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OilSlick Rick
Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2009.04.24 20:32:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Brixer This issue has been brought up several times and only thing people can seem to agree on is that afk cloakers, sitting cloaked in systems for hours while not at the keyboard is bad design. By doing this, cloakers inflict losses on other players while not playing the game themselves. 1001 solutions to this 'problem' has been presented, but none good enough to make CCP do any changes.
I lean towards a solution where your cloak have a set cycle. 1 hour? If you're afk longer than that you aren't really anywhere near the computer, are you? To reset the timer you just have to hit decloak and cloak right up again. And if there is a slight chance you have to stay away longer than that, just log off.
Better to just have the game auto log everyone off that is afk for an hour.
LOTRO logs me off after 30 minutes of inactivity. It would free up resources on their system but then their nice log-in numbers (epeen) would go down :p
BTW: How in the hell does an afk cloaker inflict losses to other players?
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Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2009.04.24 20:57:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Brixer This issue has been brought up several times and only thing people can seem to agree on is that afk cloakers, sitting cloaked in systems for hours while not at the keyboard is bad design. By doing this, cloakers inflict losses on other players while not playing the game themselves.
How exactly does this happen? Have I been missing out on afk kills all this time?
Originally by: Brixer I lean towards a solution where your cloak have a set cycle. 1 hour? If you're afk longer than that you aren't really anywhere near the computer, are you? To reset the timer you just have to hit decloak and cloak right up again. And if there is a slight chance you have to stay away longer than that, just log off.
That idea's about as clever as the first. You sir, are a genius.
Regards Mag |
Feilamya
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.04.24 21:51:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Brixer This issue has been brought up several times and only thing people can seem to agree on is that afk cloakers, sitting cloaked in systems for hours while not at the keyboard is bad design.
Just make cloakers invisible in local, so they can't scare anyone while they are AFK.
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Lazarion
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Posted - 2009.04.24 22:17:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Feilamya Just make cloakers invisible in local, so they can't scare anyone while they are AFK.
Ha ha ha - I would definitely support this. It could be made like alliance chat - cloaked pilots only show up in local if they say something, which would mean that a covert scout could *truly* fly undetected (and therefor without scaring the natives), but could also jump into the conversation if he or she wanted to (probably to scare the natives).
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Illectroculus Defined
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Posted - 2009.04.25 00:37:00 -
[35]
Think of it in terms of naval warfare, cloaked ships are like submarines, specially setup to be as quiet as possible, they use passive sonar so that they don't give any clue to their position.
But if another ship generates an active sonar pulse it bounces off them and they're located, but the ship generating the pulse is even more visible.
So, create a special set of probes for scanning down cloaked ships, and while this is active it's like a giant beacon in local that everyone can see and warp to. So, if you're cloaked it's totally obvious they're scanning for you, and where they are.
Scanning a cloaked ship down will be only semi accurate, so you shouldn't arrive within the usual 10km from target.
Once on grid ships would the same active scanning device 100km range and tells you how many cloaked signatures there are and how far you are from them so you can track down and decloak ships once on grid.
It would still be darned hard to scan down cloaked ships, but those ships would have plenty of warning.
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Avion Saberis
Gallente Zodiac Guardians GARDIAN ALLIANCE
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Posted - 2009.04.25 03:14:00 -
[36]
i know i've said stuff in this early, but if afk cloaking is really that bad, why not jsut get a sb out there, if it's null sec, and tell thsi in local, cause if the guys afk it won't matter, that your bombing this belt so stay clear. With this your more the likely to find the afk cloaker, also go to planets too. stations is a another thing, but over all bombing the crap out of everything, just to look for one afk cloaker and to make him realize that he needs to log off, from time to time, is usually the best idea, cause if you kill his ship with the bomb, leave his pod so someone can pod kill him if they want. it's evil, but it should work for all the carebears, or if ya just want to be a ****. lol -------------------------------------------
I like to hide, then when the right moment comes, i go pew, pew, pew, then i go back to hiding, :) |
Yahrr
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Posted - 2009.04.25 15:14:00 -
[37]
Something else came to my mind... I'm a big fan of flying cloaked ships, especially when jumping gate camps :D
Now my eve buddy has his computer 3m away from mine in RL, so I got to test my newest cloaker and see the effect on both screens. It appears that after activating cloak I am still on the overview for quite long. This while I see myself as totally cloaked already. I can understand it tho, as a cloak has some enter-cloak time, but the timing is just totally off.
Also covert op cloaks have the option to warp cloaked, but if I try to activate my cloak while I'm still in the after-jump-cloak-modus I get the message that I can't activate my cloak because I'm cloaked. For a normal cloak I can get to this, but a covert ops ship is build around the cloak, and is there to cloak (according to the description..).
3rd, When cloaked I'm still in local... I can get to that too as everyone is in local chat. But with the creation of wormhole space CCP gave us a few hints to how local chat works. It works by a central message beacon (in game hehehe, not in code). So when I cloak, I should go into delayed chat mode as the beacon cannot find my sig anymore.
You shouldn't be so afraid of cloakers btw. When you don't see them they can't do damage. When you can see them and put your drones on it or lock the cloaker, it can't enter cloak anymore.
I know, I know, my post lists 3 possible buffs to cloakers in the anti-cloak thread.
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Formosus Funus
Temptation. The Church.
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Posted - 2009.04.25 16:43:00 -
[38]
There's a lot of good idea's however there's still one major thing which seems to be forgotten dangerously often;
Ships designed to cloak, namely Covert Ops, Stealth Bombers, Recons, Black Ops and those T2 haulers should not be able to be probed out, have to 'reset' their cloak timer, have to run out of 'cloak fuel' or whatever. There goes a lot of training in these things, they're huge ISK sinks and are actually quite vulnerable. Those things just cant engage in any circumstance, you might have to roam for hours untill you find a suitable target in a suitable area.
If there's a cloaker in your system and you're nowhere near a HQ, that sucks. However whether there's a non-cloaked ship zooming around trough your system whole day long between safespots (too fast to be probed) or a cloaked ship sitting somewhere preventing you from carebearing doesnt change the fact you're on your own and cant do a lot more than get safe, maybe sit closer to more populated and friendly space next time. Because lets be honest, in the end a Recon ship is just a cruiser sized ship which has a limited use which has to use its special abilities to the max to make it actually kill something. If you're in a well populated area a Recon ship is not able to kill you fast enough before eventual corp/alliance mates came to rescue. If they dont (come on time), I'd rather start wondering if you're in the right corp/alliance instead.
Im 100% fine with ships who are not designed to cloak that they've a 99AU decloak radius, use 60B of Hydrogen/hour to stay cloaked, and have 1000% of their original signature radius when cloaked, I dont care. But dont touch and moan over a completely specialized type of ships.
That's the same thing as asking if all HAC's wont be able to fit any propulsion mod anymore cause it's annoying they're so agile while either fighting or running Seriously, think about what you're suggesting next time instead of trying to kill a complete specialization tree And about logging etc, I'd rather have a guy cloaked all day in my system AFK then have him logged in a DPS HAC and all of a sudden log on again and gank someone, or is that just me now?
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Cracken
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.04.25 18:09:00 -
[39]
How about no!!!
That in essence would make having a cloaking device useless go die in a fire.
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Derus Grobb
Selectus Pravus Lupus
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Posted - 2009.04.26 16:47:00 -
[40]
Once local gets removed you won't know they're there anyway, so who cares? ---
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Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.04.26 17:12:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Cracken How about no!!!
That in essence would make having a cloaking device useless go die in a fire.
Aye. If you can scan a cloaked ship, you might as well remove cloaks.
Cloaks have never been a problem, I don't get the whining about it. Any ships not desinged for them get penalties, and have to give up a high slot. Not viable in PvP imo.
"boo hoo, I can't kill that ratting Raven since he cloaked, and I don't dare to actually engage another target then a ratting Raven" is what these whines boil down to. Silly imo.
Want to kill that Raven, sneaks up on him with a Recon then.
he cloaked the instance you entred loacl? Well, he don't want to fight and if you could probe cloaker, hed just log of.
Solves nothing, not that there is anyhting to solve.
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http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
SkyWARN
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Posted - 2009.04.26 17:38:00 -
[42]
if you honestly feel the need to make yet another thread on being able to find cloaked ships, and your gaming experience is being ruined that much, i would suggest a new MMO for you.
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Feilamya
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.04.26 22:48:00 -
[43]
Nerfing AFK cloakers would be no good idea, because once they have been nerfed, players will start whining about cloakers who are not AFK.
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SDragoon
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Posted - 2009.04.27 08:52:00 -
[44]
Or you could just remove local and then you'd never have to worry about having to stay docked up for hours on end to feel safe from the afk cloaker.
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Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
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Posted - 2009.04.27 11:37:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Shana Lioni
Originally by: Brixer I lean towards a solution where your cloak have a set cycle. 1 hour? If you're afk longer than that you aren't really anywhere near the computer, are you? To reset the timer you just have to hit decloak and cloak right up again. And if there is a slight chance you have to stay away longer than that, just log off.
By far the most sensible solution I have heard. I hope CCP considers this.
It is indeed a bad idea, lots of times, people spend more than 1 hour keeping eyes on hostile activities. They can be seen in local true, but having to de-cloak and reveal to the people you are spying on that you are truly spying on them, and not just some AFK cloaky, is a devastating tactical action to be forced to make.
Instead tho, just introduce "Cloak-finder Scan Probes" and set the scan-time to whatever long time can be agreed upon as being fair trade of between, spying-lenght-of-time contra being a 23/7 macro-ratter.
Probes with 2 hours of scan time seem like a reasonable balance to me. Would alllow to get rid of the worst AFK macro ratters, and still allow some wiggle-room in terms of avoiding being found if you're doing the spying game.
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Terra Mikael
SRIUS BISNIS
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Posted - 2009.05.02 01:47:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Brixer This issue has been brought up several times and only thing people can seem to agree on is that afk cloakers, sitting cloaked in systems for hours while not at the keyboard is bad design. By doing this, cloakers inflict losses on other players while not playing the game themselves.
Those darn afk cloakers and their psychological damage they does to us. darn them to heck. ________________________________
Originally by: Lone Gunman Yes overpowered would be giving a ship with the Covert ops cloak the ability to fire say..Torpedos, now that would be overpowered. But CCP would |
Targor Avelany
Mnemonic Group Inc.
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Posted - 2009.05.02 02:51:00 -
[47]
I don't agree.. That is making the warfare more realistic. Psychological pressure is also a part of war.. just deal with it. If you are afraid of cloakers maybe you should make your defence better or stay in high sec.
I don't think that clokers should be probbed.
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Hexor V
I.M.M Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2009.05.02 05:17:00 -
[48]
I like the idea of an aoe pulse that decloaks cloakers within a small range. (larger than smartbombs). I doubt it has use though with current game mechanics relying on cloakers getting up and in there for fleet warp ins.
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Expendable Pilot
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Posted - 2009.05.02 05:27:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Mad0ne 1. Make cloaking devices to emit faint signals that slowly fades and wont be detected after 7 AU-s. 2. Give us probes that could pinpoint those signals. 3. Give covert ops a module that can pulse out some kind of electronical particles which could decloak everything in 7000 m radius.
Would be another cool use of coverts than only scanning down plexes and wh-s.
But... I like that I can't be found while cloaked. That's the whole point. In fact, I'm cloaked right now, confident no one will ever find me. In a rookie ship. Because I can.
On a more serious note... There should be some mechanic in place to ferret out cloaked ships. There's nothing that's going to ever make it easier to track down a smart pilot who is constantly on the move cloaked or uncloaked, however I'd like to see the possibility (no matter how remote) of finding a cloaked target. There are a few circumstances where a cloaked ship creates an uncounterable situation which can be detrimental. Advantages are fine, but as it stands there is absolutely no chance of finding someone cloaked if they're even remotely careful.
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Baldegar
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Posted - 2009.05.03 10:11:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Arin Soon
Originally by: Griko Kinchala Yeah.. but in any Sci-Fi film...
cloakers are invisible, and never show up on scanners!
Would break from convention too much for my liking
heh ya but in all sci-fi movies/shows you can visually see the cloak distortion. maybe add that so you can see the pesky cloakers if you happen to look in their direction...
Have you ever seen Star Trek, maybe the most known sci-fi series on earth? I guess not...
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Alka Heronic
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Posted - 2009.05.03 16:08:00 -
[51]
Of course a cloaked ship should NOT be able to be found.
Thats the whole point of the cloak in the first place. Besides to do anything it needs to unlcoak anyway.
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FU22
Beyond Transcendence
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Posted - 2009.05.03 19:00:00 -
[52]
Cloaking is a useful mechanic, in empire aswell as 0.0. Killing something and then cloaking letting the heat go down and then killing something else. For when you need to go afk and have an agression timer.
Big no from me
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Komi Toran
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Posted - 2009.05.03 20:24:00 -
[53]
The problem, as I understand it, is not really that people are AFK while cloaked. It's that they camp in a system cloaked all day, pop on to gank some poor sap, then cloak up and wait for the defenders to get bored and leave before doing it all over again. The AFK part is not, in this case, the problem. The problem, if there is one, is that it makes any attempt to organize a defense against this tactic pointless, as it forces way too many people to waste far too much time on someone that is off doing something else, like having a life.
If there's to be a fix to it, it doesn't require a massive effort to introduce and balance a decloaking mod. Simply up the cool down for the cloak. If someone decloaks, make them commit to a fight. 10 minute cooldown for the tech I, five minute cool down for the tech II. The only thing then that needs to be changed is the ship-scanning mechanic, which is pretty broken as-is right now.
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Feilamya
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.05.03 21:08:00 -
[54]
Another solution would be to prevent all carebear activity when a cloaker is in local. Just make all rats and roids despawn until the cloaker has gone. Then the cloaker can't gank any stupid idiots poor saps who engage in carebear activity in spite of a hostile in local.
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Ausser
Cybertech Industrials Agency
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Posted - 2009.05.03 21:15:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Komi Toran The problem, as I understand it, is not really that people are AFK while cloaked. It's that they camp in a system cloaked all day, pop on to gank some poor sap, then cloak up and wait for the defenders to get bored and leave before doing it all over again. The AFK part is not, in this case, the problem. The problem, if there is one, is that it makes any attempt to organize a defense against this tactic pointless, as it forces way too many people to waste far too much time on someone that is off doing something else, like having a life.
The problem are not the hit+run tactics of the hunters. It's the decision of the 'poor sap' to commit to be ganked in a dangerous system by ignoring the threat because of greed. No greed, no risk. No risk, no fun.
With the cool down penalty you've suggested you would efficiently prevent every kind of covert operations. Nice for the greedy solo rabbit. Welcome to Hello Kitty Online.
Instead, let the rabbit fit a cyno, then he can play the bait. Once the hunters try to assasinate the careless looking rabbit, the defenders can be back within seconds and spank the hunters. They dont even need to be in the same system. And remove local. The hunters will have trouble to see if there is a covert trap in the system. Lot of funny fights could be the result. But this is not popular. Why? That's simple. Because the rabbit is so greedy, he wants not to share his income, he wants to play solo. Fitting a cyno cuts down his economic efficiency. Economics vs fun: Economics wins.
Is the claim to celebrate safe mining/ratting in low/0.0 without any active protection really worthy? At least it is verry verry popular.
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Komi Toran
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Posted - 2009.05.03 23:50:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Ausser
The problem are not the hit+run tactics of the hunters. It's the decision of the 'poor sap' to commit to be ganked in a dangerous system by ignoring the threat because of greed. No greed, no risk. No risk, no fun.
With the cool down penalty you've suggested you would efficiently prevent every kind of covert operations. Nice for the greedy solo rabbit. Welcome to Hello Kitty Online.
Please, do tell me how a large cool down on Tech I and Tech II cloaks would prevent covert operations of Cov-Ops, Stealth Bombers, or Force Recons. That is, of course, assuming that the pilot is not a ****** and actually uses the covert ops cloak, instead of a tech I or tech II. I'm really curious.
Plus, a good solo-gank pilot will be able to run through most gates without the need for a cloak. He'll be too quick for defenders to establish an effective gate camp until he reaches his destination.
Originally by: Ausser Instead, let the rabbit fit a cyno, then he can play the bait. Once the hunters try to assasinate the careless looking rabbit, the defenders can be back within seconds and spank the hunters.
Your counter to a HAC with a cloak is to have a capital fleet on standby? Right...
Originally by: Ausser They dont even need to be in the same system.
But they will have to be camped at a POS or hugging a station, otherwise those dreads and carriers you want hot dropped on a Vaga will be juicy targets for a gank.
Originally by: Ausser Is the claim to celebrate safe mining/ratting in low/0.0 without any active protection really worthy? At least it is verry verry popular.
Really? I never thought PvP players were so incapable of dealing with risk that having to, you know, actually think about having to elude pursuers would put a terribly undue burden on their poor little minds. Maybe we need an influx of WoW players to up the intelligence quotient here? Perhaps one of them could figure out how to fly away in a Vaga before a Revelation lands a lock on it, too.
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Beep BeepCLick
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Posted - 2009.05.04 02:08:00 -
[57]
I would like a counter too cloaking on None-cov op ships.
a Buzzard should be able too cloak and never be seen. a Raven Should not. a Carrier should not. a Titan should not be able too cloak and BE 100% safe from everyone.
if there a recon in system cloaked. Fine i can't find it and he could be anyplace. but a ISK FARMER raven that cloaks on any local jump has got too have a counter.
the new probes work great for the log out ratters. GO ccp. but now they all just fit cloaks. everyone ( but the isk farmers) hates isk farmers. i don't care if the probe is hard too use. long as i can force them cloaking ravens too fight or leave. i put the hurt on the isk farms. till then it's Cloaking raven HOO for theses poeple.
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Solomon XI
The Estovakian Militia.
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Posted - 2009.05.04 05:20:00 -
[58]
Cloaks are fine as-is and so are the mechanics. However I do support a tiny Achilles Heel of some sort. A way to probe them down (make it very difficult) would be good.
/covert op's cloak user. /pvper pirate. /loves and hates the cloak. /objective.
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Terra Mikael
SRIUS BISNIS
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Posted - 2009.05.09 19:24:00 -
[59]
I can see you're really going to **** your pants when they take local out... ________________________________
Originally by: Lone Gunman Yes overpowered would be giving a ship with the Covert ops cloak the ability to fire say..Torpedos, now that would be overpowered. But CCP would |
eliminator2
Gallente Annihilate. Shock Alliance
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Posted - 2009.05.09 21:21:00 -
[60]
would be cool to be able to track cloakers will allso eliminate isk farmers
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