-do?
Then what do we think the top 3 problems are... please discuss in here and post what YOU want them to look at in the above OP link.
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Ronin Reborn
Wrath of Fenris
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Posted - 2009.04.17 12:57:00 -
[4]
Cruiser agility. Or time to warp, W/E
With module delay it's damn near impossible to catch things on gates. Add to this larger gate sizes, web nerfs, scrams being needed and you need more people to cover it. Leads to larger camps, blobbing blah blah blah. Call me crazy but I think a 2x SEBO Stilleto should be able to nab caracals.
Wouldn't mind to see an active tanking buff. Buffer tanks/gank fits are better in almost all situations I see so it'd be nice to have that option back.
And I'll sign off on rockets too, very seldom see them used. T1 Amarr cruisers (looking at you Omen) could use a few *slight* tweeks as well.
But yeah, do something about ship agility, that's my main gripe. Cruisers in particular, larger ships (barring travel fits, and that's ok) can still be caught.
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Renesis Maximus
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Posted - 2009.04.17 14:41:00 -
[5]
I think the biggest concerns for me are blasters and t2 ammo.
Blasters IIRC were originally supposed to introduce a sphere of pwn around a blaster boat where anything that got into optimal range of a blaster boat, it was a goner if it couldn't neut it. I remember seeing blaster Teranis' taking out well-fit battleships because of the strength of blasters. In addition to boosting their strength, I could go for increasing the tracking of blasters. Having blaster with low tracking is is exactly the opposite of what they should be. Blasters should be super-close, fast tracking. Fast tracking on rails is counter-intuitive, since rails are meant to be a longer range gun. Why do you need fast tracking speed to track something very far away. It's moving at a slower radians/second, so the rails should not have higher tracking than something that is meant to be fit on a MWD Gankmonster who rushes in and blows away a ship all while barely staying out of structure. That, IMHO is what blaster boats should be, but we are forced to lower our damage mods and fit tracking computers and tank so we can actually hit something and not be killed in the process.
In conclusion, blaster are effectively broken for PVP.
As far as T2 ammo is concerned. The drawbacks for the close range ammo are counter-intuitive. If you have a close range ammo type, then why the hell does it have a tracking penalty?!?! I can understand super short range...hell, I can understand more cap use, but if you are close range, it should have a tracking bonus...Make it worth 1200 per round for me to use T2 ammo. I guarantee if it was worth it, I would buy all of it up within 5 jumps of me.
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TimMc
Gallente Brutal Deliverance
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Posted - 2009.04.17 16:30:00 -
[6]
Edited by: TimMc on 17/04/2009 16:30:15 ECM drones - Need to be dropped to 40% strength they are currently. Then make drone interfacing effect them.
Artillery - Slight clip size increase. Double alpha, nearly double the RoF to compensate.
Tempest - Needs another turret and fitting space for said turret.
Rockets - Need to be doing 2-3 times as much damage as they are now. Fittings should go up in reaction to this.
Blasters - Need an increase in tracking, perhaps 20-30%. See how that goes.
T2 Close range ammo - Need to do same damage as t1 close range, but have positive tracking bonus. Alternative option is for them to keep their horrible tracking deduction but increase cap usage and damage by 25%.
Level 4 missions - Need more level 4 and 5 agents in Nullsec. Need all agents in nullsec to be quality 20. Need all agents in low sec to be between 0 and 20. All agents in empire be between -20 and 0.
Assault frigates - Need a forth bonus. I vote another damage bonus.
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magamore
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Posted - 2009.04.17 16:32:00 -
[7]
Agree 100% ^^^^^^ Was doing some pvp practice last night with my corp using my Thorax Blast boat. My thought was to get in as fast as possible and blast away. It was my first time using Blasters and was very disappointed with the effect. First off it was dam hard to even hit the target and second the damage was less then my rails that I use from 55k-10k away. I see no need to use them and did dock my ship and changed my setup. Now they where only tech 1 guns but even with that said you think they would have some type of kick to them.
