EVE Search - The "Close Range Turrets" Thread

All Channels

Ships and Modules

The "Close Range Turrets" Thread

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Trader20	Posted - 2009.04.20 19:23:00 - [1] Edited by: Trader20 on 20/04/2009 19:23:45 Since the last blaster vs pulse thread got derailed I want to start a new civilized thread on the close range weapons system of Eve Online. The weapons that will be compared in this thread are, Auto Cannons, Pulse lasors, and Blasters. Torps will be discussed in another thread. Now if you are posting please keep in mind that we are talking about pvp gang combat, PvE is another thread. Please refrain from insults and be respectful. Here are some topics you can cover in your post. You don't have to mention all of them I'm just trying to give you some ideas. A. Why a certain turret needs a buff/nerf B. Solutions to fix a certain turret C. Personal Experiences D. Reason why a certain turret in overuse/underused.
Liang Nuren No Salvation PuPPet MasTers	Posted - 2009.04.20 21:01:00 - [2] Quote: A. Why a certain turret needs a buff/nerf Pulse lasers need boosted because they have horrible tracking and can't hit cruisers very well at 1.5km, also it's terrible to do 100% EM damage because EM damage sucks. It's always the highest resist on every ship. Quote: B. Solutions to fix a certain turret They need much higher tracking because they're so gimped up close. Quote: C. Personal Experiences There was this time I was shooting at a Tempest and I just couldn't kill him with my pulse lasers. He would orbit near, and then orbit far, and ... and then he... THEN HE KILLED ME!! ::sob:: Quote: D. Reason why a certain turret in overuse/underused. Pulse lasers are underused and never recommended because they're complete crap because they can't track up close and they do 100% EM damage and we all know EM damage sucks because it's always the highest resist on every ship. -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org
Deschenus Maximus Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2009.04.20 21:29:00 - [3] Originally by: Trader20 A. Why a certain turret needs a buff/nerf -Blasters need buffing because the web nerf basically gave them a 400% tracking nerf. -ACs (large) need a boost because their damage is currently lackluster, which is exacerbated by the fact that they usually operate in deep falloff. Originally by: Trader20 B. Solutions to fix a certain turret -Blasters go from short optimal, medium-short falloff to equal optimal and falloff so that they get better radian/s tracking at their max optimal. Null becomes a tad more useful as well. -Large ACs just get a plain damage boost. Originally by: Trader20 C. Personal Experiences -Blasters were fine pre-web nerf. Not overpowered at all. Now you need web (if not dual web) + scram to get quality hits. -I don't have much experience with large ACs, but I do have extensive experience with mediums. The mediocre damage is acceptable on cruisers however because the speed of the ships makes up for it. BS are, however not fast. Not fast at all. Originally by: Trader20 D. Reason why a certain turret in overuse/underused. -Lasers are currently overused because the current metagame favors them considerably. That being said, I really don't want to see them nerfed when boosting blasters and ACs is possible. My Amarr BS V and large T2 pulse spec has nothing to do with my PoV cough
Gregorian Tarkenoff	Posted - 2009.04.20 21:31:00 - [4] Originally by: Trader20 Edited by: Trader20 on 20/04/2009 19:23:45 Since the last blaster vs pulse thread got derailed I want to start a new civilized thread on the close range weapons system of Eve Online. The weapons that will be compared in this thread are, Auto Cannons, Pulse lasors, and Blasters. Torps will be discussed in another thread. Now if you are posting please keep in mind that we are talking about pvp gang combat, PvE is another thread. Please refrain from insults and be respectful. Here are some topics you can cover in your post. You don't have to mention all of them I'm just trying to give you some ideas. A. Why a certain turret needs a buff/nerf B. Solutions to fix a certain turret C. Personal Experiences D. Reason why a certain turret in overuse/underused. I would like to give a very noobish perspective. I'm trying to factor in the overall ship in figuring out what to fly, but Turrets/Launchers are a big part of it. A. Why a certain turret needs a buff/nerf I think that Projectile Turrets are fairly underpowered. Even though they do not use capacitor, I think that they are open to too much Electronic Warfare. ECM/Tracking Disruptors come to mind. DPS wise, I do not think that they're up to snuff, given the overall ship factors. Speed is about all the Minmatar ships have. Due to what I thinnnnnnnnk is the popularity of HAC's ingame, especially regarding Gang PVP, I will use them for reference. From my noobish perspective, I am looking at the following when trying to decide what to fly, and went with Deadspace/Faction Mods: 1. Tank Cerberus seems to be the best overall tank amongst HAC's. 295 Omni Tank. 2. Sustained DPS Cerberus 568 @ 40 yards Zealot 605 @ 11+5 Deimos 830 @ 3.4+4.7 including 5 Hammerhead II Drones Muninn 732 @ 2.3+5 and 5 Hobgoblin II's, includes 5 Turrets, and 2 HAM's (Would need max Gunnery & Missiles) 3. Drones and being able to adapt with them. Cerberus-0 Zealot-0 Deimos-50m3 means great versatility Muninn-25m3 Pretty much means 5 Light Drones Ishtar-Yowzas 4. Speed/Agility The HAC's more or less seem close to equal to me. B. Solutions to fix a certain turret Projectile Ammo does more DPS? C. Personal Experiences Theorycrafter Only D. Reason why a certain turret in overuse/underused. I have no data on this. From reading the boards, it seems like many people use the Gallente Ships for Gang PVP. I guess I've put all of this in here because any advice would be appreciated, and this is a perfect opportunity for people to point out flaws in my thinking. Thanks!
Opertone Caldari Internal Anarchy	Posted - 2009.04.20 21:34:00 - [5] medium and small autocannons and large blasters are the best!
el caido School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2009.04.20 21:34:00 - [6] Pulse are fine. Autos are fine. Blasters need a substantial damage and/or tracking boost.
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2009.04.20 21:38:00 - [7] Originally by: el caido Pulse are fine. Autos are fine. Blasters need a substantial damage and/or tracking boost. You sir, have never seen a damage vs range graph of autocannons compared to pulse lasers.
Grek Forto Malevolent Intentions Dark Solar Empire	Posted - 2009.04.20 21:45:00 - [8] Originally by: el caido Autos are fine. BACKWARDS! points Originally by: Stitcher It's "Caldari", not "Caldarians". One Caldari, three Caldari, all the Caldari are doing Caldari things using Caldari tools in a Caldari way.
Prez21 coracao ardente Triumvirate.	Posted - 2009.04.20 21:57:00 - [9] Originally by: el caido Pulse are fine. Autos are fine. Blasters need a substantial damage and/or tracking boost. This is the problems with these types of threads, too many people who dont actualy have any idea what there talking about just come here trying to boost there preferred turret type without any understand about how the turrets compare. How can you say autocannons are fine but blasters need a tracking or dmg boost, when they track better and do more dmg then autocannons, especialy when used on a mega with its tracking bonus? I think blasters are ok and perform the job they was designed to do very well, which is deal high dmg at close ranges, unfortunatly they are getting alittle overshadowed by the fact that pulses put out almost as much dps but at ranges which are more suited to todays pvp. I would also like to see improved tracking on autocannons so minmatar ships could hit better when traveling at high speeds and actualy make use of there speed advantages, there isnt much point in going fast if you cant hit anything.
Phantasms Shadow	Posted - 2009.04.20 22:06:00 - [10] As this is about close range weapons, could rockets be included? Maybe with the torp thread? Thanks
Larkonis TrassIer Neo Spartans Laconian Syndicate	Posted - 2009.04.20 22:20:00 - [11] Originally by: Liang Nuren Quote: A. Why a certain turret needs a buff/nerf Pulse lasers need boosted because they have horrible tracking and can't hit cruisers very well at 1.5km, also it's terrible to do 100% EM damage because EM damage sucks. It's always the highest resist on every ship. Fit a web or engage them from further away, that's why pulses have good range. Lazors do amazing raw DPS and with the recent EM armour nerf there's no better time to be flying amarr. Quote: Quote: B. Solutions to fix a certain turret They need much higher tracking because they're so gimped up close. Keep range. Quote: Quote: C. Personal Experiences There was this time I was shooting at a Tempest and I just couldn't kill him with my pulse lasers. He would orbit near, and then orbit far, and ... and then he... THEN HE KILLED ME!! ::sob:: Terrible Amarr BS pilot having his ship's weaknesses exploited by a good Tempest pilot. Quote: Quote: D. Reason why a certain turret in overuse/underused. Pulse lasers are underused and never recommended because they're complete crap because they can't track up close and they do 100% EM damage and we all know EM damage sucks because it's always the highest resist on every ship. -Liang Ok I know you're trolling now.
Liang Nuren No Salvation PuPPet MasTers	Posted - 2009.04.20 22:23:00 - [12] Originally by: Larkonis TrassIer Fit a web or engage them from further away, that's why pulses have good range. Lazors do amazing raw DPS and with the recent EM armour nerf there's no better time to be flying amarr. But Amarr ships have no mids how am I supposed to fit all my cap boosters AND a web, let alone a MWD!! Quote: Keep range. But my quad plated trimarked triple HS Geddon can't keep range, and I can't hit up close either. Obviously this is unfair and I should be able to hit for full damage too. Quote: Terrible Amarr BS pilot having his ship's weaknesses exploited by a good Tempest pilot. It's unpossible I say it's because EM damage sucks so bad that you can't kill a frigate with it. Quote: Ok I know you're trolling now. ORLY? -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org
Trader20	Posted - 2009.04.20 22:25:00 - [13] Originally by: Prez21 Originally by: el caido Pulse are fine. Autos are fine. Blasters need a substantial damage and/or tracking boost. This is the problems with these types of threads, too many people who dont actualy have any idea what there talking about just come here trying to boost there preferred turret type without any understand about how the turrets compare. How can you say autocannons are fine but blasters need a tracking or dmg boost, when they track better and do more dmg then autocannons, especialy when used on a mega with its tracking bonus? I think blasters are ok and perform the job they was designed to do very well, which is deal high dmg at close ranges, unfortunatly they are getting alittle overshadowed by the fact that pulses put out almost as much dps but at ranges which are more suited to todays pvp. I would also like to see improved tracking on autocannons so minmatar ships could hit better when traveling at high speeds and actualy make use of there speed advantages, there isnt much point in going fast if you cant hit anything. I never understood why a/c track simular to blasters when Min ships are supposed to be the high velocity orbiting race and Gal ships are supposed to be dual web and approach race. A/C T2 ammo really needs a boost to tracking speed to fit Min ship playstyle. Is the capless turret and awsome damage type expl/kin worth the damage reduction you get when fighting in falloff? I only fight in falloff when fighting blaster ships because I need to avoid their optimal but when fighting pulse ships I mwd to 0km and fight in optimal because you can't really stay out of a pulse apocs optimal while dealing damage with A/C.
Wideen Warped Mining Strip Mining Club	Posted - 2009.04.20 22:30:00 - [14] if rocket launcher were a turret it'd need boosting
Trader20	Posted - 2009.04.20 22:31:00 - [15] What about this crazy idea for blasters. For T2 ammo a reduction in mwd cap usage or boost in mwd speed. This would give blaster boats the ability to get into range without burning all it's cap/boosters but it would still make blasters the close range, high damage turrets. Just like javelin nerfs your speed, void would boost your speed or reduce you mwd cap usage.
Wideen Warped Mining Strip Mining Club	Posted - 2009.04.20 22:39:00 - [16] Originally by: Trader20 What about this crazy idea for blasters. For T2 ammo a reduction in mwd cap usage or boost in mwd speed. This would give blaster boats the ability to get into range without burning all it's cap/boosters but it would still make blasters the close range, high damage turrets. Just like javelin nerfs your speed, void would boost your speed or reduce you mwd cap usage. lol a REAL bonus on t2 ammo? that's unheard of mate.. then I want a jump drive bonus for Gleam, because it's that bad
Warrio GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.04.20 23:19:00 - [17] Edited by: Warrio on 20/04/2009 23:21:06 Originally by: Trader20 lasors So Trader20 is an alt for someone who wanted to have a whine about pulse lasors but didn't want to be seen to be starting a "whine thread". Also ITT: Liang catches many of the unsuspecting in her troll net. sXe
Liang Nuren No Salvation PuPPet MasTers	Posted - 2009.04.20 23:31:00 - [18] Originally by: Warrio So Trader20 is an alt for someone who wanted to have a whine about pulse lasors but didn't want to be seen to be starting a "whine thread". Yeah, that was my interpretation too. Quote: Also ITT: Liang catches many of the unsuspecting in her troll net. Yeah, I thought about posting a definition of troll, but elected against it. Instead, I figured I could throw up most of the Pro-Pulse laser arguments up and show how ridiculous they look (a bit of a straw man really... the arguments are slightly more compelling. Slightly.) -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org
Trader20	Posted - 2009.04.20 23:42:00 - [19] Edited by: Trader20 on 20/04/2009 23:44:38 Liang any reason you and ur alt are derailin a productive thread or are you just bitter about something and feel like ruining this thread? Also COAD is that way if you want to defend your subpar alliance........
Trader20	Posted - 2009.04.20 23:49:00 - [20] Originally by: Warrio Edited by: Warrio on 20/04/2009 23:21:06 Originally by: Trader20 lasors So Trader20 is an alt for someone who wanted to have a whine about pulse lasors but didn't want to be seen to be starting a "whine thread". Also ITT: Liang catches many of the unsuspecting in her troll net. Do you see any whine about lasers (sorry for the prevoius spelling). If you think pulse lasers are balanced then please post in this thread and explain to us. I thank you for you productive comments but your trolling is unwelcomed.
Sidus Isaacs Gallente	Posted - 2009.04.20 23:53:00 - [21] Originally by: Liang Nuren Quote: A. Why a certain turret needs a buff/nerf Pulse lasers need boosted because they have horrible tracking and can't hit cruisers very well at 1.5km, also it's terrible to do 100% EM damage because EM damage sucks. It's always the highest resist on every ship. Quote: B. Solutions to fix a certain turret They need much higher tracking because they're so gimped up close. Quote: C. Personal Experiences There was this time I was shooting at a Tempest and I just couldn't kill him with my pulse lasers. He would orbit near, and then orbit far, and ... and then he... THEN HE KILLED ME!! ::sob:: Quote: D. Reason why a certain turret in overuse/underused. Pulse lasers are underused and never recommended because they're complete crap because they can't track up close and they do 100% EM damage and we all know EM damage sucks because it's always the highest resist on every ship. -Liang Hint: Amarr lasers are medium to long range. And they are just fine. Or are you trying to be sarcastic?
Kingwood Amarr Defile.	Posted - 2009.04.20 23:56:00 - [22] Edited by: Kingwood on 20/04/2009 23:56:42 Stealth laser whine detected. How'd that whining about the Falcon nerf work out for you, btw? Unsubbed your Falcon alt yet?
Trader20	Posted - 2009.04.20 23:59:00 - [23] Originally by: Wideen Originally by: Trader20 What about this crazy idea for blasters. For T2 ammo a reduction in mwd cap usage or boost in mwd speed. This would give blaster boats the ability to get into range without burning all it's cap/boosters but it would still make blasters the close range, high damage turrets. Just like javelin nerfs your speed, void would boost your speed or reduce you mwd cap usage. lol a REAL bonus on t2 ammo? that's unheard of mate.. then I want a jump drive bonus for Gleam, because it's that bad Well I tried a little deductive logic to solve that problem. The problem with blasters is range, so to reduce that problem you can either A. Close the gap faster Example: Mwd bonus to speed or cap (this will help on plated blaster ships) B. More range Example: Buff blaster optimal or falloff Blaster tracking to me isn't that important because its playstyle is.....mwd in, dual web, unload,..... so tracking isn't an issue when your target is dual webbed. So if it is easier to get into range, then blasters would be much more popular. So thats where I came up with a bonus to speed.
Trader20	Posted - 2009.04.21 00:02:00 - [24] Originally by: Kingwood Edited by: Kingwood on 20/04/2009 23:56:42 Lasers need to be nerfed Good point on how lasers are op, thanks for your imput.
Kingwood Amarr Defile.	Posted - 2009.04.21 00:03:00 - [25] Originally by: Trader20 Originally by: Kingwood Edited by: Kingwood on 20/04/2009 23:56:42 Lasers need to be nerfed Good point on how lasers are op, thanks for your imput. I think this is the point where I just chuckle politely, call you a ******, and leave this thread to die.
Tara Wilde	Posted - 2009.04.21 00:10:00 - [26] Edited by: Tara Wilde on 21/04/2009 00:11:10 Trader20 made a very good post. pulse lasers are overpowered. When I fit them on my Omen i fear nothing. it pains me to say this (i am amarr, as u can see) but pulse lasers denitievely need a nerf. Trader20, if you are running for Csm i will vote for you so you can push this DEFINITELY needed change through. kisses, Tara
Tara Wilde	Posted - 2009.04.21 00:16:00 - [27] I need only 5 seconds to kill the computer pirates attacking when i mine. Ant this is with only 3 pulse lasers fitted, the rest are miners. so yes, everybody please take this thread seriousl y so we can look for solutions to the pulse laser problem. they are too strong, and unbalance the game. If i could I would choose another race to play as, because in real life i give money to the have-nots too, and i dont want to be called the "good looking girl who chose Amarr because she wants to be sure to win"
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2009.04.21 00:43:00 - [28] One thing I don't get about this turret whining... People complain about tracking, because they get close and can't hit anything. Judging by the market history and general forum consensus I've seen, I'd have to blame this on the fact that everyone uses the absolute closest range ammo. If you're fitting blasters, you fit Fed. Navy Antimatter. If you're fitting autos, you fit RF EMP (If you're getting close) or Hail. There's a built-in way to improve your tracking: stop orbiting so close, pick some slightly longer ranged ammo.
Deschenus Maximus Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2009.04.21 01:25:00 - [29] Originally by: Kahega Amielden If you're fitting blasters, you fit Fed. Navy Antimatter. If you're fitting autos, you fit RF EMP (If you're getting close) or Hail. There's a built-in way to improve your tracking: stop orbiting so close, pick some slightly longer ranged ammo. Not gonna make a whole lot of difference on blasters and autos, considering their ridiculously short optimals.
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2009.04.21 01:27:00 - [30] Quote: Not gonna make a whole lot of difference on blasters and autos, considering their ridiculously short optimals. If you're fighting in optimal, then it matters a great deal...and I've never really heard of people having tracking issues well into falloff...and if they do: target painters or tracking computers.

Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.