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Istvaan Shogaatsu
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Posted - 2004.08.30 02:38:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Istvaan Shogaatsu on 30/08/2004 02:42:53 There are a few skills in Eve whose bonuses actually act to the detriment of the items related to them, if not merely lacking to provide a bonus whatsoever. It'd be really nice to have these looked at.
PROPULSION JAMMING: 5% bonus to scrambler and stasis web duration. As any PVPer will attest, the most frustrating thing in the world is soloing someone's ship to death, and being unable to scramble the pod because your goddamn scrambler is still going through its cycle. More duration means less effective scrambler. Would be far better changed to 5% energy use redux or something.
ELECTRONIC WARFARE: Same thing with ECM bursts, how about 5% less energy drain?
CONTROLLED BURSTS: Okay, it's a turret skill that reduces the cap use of turrets. What's it do for projectiles? Zilch, exactly. An interesting bonus would be 5% better tracking for projectiles, 5% less energy use for lasers and hybrids as usual - god knows projectiles need tracking help right now, and anyone who's ever fired a large machine gun knows that controlled bursts are the best way to keep the thing accurate.
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Istvaan Shogaatsu
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Posted - 2004.08.30 02:38:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Istvaan Shogaatsu on 30/08/2004 02:42:53 There are a few skills in Eve whose bonuses actually act to the detriment of the items related to them, if not merely lacking to provide a bonus whatsoever. It'd be really nice to have these looked at.
PROPULSION JAMMING: 5% bonus to scrambler and stasis web duration. As any PVPer will attest, the most frustrating thing in the world is soloing someone's ship to death, and being unable to scramble the pod because your goddamn scrambler is still going through its cycle. More duration means less effective scrambler. Would be far better changed to 5% energy use redux or something.
ELECTRONIC WARFARE: Same thing with ECM bursts, how about 5% less energy drain?
CONTROLLED BURSTS: Okay, it's a turret skill that reduces the cap use of turrets. What's it do for projectiles? Zilch, exactly. An interesting bonus would be 5% better tracking for projectiles, 5% less energy use for lasers and hybrids as usual - god knows projectiles need tracking help right now, and anyone who's ever fired a large machine gun knows that controlled bursts are the best way to keep the thing accurate.
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Carmen Priano
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Posted - 2004.08.30 04:15:00 -
[3]
Hm. Y'know, that controlled burst idea isn't half bad! Support it, without a doubt. And the others, of course.
Can Istvaan get some more cheers in support?
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Carmen Priano
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Posted - 2004.08.30 04:15:00 -
[4]
Hm. Y'know, that controlled burst idea isn't half bad! Support it, without a doubt. And the others, of course.
Can Istvaan get some more cheers in support?
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Piccilo
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Posted - 2004.08.30 05:22:00 -
[5]
definatley to the warp scramble issue- i spend most of my time solo'ing in a maled and the amount of pod i miss out on.....
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Piccilo
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Posted - 2004.08.30 05:22:00 -
[6]
definatley to the warp scramble issue- i spend most of my time solo'ing in a maled and the amount of pod i miss out on.....
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Fritz Ionar
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Posted - 2004.08.30 06:03:00 -
[7]
I agrea on the 2 first.
Controled bursts I see no need to change. It does what it says it does and it's a bonus not a deterent. Sure, it doesn't do much good for projectiles, but nither does the hybrid and laser weapon skills. Just don't train it if you don't plan to use lasers or hybrids.
------------------------------------------ The services YOU need, WE provide! |
Fritz Ionar
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Posted - 2004.08.30 06:03:00 -
[8]
I agrea on the 2 first.
Controled bursts I see no need to change. It does what it says it does and it's a bonus not a deterent. Sure, it doesn't do much good for projectiles, but nither does the hybrid and laser weapon skills. Just don't train it if you don't plan to use lasers or hybrids.
------------------------------------------ The services YOU need, WE provide! |
Seleene
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Posted - 2004.08.30 07:26:00 -
[9]
All good suggestions, Istvaan.
*SIGNED* -
T2 Weapons Testing in progress! Volunteer today! |
Seleene
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Posted - 2004.08.30 07:26:00 -
[10]
All good suggestions, Istvaan.
*SIGNED* -
T2 Weapons Testing in progress! Volunteer today! |
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Kalast Raven
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Posted - 2004.08.30 07:40:00 -
[11]
Controlled Bursts shouldnt do anything special for projectiles.
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K. Raven
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Kalast Raven
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Posted - 2004.08.30 07:40:00 -
[12]
Controlled Bursts shouldnt do anything special for projectiles.
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K. Raven
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Omber Zombie
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Posted - 2004.08.30 09:54:00 -
[13]
agreed with the frist 2 - there is a skill to up tracking already (motion prediction) ----------- "Remember people: Omber is the biggest evil ever created, DO NOT let it get to you!" Waagaa Ktlehr, BDCI
I have a blog
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Omber Zombie
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Posted - 2004.08.30 09:54:00 -
[14]
agreed with the frist 2 - there is a skill to up tracking already (motion prediction) ----------- "Remember people: Omber is the biggest evil ever created, DO NOT let it get to you!" Waagaa Ktlehr, BDCI
I have a blog
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Celt Eireson
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Posted - 2004.08.30 21:23:00 -
[15]
Or bring in a skill that's useful for projectiles but pretty much useless for lasers and hybrids :-)
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Celt Eireson
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Posted - 2004.08.30 21:23:00 -
[16]
Or bring in a skill that's useful for projectiles but pretty much useless for lasers and hybrids :-)
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Celt Eireson
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Posted - 2004.08.30 21:25:00 -
[17]
Hmmm a skill for ammo capacity for projectiles would be quite nice.
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Celt Eireson
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Posted - 2004.08.30 21:25:00 -
[18]
Hmmm a skill for ammo capacity for projectiles would be quite nice.
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Konoko Kusanagi
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Posted - 2004.08.30 21:55:00 -
[19]
Making controlled bursts improved projectile tracking isn't a half bad idea, actually. I agree with all 3 points.
"Remember. Short, controlled, bursts." - Cpl. Hicks, Aliens.
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Konoko Kusanagi
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Posted - 2004.08.30 21:55:00 -
[20]
Making controlled bursts improved projectile tracking isn't a half bad idea, actually. I agree with all 3 points.
"Remember. Short, controlled, bursts." - Cpl. Hicks, Aliens.
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Kyroki Tirpellan
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Posted - 2004.08.30 22:47:00 -
[21]
*signed*
Peace through love, understanding and superior firepower. Real men structure tank! |
Kyroki Tirpellan
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Posted - 2004.08.30 22:47:00 -
[22]
*signed*
Peace through love, understanding and superior firepower. Real men structure tank! |
Tisti
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Posted - 2004.08.30 22:50:00 -
[23]
Very nice points...
*signed*
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Tisti
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Posted - 2004.08.30 22:50:00 -
[24]
Very nice points...
*signed*
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ProphetGuru
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Posted - 2004.08.31 05:44:00 -
[25]
Agree on most.
On controlled burst... interesting proposal. I am not sure if, combined with motion prediction, this wouldn't make proj a little too powerful. (This is coming from someone who feels adamantly that proj need an improvement of some sort.)
Maybe someone can crunch those numbers and compare them to other turrets.
Be nice if the skill had some effect on em tho....
Evolution..... Just when you thought you were winning.
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ProphetGuru
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Posted - 2004.08.31 05:44:00 -
[26]
Agree on most.
On controlled burst... interesting proposal. I am not sure if, combined with motion prediction, this wouldn't make proj a little too powerful. (This is coming from someone who feels adamantly that proj need an improvement of some sort.)
Maybe someone can crunch those numbers and compare them to other turrets.
Be nice if the skill had some effect on em tho....
Evolution..... Just when you thought you were winning.
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Istvaan Shogaatsu
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Posted - 2004.08.31 05:47:00 -
[27]
How about instead of 5% more tracking, the bonus is reduced to 2.5%? Not nearly as significant as motion prediction, but still a helping hand to the beleaguered projectiles who receive nothing from this skill.
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Istvaan Shogaatsu
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Posted - 2004.08.31 05:47:00 -
[28]
How about instead of 5% more tracking, the bonus is reduced to 2.5%? Not nearly as significant as motion prediction, but still a helping hand to the beleaguered projectiles who receive nothing from this skill.
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Wren
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Posted - 2004.08.31 06:21:00 -
[29]
Controlled bursts should just be used for the autocannons/gatlings/rails that use 'bursting' shots.
An across the board % less ammo (be it charges or cap) with the same damage as a normal shot.
Of course, you fire an autocannon and you see one projectile go off, why do we hear "datdatdatdatdat" but only one bullet used?
Should be you click it and say, 4 or 5 rounds tick off while the autocannon is activated. That would make more sense. --------------------------------------------------
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Wren
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Posted - 2004.08.31 06:21:00 -
[30]
Controlled bursts should just be used for the autocannons/gatlings/rails that use 'bursting' shots.
An across the board % less ammo (be it charges or cap) with the same damage as a normal shot.
Of course, you fire an autocannon and you see one projectile go off, why do we hear "datdatdatdatdat" but only one bullet used?
Should be you click it and say, 4 or 5 rounds tick off while the autocannon is activated. That would make more sense. --------------------------------------------------
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Omber Zombie
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Posted - 2004.08.31 06:53:00 -
[31]
is it just me, or are you all missing teh point here? Controlled bursts only effects hybrids and lasers. Why are you training it if you are using projectiles?
Why are you asking for a completely seperate skill bonus that would help all turrets, except for projectiles only?
If it's a useless skill for you - don't train it. ----------- "Remember people: Omber is the biggest evil ever created, DO NOT let it get to you!" Waagaa Ktlehr, BDCI
I have a blog
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Omber Zombie
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Posted - 2004.08.31 06:53:00 -
[32]
is it just me, or are you all missing teh point here? Controlled bursts only effects hybrids and lasers. Why are you training it if you are using projectiles?
Why are you asking for a completely seperate skill bonus that would help all turrets, except for projectiles only?
If it's a useless skill for you - don't train it. ----------- "Remember people: Omber is the biggest evil ever created, DO NOT let it get to you!" Waagaa Ktlehr, BDCI
I have a blog
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dabster
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Posted - 2004.08.31 07:38:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Omber Zombie is it just me, or are you all missing teh point here? Controlled bursts only effects hybrids and lasers. Why are you training it if you are using projectiles?
Why are you asking for a completely seperate skill bonus that would help all turrets, except for projectiles only?
If it's a useless skill for you - don't train it.
Yea but show me a skill that only does good for projectiles, and not hybrid/lasers, I cant find any.
On the EW-part everybody agrees I'm sure, as recently discussed in another thread (by Fret?) that I cant find..long cycles=frustrating. ___________________________ Chicks dig Brutor's |
dabster
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Posted - 2004.08.31 07:38:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Omber Zombie is it just me, or are you all missing teh point here? Controlled bursts only effects hybrids and lasers. Why are you training it if you are using projectiles?
Why are you asking for a completely seperate skill bonus that would help all turrets, except for projectiles only?
If it's a useless skill for you - don't train it.
Yea but show me a skill that only does good for projectiles, and not hybrid/lasers, I cant find any.
On the EW-part everybody agrees I'm sure, as recently discussed in another thread (by Fret?) that I cant find..long cycles=frustrating. ___________________________ Chicks dig Brutor's |
Kahlee
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Posted - 2004.08.31 11:03:00 -
[35]
maybe some kind of rework of EW system that will immediately deactivate the module when the target is invalid?
I know its a lot to ask but hey, we can dream ----------------------------
Omniwar:You know what people do in online games to other people they cant win? Flame. |
Kahlee
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Posted - 2004.08.31 11:03:00 -
[36]
maybe some kind of rework of EW system that will immediately deactivate the module when the target is invalid?
