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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Jumbalaiya
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Posted - 2009.05.11 17:12:00 -
[241]
^ Bingo. He had every intention to sell it and made all advertisements/plans to do so but took advantage of an accidental mistake by the buyer. This is exactly why I believe it's firmly against EULA, and CCP will take care of it.
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Lady Cynosural
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Posted - 2009.05.11 17:16:00 -
[242]
I saw an opportunity to sell off my sleipnir which was gathering dust in my hangar, though i'd gladly buy it back off him for say.. 300m, a bit of a markdown on what he bought it for unfortunately :(
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Jumbalaiya
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Posted - 2009.05.11 17:23:00 -
[243]
Look, no matter what rhetoric you used prior to the transaction or now in hindsight, the fact that it was built around the foundation of a character transfer that you advertised for sale is more than enough evidence to get yourself in trouble.
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Matrix Skye
Caldari
State War Academy
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Posted - 2009.05.11 17:42:00 -
[244]
Edited by: Matrix Skye on 11/05/2009 17:42:59
This is going to come down to how well the victim can present his case and not much to do with the scammer. The victim needs to make sure he includes EVERY DETAIL AND PROOF. So far it doesn't look like he's done a good job at it and I bet it's the reason the first ruling was against him.
To the victim,
The case is in your favor. But you'll need to work harder in presenting it, as it doesn't seem you've done so yet. Turn in everything you have, chat logs, emails, names, etc, heck, even this thread may be used as evidence  . And explain every detail without leaving anything out. Getting your iskies back will depend on YOU and YOU alone.
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Lady Cynosural
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Posted - 2009.05.11 17:47:00 -
[245]
 Originally by: Matrix Skye
Edited by: Matrix Skye on 11/05/2009 17:42:59
This is going to come down to how well the victim can present his case and not much to do with the scammer. The victim needs to make sure he includes EVERY DETAIL AND PROOF. So far it doesn't look like he's done a good job at it and I bet it's the reason the first ruling was against him.
To the victim,
The case is in your favor. But you'll need to work harder in presenting it, as it doesn't seem you've done so yet. Turn in everything you have, chat logs, emails, names, etc, heck, even this thread may be used as evidence . And explain every detail without leaving anything out. Getting your iskies back will depend on YOU and YOU alone.
all correspondance has been posted in this thread, there is literally nothing else relating to this that hasn't been posted other than the GM responses to petitions.
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Misanth
The Glenn Quagmire Finishing School for Young Ladies
Eternal Rapture
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Posted - 2009.05.11 17:54:00 -
[246]
Originally by: Matrix Skye
This is going to come down to how well the victim can present his case
That'll work if the GM's read what you post, and understand it. It's equally dependant on the GM being able to understand the information presented.
I'll tell you a little story; I used to work as GM in another game, many moons ago (well like 6 years back or something). I know the easiest way to confirm a story from a petition is to get a couple of basic informations when checking logs; timestamp, name of parties involved, and location (not relevant in this case obviously).
I've had a few quite successful dialogues with GM's in EVE, some of them are excellent at checking logs, and quite fast. But others.. well, put it this way; I'm not even sure they speak english. Honestly. Few of my petitions taken weeks to check, and it gets returned with an unintelligble mix of words that isn't even related to the issue at hand. In two-three cases I had to re-petition to get a reply from a second GM, that does speak english.
My point is pretty simple.. the chance for the OP to get a serious investigation from the GM's increases if he can provide as relevant information as possible, like timestamps, names involved, etc, that can be verified by logs. But I wouldn't put too much trust in the GM's here. EVE is definately the best MMO on the market, and in many cases you get great response from their GM's, but in some cases it's better to escalate petitions because it does happen that.. no matter how accurate your information are, the GM's here are just plain incompetent.
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I'd tell you why but then I'll have to kill you. And to kill you I'd have to log in. And to log in I'd have to stop browsing these forums. Both you and me knows that'll never happen. |
M Smart
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Posted - 2009.05.11 18:02:00 -
[247]
Originally by: Lady Cynosural
I saw an opportunity to sell off my sleipnir which was gathering dust in my hangar, though i'd gladly buy it back off him for say.. 300m, a bit of a markdown on what he bought it for unfortunately :(
true enough but looking at the evemails you posted you did lure him with a char sale..
clearly you misunderstand what you just did , you are going to lose your 17.5 and your account to which it belonged. i trade toons on 7 accounts all the time ( this one is my latest perchase) your convo with buyer was all in order having done 50 myself .
i think you will lose for the following reasons:
1. you violated rules of char. transfer ( no assets, you clearly asked for more money if included assets , your buyer declined)
2. if you think GM havent seen your logs and such you truly are a foolish person.
dont let the time that passed be a compass has to which way this is going.. you are going to lose CCP most likly discussing how best to wack you two clowns.
3. really not a good scam.
4. simply put you if your lucky you get isk and lose toon , no ban just a warning
worst case you lose iskies and get banned
5. and posting smart arse comments like this is gonna bury you deeper.
all and all , your done.......can i have your stuff....
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Lady Cynosural
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Posted - 2009.05.11 18:07:00 -
[248]
Edited by: Lady Cynosural on 11/05/2009 18:07:33
Originally by: M Smart
Originally by: Lady Cynosural
I saw an opportunity to sell off my sleipnir which was gathering dust in my hangar, though i'd gladly buy it back off him for say.. 300m, a bit of a markdown on what he bought it for unfortunately :(
true enough but looking at the evemails you posted you did lure him with a char sale..
clearly you misunderstand what you just did , you are going to lose your 17.5 and your account to which it belonged. i trade toons on 7 accounts all the time ( this one is my latest perchase) your convo with buyer was all in order having done 50 myself .
i think you will lose for the following reasons:
1. you violated rules of char. transfer ( no assets, you clearly asked for more money if included assets , your buyer declined)
2. if you think GM havent seen your logs and such you truly are a foolish person.
dont let the time that passed be a compass has to which way this is going.. you are going to lose CCP most likly discussing how best to wack you two clowns.
3. really not a good scam.
4. simply put you if your lucky you get isk and lose toon , no ban just a warning
worst case you lose iskies and get banned
5. and posting smart arse comments like this is gonna bury you deeper.
all and all , your done.......can i have your stuff....
Well if they have looked at all the logs and such and i'm in the wrong according to you, why did they finish my petition saying it wasn't an EULA violation and I can keep the isk?
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M Smart
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Posted - 2009.05.11 18:20:00 -
[249]
Quote:
Well if they have looked at all the logs and such and i'm in the wrong according to you, why did they finish my petition saying it wasn't an EULA violation and I can keep the isk?
selling a ship for 17 billion isnt a violation , selling a ship for 500 million and the other 17 billion for char exchange ...IS please stop twisting this to make it seem your in the right. you state clearly the isk was for char. exchange in you own post.
again by posting this dribble you will clearly lose , and i think we will be better for it
but i fear transfer nerfs comming like they did in everquest.... was sad ... |
Lady Cynosural
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Posted - 2009.05.11 18:35:00 -
[250]
i stole this from my corp forum
Quote:
TBQH, if they formally (ie; GM communication) let you off the hook, CCP is in a pretty tough spot IF they are actually re-reviewing. They'll have to make a call between reversing an official position or setting a precident that they may not be that happy about.
Were I managing this game, I would just maintain the decision and work on an in-game solution to handle these transactions securely and safely for the next update. It would be a short player storm to weather. Reversing a decision of this scale is too compromising to the GM staff and sets its own nasty precidents.
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igil
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Posted - 2009.05.11 18:44:00 -
[251]
Edited by: igil on 11/05/2009 18:46:57
With the way M Smart is talking, it feels like we're starting over from the beginning again. :-p
@ Lady C: It's nice to see that your corp members have opinions on what CCP will and won't do.
I imagine at this point CCP will probably just give the buyer their money back and give you a very harsh warning.
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g0ggalor
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Posted - 2009.05.11 19:25:00 -
[252]
Originally by: Lady Cynosural
all correspondance has been posted in this thread, there is literally nothing else relating to this that hasn't been posted other than the GM responses to petitions.
[/quote
Stop lying.
The person you scammed already said that you left out an evemail sent by him to you expression interest in buy your character for the agreed amount. Since you can't check "sent mail" in evemail, he cannot post it. You have it, unless you deleted it.
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Dzil
Caldari
Second Quadrant Ice Division
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Posted - 2009.05.11 19:25:00 -
[253]
Originally by: M Smart
selling a ship for 17 billion isnt a violation , selling a ship for 500 million and the other 17 billion for char exchange ...IS please stop twisting this to make it seem your in the right. you state clearly the isk was for char. exchange in you own post.
again by posting this dribble you will clearly lose , and i think we will be better for it
but i fear transfer nerfs comming like they did in everquest.... was sad ...
Not entirely sure I comprehended all of that, but it sounds like you've read two different GMs concluding this isn't a EULA breaking character scam, and drew a different conclusion. That's all fine and good. You go on to say the OP will clearly lose. This confuses me. Is this just faith based "I know I'm right"?
Now, on a related question:
Is it against the EULA to take bets on which outcome the GMs will decide on a EULA case?
 |
Master Chaz
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Posted - 2009.05.11 19:41:00 -
[254]
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Kaptain Klo
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Posted - 2009.05.11 19:48:00 -
[255]
Originally by: Lady Cynosural
i stole this from my corp forum
Quote:
TBQH, if they formally (ie; GM communication) let you off the hook, CCP is in a pretty tough spot IF they are actually re-reviewing. They'll have to make a call between reversing an official position or setting a precident that they may not be that happy about.
Were I managing this game, I would just maintain the decision and work on an in-game solution to handle these transactions securely and safely for the next update. It would be a short player storm to weather. Reversing a decision of this scale is too compromising to the GM staff and sets its own nasty precidents.
It is entirely possible the only reason they let you off the first time is because there was never a mention of a character bazaar post. Gm's take no responsibility for you leaving out relevant information.
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Master Chaz
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Posted - 2009.05.11 19:48:00 -
[256]
Originally by: Everybruce
Edited by: Everybruce on 03/05/2009 19:53:38
Edited by: Everybruce on 03/05/2009 19:52:03
Just scammed a guy for 17.5 billion, he wanted to buy my char... but accepted a contract for a sleipnir for 17.5 billion.. here's the chatlogs (might take alot of reading through).. is this an EULA violation or not?
There were *NO* forum posts, and NO evemails involved in this at all.. he just accepted my sleipnir for 17.5 billion as far as he can see - i've petitioned it, but would like advice from this forum...
this clearly states that you scammed this guy.... case closed BAN!!!!!
all the other chatlogs and such ( if they are even real) wont matter at all .
you stated in one that you were gonna transfer the toon , but you didnt .
of course if you guys didnt do it on fourms even if it said private sale . you both will probibly get your stuff returned and get a sterne warning ..
but the guy did state he sent eve mail to you , if he did then your gonna get banned has well ....
and yes happened to me 
p.s i am M Smart
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Dzil
Caldari
Second Quadrant Ice Division
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Posted - 2009.05.11 20:41:00 -
[257]
Originally by: Master Chaz
this clearly states that you scammed this guy.... case closed BAN!!!!!
...
p.s i am M Smart
If there's one thing I'm sure of in this thread, its that there's no black/white answer to this. You can continue to rave case closed BAN!!!!! all you want. Weeklong turnaround times on two different tickets with one going into further review would suggest that folks with a slightly more comprehensive understanding of the rules disagree with you.
Further drivel will be painted in rainbow.
-Dzil
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Amond Starsmoke
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Posted - 2009.05.11 21:06:00 -
[258]
Originally by: Dzil
Originally by: M Smart
selling a ship for 17 billion isnt a violation , selling a ship for 500 million and the other 17 billion for char exchange ...IS please stop twisting this to make it seem your in the right. you state clearly the isk was for char. exchange in you own post.
again by posting this dribble you will clearly lose , and i think we will be better for it
but i fear transfer nerfs comming like they did in everquest.... was sad ...
Not entirely sure I comprehended all of that, but it sounds like you've read two different GMs concluding this isn't a EULA breaking character scam, and drew a different conclusion. That's all fine and good. You go on to say the OP will clearly lose. This confuses me. Is this just faith based "I know I'm right"?
Now, on a related question:
Is it against the EULA to take bets on which outcome the GMs will decide on a EULA case?
I'll bet 1000 Isk it's against the EULA to take bets on which outcome the GMs will decide on a EULA case! (here's to hoping mods have a sense of humour *gulp*)
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Benedikt Miloslav
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Posted - 2009.05.11 21:28:00 -
[259]
Originally by: Amond Starsmoke
Originally by: Dzil
Originally by: M Smart
selling a ship for 17 billion isnt a violation , selling a ship for 500 million and the other 17 billion for char exchange ...IS please stop twisting this to make it seem your in the right. you state clearly the isk was for char. exchange in you own post.
again by posting this dribble you will clearly lose , and i think we will be better for it
but i fear transfer nerfs comming like they did in everquest.... was sad ...
Not entirely sure I comprehended all of that, but it sounds like you've read two different GMs concluding this isn't a EULA breaking character scam, and drew a different conclusion. That's all fine and good. You go on to say the OP will clearly lose. This confuses me. Is this just faith based "I know I'm right"?
Now, on a related question:
Is it against the EULA to take bets on which outcome the GMs will decide on a EULA case?
I'll bet 1000 Isk it's against the EULA to take bets on which outcome the GMs will decide on a EULA case! (here's to hoping mods have a sense of humour *gulp*)
And I'll bet 1000 ISK that mods don't have a sense of humour!
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Kitimortoa
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Posted - 2009.05.11 21:46:00 -
[260]
What I really wanna know is, was the ship contract thought up on the spot, or was it premeditated? |
xHazzarDx
Roevhuller i Rummet
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Posted - 2009.05.11 23:18:00 -
[261]
Edited by: xHazzarDx on 11/05/2009 23:25:07
I bet over 9000 isk that the reason this thread gets locked, is because it's pretty much about discussing GM moderation now
I bet some of them have been past here, and thought to themselves "puny mortals, they do not understand us gods"
bet is now about what the gm's do besides ruling eve..
i bet they have fun as He-man Mitnal, and the game-masters of the universe
just imagine: "I am Minal, Prince of eveonline, defender of the secrets of the forums.. This is gringer banstick, my fearless freind. Fabulous secret powers where revealed to me the day i held aloft my magic banstick and said BY THE POWER CCP, I HAVE THE POOWEEEEEER!!!!"
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igil
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Posted - 2009.05.11 23:23:00 -
[262]
It would be nice if we could get an official blue post in here after all the dust settles, though. I would like to see something concrete that's not being twisted in any way by the seller or the buyer.
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Lana Torrin
Minmatar Republic Military Skool
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Posted - 2009.05.12 00:48:00 -
[263]
Originally by: igil
It would be nice if we could get an official blue post in here after all the dust settles, though. I would like to see something concrete that's not being twisted in any way by the seller or the buyer.
I don't think that's gona happen for 2 reasons. Firstly I have never seen it happen before.. Petitions and GM decisions usually stay confidential. And secondly, because it is likely that neither side is telling us the whole truth, meaning the GM would have to explain exactly what they saw/see has happened which then both sides (assuming they don't get banned over it) will say is wrong, meaning its just going to turn in to a big huge forum ****storm.. Pretty sure the GMs want to avoid feeding the trolls.
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Jack Icegaard
The Omega Project
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Posted - 2009.05.12 04:32:00 -
[264]
Assuming that all relevant information is provided in this thread an also assuming that the OP will get the green light on this scam, then one can hardly make any other conclusion than that it is OK to use a character trade to bait someone into a scam.
The OP seem to think (or at least want us to think) that this was a scam using just a ship and entirely unrelated to the character trade that earlier was discussed with the victim. That is obviously not true.
Or why did the OP type 17.5B in the ship contract? You want me to believe that was just a coincident? Or was it because he knew there was a chance that the victim thought this was a contract for the whole deal that had been discussed, char + ship for 17.5B? Of course it was.
If the the victim had asked why you gave him a contract for 17.5B when you had agreed on 0.5B for the ship, you could just refer to the character trade discussion and save your face.
The character trade discussion was vital to pull this scam off. You would have very little chance to succeed if all you had discussed was a ship trade for 0.5B, and then out of the blue you post a 17.5B contract. You think that would have worked? 
The number 17.5B was of course related to the character + ship package agreement even though you may not explicitly have mentioned that in the ship contract.
As several already has pointed out, it is clearly a scam using a character trade as a bait.
I have nothing against scamming in EVE but still I'm surprised if this one is OK, (again assuming all relevant information is available in this tread). CCP have clearly stated that they don't accept scams involving character trades.
The other question is of course why the heck people don't use the legit forms for character transfers. If i understand this correctly, the victim rely on the rules of CCP to bail him out of a situation that he got himself into by breaking their rules.
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Ranik Sandaris
Caldari
The Centurions
Eternus Imperium Alliance
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Posted - 2009.05.12 07:52:00 -
[265]
This whole thread is a fake.
- Reginald wasquerion then forty second
Zoom Zoom |
Telinturco
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Posted - 2009.05.12 08:46:00 -
[266]
Originally by: Ranik Sandaris
This whole thread is a fake.
- Reginald wasquerion then forty second
An interesting concept, actually...
Imagine all of C&P getting so epically trolled!
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Ranik Sandaris
Caldari
The Centurions
Eternus Imperium Alliance
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Posted - 2009.05.12 09:06:00 -
[267]
i wouldnt put it past them
-Darjeeling eriksmtionsion the forty third
Zoom Zoom |
Arkerius
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Posted - 2009.05.12 15:54:00 -
[268]
<---- wants to know the final outcome of all this 3p1x drama...
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Sun Clausewitz
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Posted - 2009.05.12 16:34:00 -
[269]
Originally by: Arkerius
<---- wants to know the final outcome of all this 3p1x drama...
As do I
Pick Three:
Caldari/PVP/Solo/Success |
YarrMama
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Posted - 2009.05.12 17:12:00 -
[270]
Originally by: g0ggalor
Originally by: Lady Cynosural
all correspondance has been posted in this thread, there is literally nothing else relating to this that hasn't been posted other than the GM responses to petitions.
[/quote
Stop lying.
The person you scammed already said that you left out an evemail sent by him to you expression interest in buy your character for the agreed amount. Since you can't check "sent mail" in evemail, he cannot post it. You have it, unless you deleted it.
So is there an evemail or not? If there is, post it so we can rip on you some more.  |
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