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Fitz VonHeise
Foundation
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Posted - 2009.04.22 21:06:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Fitz VonHeise on 22/04/2009 21:19:32
I am attempting to find who has had the most caps kills off in a fleet battle. I've gotten a few responses already and added them below.
You will notice that two of those below are for same location and same battle... but show different numbers killed. And there is a battle report listed that says 123 caps were killed for that battle.
I need to have actual killboards show the numbers... not what people think happened.
Your help is appreciated.... and I will keep updating this list as you give me the info.
Largest Caps Killed In Fleet Action
98 in E-OGL4 - NC vs GBC in E-O 98 caps killed 83 in Y-W6GF - CH/Shade/TM/PL/DACO vs TRI/404/White Noise/SOLAR . 123 caps dead 73 in Y-W6GF - CH/Shade/TM/PL/DACO vs TRI/404/White Noise/SOLAR 65 in BQ0-UU - Rk/Smash/Fix/-V-/Atlas vs Solar Fleet/IC/Legion of xXDXx 57 in 46DP-O - Atlas vs xXDEATHXx 54 in A-GPTM - SE/C0ven vs GS/TCF 52 in C9N-CC - SE/C0ven vs RA/MASS
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Fitz VonHeise
Foundation
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Posted - 2009.04.22 21:07:00 -
[2]
Reserved
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Armoured C
Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Aggression.
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Posted - 2009.04.22 21:11:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Armoured C on 22/04/2009 21:11:48 first
my titan exploded in my trousers that is a big cap?
that 65 cap destoryed battle i thought there was more
IS BACK WITH A VENGENCE YARRRRRRR
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Fitz VonHeise
Foundation
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Posted - 2009.04.23 16:34:00 -
[4]
Added one more battle.
Has your Alliance crushed another and gotten large cap kills? Let me know.
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faxtarious
Minmatar Kai-Zen inc.
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Posted - 2009.04.23 17:09:00 -
[5]
The question here should be
how the F**** does an alliance fund all these caps ????
GTC ??? eBay ???
in game methods ??? (yeah..My ass)
I've been in and out of both PvP corps / alliances and had my alt in Industrial sector.
and i know for a fact that it takes a nearly a billion isk + man power to manufacture one cap ship. -take few days for one R&D char with industry skills to lvl V to manufacture components for one cap -And it takes a week to actually BUILD the dam thing....
NOW Logistics !!!
You need to be in low sec or 0.0 POS + CAP assembly facility + POS Fuel + blah and blah and blah...
Then you need to MOOOVE all that in the designated 0.0 destination... again: Manpower and jump fuel...
NOW you have to FIT all these Caps...again Manufacturing + Billions
Knowing how PvP alliances operate... "always buy Pew pewing", Roaming gangs every night... wasting cap ammo on POS... and waiting around the clock for the thing to come out of reinforcement... there is no time to actually MAKE isk IN GAME.
even if they had a dedicated R&D and Indy dept, i don't know of any indy corp that can pump out 50 or more cap JUST like that....
even with alt indy corp... You,d need Trillions of isk to get that op going...NOT to mention man power... the trillion of isk is not the issue here ..but the man power, logistics and work load that comes into play is Not even REALISTIC.
So how those that magic take place... juts to be destroyed in a matter of hours the next day ?
ENLIGHTEN ME
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faxtarious
Minmatar Kai-Zen inc.
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Posted - 2009.04.23 17:30:00 -
[6]
You guys are always whining about "balance this...balance that..."
this kind of crap should be balanced....
people now talk about titans like if it were nothing.... I mean... what the F***... ???
I kow most of eve's population is mostly composed of adults with jobs and all, and most of you can afford these GTC for your Cap pew pew... But that crap is seriously killing the game...
a fleet of 98 CAP...??? lol
what ever happened to tactics ? so it all comes down to the alliance with the most stupidly rich members.
PvP in this game blows. My hat goes to CCP for letting that slip. but hell..what could they do ...They places all possible barriers against this: 1 year to be able to just fly a cap ship, 6 months or more to be able to fit it. a months to build and fit it, nerfing it so it wasn't a PWN mobile anymore so that the pilot would prioritize tactics over brute force.
But what can the people who invented the game do against deep wallets from citizens of top tier world countries.
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Emywn Vanya
Caldari Redemption or Retribution Exxxotic
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Posted - 2009.04.23 17:32:00 -
[7]
I take it you dont understand how much isk a single high end moon brings in a month ----------------------- The answer is 42 |
Hyveres
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.04.23 17:36:00 -
[8]
Originally by: faxtarious The question here should be
how the F**** does an alliance fund all these caps ????
According to some goons Delve alone is around 300 billion per month in moon income. And there are other regions with moons as well :) "Subtlety is a thing for philosophy, not combat. If you're going to kill someone, you might as well kill them a whole lot." - Vulcan Raven, The Last Days Of Foxhound |
faxtarious
Minmatar Kai-Zen inc.
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Posted - 2009.04.23 17:53:00 -
[9]
Edited by: faxtarious on 23/04/2009 17:54:18
Originally by: Emywn Vanya I take it you dont understand how much isk a single high end moon brings in a month
300 bill... now that's nice
so you juts set up a large POS... a few silos and a few moon mining equipment ... roughly 500 mill and about 100-200 mill / month in fuel..and you are set
300 bill per months...
Meanwhile for a mining corp in low sec with a few miners and few hulks (5) am Orca or two, a few falcon pilot and tacklers for security...a med pos with a corp hangar and a freighter or jump freighter (depending on how deep you are)... you can't even come close to a quarter that after months of actually (doing something)
Now you want to talk about lvl 4 missions in high sec being too "profitable" for the low risk and investment involved...
How about that infamous "Moon" that requires just that you flick a switch...then you jump all that in empire. what's more balanced ?
NOW My POINT...
let,s say i have 300 bill...where do I buy those 98 caps ?? on market ?? In Heimatar, every individual seller of these cap ships usually have one in inventory for sale, and there are not that many of them. Now how many trade hups /region does EvE has... a few... If we do a little number crunching and we push the logic a bit, let say an alliance decides to buy all of new Eden's Caps in one day... i doubt that you,ll have even 50 cap in corp hangar.
so that leaves..."special orders" and local production. read my earlier post regarding the manpower required for these kind of productions.
It,s weird... you never see these in science and indy forum... tall they talk about up there is Veldspar
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BillyBob Esq
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Posted - 2009.04.23 17:59:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Hyveres
Originally by: faxtarious The question here should be
how the F**** does an alliance fund all these caps ????
According to some goons Delve alone is around 300 billion per month in moon income. And there are other regions with moons as well :)
Really makes me wonder what the **** is the point of doing anything else. One of these days... one of these days....
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Kuar Z'thain
Fraser's Finest
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Posted - 2009.04.23 18:01:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Fitz VonHeise 98 in E-OGL4 - NC vs GBC in E-O 98 caps killed
I don't believe this battle should count since a good majority of the losses were reimbursed by CCP due to server issues.
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Chris Liath
Gallente Nex Exercitus Skunk-Works
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Posted - 2009.04.23 18:04:00 -
[12]
Originally by: faxtarious Edited by: faxtarious on 23/04/2009 17:54:18
Originally by: Emywn Vanya I take it you dont understand how much isk a single high end moon brings in a month
300 bill... now that's nice
so you juts set up a large POS... a few silos and a few moon mining equipment ... roughly 500 mill and about 100-200 mill / month in fuel..and you are set
300 bill per months...
Meanwhile for a mining corp in low sec with a few miners and few hulks (5) am Orca or two, a few falcon pilot and tacklers for security...a med pos with a corp hangar and a freighter or jump freighter (depending on how deep you are)... you can't even come close to a quarter that after months of actually (doing something)
Now you want to talk about lvl 4 missions in high sec being too "profitable" for the low risk and investment involved...
How about that infamous "Moon" that requires just that you flick a switch...then you jump all that in empire. what's more balanced ?
NOW My POINT...
let,s say i have 300 bill...where do I buy those 98 caps ?? on market ?? In Heimatar, every individual seller of these cap ships usually have one in inventory for sale, and there are not that many of them. Now how many trade hups /region does EvE has... a few... If we do a little number crunching and we push the logic a bit, let say an alliance decides to buy all of new Eden's Caps in one day... i doubt that you,ll have even 50 cap in corp hangar.
so that leaves..."special orders" and local production. read my earlier post regarding the manpower required for these kind of productions.
It,s weird... you never see these in science and indy forum... tall they talk about up there is Veldspar
.... Which is why these moons are worth losing hundreds of caps over in the first place.
"Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't thought of that," and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic. |
Zetjur Jilnou
Rapid Deployment Industries
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Posted - 2009.04.23 18:31:00 -
[13]
Originally by: faxtarious
let,s say i have 300 bill...where do I buy those 98 caps ?? on market ?? In Heimatar, every individual seller of these cap ships usually have one in inventory for sale, and there are not that many of them. Now how many trade hups /region does EvE has... a few... If we do a little number crunching and we push the logic a bit, let say an alliance decides to buy all of new Eden's Caps in one day... i doubt that you,ll have even 50 cap in corp hangar.
so that leaves..."special orders" and local production. read my earlier post regarding the manpower required for these kind of productions.
