Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 .. 29 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 14 post(s) |
Bronson Hughes
ADVANCED Combat and Engineering
|
Posted - 2009.05.18 18:09:00 -
[751]
Originally by: CCP Chronotis Pure win in a bottle
And that, folks, is why the Nag is the new Rev. Solid tank, good DPS, citadel torps that don't suck. Heck, after these changes there won't be much of anything for any Dread pilot to complain about:
1. Nag got fixed 2. Citadel torps got fixed (velocity and explosion velocity buffs) so the Phoenix will be useful against non-POS targets 3. The changeover from armor-tanking to shield-tanking the Nag got made far less painful (assuming people read about this now instead of later)
I love it. -------------------- "I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne |
Hun Jakuza
Guargumi INC.
|
Posted - 2009.05.18 19:18:00 -
[752]
Edited by: Hun Jakuza on 18/05/2009 19:19:33
Originally by: Bronson Hughes
Well, when you consider that non-Moros pilots can very easily get away with using T1 drones, yeah it's a big deal. Each capital turret requires a rank 5 skill at V as a prereq. Citadel torps only requires a rank 4 skill to V as a prereq. T2 Heavy Drones and Sentry Drones each ....
The Moros technically requires more weapons training than the Naglfar does. Nobody complains about it because the secondary weapon system is far more useful than citadel torps, but the training requirement is there nonetheless.
Fail again. T1 dr0nes for another capital pilots ? This is not thrue. All good pilots need t2 drones. So, drones learning time equal with Moros pilot and for others. (I can use t2 drones like ogre , berserker etc too and i'm not a moros pilot)
We see it the weapon system trainingtimes:
Learn any capital guns from lvl0 gunskill to lv5 capital guns skill (short or longrange) need ~52 days. Citadel torpedo launcher need ~52 days too from lvl0 missiles skill to lvl5 cit. torp. launcher skill.
Moros pilot need 2x52 (2x capital guntype) days + drone skill (drones equal for all pilot) Naglfar pilot need 3x52 day (2x capital guntype + 52 days cap. torp training time) + drone skill
Results: +52 days longer learning time for Naglfar pilot
Originally by: Bronson Hughes
I will grant you that Naglfar pilots having to train capital shield boosters for their previously armor-tanked Nag is a pain. No two ways around it, having to train new skills for a ship that you used to be able to fly sucks. But the end result is a better dread is so many ways that none of the Nag pilots that I've asked about it really mind.
The Niddy can be shield tanked almost as effectively as it can be armor tanked (similar tank, more cap regen, fewer utility midslots); the only reason that everyone armor tanks them is this annoying perception that 'ZOMG armor is better for PvP'.
If you still think that both Minny caps are 'b*llsh*t', you have a lot to learn.
+1 midslot: 15 mins ago you told a idiotic version, with -1 mid slot you make it better tank than Phoenix, and you now told again another terrible ideas. Everyone thinking about, armor tank better for PVP ? No, but Nidh work better with armor tank than shield tank. This is the reason why using many pilot on Nidhoggur armor tank. This is the reason, why could learning two tanktypes for minmatars. Learn like Maelstrom and Phoon. Now we lost again so mutch learning time against another faction of pilot. Another wasting of time: one capital tanktype need to lvl5 two months learning time. Remember 52days longer weapon system training time + two months repair system training time. Tiger's Spirit reckoned, when she said that it is necessary to learn by 4 months much longer than others.
Originally by: Bronson Hughes ..the new Nag does the best damage of the dreads. Go read back a few pages and look at the math for yourself. There's even pretty graphs to show it.
Pretty much every active tanked Phoenix that I've ever seen uses one of its seven midslots for a cap recharger. So you drop that CR and add another CPR in your extra low slot and you know what you have? The pretty much the exact same tank that you have on a Phoenix with better cap stability so you can run it longer.
Oh my... again You can use one CPR in low slot told you, but the Phoenix pilots say for you , we not need split damage mods on low slot and we can use more. You just try to whinning but not using your brain. +1 mid slot better for shield tank and need to low just BCS. Naglfar need BS + gyrostab. Allright your next words a will not to use BCS, what i will say ? You need try using 2 Citadel torp without damage mods.In siege you will hit below 1000dps :D Oh and you said 60km-150km. I'll say 60km ? Moros use with drones and rail 4400dps, Naglfar 4100 and distances need another bullettypes XL EMP not good, you will lost almost half of your damage reason: missed shot,scraching etc.
|
Bronson Hughes
ADVANCED Combat and Engineering
|
Posted - 2009.05.18 20:05:00 -
[753]
Originally by: Hun Jakuza Learn any capital guns from lvl0 gunskill to lv5 capital guns skill (short or longrange) need ~52 days. Citadel torpedo launcher need ~52 days too from lvl0 missiles skill to lvl5 cit. torp. launcher skill.
Moros pilot need 2x52 (2x capital guntype) days + drone skill (drones equal for all pilot) Naglfar pilot need 3x52 day (2x capital guntype + 52 days cap. torp training time) + drone skill
Wrong. Citadel torps do not take as long to train as Capital Turrets. The prereq. skill (Torpedoes) is only rank 4, whereas all of the Large Turret skills are rank 5. So shave about 10 days off of your 'required' training.
Also, assuming time spent training from zero skill is just plain silly. Any aspiring Minmatar BS pilot should have Large Projectiles and Torpedoes trained to IV before focusing on battleship/dread training. The only case where your numbers would hold is if you have a Gallente or Amarr pilot with zero missile skills suddenly deciding to cross-train into a Naglfar.
I'm not going to argue with you about whether T2 Sentries/Heavies are 'required' for a Moros as opposed to other dreads; it's a matter of opinion. Many pilots I know hardly consider them 'required' for a dread aside from the Moros but to each their own.
Originally by: Hun Jakuza Tiger's Spirit reckoned, when she said that it is necessary to learn by 4 months much longer than others.
That estimate is assuming the extra time used to train for the split weapon system (which is perfectly valid) along with training both capital shield and armor tanks. Someone training for the Nag right now isn't going to bother train capital armor reppers because it's such a better shield tanker now. Also, with the upcoming change to the prereqs to capital shield boosters (Shield Management V and Engineering V), your 'required' training time takes another hit because these are basic skills that any capital ship pilot should already have trained. Rather like your T2 Heavy and Sentry drones....
So is the Naglfar a pain to train for because of its split weapon system? Absolutely. I never said it wasn't. It's a Minmatar ship and pretty much the entire Minnie line of ships is a pain to train for. It's just not nearly as bad as people are complaining about and not the only dread that has the problem. -------------------- "I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne |
Hun Jakuza
Guargumi INC.
|
Posted - 2009.05.18 20:38:00 -
[754]
Edited by: Hun Jakuza on 18/05/2009 20:41:33
Originally by: Hun Jakuza Learn any capital guns from lvl0 gunskill to lv5 capital guns skill (short or longrange) need ~52 days. Citadel torpedo launcher need ~52 days too from lvl0 missiles skill to lvl5 cit. torp. launcher skill.
Moros pilot need 2x52 (2x capital guntype) days + drone skill (drones equal for all pilot) Naglfar pilot need 3x52 day (2x capital guntype + 52 days cap. torp training time) + drone skill
Originally by: Bronson Hughes
Wrong. Citadel torps do not take as long to train as Capital Turrets. The prereq. skill (Torpedoes) is only rank 4, whereas all of the Large Turret skills are rank 5. So shave about 10 days off of your 'required' training.
What do you talk about ?
Your large guns learning need 2 days longer than rank4 topedoes because that's it rank 5 skill, but torpedoes need missile launcher operations 5 so, thats need 5 days learning time. Which one longer from 0 skill ?
And another thing, all capital turret skill is rank 7 skill. Ok you are a noob and you using them at lvl0 :D but the PPL using them at lvl5. Thas all need over 30 days to lvl5 and the Naglfar need citadel torps skills too, not just gun skills. Double training time. Capise mr smart guy ? You talk about 10 days, your next idea maybe will be "i using them at lvl3 that's just 3 days difference."
So you talk again idiotic things. I think better if i not wasting my time for your horrible answers. Just a question what do you playing with ? You playing with another Eve or Evemon ? :D
|
Bronson Hughes
ADVANCED Combat and Engineering
|
Posted - 2009.05.18 21:01:00 -
[755]
Edited by: Bronson Hughes on 18/05/2009 21:05:07
Originally by: Hun Jakuza
What do you talk about ?
Your large guns learning need 2 days longer than rank4 topedoes because that's it rank 5 skill, but torpedoes need missile launcher operations 5 so, thats need 5 days learning time. Which one longer from 0 skill ?
Originally by: Hun Jakuza
So you talk again idiotic things. I think better if i not wasting my time for your horrible answers. Just a question what do you playing with ? You playing with another Eve or Evemon ? :D
Funny, I'm using the EvEMon that clearly points out that Large Turrets require Gunnery V. The same EvEMon that tells me that the prereqs for Citadel Torps take less time to train for than Capital Turrets.
Originally by: Hun Jakuza
And another thing, all capital turret skill is rank 7 skill.
Ok you are a noob and you using them at lvl0 :D but the PPL using them at lvl5. Thas all need over 30 days to lvl5 and the Naglfar need citadel torps skills too, not just gun skills. Double training time. Capise mr smart guy ? You talk about 10 days, your next idea maybe will be "i using them at lvl3 that's just 3 days difference."
You'll notice that I only ever discussed the prereq skills. You are correct in that the training times for the actual capital weapon skills is the same. To train a capital weapon skill from 0 to IV takes about a week. IV is pretty common, V not so much.
See my previous comments about the entire Minnie line of ships requireing more training than the other races and sucking it up because you get something rather useful out of it now. Minnie have always been a pain to train for, but their ships are usually worth the effort. The old Nag was borderline useless, the new one is well worth the extra time spent training for a split-weapon ship. -------------------- "I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne |
Bary OBama
|
Posted - 2009.05.18 21:15:00 -
[756]
Originally by: CCP Chronotis Folks,
An update on the two changes we are looking at in the next round of small updates:
These are good changes.
|
Khefron
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.05.18 22:20:00 -
[757]
Originally by: CCP Chronotis Folks,
An update on the two changes we are looking at in the next round of small updates:
Siege Module - "Explosion Velocity Bonus"
The penalty to explosion velocity is currently -92.5%, same penalty which is applied to turret tracking when in siege mode as well. It is recognised that the effect of -92.5% on explosion velocity and turret tracking are not the same so the penalty needs finer tuning.
It is this simple approach we are looking at for improving the damage of citadel torpedoes against moving capital ships as a nice relative increase in damage whilst not being too overpowered increasing the damage envelope to smaller ships when out of siege mode.
Currently, we are looking at decreasing the penalty to -60% which entails hitting a capital ship which is moving at around 100m/s for about ~3,500 damage on average per missile (this number of course varies a lot). Previously under the same conditions, the missile damage was around ~840 hp to give a ballpark improvement amount.
The Damage Over Time or cumulative damage was much more comparable to turrets though this again is heavily dependant on the exact scenario.
Change of Pre-Requisite to Capital Shield Operation skill
This was a change to the pre-requisite skills for capital shield operation primarily changing from tactical shield manipulation V to shield management V with the tertiary skill requirement of engineering V added for some completeness (though most of you should have that anyway).
Summary
Both changes are simple changes and whilst there are ideas for further development such as citadel cruise missiles or a change to the tactical shield manipulation skill effect, these essentially require more time to work on so we are focused on concise changes which achieve our goals for now.
Your feedback on both proposed changes is welcome as ever!
Hi, yes. This is encouraging, but does nothing to address the relative delta in usefullness in shooting a pos between the Missile Dreads and Turret dreads.
Currently Turret dreads do 100% dps to all classes of pos mods (small guns, big guns, neuts, etc.) while the Phoenix, at the very best, does 40% to large guns and much, much less to everything else. Since the phoenix doesn't do vastly more damage to the POS itself when compared to other dreads, I cannot imagine any sort of balance issue that would necessitate such a massive disparity. Please address this.
|
Matting
NQX Innovations The Gurlstas Associates
|
Posted - 2009.05.19 00:14:00 -
[758]
Originally by: CCP Chronotis Folks,
An update on the two changes we are looking at in the next round of small updates:
Siege Module - "Explosion Velocity Bonus"
...
Change of Pre-Requisite to Capital Shield Operation skill
...
Both great changes and a step in the right direction. Main one for me is the Capital Shield Operation pre-req change as having to training TSM5 is a pain when the Nid uses Armour tanking. Plus you get capital armour reqs from using sub cap armour skills and the new shield ones are more inline for someone already using sub cap shields.
|
Kwint Sommer
Caldari XERCORE Cult of War
|
Posted - 2009.05.19 01:26:00 -
[759]
While I agree that Tactical Shield Manipulation V never should have been required, shafting those people that trained this otherwise useless Rank 4 skill doesn't seem like the solution. If you're going to remove it as a requirement then you also need to make the skill worth having to compensate.
|
aevistyne
Caldari Solarflare Heavy Industries Doctrine.
|
Posted - 2009.05.19 07:17:00 -
[760]
Originally by: Bronson Hughes
stuff
I believe what he was trying to say is that it takes the same amount of time to train the CAPITAL skill from lvl 0 to lvl 5, not the prereqs, and when you look at it that way then it makes sense, since for t2 sentries its only the sentry drone interfacing skill to V that needs to be trained, and no advanced skill. I also have to agree on the fact that any decent capital pilots should have t2 sentries trained up anyway so its a bit of a moot point. ------- EvE +NLINE - T+TALHELLDEATH SUPPORTER |
|
darkmancer
|
Posted - 2009.05.19 09:04:00 -
[761]
Originally by: Bary OBama Edited by: Bary OBama on 18/05/2009 21:47:56
Originally by: CCP Chronotis Folks,
An update on the two changes we are looking at in the next round of small updates:
These are good changes.
Edit: TSM is a terrible skill. CCP should introduce skill respecs. Also give the Phoenix a bigger drone bay.
It might be an idea to give the phoenix a 20150m3 drone bay. It would allow the use of 4 fighters which would open up an array of options to Phoenix pilots. --------------------------------- There's a simple solution to every problem. It is always invariably wrong |
Hun Jakuza
Guargumi INC.
|
Posted - 2009.05.19 09:13:00 -
[762]
Originally by: darkmancer
Originally by: Bary OBama Edited by: Bary OBama on 18/05/2009 21:47:56
Originally by: CCP Chronotis Folks,
An update on the two changes we are looking at in the next round of small updates:
These are good changes.
Edit: TSM is a terrible skill. CCP should introduce skill respecs. Also give the Phoenix a bigger drone bay.
It might be an idea to give the phoenix a 20150m3 drone bay. It would allow the use of 4 fighters which would open up an array of options to Phoenix pilots.
I give to you a better idea : Split the weapons system to 2 hybrid gun and 2 citadel torp turret and CCP give to you +1 high slot as Naglfar. :D
|
Reatu Krentor
Minmatar Void Spiders Fate Weavers
|
Posted - 2009.05.19 09:31:00 -
[763]
Originally by: CCP Chronotis Folks,
An update on the two changes we are looking at in the next round of small updates:
Siege Module - "Explosion Velocity Bonus"
I believe the problem lies deeper within the missile mechanics and not necessarily in the siege module's penalties, I would consider this only a stopgap measure. Quoted myself(i'm so awesome) below as a further request on this.
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
Change of Pre-Requisite to Capital Shield Operation skill
That looks acceptable for a temporary fix. Making tactical shield manipulation more usefull would be great however. /me raises hand as one of the people who has trained capital shield tanking already.
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
Summary
Both changes are simple changes and whilst there are ideas for further development such as citadel cruise missiles or a change to the tactical shield manipulation skill effect, these essentially require more time to work on so we are focused on concise changes which achieve our goals for now.
Your feedback on both proposed changes is welcome as ever!
NO NO not Citadel Cruise missile, Dread missile, GO NOW and spread the word! you know that's way better! Say it with me... Dread Missile. As for Tactical Shield Manipulation, perhaps making shield start leaking sooner would make it a nice skill to have trained. Like instead of starting to leak at 25% it starts at 75% with tactical shield manipulation reducing it by 15% per level. lvl 0, 75% - lvl 1, 60% - lvl 2, 45% - lvl 3, 30% - lvl 4, 15% - lvl 5, 0%.
PS. on the missile mechanics:
Originally by: Reatu Krentor
I made a spreadsheet about missile damage so I could understand the way missiles work now and the resulting graph I got is on eve-files, what it shows is damage from a citadel torp from a sieged naglfar(all lvl 5's). Assuming the formula found by the community is correct, it would appear that damage from missiles falls away rapidly and then slows down instead of falling away slowly similar to how turret falloff functions. This rapid drop in effect is noticeable on every missile type, other missiles that are affected by this seem to be for instance rockets, which have great trouble hitting frigates for good damage. A few m/s difference in velocity can mean a big difference in damage. Of course this is assuming the formula reverse engineered from ingame data is accurate, I don't have a reason to believe it is not though, some form of confirmation would be nice pwetty please .
Could I have your opinion on this Chronotis, thx -- stuff -- |
Nova Satar
Annihilate.
|
Posted - 2009.05.19 11:31:00 -
[764]
this thread is so funny.
Before the changes there wasnt a single person talking about moros, now it seems to have ebcome the worst thing in game that it has a drone bonus lol, why has this suddenly come up?
|
Krathos'lor
|
Posted - 2009.05.19 12:05:00 -
[765]
Originally by: Nova Satar this thread is so funny.
Before the changes there wasnt a single person talking about moros, now it seems to have ebcome the worst thing in game that it has a drone bonus lol, why has this suddenly come up?
Its all because the Nag is becoming a great dread, I've heard people even say its better than a Rev now, The people that cross trained to another race for the dread are upset(and I was working on this same cross training myself0. But either way the changes they have made and are planing to make are great. I have stopped my cross training plan and my soon to be Phoenix pilot is jumping up and down because he wont have to train Tactical Shield Manipulation to 5. Good call guys
|
darkmancer
|
Posted - 2009.05.19 15:28:00 -
[766]
Originally by: Hun Jakuza
Originally by: darkmancer
It might be an idea to give the phoenix a 20150m3 drone bay. It would allow the use of 4 fighters which would open up an array of options to Phoenix pilots.
I give to you a better idea : Split the weapons system to 2 hybrid gun and 2 citadel torp turret and CCP give to you +1 high slot as Naglfar. :D
Yup, infact it'd just be a better Naglfar (given the same bonus's) which would defeat the point of the rebalance.
The fighters idea is just something interesting for the Phoenix to have to make up for its many fallings (suits caldari backstory too) --------------------------------- There's a simple solution to every problem. It is always invariably wrong |
Tiger's Spirit
|
Posted - 2009.05.19 16:23:00 -
[767]
Originally by: Krathos'lor I've heard people even say its better than a Rev now blablabla
I heard dread pilots said after changes, Nag came better, but still worse than Rev and Moros
|
Banfire Bat
|
Posted - 2009.05.19 17:24:00 -
[768]
The skill change really should have been done while the Naglfar was becoming a sheild tanker....
Now i have to wait a month for the skill change to happen while i have trained up the skills @ V allready for the new pre skill requirment for the Cap sheild booster, then i can use my Dread again...
|
Naomi Knight
Amarr Imperial Academy
|
Posted - 2009.05.19 17:33:00 -
[769]
Originally by: Tiger's Spirit
Originally by: Krathos'lor I've heard people even say its better than a Rev now blablabla
I heard dread pilots said after changes, Nag came better, but still worse than Rev and Moros
Then those pilots are dumb. Also Naglfar doesnt need to be the best dread, it is usefull now ,compared to other dreads,that should be enough.
|
isdisco3
Reaper Industries Eternal Rapture
|
Posted - 2009.05.19 17:44:00 -
[770]
Great changes. This continues my growing love affair with your chron. Wanna go get dinner or something?
|
|
Tiger's Spirit
|
Posted - 2009.05.19 17:47:00 -
[771]
Originally by: Naomi Knight
Originally by: Tiger's Spirit
Originally by: Krathos'lor I've heard people even say its better than a Rev now blablabla
I heard dread pilots said after changes, Nag came better, but still worse than Rev and Moros
Then those pilots are dumb. Also Naglfar doesnt need to be the best dread, it is usefull now ,compared to other dreads,that should be enough.
No, you are a dumb. Thread spammer. You are spamming all thread and whine always. Go away, we dont need you.
|
Doweena
Caldari Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.05.19 22:51:00 -
[772]
Originally by: CCP Chronotis Folks,
An update on the two changes we are looking at in the next round of small updates:
Siege Module - "Explosion Velocity Bonus"
The penalty to explosion velocity is currently -92.5%, same penalty which is applied to turret tracking when in siege mode as well. It is recognised that the effect of -92.5% on explosion velocity and turret tracking are not the same so the penalty needs finer tuning.
It is this simple approach we are looking at for improving the damage of citadel torpedoes against moving capital ships as a nice relative increase in damage whilst not being too overpowered increasing the damage envelope to smaller ships when out of siege mode.
Currently, we are looking at decreasing the penalty to -60% which entails hitting a capital ship which is moving at around 100m/s for about ~3,500 damage on average per missile (this number of course varies a lot). Previously under the same conditions, the missile damage was around ~840 hp to give a ballpark improvement amount.
The Damage Over Time or cumulative damage was much more comparable to turrets though this again is heavily dependant on the exact scenario.
Change of Pre-Requisite to Capital Shield Operation skill
This was a change to the pre-requisite skills for capital shield operation primarily changing from tactical shield manipulation V to shield management V with the tertiary skill requirement of engineering V added for some completeness (though most of you should have that anyway).
Summary
Both changes are simple changes and whilst there are ideas for further development such as citadel cruise missiles or a change to the tactical shield manipulation skill effect, these essentially require more time to work on so we are focused on concise changes which achieve our goals for now.
Your feedback on both proposed changes is welcome as ever!
Put these in soon, these changes sound great! |
Incantare
|
Posted - 2009.05.19 22:52:00 -
[773]
Originally by: CCP Chronotis Folks,
An update on the two changes we are looking at in the next round of small updates:
Siege Module - "Explosion Velocity Bonus"
The penalty to explosion velocity is currently -92.5%, same penalty which is applied to turret tracking when in siege mode as well. It is recognised that the effect of -92.5% on explosion velocity and turret tracking are not the same so the penalty needs finer tuning.
It is this simple approach we are looking at for improving the damage of citadel torpedoes against moving capital ships as a nice relative increase in damage whilst not being too overpowered increasing the damage envelope to smaller ships when out of siege mode.
Currently, we are looking at decreasing the penalty to -60% which entails hitting a capital ship which is moving at around 100m/s for about ~3,500 damage on average per missile (this number of course varies a lot). Previously under the same conditions, the missile damage was around ~840 hp to give a ballpark improvement amount.
The Damage Over Time or cumulative damage was much more comparable to turrets though this again is heavily dependant on the exact scenario.
Change of Pre-Requisite to Capital Shield Operation skill
This was a change to the pre-requisite skills for capital shield operation primarily changing from tactical shield manipulation V to shield management V with the tertiary skill requirement of engineering V added for some completeness (though most of you should have that anyway).
Summary
Both changes are simple changes and whilst there are ideas for further development such as citadel cruise missiles or a change to the tactical shield manipulation skill effect, these essentially require more time to work on so we are focused on concise changes which achieve our goals for now.
Your feedback on both proposed changes is welcome as ever!
These are both good changes. However I am still concerned about citadel damage against moving capitals. They would be losing about 50% of their raw damage using your example. I understand guns and missiles aren't easy to balance as to be of overall equivalent effectiveness, and that looking at damage over time in different situations is the most reasonable way to do it.
Specifically the problem as I see it is that citadel damage doesn't scale with engagement size. If you get a group of turret dreads to fire at a moving carrier some will be facing higher transversal than others but with citadels every single one will be taking the maximum penalty at a given speed. That's why the damage loss seems too harsh and I urge you to run some tests involving multiple dreads firing at the same carrier, as is frequent in game. (If you haven't already.)
Now that the Nag has gotten a boost the Phoenix gets the title of "worst dread" and will remain so for the foreseeable future even with the citadel buffs. Conceptually it trades off the best tank for the worst damage which makes sense but in game being a hard to kill low damage target just means the enemy will pick off the easier to kill, more threatening dreads which contribute more to the fight before Phoenixes.
Tank aside there's really nothing "special" about the Phoenix that would make it worth flying over another dread. Being missile based at current engagement ranges is a liability more than anything and the one true advantage they bring in damage type selection comes at the cost of losing a 25% damage bonus. What I'm getting at is that the Phoenix could use a bonus change to be made a more attractive dread. Several ideas have already been posted in this thread. Here is mine:
Base it off a missile ship design that works, the Raven. One bonus to rate of fire and another to missile velocity.
That way not only would it get true, no strings attached, damage selection, both useful and unique among dreads, but also improved performance at range where it is lacking the most. |
Aston Vette
|
Posted - 2009.05.20 01:09:00 -
[774]
So, basically, you want a 12 low slots and 3 mids right?
3xBCS, 3xGyrostabs, 6 slots for armor tank and 3 cap rechargers. (Or maybe a painter & 2 webs for moar damage?) Sounds great right?
Unfortunately, that's not available so I guess you're either going to have to fit your Nag differently, or fly something else. Or you could whine about it more and see if that helps.
Personally, I think CCP's done a pretty decent job of realigning things. |
Bronson Hughes
ADVANCED Combat and Engineering
|
Posted - 2009.05.20 10:32:00 -
[775]
Originally by: Aston Vette So, basically, you want a 12 low slots and 3 mids right?
3xBCS, 3xGyrostabs, 6 slots for armor tank and 3 cap rechargers. (Or maybe a painter & 2 webs for moar damage?) Sounds great right?
Don't forget the extra powergrid needed for dual CARs. And who needs that extra CPU? -------------------- "I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne |
Granmethedon III
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
|
Posted - 2009.05.20 11:24:00 -
[776]
Originally by: CCP Chronotis Folks,
An update on the two changes we are looking at in the next round of small updates: Change of Pre-Requisite to Capital Shield Operation skill
This was a change to the pre-requisite skills for capital shield operation primarily changing from tactical shield manipulation V to shield management V with the tertiary skill requirement of engineering V added for some completeness (though most of you should have that anyway).
Any eta on when this would be done? From a skillplan point of view, obviously would rather not train TSM 5 if avoidable, but if its going to be a significant amount of time before the change is made then it may become necessary in order to actually use the ship. :D
|
aevistyne
Caldari Solarflare Heavy Industries Doctrine.
|
Posted - 2009.05.20 20:42:00 -
[777]
Originally by: Granmethedon III
Originally by: CCP Chronotis Folks,
An update on the two changes we are looking at in the next round of small updates: Change of Pre-Requisite to Capital Shield Operation skill
This was a change to the pre-requisite skills for capital shield operation primarily changing from tactical shield manipulation V to shield management V with the tertiary skill requirement of engineering V added for some completeness (though most of you should have that anyway).
Any eta on when this would be done? From a skillplan point of view, obviously would rather not train TSM 5 if avoidable, but if its going to be a significant amount of time before the change is made then it may become necessary in order to actually use the ship. :D
This would be nice to know, i'm in the same boat, tossing up between keeping a gimped armor tanked nag or training tsm V while i wait for the skill reqs to be changed. Would be good to know where we stand in terms of a timeframe. ------- EvE +NLINE - T+TALHELLDEATH SUPPORTER |
Raxlar Kalimar
|
Posted - 2009.05.21 03:55:00 -
[778]
OK i am not a dread pilot yet....mostly just bacause i am mini and it did not seem worth it till now with the nag being rubbish and all. So i have read this thread with interest.
However now that it has a duel dammage bonus to projectiles I was wondering if you could fit two projectiles and two cap remote sheild reps in the high slots and spider tank a group of nags. Forgetting the missles all together, they dont seem to add nearly as much as the projectiles anyway looking at EFT aspecially if you use more than two damage mods.
If not can a cap pilot tell me why this is a bad idea / why you can't do this?
|
Don Shadow
Viper Squad Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2009.05.21 07:11:00 -
[779]
Originally by: Raxlar Kalimar OK i am not a dread pilot yet....mostly just bacause i am mini and it did not seem worth it till now with the nag being rubbish and all. So i have read this thread with interest.
However now that it has a duel dammage bonus to projectiles I was wondering if you could fit two projectiles and two cap remote sheild reps in the high slots and spider tank a group of nags. Forgetting the missles all together, they dont seem to add nearly as much as the projectiles anyway looking at EFT aspecially if you use more than two damage mods.
If not can a cap pilot tell me why this is a bad idea / why you can't do this?
very bad ideea, you can't remote shield/armour a sieged dread
|
Nikuno
|
Posted - 2009.05.21 11:04:00 -
[780]
So a citadel torp will do 3,500 damage to a cap ship moving at 100m/s. What damage does it do to a cap ship moving slower than that or stationary?
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 .. 29 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |