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Tharrn
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Posted - 2004.08.31 12:51:00 -
[1]
Truely dark are the times we are living in. Faith and the scriptures are cast aside when profit is in sight. Last night that despicable beast Odent returned to Amarr to order 200.000 slaves and especially one individual was only to eager to comply and deliver 'the ware'.
What is the Amarrian outlook on slaves and slavery? Are slaves a mere 'ware', does our responsibility end with the deal we make with an alien who claims to act on behalf of a 'Holder in Gallente'? Is it not our responsibility to ensure that those we have taken under our wings to teach them the message of the scriptures and to show them the light of the one truely get the chance to be enlightened? Has the spirit of reclaiming died and made room for the spirit of personal profit at all cost?
Odent has been reported to have 'freed' the last load of slaves he bought from those greedy individuals (I refuse to call them Amarrian) who tried to beat each other in exchanging slaves for Vitoc when he last visited. Every faithfull Amarrian would refuse to do business with the Intaki until he has proven his innocence. Twohundredthousand slaves will be cast back into the darkness of their pagan belief. Twohundredthousand slaves will be bereft of their chance to save their eternal souls. If Odent sets them free those who closed their ears to the faithfull will rightfully burn in hell.
Greed and the mingling with unbelievers will be the downfall of the Empire. God sees through the thinly veiled excuses of those who are selling off our traditions and have forgotten the reclaiming. The names of the sinners are noted in the book of life and the faithfull will not forget them.
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Tharrn
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Posted - 2004.08.31 12:51:00 -
[2]
Truely dark are the times we are living in. Faith and the scriptures are cast aside when profit is in sight. Last night that despicable beast Odent returned to Amarr to order 200.000 slaves and especially one individual was only to eager to comply and deliver 'the ware'.
What is the Amarrian outlook on slaves and slavery? Are slaves a mere 'ware', does our responsibility end with the deal we make with an alien who claims to act on behalf of a 'Holder in Gallente'? Is it not our responsibility to ensure that those we have taken under our wings to teach them the message of the scriptures and to show them the light of the one truely get the chance to be enlightened? Has the spirit of reclaiming died and made room for the spirit of personal profit at all cost?
Odent has been reported to have 'freed' the last load of slaves he bought from those greedy individuals (I refuse to call them Amarrian) who tried to beat each other in exchanging slaves for Vitoc when he last visited. Every faithfull Amarrian would refuse to do business with the Intaki until he has proven his innocence. Twohundredthousand slaves will be cast back into the darkness of their pagan belief. Twohundredthousand slaves will be bereft of their chance to save their eternal souls. If Odent sets them free those who closed their ears to the faithfull will rightfully burn in hell.
Greed and the mingling with unbelievers will be the downfall of the Empire. God sees through the thinly veiled excuses of those who are selling off our traditions and have forgotten the reclaiming. The names of the sinners are noted in the book of life and the faithfull will not forget them.
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Lorna Doone
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Posted - 2004.08.31 13:02:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Tharrn Is it not our responsibility to ensure that those we have taken under our wings to teach them the message of the scriptures and to show them the light of the one truely get the chance to be enlightened?
No, frankly, it is not.
Every individual has the inalienable right to decide which belief system (if any) they follow. They also have the right to decide where they live, who they work for and who they associate with.
Your responsibility is to respect that right and quit forcing your beliefs down everybody's throat.
--------------------------------------------------------------- "Meantime, all around me is violence and robbery, coarse delight and savage pain, reckless joke and hopeless death." |
Lorna Doone
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Posted - 2004.08.31 13:02:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Tharrn Is it not our responsibility to ensure that those we have taken under our wings to teach them the message of the scriptures and to show them the light of the one truely get the chance to be enlightened?
No, frankly, it is not.
Every individual has the inalienable right to decide which belief system (if any) they follow. They also have the right to decide where they live, who they work for and who they associate with.
Your responsibility is to respect that right and quit forcing your beliefs down everybody's throat.
--------------------------------------------------------------- "Meantime, all around me is violence and robbery, coarse delight and savage pain, reckless joke and hopeless death." |
Hardin
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Posted - 2004.08.31 13:31:00 -
[5]
Tharrn
At the end of the day Odent is feeding the market with his actions.
