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Template Girl
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Posted - 2009.05.06 05:11:00 -
[1]
CCP stated before apo that they wanted t3 to be around the 300m range. I think that I along with many others are very excited to utilize T3 for its flexability (combat/exploration/covops/support) and looks , but only if their price/performance ratio is acceptable. I know it is still way too early to tell how they will adjust naturally but that is not the kind of response I am looking for. I would just like to hear CCP reaffirm their commitment to getting strategic cruisers for say... at least under 500mil for a hull + set of subsystems? Or better yet, please explain what price point/market segment (between HACs and field command?) they want t3 to fall in.
At first I was worried about hulls, but those have been slowly shifting towards reasonable levels. Now I'm beginning to worry about subsystems because they are all expensive but especially the popular weapon systems (legion liquid crystal mags and tengu accelerated ejection bay) which currently cost more than hulls. This is because producers cant choose which offensive subsystem they want to create, there is now a 1/4 chance to get a BPC of the popular weapon subsystem out of a weapon subsystem artifact. Compared to hulls which have a 100% chance to get the hull BPC of your choosing as long as you succeed (which is probably why hulls have been slowly settling down in price). If this demand combined with the producers inability to deliver the specifically demanded subsystem creates a price chokehold on buyers, is CCP willing to step in and adjust things so that the total t3 package can settle at a reasonable market price?
We would hate to see so much work and such cool ships go to waste, CCP surely you have given this thought and can be so kind as to share with us your thoughts? Before you flame, I know there are a lot of people posting about their concerns on t3 pricing, but if we could maybe get something official to quell our doubts maybe we all can rest easier. Throw some bumps in here if you want to hear an official word.
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Kuolematon
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2009.05.06 05:48:00 -
[2]
T3 business is going to turn nasty soon. People who jumped there early is dumping their stocks to market at bottom prices. Soon you will see double or triple prices on T3 hulls AND comps. Enjoy!
"The Amarr are the tanking and ganking floating rods of goldcrap"
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Digital Solaris
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Posted - 2009.05.06 06:28:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Kuolematon T3 business is going to turn nasty soon. People who jumped there early is dumping their stocks to market at bottom prices. Soon you will see double or triple prices on T3 hulls AND comps. Enjoy!
It depends though, as more and more people are going into w-space, more people will gain access to the components for t3. But prices has always been something that shifts, so it shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone really.
OP: And while CCP may have stated one thing in the past on t3 prices, what sets the price in the long run is the players who runs the market. |
Korerin Mayul
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Posted - 2009.05.06 06:51:00 -
[4]
CCP do not have a magic 'make t3 cost effective' button. The market is organic, player driven and fluid. price will fall as the supply of the raw materials increases. If you want a nice T3 ship for a normal, forget they exist, for at least a year, thats my position.
one of the downsides of hole-space is that all the profitable things it produces en masse are tied to T3 production, so the number of market-minded people killing sleepers will be proportional to the worth of the T3 bits. Except for ninja minerals and other players, isk dosent leave the holes unless its final destination is T3.
I myself cant see anything as felxable and sexylooking as T3 going for less then 10mil. This assumes that people accept the skills loss, this may be a blocker to widespread adaptation, whch will drive the price up
it looks like, (and i know its too early to tell, but ill go right ahead and say it anyway) price/capibility/performance wise, T3 would be more aptly named T2.5, neither HACs or Command ships go for less then 10 mil, and take more infrastructural effort, but less player effort to produce (moons dont shoot back!) i look forward to owning one, but its a loooooong way forward ;)
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Joe
Umbra Legion Shadow Empire.
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Posted - 2009.05.06 07:39:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Template Girl CCP stated before apo that they wanted t3 to be around the 300m range.
You need to Link to Original Quotes when you post comments like that
ATM the only (Industrial) reason to go into Wormholes is to be part of the Tech III production chain. There's no Moons to mine, No Sov to Capture, and the only (Industrial) Financial benefits are for those tht want to cash in on the Tech III craze.
Without High demand, and High returns for Wormholers, you'll see a drop in Interested explorers, not willing to Risk Ships VS Sleepers for minimal rewards. For this reason i see a Full Hull+subsystem Set allways costing 500 to 1bil.
You also quote 'Price/performance' Ratio as something that has had an Impact on price, which as far as ive seen, has never been the case in Eve. It has allways Been a 'Supply/Demand' Issue, from day 1.
P.s, I've allready offset the Price of my Legion in the 2 weeks I've had it, but i bought the Cheap'n'Nasty, and not the EFT warrior modules
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Ctica
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Posted - 2009.05.06 07:46:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Korerin Mayul CCP do not have a magic 'make t3 cost effective' button. The market is organic, player driven and fluid. price will fall as the supply of the raw materials increases. If you want a nice T3 ship for a normal, forget they exist, for at least a year, thats my position.
Exactly, its the players who set the prices. Problem with tech 3 is, its not tech 2. Most people are hung up on that dead horse, where only the cartels really make the moneys. It will take awhile for the intermediate industrialists to get the skills/take over.
Tech 3 is the future, Im guessing strategic cruisers are the tech 2 mining lasers of tech 3.
Keep watching price dip soon.
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Reven Cordelle
Caldari Yamainu-Mirai Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2009.05.06 08:23:00 -
[7]
Unfortunately, obtaining T3 components is hard and requires team work.
Therefore the prices will forever be ridiculously high - CCP overlooked the fact that the majority of people who like to make money, generally just mine whatevers selling the best - or trade between hubs. From the POV from the semi-casual EVE player, T3 Ships are made of the same Weapons Grade UnobtainiumÖ that Titans are.
Wormhole Exploration is still pretty niche, which is fine. The problem is that because T3 is a product of Wormhole Exploration, the niche continues the ridiculous prices and thus... we will never see sub-500m prices, at least not this year.
And when Ambulation comes out? Well, any of those 3 day a week players that MIGHT have gone into W-Space are now just playing Habbo Hotel in space. (I like the idea of Ambulation, thats exactly what i'll end up doing.)
Oh, and don't forget the fact that the instant a T3 ship is spotted in anything but Empire - its ganked to hell and back for a juicy killmail.
All in all, T3 ships are just pimpmobiles. Vicious ones.
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Braaage
Ministry of Craft
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Posted - 2009.05.06 08:48:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Korerin Mayul CCP do not have a magic 'make t3 cost effective' button. The market is organic, player driven and fluid. price will fall as the supply of the raw materials increases. If you want a nice T3 ship for a normal, forget they exist, for at least a year, thats my position.
This.
When prices of datacores and relics drop (IE the reverse engineering part of the process) then you will see the Hulls and subsystems drop. However as already stated these prices are set by players.
Some people wont appreciate the work that goes into the reverse engineering part. These subsystems you see for sale now at 40-50M don't have any RE costs included. That said certain subsystems are still overpriced but that's because they are more rare than others on the RE outcome.
I don't know how anyone can use Intact Hull relics in the RE job simply because the relic is very close to the actual Hull selling price and that's without any other material in the RE or build process. --
POSs, Outposts, Exploration, Mining, Invention, Boosters, EA EVE Database, T2/T3 production & more |
ollobrains
Caldari State Inc. People for Organised Peace
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Posted - 2009.05.06 09:22:00 -
[9]
THere is just one little *****, not enough datacores and two bits of rarer orange salvage that just dont drop in anything but the class 6 systems meaning prices are 1b for hull and another 400m of so for the rest. 1.4b total cost versus 300m CCP original goal - thats after neraly 2 months ccp note the issues at hand
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Mashie Saldana
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams
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Posted - 2009.05.06 10:07:00 -
[10]
Originally by: ollobrains THere is just one little *****, not enough datacores and two bits of rarer orange salvage that just dont drop in anything but the class 6 systems meaning prices are 1b for hull and another 400m of so for the rest. 1.4b total cost versus 300m CCP original goal - thats after neraly 2 months ccp note the issues at hand
I agree on the datacores but for the rare salvage, we got 5-10 of each per site in class 4 and up systems.
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Ombey
Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.05.06 10:21:00 -
[11]
Yea, the bottleneck seems to be datacores in my, albeit limited, experience. Too expensive to buy off the market, we have to go in and get our own. No big deal in itself, just slows everything down.
2d EveMaps|My blog
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Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari Sane Industries Inc. United Freemen Alliance
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Posted - 2009.05.06 10:59:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Joe
Originally by: Template Girl CCP stated before apo that they wanted t3 to be around the 300m range.
You need to Link to Original Quotes when you post comments like that
Yeah, cause the dev said 100-300 million range, so he's totally wrong there.
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Joe
Umbra Legion Shadow Empire.
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Posted - 2009.05.06 11:19:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab
Originally by: Joe
Originally by: Template Girl CCP stated before apo that they wanted t3 to be around the 300m range.
You need to Link to Original Quotes when you post comments like that
Yeah, cause the dev said 100-300 million range, so he's totally wrong there.
You need to Link to Original Quotes when you post comments like that
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.05.06 11:19:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Korerin Mayul CCP do not have a magic 'make t3 cost effective' button.
Yes they do.
It's called "boosting drop rates, increasing number of sites, raising chance for sites to spawn, lower gas volumes, lower cost in materials, increase reverse engineering chances, add selection of desired reverse engineering result" and so on and so forth.
It's not magic and it's not a button, but it's just as good as a magic button.
EVE issues|Mining revamp|Build stuff|Make ISK |
Marcellus Corteaz
Alt Corp
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Posted - 2009.05.06 11:22:00 -
[15]
Amusingly enough, the only person who can convince you that T3 is worth the price is...you.
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Winterblink
Body Count Inc. Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.05.06 11:30:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Marcellus Corteaz Amusingly enough, the only person who can convince you that T3 is worth the price is...you.
*points* That.
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Don Trust'im
Ministry of War
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Posted - 2009.05.06 11:32:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Joe
Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab
Originally by: Joe
Originally by: Template Girl CCP stated before apo that they wanted t3 to be around the 300m range.
You need to Link to Original Quotes when you post comments like that
Yeah, cause the dev said 100-300 million range, so he's totally wrong there.
You need to Link to Original Quotes when you post comments like that
No he doesn't, dev's stated this twice actually. Once before the patch, and then once after when it became clear T3 will never be that cheap. (first was in a dev blog I believe if you want to go digging for it)
T3 will never be much cheaper because the dev's were under the impression people do things as a group in this game other than blobbing PVP, but they don't. This a very "greedy" game, and only a select few actually have the talent, dedication to their corp and corpmates, and drive to go into WH space and work together to accomplish anything. On top of that, there are just waaaay to many easier ways to make isk to be bothered with WH space.
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Mr Reeth
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Posted - 2009.05.06 11:35:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Joe
P.s, I've allready offset the Price of my Legion in the 2 weeks I've had it, but i bought the Cheap'n'Nasty, and not the EFT warrior modules
You did what?! You made all that cash back already?
PS Where's my medal?
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Joe
Umbra Legion Shadow Empire.
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Posted - 2009.05.06 11:46:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Joe on 06/05/2009 11:48:19 Editted to fix broken qoutation formatting
Originally by: Don Trust'im
Originally by: Joe
You need to Link to Original Quotes when you post comments like that
No he doesn't, dev's stated this twice actually.
'quoting' a dev without a link is a waste of a post, unless your intention is the spread missinformation, to further your arguement
Example:
Thread Title: Why are Tech III cruiser underpriced?? Thread content: Devs stated numerous times that Strategic cruisers would cost 50 billion isk. Why are they currently selling at 1/50th of the intentional price? Clearly something is broken.
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Nomakai Delateriel
Amarr Ammatar Free Corps
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Posted - 2009.05.06 11:50:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Korerin Mayul CCP do not have a magic 'make t3 cost effective' button.
Yes they do.
It's called "boosting drop rates, increasing number of sites, raising chance for sites to spawn, lower gas volumes, lower cost in materials, increase reverse engineering chances, add selection of desired reverse engineering result" and so on and so forth.
It's not magic and it's not a button, but it's just as good as a magic button.
Except that it's not as good as a magic button. Hard to calculate the effects of such a move before the market has achieved something even resembling an equilibrium. Eventually some adjustments will happen, but probably not now. ______________________________________________ -My respect can not be won, only lost. It's given freely and only grudgingly withdrawn. |
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Joe
Umbra Legion Shadow Empire.
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Posted - 2009.05.06 11:51:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Mr Reeth PS Where's my medal?
Medal's cost 5mil isk to design, and 5mil isk everytime you award them: You pay 0% tax, and im still trying to save for some decent subsystems :P
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Polinus
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2009.05.06 11:53:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Marcellus Corteaz Amusingly enough, the only person who can convince you that T3 is worth the price is...you.
I think you are able to understand the concept that the main feature of the whole expansion must be reachable to a reasonable ammount of players to be anywhere near the tag of "success" It doe snto matter if its worth or not. It matters if people CAN buy them.... and now.. they cannot realistically. That means apocripa was useles until now.
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CommmanderInChief
Comply Or Die
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Posted - 2009.05.06 11:58:00 -
[23]
Strange why CCP brought out T3, as they as so adaptable, then will there be any need to use all the other ships? However they may just not get used purely because of the price and skill loss involved perhaps. I mean look at black ops, mauraders dont really get used that much, and they were supposed to be a the next big thing, even electronic attack ships...There seems to be specialist ships, but ppl just stick to the others and place those specific mods on. Perhaps CCP should change it so that you can only fit specific mods on those specific ships..Like EWAR only on electronic attack ships, etc..
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards Hoodlums Associates
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Posted - 2009.05.06 12:02:00 -
[24]
A cov ops cloak and the ability to ignore bubbles. Those two things already make them worth the money.
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Nomakai Delateriel
Amarr Ammatar Free Corps
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Posted - 2009.05.06 12:06:00 -
[25]
Originally by: CommmanderInChief Strange why CCP brought out T3, as they as so adaptable, then will there be any need to use all the other ships? However they may just not get used purely because of the price and skill loss involved perhaps. I mean look at black ops, mauraders dont really get used that much, and they were supposed to be a the next big thing, even electronic attack ships...There seems to be specialist ships, but ppl just stick to the others and place those specific mods on. Perhaps CCP should change it so that you can only fit specific mods on those specific ships..Like EWAR only on electronic attack ships, etc..
T3 isn't anywhere near as powerful as the specialist ships when they're in their specialist configuration. What they do provide is specialist roles + tank or if you want other specialist advantages. But as an example a Tengu jammer is not as powerful as a rook or falcon when it comes to jamming, or as agile as a kitsune.
Black Ops&Marauders don't get used that much because they're quite specialized and were never meant to be the next big thing.
Electronic attack ships are decent (and I've used them on several occasions. They suffer because Force Recons are better at the specalized role and fulfill many of the niches that EAS fulfill when compared to the basic EW-war cruiser). IMHO there is generally good balance, except that I'm not sure I like the T3 Cov Ops+Bubble Immunity+tank combinations that are possible at the moment. ______________________________________________ -My respect can not be won, only lost. It's given freely and only grudgingly withdrawn. |
Tippia
Raddick Explorations BlackWater.
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Posted - 2009.05.06 12:07:00 -
[26]
Also: Originally by: CCP Chronotis However you can probably gauge yourselves how much you would be willing to pay for one and I personally would expect that price range to sit between 100-300 million for many people after the initial shiny phase is past.
…from here. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
FarosWarrior
Amarr Sonnema
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Posted - 2009.05.06 12:17:00 -
[27]
Chrono is talking about a shiny period...
apparently after 2 months its still not over so you will just have to wait, EVE has always been a game of waiting, this just adds to the fun ^^ cheers, Faros
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations BlackWater.
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Posted - 2009.05.06 12:21:00 -
[28]
Originally by: FarosWarrior Chrono is talking about a shiny period...
apparently after 2 months its still not over so you will just have to wait, EVE has always been a game of waiting, this just adds to the fun ^^
The problem is that, shiny period or not, the prices will not come down to those levels because of the manhours required to gather the required resources and create the BPCs.
Waiting will not solve this, unless you predict that over time, people (and especially mass producers) will stop caring about how much their time is worth. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
Joe
Umbra Legion Shadow Empire.
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Posted - 2009.05.06 12:47:00 -
[29]
Originally by: CCP Chronotis Ultimately you will pay what you think the strategic cruisers are worth . Once we are past the new and shiny initial prices, the material prices will filter down from there and how much value T3 resource harvesting rates and wormhole ops will have.
However you can probably gauge yourselves how much you would be willing to pay for one and I personally would expect that price range to sit between 100-300 million for many people after the initial shiny phase is past.
Thankyou so much Tippia, i honetly find digging through forums for quotes a pain.
Not only did you find the quote, but you verified the 'Demand/supply' principles that EVE is based on; 'Ultimately you will pay what you think the strategic cruisers are worth'
The 300mil Geustimate isnt even an official CCP pricing guide, but mearly 1 dev Speculating what the prices might settle at
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations BlackWater.
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Posted - 2009.05.06 12:51:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Joe The 300mil Geustimate isnt even an official CCP pricing guide, but mearly 1 dev Speculating what the prices might settle at
True. It's just too bad that the speculation has no basis in reality and is probably two or three times short of the actual equilibrium price…
And while it's not a pricing guide, it may very well be the guesstimate that has guided the internal balancing of the things, which would lead them very wrong. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
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