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Naglfar, Captial Projectile Turrets and Citadel Torpedos

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 14 post(s)
Zakon Minmatar 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.04.30 04:58:00 - [181] Honestly Chronotis i got scared when reading your proposed changes. If that was what u call fixing the nag, then i dont know what to think about your balancing competence. That fix off yours is laughable and so fundamentaly wrong. There is no need of repeating what other players already said in this thread, but it seams that u guys are in need off some serious basic understanding off the ships in question. "alpha" ??? but LOL, common man, its atleast laughable. Capital fights take time (u should know that). Can u explain what exact use have u spoted suddenly alpha?? and with split weapon sistem. 4 weapon slots and still worse damage off all the dreads Worse tank, nice changes indeed
Random Womble Minmatar Emo Rangers Electric Monkey Overlords	Posted - 2009.04.30 05:04:00 - [182] Edited by: Random Womble on 30/04/2009 05:04:51 Nag needs its missing mid/low slot since the extra high slot provides no real bonus as it only serves to actually allow the split weapon system get close to competing. So far the only real positive change is the much needed CPU boost. so basically +70 cpu = good +1 med also needed to bring it inline with other dreads Other changes actually make it worse.
Gespenst Jager Pumpkin Scissors Bright Side of Death	Posted - 2009.04.30 05:34:00 - [183] Now we have three dreds in game: Moros, Revel and Nagl. Moros can kill support, Revel have the most rigid tank and a powerful damage (including sniper distances). And what we have at Nagl? Just give to this ship any sense for existence, besides that [censored] VERTICALITY.
Jelmer Minmatar The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2009.04.30 05:35:00 - [184] Tbh, due to the fact that the naglfar is always primaried, has a **ty tank and is not even remotely near the best dps, I am seriously considering crosstraining to Moros. And that's with a char that HAS the dual weapon systems maxed. Doesn't that tell you just how lousy the naglfar is atm? * A noob a day takes the boredom away ***
Osant	Posted - 2009.04.30 05:47:00 - [185] Edited by: Osant on 30/04/2009 05:47:24 Yeah! Remove all bonuses to citadels, make them like additional missile hardpoint on Stiletto 20-25% per level (Minmatar Dreadnought) for Capital Projectiles?
Ecky X SniggWaffe	Posted - 2009.04.30 06:01:00 - [186] Originally by: Random Womble Edited by: Random Womble on 30/04/2009 05:04:51 Nag needs its missing mid/low slot since the extra high slot provides no real bonus as it only serves to actually allow the split weapon system get close to competing. So far the only real positive change is the much needed CPU boost. so basically +70 cpu = good +1 med also needed to bring it inline with other dreads Other changes actually make it worse. I agree 100%! However, I said this 5 pages back. And it needs more than 70 cpu.
Beyond Horizon Caldari Solar Dragons SOLAR FLEET	Posted - 2009.04.30 06:07:00 - [187] Edited by: Beyond Horizon on 30/04/2009 06:07:48 Originally by: DigitalCommunist Originally by: Lumy And how would this help? If I had a dreadnought fleet, I would want them to get into position together, enter siege together, leave siege together, and if possible, return home together. If you don't see the advantages, you probably haven't spent enough time on dread ops. Dude... seriously... different dreads having different siege cycles is ret arded, mkay? - BH
Vlip Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.04.30 06:18:00 - [188] To everyone asking for three turret nags. It took us the better part of a year to get them to involve the balance team. How long do you think it'd take us to get them to involve the graphical team too? And no, it's not a "quick" change, it won't take only a week. So to me the only two proposals that are realistic are the "nightmare" option (2 guns with 100% role bonus) or the "more slots and way more CPU" option. I prefer the second one personally as it won't make millions of my SP useless. Give the nag +1 low and +1(2?) mid and at least 100CPU more. That way you can fit a full rack of damage mods for our "lovely" dual weapon systems. Ideally in that fit the nag would do best DPS and be able to fit an average shield tank without requiring silly faction mods. Or you could armor tank it and have the best tank of all dreads but do the worst damage. It doesn't require a lot of graphical redesign and it makes the naglfar useful again.
Ecky X SniggWaffe	Posted - 2009.04.30 06:27:00 - [189] Originally by: Vlip To everyone asking for three turret nags. It took us the better part of a year to get them to involve the balance team. How long do you think it'd take us to get them to involve the graphical team too? And no, it's not a "quick" change, it won't take only a week. So to me the only two proposals that are realistic are the "nightmare" option (2 guns with 100% role bonus) or the "more slots and way more CPU" option. I prefer the second one personally as it won't make millions of my SP useless. Give the nag +1 low and +1(2?) mid and at least 100CPU more. That way you can fit a full rack of damage mods for our "lovely" dual weapon systems. Ideally in that fit the nag would do best DPS and be able to fit an average shield tank without requiring silly faction mods. Or you could armor tank it and have the best tank of all dreads but do the worst damage. It doesn't require a lot of graphical redesign and it makes the naglfar useful again. Oddly enough, if you fit the Nag just like a Phoenix, it takes +1 mid, +1 low, and +200 CPU to make them about the same. Nag is a bit less tanked (3%?) and does a bit less damage (5%ish less with 4 damage mods) which I consider to be equal since you have more choice of damage type. That probably isn't the optimal way to fit a Nag, but it needs love, more than the Devs have stated.
Vlip Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.04.30 06:29:00 - [190] Yeah, I still think arties need a buff in general which would give the nag more dps in that "mod" than other dreads.

Tea Spoon Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.04.30 06:35:00 - [191] Alpha strike is very much important in hit-and-run combat which the Minmatar should use given their in-game history. These tactics make no sense at all when you are dealing with sieged dreads and a split weapon system which delivers half your damage 30 seconds later then your direct fire weapons. CCP should go for the 2 100% bonused guns to make the Nag equal in training effort or make it a better dread then the rest to compensate for having to train two main weapons with support skills for them. Going from terrible to just crap is not the answer. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Navigator ([email protected])
SavageBastard Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.04.30 06:47:00 - [192] Originally by: Yorda 2 gun slots 100% damage role bonus 5% shield boost amount instead of missile RoF 3/6/5 +15% cpu There I did your job for you. Supporting the Nag pilot instead of the poor scrub that the job got pawned off on.
Mr Adebisi GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.04.30 06:47:00 - [193] Originally by: Yorda 2 gun slots 100% damage role bonus 5% shield boost amount instead of missile RoF 3/6/5 +15% cpu There I did your job for you. please do this thanks in advance
Drad Lord	Posted - 2009.04.30 07:11:00 - [194] I think this post created for laugh at all minmatare race and say go to your hurricane, rupture and rifter, before they still work. And forget about dreads they too large for minmatares philosophy, slaves cant siege POSs and forms capitals fleets they only can catch, hit and run. Naglfar was worst and will worst in future as large artillery. If you want fly at decent capitals go cross train like snipers bs.
Lexa Hellfury Incura	Posted - 2009.04.30 07:13:00 - [195] Edited by: Lexa Hellfury on 30/04/2009 07:15:32 I know I'm not saying anything that hasn't been said before, but as long as the Naglfar has it's current slot layout, split weapons system, and fitting specs, it's going to be a fail dread. Minor tweaks to Citadel Torps and XL Projectiles aren't going to change that. -2 Launcher Points, +1 Turret Point (fix the graphics model, don't fix the graphics model, who really cares?) -1 High Slot, -1 Low Slot, +2 Mid Slot +150 CPU Bonuses changed to: 5% Bonus to Capital Projectile Damage and Capital Projectile Turret Rate of fire per level. This sits quite nicely as it mirrors the bonuses of the Rupture, Hurricane, and Tempest quite nicely (Good from an RP standpoint).
Morel Solar Dragons SOLAR FLEET	Posted - 2009.04.30 07:20:00 - [196] Nerf all other dread to nalg level - it's a simple solution
Beyond Horizon Caldari Solar Dragons SOLAR FLEET	Posted - 2009.04.30 07:52:00 - [197] Edited by: Beyond Horizon on 30/04/2009 07:54:00 Originally by: Morel Nerf all other dread to nalg level - it's a simple solution so it'll take more time to kill anything with a dread fleet? how is that a solution? And effort wise - its much more simple to fix one ship instead of 3 - BH
Saylin Kitsune	Posted - 2009.04.30 07:55:00 - [198] Edited by: Saylin Kitsune on 30/04/2009 07:56:34 Edited by: Saylin Kitsune on 30/04/2009 07:56:18 Simply bring 'em in-line with oter Dreads: 3 Hybrid X-Large Turrets - Morros 3 Laser X-Large Turrets - Revelation 3 Citadel Launcher - Phoenix 3 Projectile X-Large - Naglfar
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2009.04.30 08:19:00 - [199] Originally by: Soenan Originally by: Voculus No disrespect intended, CCP, but this "buff" to the Naglfar is a waste. For the love of God, remove the torpedoes, give it three turret hardpoints, and be done with it already. QFT. And while you're at it add 2 more turret hardpoints to the phoenix and delete capital torps. If the Phoenix is left as the only Dread using missiles - together with their gimped explosion velocity that means that Carriers, MS and Titans must be multiple-webbed (duh how does that work?) - then it becomes completely obsolete in Dread fights. Just bin the Citadel Torps altogether. They're as pointless as Cruise in a sniper BS fleet. Give the Phoenix bonuses to hybrid optimal and something else.
Drad Lord	Posted - 2009.04.30 08:21:00 - [200] Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Damage Control II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Photon Scattering Field II Capital Shield Booster I Heat Dissipation Field II Quad 3500mm Siege Artillery I,EMP XL Quad 3500mm Siege Artillery I,EMP XL Citadel Torpedo Launcher I,Guristas Thor Torpedo I Citadel Torpedo Launcher I,Guristas Thor Torpedo I Siege Module I Core Defence Field Extender I Core Defence Field Extender I Core Defence Field Extender I It looks not bad but need 225 CPU (you may decrease PG to 600000) and 10% projectile damage bonus per level rather rate of fire its will be enough for this one, except speed of citadel torpedo they need fix too. And nothing break minmatare philosophy, and whole world will be happy

Warrio GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.04.30 08:23:00 - [201] God I hope CCP doesn't give into the **y whiney little ***es crying about training up two weapon systems. sXe
Feonfan	Posted - 2009.04.30 08:46:00 - [202] 5 high (3 turret 2 torpedo) 6 med 5 low
Xelios Minmatar Broski Enterprises Avarice.	Posted - 2009.04.30 08:49:00 - [203] Originally by: Warrio God I hope CCP doesn't give into the **y whiney little *es crying about training up two weapon systems. There's nothing wrong with having to train 2 weapon systems, except when both those weapon systems are piles of *. If you have to invest twice the SP into a Nag then it should at least* be on par with the Rev and Moros.
Seph Res Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2009.04.30 08:58:00 - [204] i know this is maybe not the right thread for it, but is it possible to have a look at the phoenix too? capital fights with phoenixes is a pain. given the maximum allowed locked targets is two, paired with the WORSTEST scan resolution of all dreadnoughts and the delayed volley damage its just not usable in any way. considering the fact that my torpedoes even dont hit the target after i locked it cause the turret dreads melt it away in 10 seconds makes the phoenix even useless at 30km fighting range, not taking into account on 150km and more its only 2 minutes till my torps hit at this range, so i maybe can shoot at the 6th called target then high slot layout of phoenix as it is for capitalfights: siege mod, cynosural field generator, neutralizer, smartbomb = more useful than now. rant
Lin'ka	Posted - 2009.04.30 09:00:00 - [205] Give the chance to move in siege.
Morel Solar Dragons SOLAR FLEET	Posted - 2009.04.30 09:11:00 - [206] Originally by: Beyond Horizon Edited by: Beyond Horizon on 30/04/2009 07:54:00 Originally by: Morel Nerf all other dread to nalg level - it's a simple solution so it'll take more time to kill anything with a dread fleet? how is that a solution? And effort wise - its much more simple to fix one ship instead of 3 it was irony ma'man (related to nano nerf) wink-wink
Pohbis Neo T.E.C.H.	Posted - 2009.04.30 09:14:00 - [207] Originally by: CCP Chronotis Feedback is most welcome! So, what should you be looking to do with the Naglfar? * Swapping the projectile rate of fire bonus for a 10% projectile damage bonus per level. * Increasing the citadel launcher rate of fire bonus to 7.5% per level. * Increasing the base CPU to 875 (+175) * Decreasing the base powergrid to 560,000 (-65,000) * Add one midslot * Remove one lowslot And what about capital projectile turrets? Quad 3500mm Siege Artillery I: * Damage multiplier increased to 12.075 (from 8.4) * Rate of Fire decreased to 35.438 secs (from 28.688) * Tracking Speed decreased to 0.0045 (from 0.005625) * Optimal Range increased to 80,000m (from 64,400) * Power need increased to 162,500mw (from 137,500) 6x2500mm Repeating Artillery I : * Damage Multiplier increased to 5.39 (from 3.85) * Rate of Fire decreased to 11.813 secs (from 8.438) Citadel Torpedoes * Citadel Torpedo velocity increased to 2,500 m/s (from 750) * Citadel Torpedo flight time decreased to 60 secs (from 90) * Citadel Torpedo explosion velocity increased to 100 m/sec (from 29 m/sec)
Beyond Horizon Caldari Solar Dragons SOLAR FLEET	Posted - 2009.04.30 09:15:00 - [208] Originally by: Morel Originally by: Beyond Horizon Edited by: Beyond Horizon on 30/04/2009 07:54:00 Originally by: Morel Nerf all other dread to nalg level - it's a simple solution so it'll take more time to kill anything with a dread fleet? how is that a solution? And effort wise - its much more simple to fix one ship instead of 3 it was irony ma'man (related to nano nerf) wink-wink oh ok ^_^ yeah nerfing other dreads to the nag level is as sucky as making different dreads having different siege cycles
Hertford Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.04.30 09:33:00 - [209] Originally by: Saylin Kitsune Simply bring 'em in-line with oter Dreads: 3 Hybrid X-Large Turrets - Morros 3 Laser X-Large Turrets - Revelation 3 Citadel Launcher - Phoenix 3 Projectile X-Large - Naglfar Engage the art team. Get this done. The quote above is probably the most succinct way of putting it. Like I said earlier, it's not rocket science. For example, chop the model in two, in between the two turrets. Move the halves apart, put in a flat chunk to provide room for the third turret. It'll be even more vertical, which is an added bonus. Anything else is just sheer laziness. Stop beating around with stupid role bonuses, bite the bullet (well, shell) and get an modeller onto the case right now. Cease the procrastination. Fix the Naglfar (and I mean fix, I don't mean botch job patchup).
Spacebar Minmatar Body Count Inc. Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2009.04.30 09:49:00 - [210] Originally by: Drad Lord Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Damage Control II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Photon Scattering Field II Capital Shield Booster I Heat Dissipation Field II Quad 3500mm Siege Artillery I,EMP XL Quad 3500mm Siege Artillery I,EMP XL Citadel Torpedo Launcher I,Guristas Thor Torpedo I Citadel Torpedo Launcher I,Guristas Thor Torpedo I Siege Module I Core Defence Field Extender I Core Defence Field Extender I Core Defence Field Extender I It looks not bad but need 225 CPU (you may decrease PG to 600000) and 10% projectile damage bonus per level rather rate of fire its will be enough for this one, except speed of citadel torpedo they need fix too. And nothing break minmatare philosophy, and whole world will be happy Sensor booster mate... Dont forget.



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