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Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2009.04.22 11:47:00 -
[1]
It's still just waaay too good. I can happily sit at 100km or so and jam 3-4 targets (BS, with ECCM) often enough that it completely wrecks their effectiveness in a fight.
Earlier today I jammed a Chimera that was remote repping a Geddon long enough for the Geddon to die. From 120km. Is that right? Side note: I also had the Geddon jammed 100% as well. A carrier and a BS? Really?
My buddy got caught out by a small blob (6-10 ships, Onyx, Deimos, assorted BS) so I warped in at 100km with my Falcon and jammed enough tacklers that he warped out the instant I got locks on everyone with a point on him. Every jam, the very first time, across four ships.
I want to put my Falcon away, I really do, but it's still far too overpowered to be left unused when everyone else has the same capability.
Side note: out of 12+ engagements there were no kills simply because everyone jammed everyone else's tacklers/DPS and warped out/deagressed. This sucks. Fix it.
Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Death of Virtue is Recruiting
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Rordan D'Kherr
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.04.22 12:06:00 -
[2]
BECAUSE OF FALCON! |
Perry
Amarr The X-Trading Company RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.04.22 12:31:00 -
[3]
One Zealot is usually enough to kill a Falcon if the Falcon is busy with jamming tacklers.
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Beverly Sparks
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Posted - 2009.04.22 12:52:00 -
[4]
100km puts you in range of sniper HACs and normal BSs. Yes, you can still dominate very small engagements, but if you run into gangs of 10+ your chances of being either useless or dead get very high. |
Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2009.04.22 13:09:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Beverly Sparks 100km puts you in range of sniper HACs and normal BSs. Yes, you can still dominate very small engagements, but if you run into gangs of 10+ your chances of being either useless or dead get very high.
Sniper HACs don't live too long inside sentry range. Neither do sniper BS. The Pulse Apoc doesn't do too well either when it has enough tank to operate inside sentry range.
Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Death of Virtue is Recruiting
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Jarne
Increasing Success by Lowering Expectations Vanguard.
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Posted - 2009.04.22 13:45:00 -
[6]
Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.
One data point is not enough! |
Colonel Xaven
Decadence. RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.04.22 13:58:00 -
[7]
Lol. |
Beverly Sparks
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Posted - 2009.04.22 14:19:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Originally by: Beverly Sparks 100km puts you in range of sniper HACs and normal BSs. Yes, you can still dominate very small engagements, but if you run into gangs of 10+ your chances of being either useless or dead get very high.
Sniper HACs don't live too long inside sentry range. Neither do sniper BS. The Pulse Apoc doesn't do too well either when it has enough tank to operate inside sentry range.
Have they given Falcon's their own sentries too? Well then, maybe they do need looking into.
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Avion Saberis
Gallente Zodiac Guardians GARDIAN ALLIANCE
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Posted - 2009.04.22 15:08:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus It's still just waaay too good. I can happily sit at 100km or so and jam 3-4 targets (BS, with ECCM) often enough that it completely wrecks their effectiveness in a fight.
Earlier today I jammed a Chimera that was remote repping a Geddon long enough for the Geddon to die. From 120km. Is that right? Side note: I also had the Geddon jammed 100% as well. A carrier and a BS? Really?
My buddy got caught out by a small blob (6-10 ships, Onyx, Deimos, assorted BS) so I warped in at 100km with my Falcon and jammed enough tacklers that he warped out the instant I got locks on everyone with a point on him. Every jam, the very first time, across four ships.
I want to put my Falcon away, I really do, but it's still far too overpowered to be left unused when everyone else has the same capability.
Side note: out of 12+ engagements there were no kills simply because everyone jammed everyone else's tacklers/DPS and warped out/deagressed. This sucks. Fix it.
the only thing that would probably would make your jamming inaffective is if your up against someone who uses F.O.F. missiles and/or smartys. given they have the speed to reach you before you realize whats going on. and since fof missiles tartget the closes enemy object to your ship, if your the closes ship, you get hit. maybe ppl aren't thinking enough ways to counter a falcon and only fall on the same routine. Personally using some way to counter and think of a way to counter a falcon is the basic idea here. just ideas here, though i guess the idea of thinking is no longer affective anymore too.... |
God GirlFriend
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Posted - 2009.04.22 15:23:00 -
[10]
I have given up on it. Now i have a tempest with 4 ECCM specially to deal with falcons :P of course rest of gang needs to save me from anything else...
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Bronson Hughes
ADVANCED Combat and Engineering
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Posted - 2009.04.22 15:27:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Originally by: Beverly Sparks 100km puts you in range of sniper HACs and normal BSs. Yes, you can still dominate very small engagements, but if you run into gangs of 10+ your chances of being either useless or dead get very high.
Sniper HACs don't live too long inside sentry range. Neither do sniper BS. The Pulse Apoc doesn't do too well either when it has enough tank to operate inside sentry range.