I know its a lot to ask but hey, we can dream ----------------------------
Omniwar:You know what people do in online games to other people they cant win? Flame. |
Jernau Gurgeh
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Posted - 2004.09.01 14:03:00 -
[37]
Originally by: dabster
Originally by: Omber Zombie is it just me, or are you all missing teh point here? Controlled bursts only effects hybrids and lasers. Why are you training it if you are using projectiles?
Why are you asking for a completely seperate skill bonus that would help all turrets, except for projectiles only?
If it's a useless skill for you - don't train it.
Yea but show me a skill that only does good for projectiles, and not hybrid/lasers, I cant find any.
On the EW-part everybody agrees I'm sure, as recently discussed in another thread (by Fret?) that I cant find..long cycles=frustrating.
Trajectory Analysis is a little pointless for lasers, as the falloff is insignificant.
Motion Prediction is hardly vital for lasers, as the tracking on them is fine already.
There are 10 sorts of people in the world - those who understand binary, and those who do not. |
Jernau Gurgeh
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Posted - 2004.09.01 14:03:00 -
[38]
Originally by: dabster
Originally by: Omber Zombie is it just me, or are you all missing teh point here? Controlled bursts only effects hybrids and lasers. Why are you training it if you are using projectiles?
Why are you asking for a completely seperate skill bonus that would help all turrets, except for projectiles only?
If it's a useless skill for you - don't train it.
Yea but show me a skill that only does good for projectiles, and not hybrid/lasers, I cant find any.
On the EW-part everybody agrees I'm sure, as recently discussed in another thread (by Fret?) that I cant find..long cycles=frustrating.
Trajectory Analysis is a little pointless for lasers, as the falloff is insignificant.
Motion Prediction is hardly vital for lasers, as the tracking on them is fine already.
There are 10 sorts of people in the world - those who understand binary, and those who do not. |
Istvaan Shogaatsu
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Posted - 2004.09.01 17:23:00 -
[39]
You're really reaching, mate. More tracking never hurt a gun, no matter how good its base stats are - and no-one would turn down extra falloff range.
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Istvaan Shogaatsu
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Posted - 2004.09.01 17:23:00 -
[40]
You're really reaching, mate. More tracking never hurt a gun, no matter how good its base stats are - and no-one would turn down extra falloff range.
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Issle
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Posted - 2004.09.01 22:13:00 -
[41]
Eh, I'm going to agree with others- dont train it if you dont need it. It's like if I spend 10 years studying burmese pottery in college, get a degree in foreign art, and then open a pizza shop.
Who was the dummy to take the course? That's right.. Me. I paid for it. I can't gripe at the university because it's a virtually useless thing in my line of work.
Fully support the EW change idea, though.
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Issle
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Posted - 2004.09.01 22:13:00 -
[42]
Eh, I'm going to agree with others- dont train it if you dont need it. It's like if I spend 10 years studying burmese pottery in college, get a degree in foreign art, and then open a pizza shop.
Who was the dummy to take the course? That's right.. Me. I paid for it. I can't gripe at the university because it's a virtually useless thing in my line of work.
Fully support the EW change idea, though.
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Istvaan Shogaatsu
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Posted - 2004.09.01 23:46:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Istvaan Shogaatsu on 01/09/2004 23:47:49 ADDENDUM:
Repair systems.
Current bonus is 5% less duration for a repair module's cycle. Okay, at level 4, this makes a large armor repairer go from 15 seconds for 600 armor repaired, to 12 seconds. It also however makes the armor rep 20% less energy efficient since it's eating the same amount of energy in less time. I don't know if this is intended as some kind of balancing measure, but a smarter bonus would be 5% to repairer effectiveness, no? Repairs at an increased rate based on skill, but doesn't pay for it with increased energy consumption.
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Istvaan Shogaatsu
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Posted - 2004.09.01 23:46:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Istvaan Shogaatsu on 01/09/2004 23:47:49 ADDENDUM:
Repair systems.
Current bonus is 5% less duration for a repair module's cycle. Okay, at level 4, this makes a large armor repairer go from 15 seconds for 600 armor repaired, to 12 seconds. It also however makes the armor rep 20% less energy efficient since it's eating the same amount of energy in less time. I don't know if this is intended as some kind of balancing measure, but a smarter bonus would be 5% to repairer effectiveness, no? Repairs at an increased rate based on skill, but doesn't pay for it with increased energy consumption.