You aren't very bright, are you.
I personally build about 20 capital ships every two week production cycle, with just a few characters. If I can do it on my own, I'm sure alliances have no issues.
As for ISK, in most alliances I've been in, most capital ships are personally owned, with a sort of 'reimbursement' scheme where the alliance will pay out some ISK to you if you lose a capital ship in an alliance fleet fight.
You've never been in a 0.0 alliance, have you? Maybe you should give it a try and stop being so bitter.
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Crackzilla
The Shadow Order
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Posted - 2009.04.23 18:47:00 -
[14]
Originally by: faxtarious The question here should be
how the F**** does an alliance fund all these caps ????
A 0.0 alliance for the most part doesn't *make* caps. Instead all that is required a 0.0 corp might have an empire alt corp with 1 builder and some freighter alts.
Make a run every few days picking up pos fuel and mins to a low sec station and haul back moon mins. Start the build job there. Just takes a few alts to keep the process going. Makes a few caps every week. The startup costs aren't that bad for a corp.
Alliances pay for part of losses through high end moon mins. Corps pay a portion with more common moon mins and reactions/labs. You might be out of pocket maybe 200-300mil per loss max. The individual pilot can cover this in a few days just by ratting while waiting for the fleet to form.
Also many roamers have cap alts out ratting. Make isk off the roam and the ratting. Then for cap ops the roamer is out ratting. Or back in empire running level 4's.
If you fly a dread often enough it makes sense to insure them. Insurance pays for the ship, the alliance bit pays for fittings and part of insurance. If the alliance/corp is generous then you can lose a cap and *make* isk.
By far the most annoying bit of losing a cap is refitting and moving the new one. So thats why folks buy and fit multiple dreads & carriers at a time.
At a certainly point it makes sense to just buy caps from the market. No point worrying about 100mil difference. So if the alliance doesn't have spares, the corp doesn't have spares, and the pilot doesn't have a spare, then the market can easily take up the slack.
Caps are the new battleship.
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faxtarious
Minmatar Kai-Zen inc.
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Posted - 2009.04.23 18:48:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Zetjur Jilnou
Originally by: faxtarious
let,s say i have 300 bill...where do I buy those 98 caps ?? on market ?? In Heimatar, every individual seller of these cap ships usually have one in inventory for sale, and there are not that many of them. Now how many trade hups /region does EvE has... a few... If we do a little number crunching and we push the logic a bit, let say an alliance decides to buy all of new Eden's Caps in one day... i doubt that you,ll have even 50 cap in corp hangar.
so that leaves..."special orders" and local production. read my earlier post regarding the manpower required for these kind of productions.
You aren't very bright, are you.
I personally build about 20 capital ships every two week production cycle, with just a few characters. If I can do it on my own, I'm sure alliances have no issues.
As for ISK, in most alliances I've been in, most capital ships are personally owned, with a sort of 'reimbursement' scheme where the alliance will pay out some ISK to you if you lose a capital ship in an alliance fleet fight.
You've never been in a 0.0 alliance, have you? Maybe you should give it a try and stop being so bitter.
Ahh...the miracle industrialist...I love you guys
"Just a few chars"...humm let me guess..how many accounts do you own ?
"20 capital ships every two week production cycle" wait...you must own a moon to be able to fund such production. A cap components goes fro about 5 mill a pop.
And yes my friend after 4 years, i'd be dumb not try out those elusive 0.0 alliance...big and small
"Ship reimbursement program"...what ...you mean the crap that gives you about 6 mill isk on a BC lost worth 100 mill... yeah... pretty handy, i'll give you that.
Now MY POINT (lol I love those)
please share with how you fund these "20 capital ships every two week production cycle".
WE (the rest of EvE) want a piece of that magical Pie.
And PS: This is a game...I'm not bitter...i've been seeing those cap fights since caps ship got into eve and never said a word...but back then ONE mothership Hot drop had the "Holly ****" factor, nowadays it's just a giggle...so now The new standard in "WoW" factor got the best of me ..since nothing much has changed in game mechanics since 04'
ball is in your court "20 cap" dude
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.04.23 18:55:00 -
[16]
Originally by: faxtarious The question here should be
how the F**** does an alliance fund all these caps ????
GTC ??? eBay ???
in game methods ??? (yeah..My ass)
I've been in and out of both PvP corps / alliances and had my alt in Industrial sector.
and i know for a fact that it takes a nearly a billion isk + man power to manufacture one cap ship. -take few days for one R&D char with industry skills to lvl V to manufacture components for one cap -And it takes a week to actually BUILD the dam thing....