You're assuming LoSec, no WarDec, and the Falcon pilot is not -5.0 or less (i.e. anyone firing on the Falcon starts taking sentry fire). Those are a perfectly valid set of assumptions mind you, but you can't judge the new Falcon, or any ship for that matter, by its performance in only one operating environment. If you remove sentry guns from the picture, sniper fits become more common and more effective which means that the Falcon has a harder time operating.
I'm not passing judgement on the ECM changes one way or the other, I'm just asking that nobody else do the same based on observations that are limited in scope. -------------------- "I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne |
Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2009.04.22 20:55:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Bronson Hughes
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Originally by: Beverly Sparks 100km puts you in range of sniper HACs and normal BSs. Yes, you can still dominate very small engagements, but if you run into gangs of 10+ your chances of being either useless or dead get very high.
Sniper HACs don't live too long inside sentry range. Neither do sniper BS. The Pulse Apoc doesn't do too well either when it has enough tank to operate inside sentry range.
You're assuming LoSec, no WarDec, and the Falcon pilot is not -5.0 or less (i.e. anyone firing on the Falcon starts taking sentry fire). Those are a perfectly valid set of assumptions mind you, but you can't judge the new Falcon, or any ship for that matter, by its performance in only one operating environment. If you remove sentry guns from the picture, sniper fits become more common and more effective which means that the Falcon has a harder time operating.
I'm not passing judgement on the ECM changes one way or the other, I'm just asking that nobody else do the same based on observations that are limited in scope.
Yes, I'm referring to operating Falcons inside sentry range in lowsec, but I'm building a best case scenario (which is an entirely common occurance) in which Falcons operate to make the point that they are still overpowered in that environment.
You don't see other ships or modules balanced with the assumption that the skills required to use them will be trained to one do you? The Falcon needs to be designed such that it's maximum performance is optimised around a best case environment, and then balanced backwards from there.
Right now it seems it's balanced more around 0.0 combat instead of lowsec and those priorities are backwards.
Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Death of Virtue is Recruiting
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VoiceInTheDesert
Zebra Corp Circle-Of-Two
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Posted - 2009.04.22 21:38:00 -
[13]
Falcons still dominate small gang warfare...at least they can't sit out of gate gun range though. I don't see the "nerf" as affecting much for lowsec pvp though. Typically, Falcon is used as a trap after the other person agresses...so he rarely will have to actually deal with the guns. In lowsec, snipers are rare because of low tanks, so moving them from 200 km to 100km hasn't changed a lot, especially since the strength has not been nerfed at all.
Unfortunate that these things have to ruin otherwise good lowsec pvp.
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Pellit1
Caldari Bushwhackers Rough Necks
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Posted - 2009.04.22 22:10:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus It's still just waaay too good.
STOP WHINING
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Beverly Sparks
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Posted - 2009.04.23 13:34:00 -
[15]
Maybe we should make Falcon's the primary targets of all gate guns in eve, all the the time everywhere. That should bring them in line.
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SateenAntilles
The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates
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Posted - 2009.04.23 15:45:00 -
[16]
Back seat time? You jam with a falcon? According to BattleClinic you have never flown a Falcon.
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Hexor V
I.M.M Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2009.04.23 16:11:00 -
[17]
The ship had enough done to it. Thanks for the useless dronebay and turret slots deuchebag. Oh no a falcon jams WAAAHHHHH. Thats as redundant as saying a pilgram neuts, an arazu points, and a rapier webs. What will you cry about next? Ohh nooo that damn guardian is repping? It's a tech II specialized ECM ship, deal with it.
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Fadedspirit
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Posted - 2009.04.23 16:24:00 -
[18]
Originally by: SateenAntilles Back seat time? You jam with a falcon? According to BattleClinic you have never flown a Falcon.
Don't start making jokes now Sateen, we all know how you suck at making them. BattleClinic is NEVER up to date in terms of recent events if the player so chooses. Me for instance, my BattleClinic character data is EXTREMELY old, and I keep it like that on purpose. I despise other people knowing whom I'm killing, how I'm killing them, and in what ship + equipment I'm doing it in.
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Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.04.23 16:36:00 -
[19]
Originally by: SateenAntilles Back seat time? You jam with a falcon? According to BattleClinic you have never flown a Falcon.
BattleClinic sure is a reliable source that is up to date on everything at all times!
I myself only post a few kills I want on BC (no not on the 'Sidus Isaacs' char)
But on topic: Falcon can still jam, is that a suprise? The range was supposed to get lowerd, but that was more or less all. Properly trained it is still useful, and if fitted right it should have at least 3 SDA IIs giving it good strenght and decent range.
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http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
Alexander Fyre
Caldari Ceptacemia Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2009.04.23 17:36:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus Right now it seems it's balanced more around 0.0 combat instead of lowsec and those priorities are backwards.
From whos point of view? yours as a low sec pilot? I would say that a 0.0 pilot would have a different view... And since you cant have a sec specific nerf, and its hard to claim that lowsec pilots are the majortiy, all types of pilots and usages must be taken into effect.