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RedeyeAce
Caldari Inspired Evolution
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Posted - 2009.04.17 17:08:00 -
[8]
I was having another think about mods that arent used i.e. defenders... and what about Warp Core stabs... They got nerfed to hell and back and quite rightly so, however would it bring a bit more flavour to pvp again if they were un nerfed slightly? or perhaps have the current drawbacks, but more benefits i.e. t2 has +3wcs and some ability to get out of a HIC bubble?
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Wang Jing
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Posted - 2009.04.17 17:09:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Wang Jing on 17/04/2009 17:16:04 Edited by: Wang Jing on 17/04/2009 17:09:30
Originally by: TimMc Edited by: TimMc on 17/04/2009 16:30:15 Assault frigates - Need a forth bonus. I vote another damage bonus.
I made a thread in Features and suggestions about this: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1050315&page=1
I would argue that a damage bonus is only needed for the Hawk and Vengeance (lolrockets)
Some of the others should get the T1 frigates bonus. For example the Wolf and Jag sorely need to get the tracking bonus from the rifter, and the Harpy having the 5% shield resists would bring it into line with all the other caldari rail boats. The enyo and the retribution could get a 7.5% repair amount bonus, and the ishkur something to do with drones, perhaps control range?
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2009.04.17 17:27:00 -
[10]
1 Large artillery(it just sucks) 2 Assault Frigs(need another bonus) 3 Rockets(they are worse than sucking) 4 Damps(need a boost)
Wherever you went - Here you are.
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Borat Sangdiev
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Posted - 2009.04.17 17:44:00 -
[11]
Web nerf!
get rid of it.
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Hixxy
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2009.04.17 17:54:00 -
[12]
Originally by: TimMc Edited by: TimMc on 17/04/2009 16:30:15 ECM drones - Need to be dropped to 40% strength they are currently. Then make drone interfacing effect them.
Artillery - Slight clip size increase. Double alpha, nearly double the RoF to compensate.
Tempest - Needs another turret and fitting space for said turret.
Rockets - Need to be doing 2-3 times as much damage as they are now. Fittings should go up in reaction to this.
Blasters - Need an increase in tracking, perhaps 20-30%. See how that goes.
T2 Close range ammo - Need to do same damage as t1 close range, but have positive tracking bonus. Alternative option is for them to keep their horrible tracking deduction but increase cap usage and damage by 25%.
Level 4 missions - Need more level 4 and 5 agents in Nullsec. Need all agents in nullsec to be quality 20. Need all agents in low sec to be between 0 and 20. All agents in empire be between -20 and 0.
Assault frigates - Need a forth bonus. I vote another damage bonus.
how the hell do you get time to study? :) if they didnt grab you yet they should.
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Beverly Sparks
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Posted - 2009.04.17 17:59:00 -
[13]
Why do people care about level 4 missions???
For the amount of work put in, the money is already pretty crappy.
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Lady Subspace
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Posted - 2009.04.17 18:26:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Lady Subspace on 17/04/2009 18:26:44 woops wrong thread
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Wang Jing
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Posted - 2009.04.17 18:30:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Beverly Sparks Why do people care about level 4 missions???
For the amount of work put in, the money is already pretty crappy.
Risk vs Reward
The sizeable rewards and the fact they are done with almost zero risk of loss completely imbalance all other ways to make isk in the game.
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Delnas Sapphire
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Posted - 2009.04.17 18:42:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Wang Jing
Originally by: Beverly Sparks Why do people care about level 4 missions???
For the amount of work put in, the money is already pretty crappy.
Risk vs Reward
The sizeable rewards and the fact they are done with almost zero risk of loss completely imbalance all other ways to make isk in the game.
Like trading or manufacturing right
Oh wait.....
Theres plenty of ways to make money with 0 risk in this game and level 4 missions are probably the most inneficient way of doing it.
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards Hoodlums Associates
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Posted - 2009.04.17 18:47:00 -
[17]
Edited by: baltec1 on 17/04/2009 18:48:16 Faction ships need help. The ashimmu I would get just for its looks but I do want to fit stuff on it.
My retri is good as is but I would love to be able to have another mid to get a point on it so i can go solo.
Rockets. I love the vengence but the rockets just arn't as good as they should be.
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Isabelle Sparks
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Posted - 2009.04.17 19:23:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Delnas Sapphire Like trading or manufacturing right
Oh wait.....
Theres plenty of ways to make money with 0 risk in this game and level 4 missions are probably the most inneficient way of doing it.
Exactly. Leave the mission runners alone, they are already working to hard for their isk.
If anything missioning in low sec should be substantially buffed. TBH, I cannot think of too many things more dangerous actually. I mean ratting in your alliances 0.0 sovereign space is pretty freaking safe compared to missioning in low sec.
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Wang Jing
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Posted - 2009.04.17 19:30:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Wang Jing on 17/04/2009 19:30:16
Originally by: Delnas Sapphire
Originally by: Wang Jing
Originally by: Beverly Sparks Why do people care about level 4 missions???
For the amount of work put in, the money is already pretty crappy.
Risk vs Reward
The sizeable rewards and the fact they are done with almost zero risk of loss completely imbalance all other ways to make isk in the game.
Like trading or manufacturing right
Oh wait.....
Theres plenty of ways to make money with 0 risk in this game and level 4 missions are probably the most inneficient way of doing it.
The difference is trading and manufacturing involve competition with other players, the so called market pvp. Missions do not. The same amount of isk is there for you to grind away at as much as you like.
But enough of this, lets talk about the important things, like 4th bonuses for assault frigates
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Delnas Sapphire
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Posted - 2009.04.17 19:35:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Wang Jing Edited by: Wang Jing on 17/04/2009 19:30:16
Originally by: Delnas Sapphire
Originally by: Wang Jing
Originally by: Beverly Sparks Why do people care about level 4 missions???
For the amount of work put in, the money is already pretty crappy.
Risk vs Reward
The sizeable rewards and the fact they are done with almost zero risk of loss completely imbalance all other ways to make isk in the game.
Like trading or manufacturing right
Oh wait.....
Theres plenty of ways to make money with 0 risk in this game and level 4 missions are probably the most inneficient way of doing it.
The difference is trading and manufacturing involve competition with other players, the so called market pvp. Missions do not. The same amount of isk is there for you to grind away at as much as you like.
But enough of this, lets talk about the important things, like 4th bonuses for assault frigates
The competition compensation in trading and manufacturing still takes LESS effort then level 4 missions and pays better. Currently level 4's take a lot of work to go through a decent amount.
Fact is l4's are fine and are as it stands one of the worst ways to make money among the succesful ways to make money in eve.
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Sera Ryskin
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Posted - 2009.04.17 20:23:00 -
[21]
Originally by: RedeyeAce I was having another think about mods that arent used i.e. defenders... and what about Warp Core stabs... They got nerfed to hell and back and quite rightly so, however would it bring a bit more flavour to pvp again if they were un nerfed slightly? or perhaps have the current drawbacks, but more benefits i.e. t2 has +3wcs and some ability to get out of a HIC bubble?
No. Absolutely not. In fact, WCS need to be nerfed again, something like a 50% damage penalty for each WCS fitted, to completely remove them from combat ships. WCS are fine on non-combat haulers and stuff, but the current "penalty" still leaves combat ships (especially ratting/mission ships) able to function far too effectively. ==========
Merin is currently enjoying a 14 day vacation from the forums. Until she returns, you've got me to entertain you!
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Paisley Snatch
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Posted - 2009.04.17 20:28:00 -
[22]
I'd like to see T2 target painters be better than PWNAGE.