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GrandReaper
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Posted - 2004.09.02 08:43:00 -
[45]
You are all right. Why train a skill that doesnÆt do any good for you. But when ccp break a gun like projectiles and people and ccp say that cap usage =damage over time then hybrid and especial laser user gain the most from the skill and making cap problem NO problem. So it would make since that it makes other bonuses for projectiles. And now dayÆs projectile user HAVE to retrain skills so they can use laser or hybrid to hit the planet they are in front of. ThatÆs how bad they are hinting now days.
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GrandReaper
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Posted - 2004.09.02 08:43:00 -
[46]
You are all right. Why train a skill that doesnÆt do any good for you. But when ccp break a gun like projectiles and people and ccp say that cap usage =damage over time then hybrid and especial laser user gain the most from the skill and making cap problem NO problem. So it would make since that it makes other bonuses for projectiles. And now dayÆs projectile user HAVE to retrain skills so they can use laser or hybrid to hit the planet they are in front of. ThatÆs how bad they are hinting now days.
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Chepe Nolon
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Posted - 2004.09.02 11:31:00 -
[47]
Yes, use the time you save on not training the skill, for upping motion prediction another level.
See it this way, you need the controlled burst for the other two types of turrets, but not for the projectile. You should see this as something positive, not negative.
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Chepe Nolon
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Posted - 2004.09.02 11:31:00 -
[48]
Yes, use the time you save on not training the skill, for upping motion prediction another level.
See it this way, you need the controlled burst for the other two types of turrets, but not for the projectile. You should see this as something positive, not negative.
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hellwarrior
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Posted - 2004.09.02 11:58:00 -
[49]
Edited by: hellwarrior on 02/09/2004 11:59:54 my new improved 1400 .02rad/sec tracking! RAWRAWRARWR!!!....hrm.. w.e. i fly tempst and have it @ 5, its ok by me! adapt with the patches.. <- this does not refer to projectiles atm and howu must adapt, it refers to if prjs were chnaged 4 good :> just incase i have some minmatar jump ontop of me and...
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hellwarrior
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Posted - 2004.09.02 11:58:00 -
[50]
Edited by: hellwarrior on 02/09/2004 11:59:54 my new improved 1400 .02rad/sec tracking! RAWRAWRARWR!!!....hrm.. w.e. i fly tempst and have it @ 5, its ok by me! adapt with the patches.. <- this does not refer to projectiles atm and howu must adapt, it refers to if prjs were chnaged 4 good :> just incase i have some minmatar jump ontop of me and...
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Kahlee
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Posted - 2004.09.02 19:17:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu Edited by: Istvaan Shogaatsu on 01/09/2004 23:47:49 ADDENDUM:
Repair systems.
Current bonus is 5% less duration for a repair module's cycle. Okay, at level 4, this makes a large armor repairer go from 15 seconds for 600 armor repaired, to 12 seconds. It also however makes the armor rep 20% less energy efficient since it's eating the same amount of energy in less time. I don't know if this is intended as some kind of balancing measure, but a smarter bonus would be 5% to repairer effectiveness, no? Repairs at an increased rate based on skill, but doesn't pay for it with increased energy consumption.
Nah, this one is OK. cap:hp ratio is the same, but you gain armor in less time and can tank more damage If you got a problem with not beingh able to sustain cap, then micromanage ----------------------------
Omniwar:You know what people do in online games to other people they cant win? Flame. |
Kahlee
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Posted - 2004.09.02 19:17:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu Edited by: Istvaan Shogaatsu on 01/09/2004 23:47:49 ADDENDUM:
Repair systems.
Current bonus is 5% less duration for a repair module's cycle. Okay, at level 4, this makes a large armor repairer go from 15 seconds for 600 armor repaired, to 12 seconds. It also however makes the armor rep 20% less energy efficient since it's eating the same amount of energy in less time. I don't know if this is intended as some kind of balancing measure, but a smarter bonus would be 5% to repairer effectiveness, no? Repairs at an increased rate based on skill, but doesn't pay for it with increased energy consumption.