///Alex - Spec'd falcon pilot in 0.0 ///Alexander Fyre\\\ - "Kill em all... let god sort em out." |
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Alexander Fyre
Caldari Ceptacemia Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2009.04.23 17:39:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Hexor V The ship had enough done to it. Thanks for the useless dronebay and turret slots deuchebag. Oh no a falcon jams WAAAHHHHH. Thats as redundant as saying a pilgram neuts, an arazu points, and a rapier webs. What will you cry about next? Ohh nooo that damn guardian is repping? It's a tech II specialized ECM ship, deal with it.
Amen brother!
/signed. Couldnt have said it better, except to perhaps add a yarr! ///Alexander Fyre\\\ - "Kill em all... let god sort em out." |
Omara Otawan
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Posted - 2009.04.23 17:43:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Omara Otawan on 23/04/2009 17:43:47
Originally by: Sidus Isaacs
But on topic: Falcon can still jam, is that a suprise? The range was supposed to get lowerd, but that was more or less all. Properly trained it is still useful, and if fitted right it should have at least 3 SDA IIs giving it good strenght and decent range.
I guess it never was the intention to make it useless, like a lot of people expected obviously.
Fun times, I predicted there would be whines after the patch about ECM, didnt expect it to be that quick.
Can tell you one thing, if I was in charge of balancing I'd just rollback the change all together and teach some people about being grateful for what they got.
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VoiceInTheDesert
Zebra Corp Circle-Of-Two
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Posted - 2009.04.23 17:54:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Hexor V The ship had enough done to it. Thanks for the useless dronebay and turret slots deuchebag. Oh no a falcon jams WAAAHHHHH. Thats as redundant as saying a pilgram neuts, an arazu points, and a rapier webs. What will you cry about next? Ohh nooo that damn guardian is repping? It's a tech II specialized ECM ship, deal with it.
u mad?
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Mahke
Aeon Of Strife Skunk-Works
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Posted - 2009.04.23 18:53:00 -
[24]
So you're whining now that what was the best ecm ship now can only jam from range where its completely vulnerable to medium range sniper fire?
What the heck do you want? For ecm to only work from where you can hit it with blasters? To be removed altogether?
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Cade Morrigan
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.04.23 20:05:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Beverly Sparks
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Originally by: Beverly Sparks 100km puts you in range of sniper HACs and normal BSs. Yes, you can still dominate very small engagements, but if you run into gangs of 10+ your chances of being either useless or dead get very high.
Sniper HACs don't live too long inside sentry range. Neither do sniper BS. The Pulse Apoc doesn't do too well either when it has enough tank to operate inside sentry range.
Have they given Falcon's their own sentries too? Well then, maybe they do need looking into.
nicely done. |
Beverly Sparks
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Posted - 2009.04.23 20:41:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Fadedspirit Edited by: Fadedspirit on 23/04/2009 16:29:22
Originally by: SateenAntilles Back seat time? You jam with a falcon? According to BattleClinic you have never flown a Falcon.
Don't start making jokes now Sateen, we all know how you suck at making them. BattleClinic is NEVER up to date in terms of recent events if the player so chooses. Me for instance, my BattleClinic character data is EXTREMELY old, and I keep it like that on purpose. I despise other people knowing whom I'm killing, how I'm killing them, and in what ship + equipment I'm doing it in.
HAHA, I just checked BattleClinic's killboard, it still says I have zero kills and says it was last updated on April 23rd. I love tricking killboards =3!
Carebear!
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2009.04.24 01:11:00 -
[27]
Originally by: SateenAntilles Back seat time? You jam with a falcon? According to BattleClinic you have never flown a Falcon.
You're absolutely right. Nobody in Eve has more than one character, or even more than one account. Thank god you're so much smarter than everyone else and checked Battleclinic, the end-all be-all of combat information.
Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Death of Virtue is Recruiting
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5pinDizzy
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Posted - 2009.04.24 01:29:00 -
[28]
Meh, I've gone off battleclinic since the new fitting window.
They're still using an early incorrect version of the new fitting and the search functions are a lot more comprimised then they used to be.
Maybe they'll get around to it eventually.
if you disagree with me then you should probably post a response and stop reading my signature. |
Etho Demerzel
Gallente Holy Clan of the Cone
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Posted - 2009.04.24 04:34:00 -
[29]
Let me see, the snipers can't attack your falcon because they can't tank the sentry guns. The falcon on the other hand can tank the guns nice enough, right? Because you know, sentry guns hit at 100 km if you are not aware of it.
Did I miss the patch notes where they gave the falcon Drake tanks? =====
"If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs." - CCP kieron... |
xHomicide
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.04.24 04:35:00 -
[30]
After reading a bit of your post I realized...
YOU ARE A MORON
and probably full of ****, the chance of a falcon jamming 4 consecutive ships at 100km is less than 7%. If they were 4x BS, its about 1%. --- Razor CEI
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