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LORD LAZY
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Posted - 2009.04.17 20:50:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Renesis Maximus I think the biggest concerns for me are blasters and t2 ammo.
Blasters IIRC were originally supposed to introduce a sphere of pwn around a blaster boat where anything that got into optimal range of a blaster boat, it was a goner if it couldn't neut it. I remember seeing blaster Teranis' taking out well-fit battleships because of the strength of blasters. In addition to boosting their strength, I could go for increasing the tracking of blasters. Having blaster with low tracking is is exactly the opposite of what they should be. Blasters should be super-close, fast tracking. Fast tracking on rails is counter-intuitive, since rails are meant to be a longer range gun. Why do you need fast tracking speed to track something very far away. It's moving at a slower radians/second, so the rails should not have higher tracking than something that is meant to be fit on a MWD Gankmonster who rushes in and blows away a ship all while barely staying out of structure. That, IMHO is what blaster boats should be, but we are forced to lower our damage mods and fit tracking computers and tank so we can actually hit something and not be killed in the process.
In conclusion, blaster are effectively broken for PVP.
As far as T2 ammo is concerned. The drawbacks for the close range ammo are counter-intuitive. If you have a close range ammo type, then why the hell does it have a tracking penalty?!?! I can understand super short range...hell, I can understand more cap use, but if you are close range, it should have a tracking bonus...Make it worth 1200 per round for me to use T2 ammo. I guarantee if it was worth it, I would buy all of it up within 5 jumps of me.
OMG IF THEY DID WHAT YOU ASKED I WOULD LOVE YOU FOR THIS POST!!!!! |
Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.04.17 20:56:00 -
[24]
You do realise blaster taranis against battleships hasnt been really nerfed? Of course it can beat a sniper BS with armor rep drones. But these days it is just that every self respecting BS pilot who works solo takes a defense against small ships with him, pretty logical. |
Atsuko Yamamoto
The Nietzian Way
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Posted - 2009.04.18 00:40:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Renesis Maximus I think the biggest concerns for me are blasters and t2 ammo.
I guarantee if it was worth it, I would buy all of it up within 5 jumps of me.
This, T2 blaster ammo is el oh el. Cause I really want to further destroy my s****y tracking right? If that was taken out I'd be all over it with bbq sauce and beer.
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Qlanth
Caldari Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.04.18 00:55:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Qlanth on 18/04/2009 01:02:01
Originally by: Delnas Sapphire
Originally by: Wang Jing Edited by: Wang Jing on 17/04/2009 19:30:16
Originally by: Delnas Sapphire
Originally by: Wang Jing
Risk vs Reward
The sizeable rewards and the fact they are done with almost zero risk of loss completely imbalance all other ways to make isk in the game.
Like trading or manufacturing right
Oh wait.....
Theres plenty of ways to make money with 0 risk in this game and level 4 missions are probably the most inneficient way of doing it.
The difference is trading and manufacturing involve competition with other players, the so called market pvp. Missions do not. The same amount of isk is there for you to grind away at as much as you like.
But enough of this, lets talk about the important things, like 4th bonuses for assault frigates
The competition compensation in trading and manufacturing still takes LESS effort then level 4 missions and pays better. Currently level 4's take a lot of work to go through a decent amount.
Fact is l4's are fine and are as it stands one of the worst ways to make money among the succesful ways to make money in eve.
The fact is that running Level 4 missions in high-sec can net a player just as much money as ratting in 0.0 space. Players have very little reason to live in low-sec space and the ONLY reason to live in 0.0 space is if you are interested in large scale PvP.
People who believe that 0.0 earns a player ridiculous amounts of ISK are kidding themselves. You are safer and can make just as much ISK in high-sec nearly AFK running missions while watching YouTube videos and forum crawling.
There should be more risk involved. And if you think that ratting in 0.0 is "safer" than running missions in high-sec I invite you to come rat where I rat.
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Lady Aja
Caldari Demented Unity
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Posted - 2009.04.18 02:02:00 -
[27]
Originally by: TimMc Edited by: TimMc on 17/04/2009 16:30:15 ECM drones - Need to be dropped to 40% strength they are currently. Then make drone interfacing effect them.
Artillery - Slight clip size increase. Double alpha, nearly double the RoF to compensate.
Tempest - Needs another turret and fitting space for said turret.
Rockets - Need to be doing 2-3 times as much damage as they are now. Fittings should go up in reaction to this.
Blasters - Need an increase in tracking, perhaps 20-30%. See how that goes.
T2 Close range ammo - Need to do same damage as t1 close range, but have positive tracking bonus. Alternative option is for them to keep their horrible tracking deduction but increase cap usage and damage by 25%.
Level 4 missions - Need more level 4 and 5 agents in Nullsec. Need all agents in nullsec to be quality 20. Need all agents in low sec to be between 0 and 20. All agents in empire be between -20 and 0.
Assault frigates - Need a forth bonus. I vote another damage bonus.
you have not even remotely got a clue of what youre on about...
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Lady Aja
Caldari Demented Unity
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Posted - 2009.04.18 02:05:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Isabelle Sparks
Originally by: Delnas Sapphire Like trading or manufacturing right
Oh wait.....
Theres plenty of ways to make money with 0 risk in this game and level 4 missions are probably the most inneficient way of doing it.
Exactly. Leave the mission runners alone, they are already working to hard for their isk.
If anything missioning in low sec should be substantially buffed. TBH, I cannot think of too many things more dangerous actually. I mean ratting in your alliances 0.0 sovereign space is pretty freaking safe compared to missioning in low sec.
Speaking as a ex mission runner my self...
you are right to a point. but if youre alliance is in low sec and lives in and around a agent hub in low sec/0.0 its pretty dam safe if you use intel channels.
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Qlanth
Caldari Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.04.18 04:10:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Qlanth on 18/04/2009 04:13:28
Originally by: Lady Aja
Originally by: Isabelle Sparks
Originally by: Delnas Sapphire Like trading or manufacturing right
Oh wait.....
Theres plenty of ways to make money with 0 risk in this game and level 4 missions are probably the most inneficient way of doing it.
Exactly. Leave the mission runners alone, they are already working to hard for their isk.
If anything missioning in low sec should be substantially buffed. TBH, I cannot think of too many things more dangerous actually. I mean ratting in your alliances 0.0 sovereign space is pretty freaking safe compared to missioning in low sec.
Speaking as a ex mission runner my self...
you are right to a point. but if youre alliance is in low sec and lives in and around a agent hub in low sec/0.0 its pretty dam safe if you use intel channels.
Which relies solely on other people reporting hostiles in an intel channel. You will be extremely lucky to make half as much ISK an hour living in lowsec, and will probably make just as much ISK ratting in 0.0. Meanwhile a level 4 mission runner does not have to read any intel channels at all. He/She is free to sit happily in NPC police protected space lazily running missions.
What I am saying here is that to make ISK with ratting, exploring, w-spacing, or even mining (god forbid) you accept a certain risk. To make more money you have to go deeper and deeper into space where people can gradually hunt you out and more easily kill you.
With missions you can run Level 1 through 4 agents from the exact same system. You never have to take the risk of being killed except to the hands of the NPC rats. From level 1 to level 4 the amount of reward does not scale with the risk. You could even argue that it stays exactly the same.
Either move Level 4s and 5s to deeper space where you will have to accept a higher level of risk to reap your reward (what I am hoping for), or nerf the amount of reward you get from never leaving the safety of empire.
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Frits McDonal
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.04.18 05:05:00 -
[30]
hmm, how come it's so risk free to run missions in high sec? Was the concord response time removed?
But really, I don't think that any carebear would take their billion+ isk marauder to low sec just for your amusement.
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