NOW Logistics !!!
You need to be in low sec or 0.0 POS + CAP assembly facility + POS Fuel + blah and blah and blah...
Then you need to MOOOVE all that in the designated 0.0 destination... again: Manpower and jump fuel...
NOW you have to FIT all these Caps...again Manufacturing + Billions
Knowing how PvP alliances operate... "always buy Pew pewing", Roaming gangs every night... wasting cap ammo on POS... and waiting around the clock for the thing to come out of reinforcement... there is no time to actually MAKE isk IN GAME.
even if they had a dedicated R&D and Indy dept, i don't know of any indy corp that can pump out 50 or more cap JUST like that....
even with alt indy corp... You,d need Trillions of isk to get that op going...NOT to mention man power... the trillion of isk is not the issue here ..but the man power, logistics and work load that comes into play is Not even REALISTIC.
So how those that magic take place... juts to be destroyed in a matter of hours the next day ?
ENLIGHTEN ME
2 week's mission running will buy & fit a carrier. 3 weeks for a dread.
That's how I got mine, anyway.
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Holy Lowlander
Lone Star Joint Venture Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.04.23 18:56:00 -
[17]
a 0.0 alliance with bnig capital production capabilities ususally has a (few) amarr outposts deticated to capital (parts) production. You can dish out capitals at a rather high rate that way.
dishing out 10 dreads a month for a deticated industry corp is very realistic.
then the 98 capital ship battle in e-o.
that where 2 of the biggest capital fleet coalitions ingame at the time. The GBC and the NC both had/have ****loads of moons , members and thus income and manpower.
If there ever comes a cap batle with stainwagon + kenny vs goonies and nc peoples and it doesn't get unplayable because of lagg it will break records across the board ... they stole my sig :'( |
Professor Dumbledore
Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.04.23 19:00:00 -
[18]
Originally by: faxtarious
Originally by: Zetjur Jilnou
Originally by: faxtarious
let,s say i have 300 bill...where do I buy those 98 caps ?? on market ?? In Heimatar, every individual seller of these cap ships usually have one in inventory for sale, and there are not that many of them. Now how many trade hups /region does EvE has... a few... If we do a little number crunching and we push the logic a bit, let say an alliance decides to buy all of new Eden's Caps in one day... i doubt that you,ll have even 50 cap in corp hangar.
so that leaves..."special orders" and local production. read my earlier post regarding the manpower required for these kind of productions.
You aren't very bright, are you.
I personally build about 20 capital ships every two week production cycle, with just a few characters. If I can do it on my own, I'm sure alliances have no issues.
As for ISK, in most alliances I've been in, most capital ships are personally owned, with a sort of 'reimbursement' scheme where the alliance will pay out some ISK to you if you lose a capital ship in an alliance fleet fight.
You've never been in a 0.0 alliance, have you? Maybe you should give it a try and stop being so bitter.
Ahh...the miracle industrialist...I love you guys
"Just a few chars"...humm let me guess..how many accounts do you own ?
"20 capital ships every two week production cycle" wait...you must own a moon to be able to fund such production. A cap components goes fro about 5 mill a pop.
And yes my friend after 4 years, i'd be dumb not try out those elusive 0.0 alliance...big and small
"Ship reimbursement program"...what ...you mean the crap that gives you about 6 mill isk on a BC lost worth 100 mill... yeah... pretty handy, i'll give you that.
Now MY POINT (lol I love those)
please share with how you fund these "20 capital ships every two week production cycle".
WE (the rest of EvE) want a piece of that magical Pie.
And PS: This is a game...I'm not bitter...i've been seeing those cap fights since caps ship got into eve and never said a word...but back then ONE mothership Hot drop had the "Holly ****" factor, nowadays it's just a giggle...so now The new standard in "WoW" factor got the best of me ..since nothing much has changed in game mechanics since 04'
ball is in your court "20 cap" dude
When you sell a cap on the open market you can often make up-to 300-400 million per ship profit so yea its very profitable you just have to have all the skills and enough capital to cover the investment to build them which to build 20 every two weeks ( lets say he's using BPC's for the cap ships and bpo's for components ) at-least ~ 30 billion invested to make say 3-4 billion every two weeks.
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Crackzilla
The Shadow Order
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Posted - 2009.04.23 19:01:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Crackzilla on 23/04/2009 19:03:32 Edited by: Crackzilla on 23/04/2009 19:02:27
Originally by: faxtarious "Just a few chars"...humm let me guess..how many accounts do you own ?
It can be done with 2x accounts leaving slots free for pvp chars (mostly so one account can scout for the other during freighter runs).
Originally by: faxtarious
"20 capital ships every two week production cycle" wait...you must own a moon to be able to fund such production.
I'd guess roughly about 25bil for the set of bpos with maybe another 20bil in floating mins/freighters/etc (i'm not an industrialist). If he reinvests the profit into the business it'll just grow and he's had a few years to do this.
Originally by: faxtarious
"Ship reimbursement program"...what ...you mean the crap that gives you about 6 mill isk on a BC lost worth 100 mill...
Alliances give members hundreds of mil isk per cap lost during fleet ops. Or they'll give them a free replacement cap ship. Mostly to stop people from trying to take a bc to a fleet fight.
Originally by: faxtarious
please share with how you fund these "20 capital ships every two week production cycle".
40-50bil is well off but not especially wealthy. If he sells them at just 50mil profit per (horrible) that means hes making an additional 1bil isk per 2 weeks. He'll grow his operation 50% after 1 year. Lots of money in building.
To be fair there is more isk in selling on the open market. If something is sold within an alliance or corp there will be expected a deep discount.
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faxtarious
Minmatar Kai-Zen inc.
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Posted - 2009.04.23 19:15:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Crackzilla
Originally by: faxtarious The question here should be
how the F**** does an alliance fund all these caps ????
this
a heavy skilled builder can have around 10 jobs running one an 11 days cycle each (I own such an alt). so basically 10 caps every two weeks fro one char. that,s not the issue. the issue is "Funding". what can eb the main revenue for an alliance: corp tax + the 5 mill isk (you guys ask every month for I dunno wtf) -industry that in itself is composed of "MINING", "MOON MINING" and "MANUFACTURING". We could also add trading, but that would be litter picking.
now let,s analyze each of these aspect. MINING: it,s tedious and requires manpower even in 0.0 to be effective at an alliance level. MOON MINING: I've never done it..but someone pointed out that the most contested region EvE right now can pump out 300 bill per month on moons mining. Again. i've never done it... because you need to guard it 24/7 and be ready to defend it since "98 caps" is the standard now....
MANUFACTURING: straight forward...bring the mats, have enough chars with high indy skills and science skills to build he components and you're good to go.
PROBLEM: Man power and income.
You jst told me that in an allaince:
"The individual pilot can cover this in a few days just by ratting while waiting for the fleet to form." (200-300mil) True...But he has to rat allot...even in 0.0... not to mention if he's in a region like curse (I don,t even need to go there)
"Also many roamers have cap alts out ratting. Make isk off the roam and the ratting. Then for cap ops the roamer is out ratting. Or back in empire running level 4's"
did I read that right "make isk of the roam" ??? and much isk can you make of a roam ? You just had 20 other guys help you pop a raven, what do you do... pop the loot and keep it all to yourself ?? (I always wonder where those loot went...because the community hangar I was used to had the crappiest junk in them) this is fishy....
and of course, we need to get back to reality here... a 5 hour roam (unless you are lucky to be living in curse.. where pew pew crazed American, Russians and French room ALLLLLLL the time in big fleets) you are lucky to get a few kills...so this can't even be put unto the equasion...
"Also many roamers have cap alts out ratting. Make isk off the roam and the ratting. Then for cap ops the roamer is out ratting. Or back in empire running level 4's.
If you fly a dread often enough it makes sense to insure them. Insurance pays for the ship, the alliance bit pays for fittings and part of insurance. If the alliance/corp is generous then you can lose a cap and *make* isk."
Your example has duck tape all over it. I'm Minmatar, I know a finger or two about duck tape...and even worse... does those alliance cap pilot you talk about ever sleep...go to school.. go to work... have just a little bit of social life ???
I'm sorry... I can't buy that...
I can buy the story of the guy ratting to buy his plex every month... 300 mill is feasible in a month by ratting or running missions... Making isk while pew pewing is not something you can sell easily. because everyone know that pew pew eats isk like a hungry fat dude at McD's.
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faxtarious
Minmatar Kai-Zen inc.
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Posted - 2009.04.23 19:18:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Professor Dumbledore
Originally by: faxtarious
Originally by: Zetjur Jilnou
Originally by: faxtarious
let,s say i have 300 bill...where do I buy those 98 caps ?? on market ?? In Heimatar, every individual seller of these cap ships usually have one in inventory for sale, and there are not that many of them. Now how many trade hups /region does EvE has... a few... If we do a little number crunching and we push the logic a bit, let say an alliance decides to buy all of new Eden's Caps in one day... i doubt that you,ll have even 50 cap in corp hangar.
so that leaves..."special orders" and local production. read my earlier post regarding the manpower required for these kind of productions.
