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Unkn0wn
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Posted - 2004.08.30 11:08:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Unkn0wn on 30/08/2004 11:10:33 Background :: when i started my char i decided i wanted it to be mainly combat related. So i Choose amarr, then clicked anyting that was realted to combat. This ended up giving me massive willpower and very low Perception.
Problem :: I only came back to eve 2 months ago and found all the gunnry skills now were Perception based. This seemed crazy, my char was built for combat yet after the change Perception is my second lowest attributes which makes me not able to train gunnry skills very well. I understand that the new skills coming out are willpower based but i am not even close to training them yet.
So my question is Why when CCP decided to change the primary attributes for the gunnry skills why did the people that were set up to be good at training them not get the option to swap there attributes over as well.
This might seem like a crazy idea, but right now i want to train up large lasers lvl 5, its going to take ages. It seems to me that my charater that was built to train and use gunnry skills is now the one thats going to take the longest to train them because of my very low Perception. (yes i have implants and learning skills but my perception is still my second lowest aattribute)
Point of the post, none really, i very doubt it will happen, nore any CCP people will read it, i just wanted to say something. If this has been said before i am sorry.
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Unkn0wn
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Posted - 2004.08.30 11:08:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Unkn0wn on 30/08/2004 11:10:33 Background :: when i started my char i decided i wanted it to be mainly combat related. So i Choose amarr, then clicked anyting that was realted to combat. This ended up giving me massive willpower and very low Perception.
Problem :: I only came back to eve 2 months ago and found all the gunnry skills now were Perception based. This seemed crazy, my char was built for combat yet after the change Perception is my second lowest attributes which makes me not able to train gunnry skills very well. I understand that the new skills coming out are willpower based but i am not even close to training them yet.
So my question is Why when CCP decided to change the primary attributes for the gunnry skills why did the people that were set up to be good at training them not get the option to swap there attributes over as well.
This might seem like a crazy idea, but right now i want to train up large lasers lvl 5, its going to take ages. It seems to me that my charater that was built to train and use gunnry skills is now the one thats going to take the longest to train them because of my very low Perception. (yes i have implants and learning skills but my perception is still my second lowest aattribute)
Point of the post, none really, i very doubt it will happen, nore any CCP people will read it, i just wanted to say something. If this has been said before i am sorry.
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Dami
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Posted - 2004.08.30 16:34:00 -
[3]
All the previous gunnery skills were perception based so its nothing new. I really dont know why there are such characters as your self available when its obviously that fighter != willpower. If you select minmatar for instance you can get perception up to 14 (on start).
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Dami
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Posted - 2004.08.30 16:34:00 -
[4]
All the previous gunnery skills were perception based so its nothing new. I really dont know why there are such characters as your self available when its obviously that fighter != willpower. If you select minmatar for instance you can get perception up to 14 (on start).
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Nafri
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Posted - 2004.08.30 22:23:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Dami All the previous gunnery skills were perception based so its nothing new. I really dont know why there are such characters as your self available when its obviously that fighter != willpower. If you select minmatar for instance you can get perception up to 14 (on start).
well it got switched sometimes at the beginning Wanna fly with me?
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Nafri
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Posted - 2004.08.30 22:23:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Dami All the previous gunnery skills were perception based so its nothing new. I really dont know why there are such characters as your self available when its obviously that fighter != willpower. If you select minmatar for instance you can get perception up to 14 (on start).
well it got switched sometimes at the beginning Wanna fly with me?
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Shevar
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Posted - 2004.08.30 22:31:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Nafri
Originally by: Dami All the previous gunnery skills were perception based so its nothing new. I really dont know why there are such characters as your self available when its obviously that fighter != willpower. If you select minmatar for instance you can get perception up to 14 (on start).
well it got switched sometimes at the beginning
Sometime around castor IIRC. -------- -The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs
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Shevar
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Posted - 2004.08.30 22:31:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Nafri
Originally by: Dami All the previous gunnery skills were perception based so its nothing new. I really dont know why there are such characters as your self available when its obviously that fighter != willpower. If you select minmatar for instance you can get perception up to 14 (on start).
well it got switched sometimes at the beginning
Sometime around castor IIRC. -------- -The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs
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Athule Snanm
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Posted - 2004.09.03 10:45:00 -
[9]
Yep, and I hope they don't change it back as it'll only exchange gimping a whole new set of players for gimping a whole set of older ones.
It's all very well to say combat != willpower but at the time Amarrian combat characters were given willpower points at creation (if I remember correctly) and the printed manual does actually say that willpower is useful for combat skills. The only reason I can see it being changed was that either a) whoever made the decision/managed to convince the devs doesn't play the game for real or b) had a character with high perception and low willpower. Considering the number of threads started on weapons balancing I find it a bit rubbish that this change just came in with no warning or consultation suddenly.
Like I said, it's too late to do anything about this, but I really hope it never, ever, happens again. Unlike skill/module balancing, attribute changes have a permanent effect on people.
_______________________________
Doomheim - EVE's only hygiene! |