Nah, this one is OK. cap:hp ratio is the same, but you gain armor in less time and can tank more damage If you got a problem with not beingh able to sustain cap, then micromanage ----------------------------
Omniwar:You know what people do in online games to other people they cant win? Flame. |
Jacmert Corra'Halcyon
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Posted - 2004.09.02 20:17:00 -
[53]
Yes, there is no disadvantage to that armor repair bonus (unless you don't want to repair your armor that fast at the expense of energy). You are still expending the same amount of energy to repair the same amount of armor; you're just doing it faster (which is good). If you have a problem with consuming that much energy faster, do as Kahlee said and micromanage your armor repairer. -------- StrongHold - Ghost Fleet Jacmert - "Jesus Boy" http://www.sfu.ca/~pkchan - I love my Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ |
Jacmert Corra'Halcyon
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Posted - 2004.09.02 20:17:00 -
[54]
Yes, there is no disadvantage to that armor repair bonus (unless you don't want to repair your armor that fast at the expense of energy). You are still expending the same amount of energy to repair the same amount of armor; you're just doing it faster (which is good). If you have a problem with consuming that much energy faster, do as Kahlee said and micromanage your armor repairer. -------- StrongHold - Ghost Fleet Jacmert - "Jesus Boy" http://www.sfu.ca/~pkchan - I love my Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ |
Odet
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Posted - 2004.09.02 20:40:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu Edited by: Istvaan Shogaatsu on 30/08/2004 02:42:53 There are a few skills in Eve whose bonuses actually act to the detriment of the items related to them, if not merely lacking to provide a bonus whatsoever. It'd be really nice to have these looked at.
PROPULSION JAMMING: 5% bonus to scrambler and stasis web duration. As any PVPer will attest, the most frustrating thing in the world is soloing someone's ship to death, and being unable to scramble the pod because your goddamn scrambler is still going through its cycle. More duration means less effective scrambler. Would be far better changed to 5% energy use redux or something.
ELECTRONIC WARFARE: Same thing with ECM bursts, how about 5% less energy drain?
CONTROLLED BURSTS: Okay, it's a turret skill that reduces the cap use of turrets. What's it do for projectiles? Zilch, exactly. An interesting bonus would be 5% better tracking for projectiles, 5% less energy use for lasers and hybrids as usual - god knows projectiles need tracking help right now, and anyone who's ever fired a large machine gun knows that controlled bursts are the best way to keep the thing accurate.
I made a thread about this a while ago old news.... The EW system will be redone up in shiva. look in eve idea lab if you want to see my post or maybe 50 pages back in general discussion.
=This podding has been brought to you by Odet, the only way to fry.= |
Odet
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Posted - 2004.09.02 20:40:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu Edited by: Istvaan Shogaatsu on 30/08/2004 02:42:53 There are a few skills in Eve whose bonuses actually act to the detriment of the items related to them, if not merely lacking to provide a bonus whatsoever. It'd be really nice to have these looked at.
PROPULSION JAMMING: 5% bonus to scrambler and stasis web duration. As any PVPer will attest, the most frustrating thing in the world is soloing someone's ship to death, and being unable to scramble the pod because your goddamn scrambler is still going through its cycle. More duration means less effective scrambler. Would be far better changed to 5% energy use redux or something.
ELECTRONIC WARFARE: Same thing with ECM bursts, how about 5% less energy drain?
CONTROLLED BURSTS: Okay, it's a turret skill that reduces the cap use of turrets. What's it do for projectiles? Zilch, exactly. An interesting bonus would be 5% better tracking for projectiles, 5% less energy use for lasers and hybrids as usual - god knows projectiles need tracking help right now, and anyone who's ever fired a large machine gun knows that controlled bursts are the best way to keep the thing accurate.
I made a thread about this a while ago old news.... The EW system will be redone up in shiva. look in eve idea lab if you want to see my post or maybe 50 pages back in general discussion.
=This podding has been brought to you by Odet, the only way to fry.= |
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