You aren't very bright, are you.
I personally build about 20 capital ships every two week production cycle, with just a few characters. If I can do it on my own, I'm sure alliances have no issues.
As for ISK, in most alliances I've been in, most capital ships are personally owned, with a sort of 'reimbursement' scheme where the alliance will pay out some ISK to you if you lose a capital ship in an alliance fleet fight.
You've never been in a 0.0 alliance, have you? Maybe you should give it a try and stop being so bitter.
Ahh...the miracle industrialist...I love you guys
"Just a few chars"...humm let me guess..how many accounts do you own ?
"20 capital ships every two week production cycle" wait...you must own a moon to be able to fund such production. A cap components goes fro about 5 mill a pop.
And yes my friend after 4 years, i'd be dumb not try out those elusive 0.0 alliance...big and small
"Ship reimbursement program"...what ...you mean the crap that gives you about 6 mill isk on a BC lost worth 100 mill... yeah... pretty handy, i'll give you that.
Now MY POINT (lol I love those)
please share with how you fund these "20 capital ships every two week production cycle".
WE (the rest of EvE) want a piece of that magical Pie.
And PS: This is a game...I'm not bitter...i've been seeing those cap fights since caps ship got into eve and never said a word...but back then ONE mothership Hot drop had the "Holly ****" factor, nowadays it's just a giggle...so now The new standard in "WoW" factor got the best of me ..since nothing much has changed in game mechanics since 04'
ball is in your court "20 cap" dude
When you sell a cap on the open market you can often make up-to 300-400 million per ship profit so yea its very profitable you just have to have all the skills and enough capital to cover the investment to build them which to build 20 every two weeks ( lets say he's using BPC's for the cap ships and bpo's for components ) at-least ~ 30 billion invested to make say 3-4 billion every two weeks.
you forgot the minerals fro the components ... average 5 mill of minerals PER RUN ;) and a cap requires hundreds of it... 30 bill.. that juts BPC and BPO...
again..i don,t buy that... and he just makes 8 bill profit every months...please..I can't buy that.. it,s too easy
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Haakelen
Gallente REUNI0N Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.04.23 19:21:00 -
[22]
Just because you don't understand how it works doesn't mean it doesn't work.
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faxtarious
Minmatar Kai-Zen inc.
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Posted - 2009.04.23 19:23:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Professor Dumbledore
Originally by: faxtarious
Originally by: Zetjur Jilnou
Originally by: faxtarious
let,s say i have 300 bill...where do I buy those 98 caps ?? on market ?? In Heimatar, every individual seller of these cap ships usually have one in inventory for sale, and there are not that many of them. Now how many trade hups /region does EvE has... a few... If we do a little number crunching and we push the logic a bit, let say an alliance decides to buy all of new Eden's Caps in one day... i doubt that you,ll have even 50 cap in corp hangar.
so that leaves..."special orders" and local production. read my earlier post regarding the manpower required for these kind of productions.
You aren't very bright, are you.
I personally build about 20 capital ships every two week production cycle, with just a few characters. If I can do it on my own, I'm sure alliances have no issues.
As for ISK, in most alliances I've been in, most capital ships are personally owned, with a sort of 'reimbursement' scheme where the alliance will pay out some ISK to you if you lose a capital ship in an alliance fleet fight.
You've never been in a 0.0 alliance, have you? Maybe you should give it a try and stop being so bitter.
Ahh...the miracle industrialist...I love you guys
"Just a few chars"...humm let me guess..how many accounts do you own ?
"20 capital ships every two week production cycle" wait...you must own a moon to be able to fund such production. A cap components goes fro about 5 mill a pop.
And yes my friend after 4 years, i'd be dumb not try out those elusive 0.0 alliance...big and small
"Ship reimbursement program"...what ...you mean the crap that gives you about 6 mill isk on a BC lost worth 100 mill... yeah... pretty handy, i'll give you that.
Now MY POINT (lol I love those)
please share with how you fund these "20 capital ships every two week production cycle".
WE (the rest of EvE) want a piece of that magical Pie.
And PS: This is a game...I'm not bitter...i've been seeing those cap fights since caps ship got into eve and never said a word...but back then ONE mothership Hot drop had the "Holly ****" factor, nowadays it's just a giggle...so now The new standard in "WoW" factor got the best of me ..since nothing much has changed in game mechanics since 04'
ball is in your court "20 cap" dude
When you sell a cap on the open market you can often make up-to 300-400 million per ship profit so yea its very profitable you just have to have all the skills and enough capital to cover the investment to build them which to build 20 every two weeks ( lets say he's using BPC's for the cap ships and bpo's for components ) at-least ~ 30 billion invested to make say 3-4 billion every two weeks.
and not allot of cap are on open market... if you take a look at eve central.. ..and I've never seen a seller with 20 caps in inventory in market...they usually have one or two. hell.I,ve never seen that's many BS being put on market by one seller... (I might be biased because I buy my stuff at Heimatar mostly...but please Rens in a trade hub like any other)
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faxtarious
Minmatar Kai-Zen inc.
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Posted - 2009.04.23 19:24:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Haakelen Just because you don't understand how it works doesn't mean it doesn't work.
and what is that suppose to mean...
it,s one of those catchy phrases like "You can't have your cake and eat it too"... Oh right..right, I get it.
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Slapchop Gonnalovemynuts
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Posted - 2009.04.23 19:34:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Slapchop Gonnalovemynuts on 23/04/2009 19:34:19 Wow, 90% of this thread is derailment.
You guys arguing over the whole production thing should go get your own thread in the industry forum where it belongs. --------------------------------------------
Quote: EVE-Online... Too rough for ya? Don't like it? GTFO...
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Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2009.04.23 19:34:00 -
[26]
Originally by: faxtarious
Originally by: Haakelen Just because you don't understand how it works doesn't mean it doesn't work.
and what is that suppose to mean...
it,s one of those catchy phrases like "You can't have your cake and eat it too"... Oh right..right, I get it.
Actually i'm pretty sure it just means;
Just because you don't understand how it works doesn't mean it doesn't work. ______________________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
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Cors
It's A Trap
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Posted - 2009.04.23 19:47:00 -
[27]
do you guys REALLY not understand life in 0.0?
Most major alliance's have whole industrial arms that do nothing but move fuel, mins, components, mods, ships, reactions and so on.
Most major 0.0 alliance's use the Moons in 0.0 to make BILLIONS of isk per DAY. One high end moon can make you 15 bil isk a month by itself.
On the flip side, a lot of the individuals you see in 0.0 alliance's with Supercaps and so on of their own make their isk on the market.
Imagine.. Before the most recent patch. YOu went to the test server. You saw that Stealthbombers were going to be usefull after the patch. You buy a Stealthbomber for 20 mill. After the patch, you can sell it for 30 mil. That's a 10 mil profit.
Now. Imagine you bought 100bil isk worth of said stealth bombers before the patch, then sold said stealth bombers after the patch. You'd make 50 bill isk in profit.
Ok. So we have the isk taken care off.
How about advanced production.
As an individual, if you buy a carrier off the market it'll cost you about 750-850 mil. That's the one off price.
If you're a major alliance, you've purchased all the BPO's, you've researched them all the way, and you're produceing them your selves. Me 25 Capital ship BPO's with ME 100 Component BPO's means you can build that same carrier for about 550 mil isk.
Add in the fact a major 0.0 alliance can tax your mineral refines at the outposts, and they get "free" mins. They take those mins, and give them to the industry arm to build those carriers, and they're "Free". They then give those out to members who loose carriers in combat. The insurance the members pay on their carriers replaces the fightes/mods, and you're looking at "cheap" carriers.
Most of you honestly wouldn't realise how many people in this game play the industry roles. They may be just "Support" roles, but without them, all us "Pvpers" would be ****ed. Those industry people are the linchpin of this game. Without them, NPC's would have to build everything, and we'd have to haul everything.
Today should be "kiss your industrialist day"
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Crackzilla
The Shadow Order
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Posted - 2009.04.23 19:51:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Crackzilla on 23/04/2009 19:56:21 Edited by: Crackzilla on 23/04/2009 19:55:05
Originally by: faxtarious MINING: it,s tedious and requires manpower even in 0.0 to be effective at an alliance level.
Mining isn't really worth it in 0.0 except for ice or the occasional good mins. Miners are the red headed step children of 0.0 citizens.
Originally by: faxtarious
MOON MINING:
Not unusual for corps/individuals to be running a personal moon mining op w/reactions making 50-100mil/month/moon * 5-10 moons. A high end moon is usually alliance level.
Not a bad group activity but does involve a lot of hauling. Probably not worth it for many.
Originally by: faxtarious
(200-300mil) True...But he has to rat allot...
200-300mil in a few days isn't much for ratting. If you're running multiple accounts its fairly easy to do this while out pvping on another char. Making 1bil isk in a weekend ratting isn't that impossible. Most of this just watching tv and doing something else on another char.
Originally by: faxtarious and much isk can you make of a roam ? You just had 20 other guys help you pop a raven, what do you do... pop the loot and keep it all to yourself ??
You don't take 20 other guys. You don't need 20 to pop a raven. Take t1 ships and a few people and you'll make isk off the first kill probably. Otherwise you should make 5-10mil each (ie t2 & some arbies dropped). Its not like you should be dying that often. I funded some of my first pvp bs by farming tri roaming gangs in blackbirds w/t1 support. No ninja looting.
Or camp a pipe with a recon. Get lucky and pop some haulers with towers. Isk to pvp for a month.
Lots of isk to be made in a war. Get lucky with someone trying to evac bpos. Got nearly a full t1 set this way (with mostly ship bpcs). Or probe and pick up half a dozen free recons & bs that were parked 100au out.
I won't say that pvp will always make isk but it isn't a total sinkhole.
Originally by: faxtarious a 5 hour roam (unless you are lucky to be living in curse..
After a 5 hour roam on one char I'd be irrate if my other char didn't have at least 100mil more isk in the wallet after missions/ratting. Which paid for any losses in the roam.
Originally by: faxtarious does those alliance cap pilot you talk about ever sleep
Cap ships pilots get the *best* treatment (besides maybe the fc). Last to jump into a fight, first to leave for bed. Simple methods of logistics.
Originally by: faxtarious
..and I've never seen a seller with 20 caps in inventory in market...they usually have one or two.
Just means that he's putting up a few caps per day on the market. He might be selling others to an alliance at a discount. Less profit but it is a consistent revenue stream.
Originally by: Cors ...industrialist...
The issue is you only need a hand full of them in 0.0 to run an alliance. The rest may as well be in empire or else they become dead weight. "I don't have to fight, I'm an industrialist".
Those "free" mins don't add up to that much considering the costs to run the pos's for sov, fuel, and jump bridge networks.
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Attrezzo Pox
Amarr Navy of Xoc Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.04.23 20:08:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Attrezzo Pox on 23/04/2009 20:09:23 I made 300 mil in a weekend in wh-space. 300mil is, phewt nada.
Complexes, exploration, invention, reverse engineering. If you have some of those skills it's nothing at all to make 300 mil in one sitting.
I have a life, a job, soon to have kids, and very little time to play (and though I don't fly em) I could afford to fly a cap ship.
You can make lots of money still on the market to with an empire alt. No serious hauling necessary. Those of us who've been around awhile have learned to invest extra capital in a buy low sell high scheme.
AKA, any time I go to empire I always carry some named into empire and techII into low sec and put it up for sale. Put it at a reasonable price and you just made money for making a trip you had to take anyways.
Finally, I honestly think the GTC trading was a GOOD thing in my case. It made me man up a little more because I didn't have to be afraid that there was absolutely no way out of having 0 isk. I don't like to be in debt so that was never an option. So GTCs give me a reason to say eh eff it we'll see how I do. The remarkable thing was the riskier I got the richer I got, no TCs necessary. Also, it's working the china farmers make LOTS less money for way more work. Horrah! Instead that money goes to CCP. *-------------------------* PoX IS Eve!!! BOOM!!! |
faxtarious
Minmatar Kai-Zen inc.
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Posted - 2009.04.23 20:12:00 -
[30]
inconsistent info we have another dude talking about 15 bll per month on moon mining now...
and PS: how can you run multiple account PvPing in one, ratt9ing in he other...running mission on that ..and then some...while watching TV ?
the verdict is that Most alliance have allot of members who sell GTCs...it,s simple and legal... and is done in anonymity. I've sold a few myslef... but then realised how ******ed it was then when back to PLAYING EvE for what it is (an amazing and stimulating GAME) hell go look at the gtc bazaar and see how many post have been up in the last "MINUTE"
so yeah... I'm not buying any one of the "Oh Big alliances have big industrial arms" BS or "I can run 17 account semi afk while pvping, moon mining, building caps, ratting, trading....while watching TV"
I've tested out ALL aspect of this game and came to the conclusion that it takes more than In game means to put out a 98 cap fleet...loose it on Saturday..and refit one the next day to defend that POS coming out of reinforcement.
and teh crazy thing is that i can count on my fingers how many alliances actually hold space that can barely EXPLAIN those kind of expenses...
here,s a hint: look at the alliance tourney...(ALLIANCE..wink* wink*) that,s what alliance pvp should emulate...TACTICS... Not freaking cap blobs...
I'm willing to bet my student loan that if CCP allows caps in an alliance tourney... it will be limited to one or two cap per team. Even in the back stories...i've never heard of cap blobs in Empyrean age chronicles and those Factions are suppose to be more powerful than outlawed capsuleer alliances.
My two cent...
troll away
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