Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Dzil
Caldari Second Quadrant Ice Division
|
Posted - 2009.05.06 03:47:00 -
[1]
Originally by: Sir Elliot I'd like to use this thread to compile techniques for combating John Doe... As some of you know, I've been dealing with a particular vicious John Doe in Jita recently, that is on dozens and dozens of items.
Here is a tactic I discovered that shut down John Doe for hours, absolutely froze all market activity for John Doe:
1) Use a locate agent, go to their location 2) Dock 3) Open trade window.
John Doe became absolutely broken at that point.
Other techniques would be good to hear.
Fixed to avoid discussing exploits.
/Discuss
|
Lui Kai
Logistics Incorporated
|
Posted - 2009.05.06 03:57:00 -
[2]
Personally, if John Doe is poorly scripted, I like driving his buy orders up to -just- below the sell orders. I then fill his order and place my own (real) buy order. ---------------- Ambulation Answers
|
MailDeadDrop
Globaltech Industries
|
Posted - 2009.05.06 03:58:00 -
[3]
I presume that you opened a trade window with John Doe in an attempt to *trade* something with him. Perhaps you had some commerce to execute, or perhaps it was simply to give him a token of your appreciation. If the latter, I recommend this.
MDD
|
Lui Kai
Logistics Incorporated
|
Posted - 2009.05.06 03:59:00 -
[4]
As to -what- to trade to John, I prefer colorfully named bookmarks for Rancer. ---------------- Ambulation Answers
|
Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
|
Posted - 2009.05.06 04:04:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Lui Kai Personally, if John Doe is poorly scripted, I like driving his buy orders up to -just- below the sell orders. I then fill his order and place my own (real) buy order.
Hm.. and if he's a bit more sophisticated in his behavior?
So as a general rule you could try to examine/guess his behavior-rules and beat him by extrapolate his moves. As he's a rational kind of type it should be possible and easier as if you had to deal with irrational competitors.
Forge '07 on Sale
|
Ebolak
Vengeance Asset Relocation Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
|
Posted - 2009.05.06 04:08:00 -
[6]
Ive had three experiences with a John Doe
First time I ended up stopping a John Doe by listing the same item as him way below his sell, then I listed the same item even cheaper than that. I waited to see if he would drop his price to mine, and when he didnt, I then listed a third batch of the item just below his and cancelled my two lowest sell orders.
It seemed that John Does reasoning abilities were strained and he was not able to make the decision to then beat my order.
The Second time I beat a John Doe, I was able to drive his price down from 900k per unit to 765k per unit in an hour and have him sell to my strategicly placed buy order.... 300 units of the item.
The third time I interfered with a John Doe, it was a mining John Doe, that I followed to the station and opened a trade with him. That didnt go so well as he mangaged to then open trade windows with me faster than i could close them and the only way out was to hard crash out of the game.
I dont like John Doe.... he should not be alowed to play
|
Sir Elliot
|
Posted - 2009.05.06 04:22:00 -
[7]
I decided just now to look at implants and fool around a bit. John doe was there.
I set a buy order at xx.63, and with a bit of work got my sell order down to xx.64, with john doe following me all the way down.
After a short wait, sure enough, john doe listed the items for sale at the same number under xx.64 (one john doe was always beating me by 1.7, the other by .04), selling them to me for my buy order. And shockingly, the other 150+ implants are now for sale at that same price, seems he decided to sell to everyone inbetween his goal price and the actual highest buy order.
Going to try driving john doe all the way down for fun.
|
John D03
|
Posted - 2009.05.06 04:59:00 -
[8]
O Hai Guyz wuts goin on?
|
thebarry
|
Posted - 2009.05.06 05:04:00 -
[9]
john doe sucks, ccp should ban him with the quickness
|
Evthron Macyntire
|
Posted - 2009.05.06 05:18:00 -
[10]
CCP won't ban John Doe for 2 reasons.
1). He is a paying customer. 2). You can block him.
That's about it. ------------------------------ Sigs like this. |
|
Lui Kai
Logistics Incorporated
|
Posted - 2009.05.06 05:25:00 -
[11]
Blocking him doesn't negate his ability to interfere with the normal flow of the market. ---------------- Ambulation Answers
|
John D03
|
Posted - 2009.05.06 05:45:00 -
[12]
The problem isn't my spam in jita local, silly. That can be blocked.
The problem is my market activity, being on 23/7 and seemingly being somehow robotic in my activities. That isn't blockable and lets me mess up everyone's orders, while I make billions.
|
Caleb Ayrania
Gallente TarNec Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll
|
Posted - 2009.05.06 05:59:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Lui Kai Blocking him doesn't negate his ability to interfere with the normal flow of the market.
Would be a nice method to control trade more.. Effecting embargo/boycutt...
Would have to be on user ID level though..
- Money is Love - Sometimes it just gets bend the wrong ways.
Feed your Brain:
Innovation Thread |
Ricdic
Caldari Tleilex Developments Dara Cothrom
|
Posted - 2009.05.06 07:31:00 -
[14]
Personally I believe John Doe doesn't exist. A figment of your imaginations also known as a strong competitor.
Realistically it's Jane and Jack, just regular players sitting at their desks attempting market pvp and probably boning each other whilst hubby John gets all the blame.
TLDR: Those you are seeking don't exist in Eve, just regular players. |
YouGotRipped
Ewigkeit
|
Posted - 2009.05.06 07:35:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Ricdic Personally I believe John Doe doesn't exist. A figment of your imaginations also known as a strong competitor.
Realistically it's Jane and Jack, just regular players sitting at their desks attempting market pvp and probably boning each other whilst hubby John gets all the blame.
really?
Black Sun Empire |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Dark-Rising
|
Posted - 2009.05.06 08:51:00 -
[16]
Quote:
I dont like John Doe.... he should not be alowed to play
John Does exist for only one reason: because the game got design issues that make some parts of the gameplay tedious, long and repeating.
Until the game design issues are not solved, John Does will exist and will evolve along with the increasingly smarter ways the players or game developers will combat them.
|
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Dark-Rising
|
Posted - 2009.05.06 09:08:00 -
[17]
Also, why do CCP lock these threads even when they discuss how to kill bots / exploits?
The answer is not very short:
- Talking about exploits tends to damage a game's prestige, this leads to a financial loss.
- Letting people talking about the company not punishing exploiters raises rubble and again a loss of prestige. This because even if CCP actively dealt with bots, one day a new, at first undetectable bot would appear and people would still post "CCP don't care to fight against bots". CCP is in a lose-lose situation, so they just bury it with the "no exploit talk allowed" policy to break the lose-lose spiral in the cheapest / quickest way.
- By talking at how to defeat a bot, you (may) break that bot. You break an established bot doing XXXX damage to the game economy since a while. The XXXX damage is known, it's a constant, it's counterable, the users of the bot traceable. Once you post how to break the bot, another new one is introduced without the limitations of the former. It's undetectable for a long while and dealing a random YYYY > XXXX damage to the game economy, the users of the new bot are not traceable for a while.
Basically by breaking a bot you do not chance anything at all, as a new, nastier one WILL replace it (as I said above, the game mechanics *call* for bots, bots will be made anyway). You just make it harder for CCP to trace the botters as they'll switch to a next gen bot.
The only way to kill bots is to kill their reason to exist, not to individually chase the old dumb "models" down and enticing a next harder generation of bots to replace them.
So, CCP will lock threads about fighting bots with their limitations, as damage control vs getting worse bots.
Blizzard and Punkbuster games went to the "fight bots and keyloggers with blazing guns" path, all they got are intrusive additional installed software possibly interfering with legit installed applications that needs to be updated all the time, as bot / logger / malware makers are more agile at making new malign software than big software developers to develop counters for them.
|
Ricdic
Caldari Tleilex Developments Dara Cothrom
|
Posted - 2009.05.06 09:10:00 -
[18]
There is no John Doe
It was just random YGR. Can you prove it was a John Doe?
John Doe is a myth, nothing more. |
Domasx
|
Posted - 2009.05.06 09:13:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Domasx on 06/05/2009 09:14:37
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Quote:
I dont like John Doe.... he should not be alowed to play
John Does exist for only one reason: because the game got design issues that make some parts of the gameplay tedious, long and repeating.
Until the game design issues are not solved, John Does will exist and will evolve along with the increasingly smarter ways the players or game developers will combat them.
The argument that John Does are a natural result of people trying to fix flawed mechanics is invalid. Consider a more crude example: aimbots in first person shooters. Managing to hit a player is the primary mechanic, and gunning down other players is where the enjoyment comes from. Now an aimbot can do that with maximum efficiency possible, therby making victory for human players impossible. Game is ruined for everyone. It's pretty much the same with our John Does. They invalidate a lot of strategies, tactics, the human factor that makes participating in the market fun.
Ofc, one could say that it just becomes another game, one where you have to find ways to beat John Doe instead of other players. But thats not the game most of us want to play.
|
YouGotRipped
Ewigkeit
|
Posted - 2009.05.06 09:17:00 -
[20]
Edited by: YouGotRipped on 06/05/2009 09:19:36
Originally by: Ricdic There is no John Doe
It was just random YGR. Can you prove it was a John Doe?
John Doe is a myth, nothing more.
Yes, I could count the transactions in the given time frame (HALF AN HOUR) and prove it is was a John Doe (total transactions / time interval) Not to mention setting something like this up (splitting a huge batch of trit in 30-100 pieces).
My guess is that transactions under 1000 isk are not tracked and it was some type of isk laundering thing.
Black Sun Empire |
|
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Dark-Rising
|
Posted - 2009.05.06 09:22:00 -
[21]
Quote:
The argument that John Does are a natural result of people trying to fix flawed mechanics is invalid.
What you describe is a plain "hack" / cheat and it's made for different reasons than a <placeholder for bored miner / 0.01 ISK games trader>
Cheats, even if commonly called bots (as they are "bots" as well after all) usually entice immediate company attention at nuking them.
Human tiresome job replacement AFK bots are not as immediately dangerous, the game can "tank" them while their owners get prosecuted. This lets the company work out patterns of detection in a more rational and productive way than the former. Of course this working out is defeated if the game users force the bot users in a constant bot turnover.
|
Ricdic
Caldari Tleilex Developments Dara Cothrom
|
Posted - 2009.05.06 09:42:00 -
[22]
Originally by: YouGotRipped Yes, I could count the transactions in the given time frame (HALF AN HOUR) and prove it is was a John Doe (total transactions / time interval) Not to mention setting something like this up (splitting a huge batch of trit in 30-100 pieces).
Please do so. |
LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
|
Posted - 2009.05.06 09:48:00 -
[23]
John Doe is a lie.
|
YouGotRipped
Ewigkeit
|
Posted - 2009.05.06 10:00:00 -
[24]
Edited by: YouGotRipped on 06/05/2009 10:00:08
Originally by: LaVista Vista John Doe is a lie.
And you say you're a programmer? I refuse to believe you're stupid so that leaves us with what? Automation for Ebank must mean a lot.
Black Sun Empire |
Roger Kiyosaki
|
Posted - 2009.05.06 11:47:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Roger Kiyosaki on 06/05/2009 11:47:33 It's so obvious. Apply kabbalic numerology to the letters of "JohnDoe". Then use an XOR logic with "23" (clear illuminatic evidence) on those numbers, reconvert them back to letters you get "VCPESCE". Shuffle those around a bit and you get "CCPSEVE", CCP'S EVE!
Clearly, John Doe is controlled by CCP which in turn is controlled by the Illuminati.
Now join me in putting your tinfoil hats on.
|
Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles Zzz
|
Posted - 2009.05.06 12:26:00 -
[26]
Originally by: YouGotRipped My guess is that transactions under 1000 isk are not tracked and it was some type of isk laundering thing.
Goodness, EVE has smurfing now? --- 20:1 mineral compression ISRC Racing, Season 7 - schedule |
Krylon Rhae
|
Posted - 2009.05.06 13:06:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Roger Kiyosaki Edited by: Roger Kiyosaki on 06/05/2009 11:47:33 It's so obvious. Apply kabbalic numerology to the letters of "JohnDoe". Then use an XOR logic with "23" (clear illuminatic evidence) on those numbers, reconvert them back to letters you get "VCPESCE". Shuffle those around a bit and you get "CCPSEVE", CCP'S EVE!
Clearly, John Doe is controlled by CCP which in turn is controlled by the Illuminati.
Now join me in putting your tinfoil hats on.
P R I C E L E S S !
|
YouGotRipped
Ewigkeit
|
Posted - 2009.05.06 13:09:00 -
[28]
Edited by: YouGotRipped on 06/05/2009 13:15:40
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
Originally by: YouGotRipped My guess is that transactions under 1000 isk are not tracked and it was some type of isk laundering thing.
Goodness, EVE has smurfing now?
Upon checking the transaction log there are as much as 20 transaction / minute all under 200 isk (not 1000 isk as I previously though) from 12:44 to 13:12 EVE time and the guy was selling pyerite too (I was buying these two types at that moment). It's quite possible to have been the red strips low profile mission running type of John Doe.
Since that event, I'm setting a minimum quantity for my minerals buy orders.
Black Sun Empire |
Alex555
|
Posted - 2009.05.06 13:21:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Roger Kiyosaki Edited by: Roger Kiyosaki on 06/05/2009 11:47:33 It's so obvious. Apply kabbalic numerology to the letters of "JohnDoe". Then use an XOR logic with "23" (clear illuminatic evidence) on those numbers, reconvert them back to letters you get "VCPESCE". Shuffle those around a bit and you get "CCPSEVE", CCP'S EVE!
Clearly, John Doe is controlled by CCP which in turn is controlled by the Illuminati.
Now join me in putting your tinfoil hats on.
that's chronic
|
Dzil
Caldari Second Quadrant Ice Division
|
Posted - 2009.05.06 14:13:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Also, why do CCP lock these threads even when they discuss how to kill bots / exploits?
WHOA WHOA WHOA.
The whole point of this thread is to have a healthy discussion of a matter important to us, while not breaking any forum rules. Please don't discuss moderation in this thread.
Instead, discuss why Jane Doe refuses to talk about John Doe.
....
Carry on.
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |