Pages: [1] :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Seti Amal
Caldari
|
Posted - 2009.04.19 16:53:00 -
[1]
I've been trying to sort out a question for some time regarding the utility of T2 guns vs. Faction guns. Obviously T2 guns allow you to fire T2 Ammo, but currently we all know that is mostly broken.
What baffles me is the frequent comments, however, that faction guns (may?) do better raw DPS using non-T2 Ammo. Is this in fact true? Is it true accounting for such things as the various Specialization skills (which provide up to a 10% bonus only to T2 weapons), and if the specialization skill does push T2 over faction... at what level of skill?
Seti Says Bang. |
ZW Dewitt
|
Posted - 2009.04.19 16:59:00 -
[2]
T2: Better DPS at Spec III and above, cheaper Faction: Less cap use
|
Enden Assulu
Caldari Blood Money Inc. Blood Money Cartel
|
Posted - 2009.04.19 17:39:00 -
[3]
The long range T2 ammo is probably the reason to use T2 guns.
|
Ryusoath Orillian
Minmatar INDUSTIENCE
|
Posted - 2009.04.19 20:51:00 -
[4]
faction guns are too expensive to be used in pvp for anything other than a expensive joke epeen ship. t2 is cheaper and has equal damage at least, with access to t2 ammo types that despite being mostly sub-par, some of them are useful. barrage s on a wolf/jag for example is fine.
|
Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
|
Posted - 2009.04.19 21:22:00 -
[5]
Scroch on Pulse laser is very good.
|
Seti Amal
Caldari
|
Posted - 2009.04.20 03:53:00 -
[6]
Well, I'm asking for my Mission Kronos, so large rails, where low end faction isn't out of the question. I don't Pvp in anything bigger than a cruiser atm, the cheaper the better...
Speaking of, I need to get out and play this week Seti Says Bang. |
Joss Sparq
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
|
Posted - 2009.04.20 04:42:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Ryusoath Orillian faction guns are too expensive to be used in pvp for anything other than a expensive joke epeen ship.
Not entirely, I would argue.
New characters are starting with far less skill points now than previously - where as before you could practically start with small Tech II guns it now takes more time to get there, even with that 100% training speed bonus until 1.6M SP.
Futhermore, it isn't uncommon for players to introduce friends to the game and give them gobs of ISK to get started - I know I have been/have done.
Last I saw, keeping an eye on Contracts can allow you to pick up small faction guns fairly cheap and certainly enough to fit out a Frigate without too much trouble, my guess as to why is because people don't snap them up for fear of becoming a so-called comedy kill mail - and being self conscious about that is (in my opinion) silly if you really can afford to lose them ...
So if a new player wants increased performance in small ship PvP without first waiting for all the necessary skills for Tech II to train then they can have it, or at least something approaching it.
Provided they pay for it, which isn't impossible at all.
|
Nomakai Delateriel
Amarr Ammatar Free Corps
|
Posted - 2009.04.20 05:23:00 -
[8]
Short range faction ammo is pretty useless (exception, hail. Hail provides a different damage profile from faction EMP). Long range faction ammo is great. Barrage, Tremor, Aurora, Scorch, Null and Spike are all invaluable. While Barrage and Scorch get the most attention of these all 6 types deliver superior ranged damage and unique tactical utility. ______________________________________________ -My respect can not be won, only lost. It's given freely and only grudgingly withdrawn. |
Terianna Eri
Amarr Scrutari
|
Posted - 2009.04.20 05:50:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Nomakai Delateriel Short range faction ammo is pretty useless (exception, hail. Hail provides a different damage profile from faction EMP). Long range faction ammo is great. Barrage, Tremor, Aurora, Scorch, Null and Spike are all invaluable. While Barrage and Scorch get the most attention of these all 6 types deliver superior ranged damage and unique tactical utility.