Those Holders who sold their slaves to him will now replensish their stock and, I hope, will be using the profits of their trade to ensure that their slaves receive the necessary religious education and training to bring them to enlightenment.
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Hardin
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Posted - 2004.08.31 13:31:00 -
[6]
Tharrn
At the end of the day Odent is feeding the market with his actions.
Those Holders who sold their slaves to him will now replensish their stock and, I hope, will be using the profits of their trade to ensure that their slaves receive the necessary religious education and training to bring them to enlightenment.
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Tharrn
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Posted - 2004.08.31 13:54:00 -
[7]
How shall they receive enlightenment when they have been sold off to be 'freed'? I fail to understand that.
So your stance is that it is in the spirit of tradition and the reclaiming to close our eyes as to what happens to the slaves we sell? So the 'freedom fighters' are in essence evil because they do not pay for their goods?
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Tharrn
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Posted - 2004.08.31 13:54:00 -
[8]
How shall they receive enlightenment when they have been sold off to be 'freed'? I fail to understand that.
So your stance is that it is in the spirit of tradition and the reclaiming to close our eyes as to what happens to the slaves we sell? So the 'freedom fighters' are in essence evil because they do not pay for their goods?
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Gaius Kador
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Posted - 2004.08.31 14:10:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Tharrn So your stance is that it is in the spirit of tradition and the reclaiming to close our eyes as to what happens to the slaves we sell? So the 'freedom fighters' are in essence evil because they do not pay for their goods?
Thats a bit harsh Tharrn...
I dont like this one bit either, but what one chooses to do with ones property is down to the individual. If that individual decides to forsake his divine training in search of profit.. we stand and can do little.
I would like to hear from this buyer!!! What reasons he has!!! ----------------------------------------------
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Gaius Kador
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Posted - 2004.08.31 14:10:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Tharrn So your stance is that it is in the spirit of tradition and the reclaiming to close our eyes as to what happens to the slaves we sell? So the 'freedom fighters' are in essence evil because they do not pay for their goods?
Thats a bit harsh Tharrn...
I dont like this one bit either, but what one chooses to do with ones property is down to the individual. If that individual decides to forsake his divine training in search of profit.. we stand and can do little.
I would like to hear from this buyer!!! What reasons he has!!! ----------------------------------------------
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Hardin
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Posted - 2004.08.31 14:21:00 -
[11]
Yes it is a bit harsh Tharrn as my statement wasn't advocating it, just providing some explanation for why the Holders acted as they did.
I would assume that those slaves sold had already received a certain amount of education and even now may be spreading their knowledge of the scriptures among their ignorant Minmatar brothers.
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Hardin
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Posted - 2004.08.31 14:21:00 -
[12]
Yes it is a bit harsh Tharrn as my statement wasn't advocating it, just providing some explanation for why the Holders acted as they did.
I would assume that those slaves sold had already received a certain amount of education and even now may be spreading their knowledge of the scriptures among their ignorant Minmatar brothers.
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Jim Hawkins
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Posted - 2004.08.31 14:22:00 -
[13]
No amount of profit can save a soul from eternal damnation and no amount of isk can buy salvation.
I share your concerns Tharrn, but do not take one man's weakness as a sign that Amarr's traditions are on the wane.
As always, consider the long-term. These 200,000 may be lost for now, but eventually all will see the light thanks to our guiding hand, and they will thank us for it.
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Jim Hawkins
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Posted - 2004.08.31 14:22:00 -
[14]
No amount of profit can save a soul from eternal damnation and no amount of isk can buy salvation.
I share your concerns Tharrn, but do not take one man's weakness as a sign that Amarr's traditions are on the wane.
As always, consider the long-term. These 200,000 may be lost for now, but eventually all will see the light thanks to our guiding hand, and they will thank us for it.
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Discorporation
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Posted - 2004.08.31 14:31:00 -
[15]
Everytime you so-called upholders of the Amarrian empires mention 'enlightenment' in combination with the slaves we crave, you make my skin crawl..
Get it though your head that slavery is what the Empire is founded on. Working slaves to death is what we do. When we run out, we purchase, raid or breed new ones. This is how the empire works, it's not some kind of charity institution designed to make slaves 'see the light' or become' enlightened' in any way.
It's about cheap labour and our need to be the dominant species. Nothing more.
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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Discorporation
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Posted - 2004.08.31 14:31:00 -
[16]
Everytime you so-called upholders of the Amarrian empires mention 'enlightenment' in combination with the slaves we crave, you make my skin crawl..
Get it though your head that slavery is what the Empire is founded on. Working slaves to death is what we do. When we run out, we purchase, raid or breed new ones. This is how the empire works, it's not some kind of charity institution designed to make slaves 'see the light' or become' enlightened' in any way.
It's about cheap labour and our need to be the dominant species. Nothing more.
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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Jim Hawkins
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Posted - 2004.08.31 14:50:00 -
[17]
The Amarr are God's chosen people, no-one will ever be our equal. However, this does not mean that all lesser races will forever be enslaved in the way the Minmatar currently are - the Ni-Kunni and Udorians can testify to that.
It is better to work happily in the service of humanity and God than to work begrudgingly. Our humanitarion efforts in enlightening the souls of the Minmatar race will ensure this and secure their salvation - despite your cynical views, Discorporation.
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Jim Hawkins
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Posted - 2004.08.31 14:50:00 -
[18]
The Amarr are God's chosen people, no-one will ever be our equal. However, this does not mean that all lesser races will forever be enslaved in the way the Minmatar currently are - the Ni-Kunni and Udorians can testify to that.
It is better to work happily in the service of humanity and God than to work begrudgingly. Our humanitarion efforts in enlightening the souls of the Minmatar race will ensure this and secure their salvation - despite your cynical views, Discorporation.
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Tharrn
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Posted - 2004.08.31 15:00:00 -
[19]
The problem is that most holders see it exactly the way Discorporation does. In many cases it has nothing to do with faith or spreading the word of the one anymore: slaves are seen as cattle and a ware - the means to further the wellbeing of the master only. I'll have to meditate over this.
My statement may have been harsh but I am trying to understand where Amarr is standing and where it is heading.
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Tharrn
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Posted - 2004.08.31 15:00:00 -
[20]
The problem is that most holders see it exactly the way Discorporation does. In many cases it has nothing to do with faith or spreading the word of the one anymore: slaves are seen as cattle and a ware - the means to further the wellbeing of the master only. I'll have to meditate over this.
My statement may have been harsh but I am trying to understand where Amarr is standing and where it is heading.
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Discorporation
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Posted - 2004.08.31 15:10:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Jim Hawkins The Amarr are God's chosen people, no-one will ever be our equal. However, this does not mean that all lesser races will forever be enslaved in the way the Minmatar currently are - the Ni-Kunni and Udorians can testify to that.
That happened thousands of years ago.
Originally by: Jim Hawkins It is better to work happily in the service of humanity and God than to work begrudgingly. Our humanitarion efforts in enlightening the souls of the Minmatar race will ensure this and secure their salvation - despite your cynical views, Discorporation.
They don't work 'begrudgingly'. They're forced to work. If they don't comply, we drug and implant them so they obey.
It's not about enlightening them or about salvation. Hasn't been for a long, long time.
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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Discorporation
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Posted - 2004.08.31 15:10:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Jim Hawkins The Amarr are God's chosen people, no-one will ever be our equal. However, this does not mean that all lesser races will forever be enslaved in the way the Minmatar currently are - the Ni-Kunni and Udorians can testify to that.
That happened thousands of years ago.
Originally by: Jim Hawkins It is better to work happily in the service of humanity and God than to work begrudgingly. Our humanitarion efforts in enlightening the souls of the Minmatar race will ensure this and secure their salvation - despite your cynical views, Discorporation.
They don't work 'begrudgingly'. They're forced to work. If they don't comply, we drug and implant them so they obey.
It's not about enlightening them or about salvation. Hasn't been for a long, long time.
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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Jim Hawkins
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Posted - 2004.08.31 15:53:00 -
[23]
With respect, the Minmatar don't willingly accept the use of drugs and implants. Certainly the terrorist forces that PIE encounter seem to begrudge there use. My point is, that with our guidance, there would be no need for drugs and implants as these individuals would work for us willingly in the service of Empire.
Yes, it may have been 1,000 or so years before this was last achieved, but what is a millenia to an eternal God. Patience is a virtue.
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Jim Hawkins
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Posted - 2004.08.31 15:53:00 -
[24]
With respect, the Minmatar don't willingly accept the use of drugs and implants. Certainly the terrorist forces that PIE encounter seem to begrudge there use. My point is, that with our guidance, there would be no need for drugs and implants as these individuals would work for us willingly in the service of Empire.
Yes, it may have been 1,000 or so years before this was last achieved, but what is a millenia to an eternal God. Patience is a virtue.
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Ardor
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Posted - 2004.08.31 16:01:00 -
[25]
Yesterday Sister Wheya sold 100 slaves for a price of 100 units of Vitoc to Odent as a symbolic gesture. I am willing to make this deal with anybody else.
My slaves are my property. I can sell them. I can make them work for me. I can punish them. I can kill them. I can free them. Nobody tells me what to do with my slaves.
All this talk about instant enlightment is nonsense. I have slaves in numbers I cant count. I dont know my slaves by name. I dont sit each night beside their bed to hold their hands and to read the holy scriptures for them before they are going to sleep.
What I am doing is to give them work and to teach them to be obedient. Maybe in a few hundred years after a long time of sorting out the foul and after they have forgotten all their primitive tribal roots a few of their childrens children might be able to understand the glory of our God.
Those who are talking about instant enlightment achieve nothing. You press the holy words into their tiny brains while those primitive creatures are not capable to really understand. Slaves are a trade good worth less than livestock. I dont care if slave number 46709776 hasnt learned his part of the scriptures today. I dont have the time to care for such details.
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Ardor
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Posted - 2004.08.31 16:01:00 -
[26]
Yesterday Sister Wheya sold 100 slaves for a price of 100 units of Vitoc to Odent as a symbolic gesture. I am willing to make this deal with anybody else.
My slaves are my property. I can sell them. I can make them work for me. I can punish them. I can kill them. I can free them. Nobody tells me what to do with my slaves.
All this talk about instant enlightment is nonsense. I have slaves in numbers I cant count. I dont know my slaves by name. I dont sit each night beside their bed to hold their hands and to read the holy scriptures for them before they are going to sleep.
What I am doing is to give them work and to teach them to be obedient. Maybe in a few hundred years after a long time of sorting out the foul and after they have forgotten all their primitive tribal roots a few of their childrens children might be able to understand the glory of our God.
Those who are talking about instant enlightment achieve nothing. You press the holy words into their tiny brains while those primitive creatures are not capable to really understand. Slaves are a trade good worth less than livestock. I dont care if slave number 46709776 hasnt learned his part of the scriptures today. I dont have the time to care for such details.
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Discorporation
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Posted - 2004.08.31 16:06:00 -
[27]
I truly think that following Doctrine has made you incapable of seeing it from the slave's point of view.
They don't want guidance, they don't want enlightenment, they just want the pain to stop.
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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Discorporation
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Posted - 2004.08.31 16:06:00 -
[28]
I truly think that following Doctrine has made you incapable of seeing it from the slave's point of view.
They don't want guidance, they don't want enlightenment, they just want the pain to stop.
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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Jim Hawkins
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Posted - 2004.08.31 16:18:00 -
[29]
I don't think anyone is talking about 'instant enlightenment' Ardor. If enlightenment comes at all, it will take time.
And whoever cared about the slaves 'point of view' Discorporation. Surely it is our view that matters - hence the teachings and the education.
Needless to say, I doubt we'll ever see eye to eye on this issue. That is unimportant. What is important is that Amarr, with all of its traditions and in all of its glory, continues forever in the service of God.
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Jim Hawkins
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Posted - 2004.08.31 16:18:00 -
[30]
I don't think anyone is talking about 'instant enlightenment' Ardor. If enlightenment comes at all, it will take time.
And whoever cared about the slaves 'point of view' Discorporation. Surely it is our view that matters - hence the teachings and the education.
Needless to say, I doubt we'll ever see eye to eye on this issue. That is unimportant. What is important is that Amarr, with all of its traditions and in all of its glory, continues forever in the service of God.
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