Athule Snanm
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Posted - 2004.09.03 10:45:00 -
[10]
Yep, and I hope they don't change it back as it'll only exchange gimping a whole new set of players for gimping a whole set of older ones.
It's all very well to say combat != willpower but at the time Amarrian combat characters were given willpower points at creation (if I remember correctly) and the printed manual does actually say that willpower is useful for combat skills. The only reason I can see it being changed was that either a) whoever made the decision/managed to convince the devs doesn't play the game for real or b) had a character with high perception and low willpower. Considering the number of threads started on weapons balancing I find it a bit rubbish that this change just came in with no warning or consultation suddenly.
Like I said, it's too late to do anything about this, but I really hope it never, ever, happens again. Unlike skill/module balancing, attribute changes have a permanent effect on people.
_______________________________
Doomheim - EVE's only hygiene! |
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Valentine Keen
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Posted - 2004.09.03 12:04:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Valentine Keen on 03/09/2004 12:07:06 The change was pre-castor, and very annoying. It effectively nerfed the entire Amarr race - they just always have high willpower and less on other attributes. (The starting stats have never been altered, like the unused starting skills, you can be dealt a nerfed hand before you even log in.)
With the change they made, Willpower is used in even less skills than Charisma is, so it effectively means Amarr characters train on average slower than anyone else. 
That's one of the reasons when I came back after time away, I started as Minmatar, rather than the Amarr I'd been before.
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Valentine Keen
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Posted - 2004.09.03 12:04:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Valentine Keen on 03/09/2004 12:07:06 The change was pre-castor, and very annoying. It effectively nerfed the entire Amarr race - they just always have high willpower and less on other attributes. (The starting stats have never been altered, like the unused starting skills, you can be dealt a nerfed hand before you even log in.)
With the change they made, Willpower is used in even less skills than Charisma is, so it effectively means Amarr characters train on average slower than anyone else. 
That's one of the reasons when I came back after time away, I started as Minmatar, rather than the Amarr I'd been before.
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Eyeshadow
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Posted - 2004.09.03 12:33:00 -
[13]
see the other post u made, charisma is not used more than willpower
Forums: Sharks - MC |

Eyeshadow
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Posted - 2004.09.03 12:33:00 -
[14]
see the other post u made, charisma is not used more than willpower
Forums: Sharks - MC |

Valentine Keen
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Posted - 2004.09.03 12:55:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Valentine Keen on 03/09/2004 12:57:25 Fine, I stand corrected, I hadn't thought it was in gunnery and starship command - I thought gunnery had a different one.
Either way, the change hurt the Amarr more than anyone else.
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Valentine Keen
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Posted - 2004.09.03 12:55:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Valentine Keen on 03/09/2004 12:57:25 Fine, I stand corrected, I hadn't thought it was in gunnery and starship command - I thought gunnery had a different one.
Either way, the change hurt the Amarr more than anyone else.
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Free4You
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Posted - 2004.09.04 05:44:00 -
[17]
Willpower is my lowest stat, 8 with lvl 4 iron will, so its what you put your stat points into, as a custom char.
15 percep and 13 memory and 12 intell and 12 char with lvl 4 learning skills =P
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Free4You
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Posted - 2004.09.04 05:44:00 -
[18]
Willpower is my lowest stat, 8 with lvl 4 iron will, so its what you put your stat points into, as a custom char.
15 percep and 13 memory and 12 intell and 12 char with lvl 4 learning skills =P
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Valentine Keen
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Posted - 2004.09.04 08:02:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Free4You Willpower is my lowest stat, 8 with lvl 4 iron will, so its what you put your stat points into, as a custom char.
15 percep and 13 memory and 12 intell and 12 char with lvl 4 learning skills =P
Amarr-> Ni Kunni-> Free Merchant or Border Runner.
I think they're the only combinations that can achieve that. The third Ni Kunni choice gives 8 minimum. All 3 Pure Amarr choice are 10 or higher (10 unmodified, 11 or 14 at worst).
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Valentine Keen
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Posted - 2004.09.04 08:02:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Free4You Willpower is my lowest stat, 8 with lvl 4 iron will, so its what you put your stat points into, as a custom char.
15 percep and 13 memory and 12 intell and 12 char with lvl 4 learning skills =P
Amarr-> Ni Kunni-> Free Merchant or Border Runner.
I think they're the only combinations that can achieve that. The third Ni Kunni choice gives 8 minimum. All 3 Pure Amarr choice are 10 or higher (10 unmodified, 11 or 14 at worst).
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toaster
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Posted - 2004.09.08 15:51:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Unkn0wn Edited by: Unkn0wn on 30/08/2004 11:10:33 Background :: when i started my char i decided i wanted it to be mainly combat related. So i Choose amarr, then clicked anyting that was realted to combat. This ended up giving me massive willpower and very low Perception.
Problem :: I only came back to eve 2 months ago and found all the gunnry skills now were Perception based. This seemed crazy, my char was built for combat yet after the change Perception is my second lowest attributes which makes me not able to train gunnry skills very well. I understand that the new skills coming out are willpower based but i am not even close to training them yet.
So my question is Why when CCP decided to change the primary attributes for the gunnry skills why did the people that were set up to be good at training them not get the option to swap there attributes over as well.
This might seem like a crazy idea, but right now i want to train up large lasers lvl 5, its going to take ages. It seems to me that my charater that was built to train and use gunnry skills is now the one thats going to take the longest to train them because of my very low Perception. (yes i have implants and learning skills but my perception is still my second lowest aattribute)
Point of the post, none really, i very doubt it will happen, nore any CCP people will read it, i just wanted to say something. If this has been said before i am sorry.
welome to the club, but it was spaceship command that they switched. Used to be gunnery = perception main driver, spaceship = willpower main driver. They nerfed willpower so that now anything in gunnery or spaceship command, basically everything combat related is perception driven.
Some of us that started our characters in the beginning got screwed pretty hard since we created our characters before people knew what was going on with attributes. Then the nerf came and now if your perception is low you are pretty much guaranteed to get passed up by everyone if you are a PvPer. I got some carebear buddies that started 3 months after me that are passing me in skillpoints cause of the perception thing (granted I never used implants cause i've been PvPing for 7+ months now...too risky in small fleets which is what we primarily flew in).
There were so many changes in the beginning of the game that I didn't create a new character based on the willpower nerf, I just held on for the wild ccp-nerf-ride and hoped the nerf bat would swing my way but it never did.
Oh well, there are plenty more nerfs coming so who knows what will happen. ------------------------------------------------
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toaster
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Posted - 2004.09.08 15:51:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Unkn0wn Edited by: Unkn0wn on 30/08/2004 11:10:33 Background :: when i started my char i decided i wanted it to be mainly combat related. So i Choose amarr, then clicked anyting that was realted to combat. This ended up giving me massive willpower and very low Perception.
Problem :: I only came back to eve 2 months ago and found all the gunnry skills now were Perception based. This seemed crazy, my char was built for combat yet after the change Perception is my second lowest attributes which makes me not able to train gunnry skills very well. I understand that the new skills coming out are willpower based but i am not even close to training them yet.
So my question is Why when CCP decided to change the primary attributes for the gunnry skills why did the people that were set up to be good at training them not get the option to swap there attributes over as well.
This might seem like a crazy idea, but right now i want to train up large lasers lvl 5, its going to take ages. It seems to me that my charater that was built to train and use gunnry skills is now the one thats going to take the longest to train them because of my very low Perception. (yes i have implants and learning skills but my perception is still my second lowest aattribute)
Point of the post, none really, i very doubt it will happen, nore any CCP people will read it, i just wanted to say something. If this has been said before i am sorry.
welome to the club, but it was spaceship command that they switched. Used to be gunnery = perception main driver, spaceship = willpower main driver. They nerfed willpower so that now anything in gunnery or spaceship command, basically everything combat related is perception driven.
Some of us that started our characters in the beginning got screwed pretty hard since we created our characters before people knew what was going on with attributes. Then the nerf came and now if your perception is low you are pretty much guaranteed to get passed up by everyone if you are a PvPer. I got some carebear buddies that started 3 months after me that are passing me in skillpoints cause of the perception thing (granted I never used implants cause i've been PvPing for 7+ months now...too risky in small fleets which is what we primarily flew in).
There were so many changes in the beginning of the game that I didn't create a new character based on the willpower nerf, I just held on for the wild ccp-nerf-ride and hoped the nerf bat would swing my way but it never did.
Oh well, there are plenty more nerfs coming so who knows what will happen. ------------------------------------------------
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Nerhtal Al'Thali
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Posted - 2004.09.09 00:19:00 -
[23]
I was extremely lucky as i remade a character 1 week into the game.
I have utterly **** intelligence and memory but a perception of 20 and a willpower of 23.
Trained a lot of early willpower/perc skills such as small guns and gunnery itself and the frigate skills at the start i think were will/perc...
Still, i never learnt about learning untill castor (had at 3 for about 6 months eeeek!)
As such im only a almost 16miller now
"Game Experience And Dev Opinions May Change With The Time Of Day During Online Play" Oveur
"First in, last out" Bridgeburner Motto |

Nerhtal Al'Thali
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Posted - 2004.09.09 00:19:00 -
[24]
I was extremely lucky as i remade a character 1 week into the game.
I have utterly **** intelligence and memory but a perception of 20 and a willpower of 23.
Trained a lot of early willpower/perc skills such as small guns and gunnery itself and the frigate skills at the start i think were will/perc...
Still, i never learnt about learning untill castor (had at 3 for about 6 months eeeek!)
As such im only a almost 16miller now
"Game Experience And Dev Opinions May Change With The Time Of Day During Online Play" Oveur
"First in, last out" Bridgeburner Motto |

Baal Ammon
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Posted - 2004.09.09 19:09:00 -
[25]
Primary versus Secondary makes no difference, as it's an average of those two attributes when determining your skill points per minute.
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Baal Ammon
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Posted - 2004.09.09 19:09:00 -
[26]
Primary versus Secondary makes no difference, as it's an average of those two attributes when determining your skill points per minute.
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Rhyslin
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Posted - 2004.09.10 00:36:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Baal Ammon Primary versus Secondary makes no difference, as it's an average of those two attributes when determining your skill points per minute.
I can see why you might think that, but it's not an average. It is P + (S/2), not (P + S)/2 |

Rhyslin
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Posted - 2004.09.10 00:36:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Baal Ammon Primary versus Secondary makes no difference, as it's an average of those two attributes when determining your skill points per minute.
I can see why you might think that, but it's not an average. It is P + (S/2), not (P + S)/2 |

Tripoli
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Posted - 2004.09.10 06:54:00 -
[29]
It really does amaze me how many people neglect to read this Sticky at the top of this forum. 
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Tripoli
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Posted - 2004.09.10 06:54:00 -
[30]
It really does amaze me how many people neglect to read this Sticky at the top of this forum. 
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