I was really confused until I thought that perhaps you had confused Faction with T2? __________________________________
Originally by: CCP Whisper Boo hoo. Cry some more.
|
Wet Ferret
|
Posted - 2009.04.20 05:52:00 -
[10]
WTB faction Scorch
But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started. |
|
Terianna Eri
Amarr Scrutari
|
Posted - 2009.04.20 05:59:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Wet Ferret WTB faction Scorch
Faction Scorch (15% damage bonus)would do about 5.4% more DPS than T1 multifreq and 91.6% of the DPS of faction multifreq at 3 times the range. seems balanced __________________________________
Originally by: CCP Whisper Boo hoo. Cry some more.
|
Joss Sparq
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
|
Posted - 2009.04.20 06:04:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Joss Sparq on 20/04/2009 06:05:38
I'm pretty sure they have.
EDIT: mistaken Tech II and Faction.
|
xVx dreadnaught
Caldari D00M. Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2009.04.20 06:25:00 -
[13]
Factiom weapons have a lot less SP req, the fact that you don't have to learn Lrg hybrids 5 to fit Caldari navy 425's is why some people use them... almost T2 dmg with half the training (lazy rich bastids guns)
Also there less CPU and PG intense so yeah Low SP char that doesn't have there grid and processor skills maxed could make use of them.
But the most important factor for Factioned guns is they are a status symbol every time they hit someone it comes up the Dmg report...
Snobby Gits factioned gun hits you WRECKING for BLAH amount of Dmg!
(my apologies to any char out there named snobby git, was just using it as an example :D )
***Something Elite Written here*** |
Anane
Abaim Technologies
|
Posted - 2009.04.20 06:42:00 -
[14]
btw.. new characters might not start out with many SP but they do gain double till 1.6 so they basically have the same amount... its just because CCP wanted people to be more spec based rather than broad when they started
|
Joss Sparq
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
|
Posted - 2009.04.20 07:08:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Anane btw.. new characters might not start out with many SP but they do gain double till 1.6 so they basically have the same amount... its just because CCP wanted people to be more spec based rather than broad when they started
Previously (and has already been noted) all a new character could need to train was the specialization skill to get Tech II small (racial) turrets - emphasis on previously.
Training one skill one level is different to cranking racial small turret up to V and the specialization skill one level, even with the new training acceleration mechanic (I think) and besides, not everyone is under 1.6M SP anyway.
Anyway, the incentive is that Faction turrets allow players to sidestep a portion of training - both martial and for fitting - for roughly comparable firepower.
|
Xapharia
WOLIMAZO INC
|
Posted - 2009.04.20 07:15:00 -
[16]
Originally by: ZW Dewitt T2: Better DPS at Spec III and above, cheaper Faction: Less cap use
Easier to fit faction items too. Sometimes you might not have the PG/CPU for that full rack of T2 guns. _________________________
Originally by: CCP Whisper Boo hoo. Cry some more.
|
Lego Maniac
Minmatar Dusty Death Enterprise Libertas Fidelitas
|
Posted - 2009.04.20 07:31:00 -
[17]
fraction turrents are superior
|
Dr Fighter
|
Posted - 2009.04.20 10:15:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Lego Maniac fraction turrents are superior
only when fitted to the scorpian
|
Wet Ferret
|
Posted - 2009.04.20 11:06:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Dr Fighter
Originally by: Lego Maniac fraction turrents are superior
only when fitted to the scorpian
Scorpian, the ECM battleship used by Caldarians?
But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started. |
Leo solunar
ARCHiTEK MAKINA
|
Posted - 2009.04.20 11:52:00 -
[20]
I LIKE MY T2 AMMO - depending on the situation I'm in, but still, I LIKE IT!
|
|
Leo solunar
ARCHiTEK MAKINA
|
Posted - 2009.04.20 11:53:00 -
[21]
I LIKE MY T2 AMMO - depending on the situation I'm in, but still, I LIKE IT!
|
Leo solunar
ARCHiTEK MAKINA
|
Posted - 2009.04.20 11:59:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Leo solunar on 20/04/2009 12:00:49 Triple post - I like my t2 ammo, but not as much to do a triple post on purpose :(
|
Arazel Chainfire
Dissolution Of Eternity Ethikos Trade Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.04.20 17:03:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Seti Amal Well, I'm asking for my Mission Kronos, so large rails, where low end faction isn't out of the question. I don't Pvp in anything bigger than a cruiser atm, the cheaper the better...
As a former Kronos user, I checked all this out to see what would help me the most. I discovered that with rail spec 4, only the officer (and not even all of them) did more damage than t2 rails. With rail spec 5, only the higher end officer guns did more damage than t2 rails. And to top all that, t2 rails allow you to use spike, which provides more damage than anything else past about 70km or so, with antimatter killing out to around 40 and uranium out to around 60. If you don't have large hybrid 5 yet, yeah, go for faction rails. If you do have t2 large rails though, you really can't get better performance out of a faction gun than you can out of t2 as long as you get more than spec 1.
-Arazel
Originally by: Tsanse Kinske
Mutual Incomprehension is one of the Four Horsemen of most internet arguments, I guess, along with Unfettered Hostility, Overwhelming Vagueness, and Lack of Evidence.
|
DuttyDan
|
Posted - 2009.04.22 04:03:00 -
[24]
Basically th t2 long range ammo for arties/bems/railguns is awsome but gleam etc are too bad, also scorch/barrage/null is awsome.
But if your going in at close range every time and goign to be using closest range ammo, and can afford it, fit faction as u get higher dps. never use t2 close range ammo in most cases as the negatives are quite bad, usually speed or cap penalties. use faction close range ammo.
T2 ammo needs fixing in some cases
|
Zill
The Scope
|
Posted - 2009.04.22 06:11:00 -
[25]
I use faction/Navy guns religiously. Navy costs basicly nothing, specialy when like me, you use Nightmare which is murder to cap balance. TO show what the diferences are....
My Nightmare with T2 guns would be down to 1 m cap Navy guys make it 5m an I am running full Complex mods as well.I dont see the point in T2 except for the level 4 dmg boost, but it's hardly "required"
|
Sanzorz
Amarr Mark Of Chaos
|
Posted - 2009.04.22 07:35:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Zill I use faction/Navy guns religiously. Navy costs basicly nothing, specialy when like me, you use Nightmare which is murder to cap balance. TO show what the diferences are....
My Nightmare with T2 guns would be down to 1 m cap Navy guys make it 5m an I am running full Complex mods as well.I dont see the point in T2 except for the level 4 dmg boost, but it's hardly "required"
Fully agree. Faction guns for PVE fittings to save cap is great compared the cookie cutter t2 weapons. Less cap used and less skills needed for Tachyons on a Nightmare fitting is just too damn great and you don't really need any kind of t2 ammo for this. |
Terianna Eri
Amarr Scrutari
|
Posted - 2009.04.22 09:35:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Sanzorz Fully agree. Faction guns for PVE fittings to save cap is great compared the cookie cutter t2 weapons. Less cap used and less skills needed for Tachyons on a Nightmare fitting is just too damn great and you don't really need any kind of t2 ammo for this.
Disagree, I run T2 Tachs on my Paladin and while people have recommended faction tachs, there's a couple reasons why I never went for them. a) Lower damage output. Self-explanatory, really. b) Lower cap use is unnecessary; by the time I've got my cap use that low, pretty much everything is dead, and that's with 2x CR and 1 CCC so it's not like I'm overboard on cap use. c) Aurora is handy to have. Particularly for things like stage 1 on Worlds Collide. d) Price / increased risk of suicide ganking: speaks for itself really, especially if (like me) you don't see a tangible benefit to fitting faction tachs even if they cost the same as T2.
Although I could just be spewing irrelevant stuff since I guess the Nightmare is probably a lot less cap-stable than the Paladin. |
|
|
|
Pages: [1] :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |