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GyokZoli
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.05.05 14:23:00 -
[1]
Edited by: GyokZoli on 05/05/2009 14:23:55 Hey Guys, I was fooling around in EFT with PvE fits against Guristas and I came out with these fits:
[Cerberus, Full Passive vs Guristas] Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II
Kinetic Deflection Amplifier II Kinetic Deflection Amplifier II Kinetic Deflection Amplifier II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile [empty high slot]
Core Defence Field Purger I Core Defence Field Purger I
It's around 1300 DPS defence against Guristas and 266 DPS gank which is just awful (hardly breaks a BS's tank). Now you can replace the launchers with HAMLs, which brings you 333 DPS but still awful and you need an afterburner.
Now, have a look at the Ishtar:
[Ishtar, Full Passive vs Guristas] Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II
Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Kinetic Deflection Amplifier II Kinetic Deflection Amplifier II
425mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M 425mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M 425mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M [empty high slot] [empty high slot]
Core Defence Field Purger I Core Defence Field Purger I
Garde II x5 Ogre II x5
It has 2000 DPS defence and around 550 DPS firepower.
OMG, I mean OMG. It does not look like the Cerberus is on pair with the Ishtar. Heck, you can even take out the purger rigs and still having the same defence as the Cerberus has and you can put drone rigs there. Lol, the Isthar even has one more lowslot (yeah, the Cerb has a spare (utility) hislot but it does not matter much, since the Ishtar has 2 utility slot).
Thoughts?
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Davinel Lulinvega
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Posted - 2009.05.05 14:25:00 -
[2]
Try doing an actual setup instead of a wannabe drake. Ishtar probably is better for anything but sniping though...
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations BlackWater.
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Posted - 2009.05.05 14:33:00 -
[3]
Actually, you don't have to do anything fitting-wise to figure out which is better for missions. You only have to do three things: look at the Cerb's drone capacity; notice that it can't even field light drones; conclude that elite frigs and interceptors will **** it sideways in many new and interesting ways…
Done. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2009.05.05 14:35:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Gypsio III on 05/05/2009 14:34:50
Complete lolfits, both of them. What a stupid comparison.
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Benedikt Miloslav
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Posted - 2009.05.05 14:37:00 -
[5]
Cerberus.. PvE? Hah.
If you want the Caldari version of the PvE Ishtar (solo level 5 missions and 10/10 complexes), get a Nighthawk.
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GyokZoli
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.05.05 14:40:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Gypsio III Edited by: Gypsio III on 05/05/2009 14:34:50
Complete lolfits, both of them. What a stupid comparison.
Did I write that I would sue these fits? It's just for easier comparison.
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TimMc
Gallente Brutal Deliverance Blackguard Coalition
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Posted - 2009.05.05 14:41:00 -
[7]
Fit HAMs, range rigs and 3 BCU on that cerberus. Active Pithi Small boosters will make a good enough tank.
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GyokZoli
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.05.05 14:42:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Benedikt Miloslav Cerberus.. PvE? Hah.
If you want the Caldari version of the PvE Ishtar (solo level 5 missions and 10/10 complexes), get a Nighthawk.
Yeah, I know, I use a Nighthawk for PvE. But I think it is a little bit ironic that the caldari needs a command ship to be able to do the same what a gallente HAC can do.
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations BlackWater.
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Posted - 2009.05.05 14:46:00 -
[9]
Originally by: GyokZoli
Originally by: Gypsio III Complete lolfits, both of them. What a stupid comparison.
Did I write that I would sue these fits? It's just for easier comparison.
I think his point was that, if you want to compare their usefulness, you should give both of them (equally) useful setups. Otherwise, why not make this comparison:
Cerb: 3x BCSII, 1x CFCII 1x Small Pithi-B, 1x Boost amp II, 1x 10MN AB II, 2x Hardeners 5x HAML II 2x CCC 510dps output / 574 dps tank
vs.
Ishtar: 5x Warrior II 121dps output / 9 dps tank. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
Benedikt Miloslav
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Posted - 2009.05.05 14:47:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Benedikt Miloslav on 05/05/2009 14:48:07
Originally by: GyokZoli
Originally by: Benedikt Miloslav Cerberus.. PvE? Hah.
If you want the Caldari version of the PvE Ishtar (solo level 5 missions and 10/10 complexes), get a Nighthawk.
Yeah, I know, I use a Nighthawk for PvE. But I think it is a little bit ironic that the caldari needs a command ship to be able to do the same what a gallente HAC can do.
No it's not. Amarr or Minmatar don't have any ships that can do it - now that's ironic. Ishtar can only do so because it can field a dominix-like drone bay, allowing it to fit for full tank and still do decent DPS.
In fact, Nighthawk is superior to the Ishtar as it can do far more missions/complexes due to better resists. The only thing the Ishtar has over it is that it doesn't get affected by defender missiles.
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2009.05.05 14:54:00 -
[11]
Originally by: GyokZoli
Originally by: Gypsio III Edited by: Gypsio III on 05/05/2009 14:34:50
Complete lolfits, both of them. What a stupid comparison.
Did I write that I would sue these fits? It's just for easier comparison.
It's a stupid comparison. What's the bloody point of comparing fits that nobody would ever use? You may as well compare their ability to tank DDDs when fitted with mining lasers.
Here is a sensible Cerb fit:
[Cerberus, PVE HM] Internal Force Field Array I Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II
10MN Afterburner II Pithi B-Type Small Shield Booster Heat Dissipation Field II Ballistic Deflection Field II Invulnerability Field II
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile [empty high slot]
Warhead Rigor Catalyst I Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Or with HAMs:
[Cerberus, PVE HAM] Damage Control II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II
10MN Afterburner II Pithi B-Type Small Shield Booster Heat Dissipation Field II Ballistic Deflection Field II Invulnerability Field II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile [empty high slot]
Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I
Note the complete absence of Shield Power Failays. Now compare those with your passive failIshtar.
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Fossil Wolf
omen. Gay4Life
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Posted - 2009.05.05 14:56:00 -
[12]
Don't you hate it when you look away for a few seconds and the rats have destroyed your missile launchers? owai..
Furthermore by continuing this discussion we detract from the real issue many of us are having with eve online, the lack of break between signature and post content. |
Zhilia Mann
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Posted - 2009.05.05 15:00:00 -
[13]
Originally by: GyokZoli Yeah, I know, I use a Nighthawk for PvE. But I think it is a little bit ironic that the caldari needs a command ship to be able to do the same what a gallente HAC can do.
I don't think that word means what you think it does.
Also, I'd like to see a setup for a Gallente CS that can do what the Nighthawk can do. Which is to say, if we take all eight ships (two HACs and two CSs from each race), exactly two stand out as the best PVE ships and do so by a wide margin. It also happens that out of those two, the CS is better.
It's as if the ships were balanced around something else and have PVE superiority as a side thought. Now what might that other thing be....
(And please don't read this as thinking the EOS and the Eagle are worthwhile for anything much; it's just an observation about false comparisons.)
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Zhilia Mann
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Posted - 2009.05.05 15:02:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Benedikt Miloslav Amarr or Minmatar don't have any ships that can do it - now that's ironic.
Like ten thousand spoons when all you need is a knife?
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Benedikt Miloslav
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Posted - 2009.05.05 15:04:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Zhilia Mann
Originally by: Benedikt Miloslav Amarr or Minmatar don't have any ships that can do it - now that's ironic.
Like ten thousand spoons when all you need is a knife?
Yes.
Oh wait...
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GyokZoli
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.05.05 15:04:00 -
[16]
Edited by: GyokZoli on 05/05/2009 15:06:01
Originally by: Fossil Wolf Don't you hate it when you look away for a few seconds and the rats have destroyed your missile launchers? owai..
Hehe, I got it.
Gipssio III: I see your point.
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Trebor Notlimah
Lone Star EVE Group Veni Vidi Vici
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Posted - 2009.05.05 16:09:00 -
[17]
1. Sell Cerberus 2. Buy a Raven 3. ..... 4. Profit! 5. Stop making stupid posts
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.05.05 16:26:00 -
[18]
Concord should do something against such fittings ---------------------------------------------
Originally by: Neth'Rae Military experts are calling this a troll.
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Atsuko Ratu
Caldari Interstellar eXodus
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Posted - 2009.05.05 17:02:00 -
[19]
Learn to tank tbh
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation
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Posted - 2009.05.05 17:28:00 -
[20]
So, here's the thing: if you're doing missions, you don't really have an excuse not to use a NH, Raven, or Domi instead of the HACs. If you're doing ratting, the Ishtar doesn't use ammo, but the Cerb deals better damage. For ninja ratting I'd take the Ishtar, for ratting in home space, a cerb. Well, for home space I'd take a Domi or Raven or maybe a Maelstrom if my main needed some sec status.
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2009.05.05 18:50:00 -
[21]
Cald HACs are good snipers and total sh!t for anything else.
I dont think its ironic - but its certainly unfair.
Wherever you went - Here you are.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.05.05 19:11:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Trebor Notlimah 1. Sell Cerberus 2. Buy a Raven 3. ..... 4. Profit! 5. Stop making stupid posts
6. Get slow fat raven ganked in belt 7. Resume using Cerb with 150Km safety margin.
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation
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Posted - 2009.05.06 03:16:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Malcanis
6. Get slow fat raven ganked in belt 7. Resume using Cerb with 150Km safety margin.
Um, the Raven has more range than a Cerb. Try again. ;-)
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
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