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SecHaul
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Posted - 2009.05.09 00:14:00 -
[121]
Edited by: SecHaul on 09/05/2009 00:18:34
Originally by: Xennith
Originally by: SecHaul CCP are rebalancing agility, and cloak / warp makes a mockery of the idea of 0.0 being dangerous, all you need is a cloak and half a brain to avoid a bubble and it's 100% safe.
just quoting this for giggles. this person thinks that they can get through any bubblecamp with a cloak and a mwd, 100% guaranteed.
hahahahahaha.
Just quoting this for a laugh at lack of reading comprehension and assumptions. I'll give you a hint at your lack of understanding english: avoiding a bubble is != to being in a bubble.
And yes, if you jump blind into any system and into a bubble camp, you should be in trouble. This change impacts that slightly for cov op ships, but previously you could jump blind into any system, and unless there *was* a bubble, you could happily warp away from even sensor boosted interceptors.
hahaha, how big we all are pointing fingers on the internets.
All you hardcore PvP alliances crying about a much needed, and valid, change. Pathetic
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ArmyOfMe
The Athiest Syndicate Advocated Destruction
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Posted - 2009.05.09 00:40:00 -
[122]
Originally by: Conlin
Seeing as you dont solo roam , and dont know guerilla tactics you wouldnt !!. This nerf will kill that of . Think about it .
seriously, so many times have ppl said that a nerf will be the end of guerilla warfare(i should know, ive said the same thing before as well), and so many times has it been proven wrong that you should just sit back and wait, cause in the end players will adapt.
remember the stab nerf? everyone said it was the end of guerilla warfare, same with the nano nerf and so on
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Exlegion
Caldari New Light
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Posted - 2009.05.09 02:43:00 -
[123]
Originally by: Susan Kennedy As a previous poster points out - perhaps you could consider some alteration when it comes to cov ops cloaks to placate the 0.0 crowd - but there is absolotuly no way a combat fit battleship should be able to cheat its way past a specialized gatecamp by taking advantage of the cloak breaking effect.
Good Work CCP - Youve Made my day!
I have no problems in taking my low sec Level 4 battleship back to high sec after this change. Just don't act surprised when there are even less targets (ie, NO PVE BATTLESHIPS) in low sec.
One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Gang Starr |
Easley Thames
The Maverick Navy Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.05.09 03:07:00 -
[124]
Originally by: ArmyOfMe
Originally by: Conlin
Seeing as you dont solo roam , and dont know guerilla tactics you wouldnt !!. This nerf will kill that of . Think about it .
seriously, so many times have ppl said that a nerf will be the end of guerilla warfare(i should know, ive said the same thing before as well), and so many times has it been proven wrong that you should just sit back and wait, cause in the end players will adapt.
remember the stab nerf? everyone said it was the end of guerilla warfare, same with the nano nerf and so on
Nano nerf wasn't quite so bad for soloists precisely because of the ability to, with *some* frequency, avoid camps using a cloak + functional human brain. A large camp still had a great chance of frying all but the fastest ships and even covops could be found with enough effort or luck.
The bottom line is that I adapted like most other soloists and tanked my ships properly after the nano nerf, but what's the adaptation now? Just not soloing in 0.0? Avoiding gates and cloaking up in busy systems all day to pick off lazy ratters?
This change, while it doesn't kill an entire array of ship setups like the nano nerf, really will impact soloing in a way that is not adaptable as far as I can see. How do you propose we get past gate-camps? Should that particular tactic really be further buffed and rewarded? It's probably the laziest form of pvp in the game and with proper scouting in surrounding systems campers are also taking almost no risk.
I think this nerf must be related to the idiots failing to tackle a mwd + cloak tricking ship in lowsec, where there are no bubbles, and complaining on the forums. My corp found a solution. It's not that hard to bring a suicide t1 frig or a fast locking, fast moving de-cloaker to enable a remote-sebo HID/HIC to insta-lock the target. We've even caught T2 cloak-warping haulers in this manner. I'm sure many others had their own solution as well. Furthermore, the agility nerf should have addressed the "unlockable" ship tackling problems between boats in the same class.
As for cov-ops and recons, short of smart-bombing off a gate they probably SHOULDN'T die just moving through low-sec. Does a blob have to be able to kill everything regardless of the pilot making all the right decisions to survive?
I will personally not roam solo in cruisers anymore if it is implemented because I know I will die to the first sizeable gate-camp I encounter. Not "probably die," it will be a near certainty. That does not excite me or encourage me to challenge myself.
Ultimately, my preferred play-style is once again patched out of the game. What will I do now for solo? I guess a cloaking interceptor might still make it through most camps
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Ulstan
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Posted - 2009.05.09 03:08:00 -
[125]
I dislike this change. I think it will make small gang/solo roaming PVP even harder, and drastically screw over covert ops, recons, stealth bombers, and black ops.
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Dark 0men
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.05.09 04:33:00 -
[126]
Edited by: Dark 0men on 09/05/2009 04:34:15 reposting from scrapheap:
Okay, just tested on sisi with a geddon and improved cloak. The amount of time MWD can be active while cloaked is related to ship agility. Without any modules, MWD shuts off immediately after cloak comes on. With 3 istabs, MWD lasts for about 1/3rd of a cycle, and gives enough speed to instawarp.
Cliff notes: cloaky ships: boned fat battleships: boned travel fit battleships: LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL instawarps safely after 3 seconds. Good luck decloaking it.
At a guess, CCP decided to randomly **** with some code, and screwed this up by accident.
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Space Wanderer
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Posted - 2009.05.09 06:17:00 -
[127]
Originally by: Dark 0men travel fit battleships: LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL instawarps safely after 3 seconds. Good luck decloaking it.
Yes, I noticed the same thing. I was just trying to not tell it to the rabid campers out there till the changes went through, to see their faces afterwards. Oh well. :-)
Originally by: Dark 0men At a guess, CCP decided to randomly **** with some code, and screwed this up by accident.
This is exactly what the campers asked, and if you know the warp mechanics you also know that it is no bug. It's exactly how things would work if you allow early shutdown of mwd. I think that the lesson here is to be careful to what you wish for.
What REALLY happened here is probably that CCP attacked the more serious issue of modules like ECM still cycling while cloaked. And in so doing seriously affected 0.0 travel. Hope they find a way around it.
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Naterran Epos
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Posted - 2009.05.09 07:42:00 -
[128]
Edited by: Naterran Epos on 09/05/2009 07:42:47 There was a really simple way to stop people using this trick. Once someone is locked they cant cloak etc.
Get a HIC.
This change is just one more lame change, cant be arsed to moan, the Nag boost made me happy that after 3 years the dev team had woken up, now all you need to get something nerfed is an army of whingers on the forums and a dev thats not got anything else to do with his time.
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Demption
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Posted - 2009.05.09 09:01:00 -
[129]
Originally by: Shannon Hayes I just don't get where this is coming from. I don't think I've ever heard anyone complaining about this mechanic. Is there something I'm missing?
It's fine as it is now.
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Susan Kennedy
Gallente Eddie Murphy Appreciation Society Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups
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Posted - 2009.05.09 10:37:00 -
[130]
Edited by: Susan Kennedy on 09/05/2009 10:40:00
Originally by: Exlegion
Originally by: Susan Kennedy As a previous poster points out - perhaps you could consider some alteration when it comes to cov ops cloaks to placate the 0.0 crowd - but there is absolotuly no way a combat fit battleship should be able to cheat its way past a specialized gatecamp by taking advantage of the cloak breaking effect.
Good Work CCP - Youve Made my day!
I have no problems in taking my low sec Level 4 battleship back to high sec after this change. Just don't act surprised when there are even less targets (ie, NO PVE BATTLESHIPS) in low sec.
I have no problem with you taking your golem back to higsec either.
Please tell me what the benefits are to anyone but yourself of you running missions in lowsec - and why we should all be so upset at your threat to pick up your toys and flee to highsec
The only reason you are in lowsec is for the higher quality agents/complex and subsequent boost to your own wallet/standings.
You choose a fit, and exploit a unintended feature/bug which prevents you from ever being tackled barring a chance unlucky uncloak with a space pea.
Your presence therefore benefits neither local pirates, other mission runners, passing cyno alts, roaming gangs etc etc
I think you should be ashamed of yourself for defending this obvious exploit simply so your wallet grows a little faster every day.
Try to maintain some perspective - and not be so self centered in future.
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Susan Kennedy
Gallente Eddie Murphy Appreciation Society Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups
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Posted - 2009.05.09 10:39:00 -
[131]
Edited by: Susan Kennedy on 09/05/2009 10:43:03 Edited by: Susan Kennedy on 09/05/2009 10:40:43
Originally by: Naterran Epos Edited by: Naterran Epos on 09/05/2009 07:54:19 Edited by: Naterran Epos on 09/05/2009 07:42:47 There was a really simple way to stop people using this trick. Once someone is locked they cant cloak etc.
Get a HIC.
Noob pilot should think before speak
The issue, of course, is once someone is cloaked they cant be locked. And a cloak takes 0.1 seconds to activate.
WTB HIC that can lock in 0.l seconds.
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Neddy Fox
Gallente Paxton Industries Paxton Federation
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Posted - 2009.05.09 11:01:00 -
[132]
When using cloak/MWD , your MWD will be active for about 1/3 of the cycle, w/e fittings you have. I tested only with the CO cloak though.
---- [PXIN Recruiter]
PXIN Recruitement thread |
Trimutius III
Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance
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Posted - 2009.05.09 11:04:00 -
[133]
Originally by: Dark 0men Edited by: Dark 0men on 09/05/2009 04:34:15 reposting from scrapheap:
Okay, just tested on sisi with a geddon and improved cloak. The amount of time MWD can be active while cloaked is related to ship agility. Without any modules, MWD shuts off immediately after cloak comes on. With 3 istabs, MWD lasts for about 1/3rd of a cycle, and gives enough speed to instawarp.
Cliff notes: cloaky ships: boned fat battleships: boned travel fit battleships: LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL instawarps safely after 3 seconds. Good luck decloaking it.
At a guess, CCP decided to randomly **** with some code, and screwed this up by accident.
Yes yes... Issue Should be reworked... There is much problems with it right now...
Originally by: Susan Kennedy
Noob pilot should think before speak
The issue, of course, is once someone is cloaked they cant be locked. And a cloak takes 0.1 seconds to activate.
WTB HIC that can lock in 0.l seconds.
No There is sense in his talk... There is feature that if somebody started to lock u and haven't yet locked u u can't already cloak, but this works only after 1-2 seconds because of lags or something like that... As u said it takes 0.1 seconds to cloak and there is no chance that server will work in favor of tackler... ------------------------------------------------- I am envoy from nowhere in nowhere. Nobody and nothing have sent me. And though it is impossible I exist ¬ Trimutius |
WarriorTooth
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Posted - 2009.05.09 12:00:00 -
[134]
Edited by: WarriorTooth on 09/05/2009 12:02:18 Ships that are not broken and are seriously affected by this change:
1) Recons and covops (mwd + cloak is the only way you can hope to get far enough from your recloak spot before inties land there)
2) Solo cloaking hacs and interdictors (some people prefer buffing their survivability by screwing their ability to catch stuff)
3) Fleet interdictors (they rely on mwd + bubble + cloak + mwd to get out of the center of the bubble so they don't get decloaked in large fleet fights)
Haven't we me made warfare 0.0 problob enough??!
Why not just mess with agililty/mass/warp velocity of the ships that shouldn't be able to pass through camps that easily? (t1 indies, ratting bses, ...)
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ArmyOfMe
The Athiest Syndicate Advocated Destruction
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Posted - 2009.05.09 13:06:00 -
[135]
Originally by: Exlegion
I have no problems in taking my low sec Level 4 battleship back to high sec after this change. Just don't act surprised when there are even less targets (ie, NO PVE BATTLESHIPS) in low sec.
its not the pve battleships we are after anyhow, so you wont be missed
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Trimutius III
Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance
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Posted - 2009.05.09 13:53:00 -
[136]
LOL... Looks like it's fail... Something that should be nerfed was boosted accidently. Something that should be nerfed was nerfed. Once more "EPIC FAIL"?
I do agree i had idea about such a change ( proof link ), but what we have now on SiSi isn't what i expected in result... BSes should be nerfed, about nerf of Cov Ops cloaks i'm not quite sure, but using Carriers (or Jump Freighers or Rorqual) for transporting matters and flying in Interceptors through camps isn't that hard for me... Just don't try to fly through camps that u can't fly through MWD back to gate takes only 1-2 seconds after some training (if no chance of warpout why not going back) u can train running back to gate in highsecs for example.
But yes Cov Ops cloak maybe shouldn't be nerfed. Or covert ships should have speed boost. Or they should have bubble immunity... with bubble immunity still 0.0 secs would be harder then lowsecs, because interceptors are easily killed by sentries and and Recons also not really good tank for sentries, and in 0.0 secs there is no such problem... ------------------------------------------------- I am envoy from nowhere in nowhere. Nobody and nothing have sent me. And though it is impossible I exist ¬ Trimutius |
Space Wanderer
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Posted - 2009.05.09 13:55:00 -
[137]
Originally by: Susan Kennedy Try to maintain some perspective - and not be so self centered in future.
Could be said about you. You serioulsly don't understand what a FURTHER lack of targets might do to lowsec?
PERSPECTIVE:
The problem that many people against mwd + cloak have, is that they make the (wrong) assumption that there is no pvp except gatecamps. In your reply it is clear that you make the same assumption. However, as new as it might seem to you, there is not only gatecamping pvp in EVE. There is mission runner's hunting, miners' hunting, ratter's hunting, none of which is affected by mwd+cloak. There is antipiracy, which also is not affected by it.
Strangling the traffic into lowsec means that a pirate has LESS target (no mission runners/ratters/miners to frag), antipirates have LESS target (cause what pirate will be wasting his time roaming a wasteland? 0.0 or gatecamping will be the way to go) and gatecampers will have LESS targets as soon as the targets adapts (people without a scout won't go in lowsec).
Everybody would lose. It doesn't appear it will be the case (for lowsec at least, I feel for the 0.0 solo people ), but if CCP went through with this, I will profit from it. Conversely pvpers will get bored to death from it.
You might want to clarify what is the non-selfcentered perspective that suggests you to go this way.
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Space Wanderer
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Posted - 2009.05.09 14:00:00 -
[138]
Originally by: ArmyOfMe its not the pve battleships we are after anyhow
So why you want to kill it?
There are sensible arguments that could be used against the cloak + mwd. But whoever resorts to the "we don't want more targets in lowsec" arguments is shooting himself in the foot, IMO.
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Gaia Devir
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Posted - 2009.05.09 14:40:00 -
[139]
This kills any way of going solo in 0.0 or low sec unless you are in a frigate or a huge blob.
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Jalif
Black Sinisters
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Posted - 2009.05.09 14:51:00 -
[140]
I heared you can't activate a cloak or MWD after you decloaked? You have to wait for 3 seconds I heard. Is this true?
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Amberle Vale
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Posted - 2009.05.09 15:07:00 -
[141]
Why make camping more effective than it already is?
Why make solo travel in 0.0 suicide?
Discuss
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Trimutius III
Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance
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Posted - 2009.05.09 15:55:00 -
[142]
Originally by: Jalif I heared you can't activate a cloak or MWD after you decloaked? You have to wait for 3 seconds I heard. Is this true?
For cloak there is programmed delay if u diactivated cloak then u can't reactivate it for 30 second or 5 seconds if it is Cov Ops cloak. For MWD there is no programmed delay, but stil there is some delay based on ur ping and also with a perfect ping it still delayed somewhy...
Originally by: Amberle Vale Why make camping more effective than it already is?
Why make solo travel in 0.0 suicide?
Discuss
Already discussed... Read the thread carefully... ------------------------------------------------- I am envoy from nowhere in nowhere. Nobody and nothing have sent me. And though it is impossible I exist ¬ Trimutius |
Susan Kennedy
Gallente Eddie Murphy Appreciation Society Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups
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Posted - 2009.05.09 16:57:00 -
[143]
Originally by: Space Wanderer
Originally by: Susan Kennedy Try to maintain some perspective - and not be so self centered in future.
The problem that many people against mwd + cloak have, is that they make the (wrong) assumption that there is no pvp except gatecamps. In your reply it is clear that you make the same assumption. However, as new as it might seem to you, there is not only gatecamping pvp in EVE. There is mission runner's hunting, miners' hunting, ratter's hunting, none of which is affected by mwd+cloak. There is antipiracy, which also is not affected by it.
Local Chat ruins all the above forms of pvp.
If you are mining, mission running, or ratting in lowsec - you watch local - and align out when it goes up.
Mining in lowsec is a waste of time anyway Mission runners in low sec are fully aware of how to hit the scan button, and get ready to dock when probes show up Ratters in low sec - Despite the better rats - its rare to see anyone other then noobs ratting Antipirates - your stretching the point here - we are talking about non concensual pvp - not a couple of frigates going at it in a belt
The best you can do to an alert pilot - is park an alt in system, cloak it, and go afk for several hours hoping he will undock and risk it. Eve turns into a metagaming bore-athon
Threatening me with the prospect that a mwd-cloak target that is nigh on impossible to catch (baring a freak uncloak)- wont come to lowsec is not something that will keep me awake at night.
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Matrix Skye
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2009.05.09 17:06:00 -
[144]
Gatecamping needed a buff anyway. And low sec was getting too populated. I for one welcome these changes.
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Vitrael
Reaper Industries Eternal Rapture
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Posted - 2009.05.09 17:12:00 -
[145]
Originally by: Matrix Skye Gatecamping needed a buff anyway. And low sec was getting too populated. I for one welcome these changes.
2/10
This is a conspiracy by CCP to somehow make my Rapier even more squishy. -----
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Jackal79
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Posted - 2009.05.09 17:32:00 -
[146]
All this does is further encourage blobbing, which already dominates 0.0 warfare.
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Space Wanderer
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Posted - 2009.05.09 17:53:00 -
[147]
Originally by: Susan Kennedy Local Chat ruins all the above forms of pvp.
I tend to agree with you here, local should go. Still, this is off topic. What is ON topic is that I don't see any reason to ruin them MORE. Besides...
Originally by: Susan Kennedy If you are mining, mission running, or ratting in lowsec - you watch local - and align out when it goes up.
This argument is flawless when you are in 0.0. However, CURRENTLY, in lowsec it's not working very well because there IS people in lowsec. Basing your actions on local is inefficient at best, unless you are in a very deserted system. But if gatecamping is buffed so much that no solo player (pvper or pver) can move in lowsec, the "neutral" population will drop and suddenly local turns much more important.
Originally by: Susan Kennedy
Mining in lowsec is a waste of time anyway
You forgot the exploration belts containing 0.0 ore, didn't you?
Originally by: Susan Kennedy
Mission runners in low sec are fully aware of how to hit the scan button, and get ready to dock when probes show up
Yes, certainly they are. I suppose that pirates everywhere have covops and drop combat probes everywhere in lowsec because they like to lose their time? What you say does not seem to be supported by facts.
Probing people down is a test of awreness and skill from both sides and is part of pvp, especially with the new system. If you just probe people like you probe exploration sites expect to warn your target of your presence.
Originally by: Susan Kennedy
Ratters in low sec - Despite the better rats - its rare to see anyone other then noobs ratting
Can't say that from direct experience, except that sometime while travelling at gates I see wrecks of rats, so SOMEBODY is ratting. Of course I have no way to know who killed them.
Originally by: Susan Kennedy
Antipirates - your stretching the point here - we are talking about non concensual pvp - not a couple of frigates going at it in a belt
YOU might be talking about non-consensual pvp. I am talking about every kind of pvp. Might be not relevant to you. It probably is relevant for others. You are not the only one playing the game, you know.
Originally by: Susan Kennedy The best you can do to an alert pilot - is park an alt in system, cloak it, and go afk for several hours hoping he will undock and risk it. Eve turns into a metagaming bore-athon
Sorry, but I don't get it. Why in the Divinity's Edge do you think it is your right to be able to catch pilots whose awareness and skill levels are as high as yours or higher? Awareness is a component of pvp, too. What you can do now, and won't if traffic to lowsec is shut down, is to catch people whose awareness OR (player) skill is lower than yours.
Originally by: Susan Kennedy Threatening me with the prospect that a mwd-cloak target that is nigh on impossible to catch (baring a freak uncloak)- wont come to lowsec is not something that will keep me awake at night.
I though you were the one telling others to not be self-centered? Anyway sleep well, I'll be making my profit off your own wallet while you do.
DISCLAIMER: all this discussion is fully hypothetical, as CCP intent is probably to hit cloaked ECM cycles, not mwd as it has been assumed in this thread. Anyway the design intent will be clear when this patch goes live. This thread is certainly providing enough feedback for them to make an informed decision.
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Scatim Helicon
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.05.09 18:19:00 -
[148]
On the off-chance that anyone from CCP is reading this thread, if you think a change to nerf the mwd+cloak trick is needed then could we have it staggered through the different cloak types:
- ship fitted with protocloak = mwd or afterburner deactivates when cloak is switched on - ship fitted with improved cloak = mwd deactivates when cloak is switched on (afterburner still works) - ship fitted with covops cloak = neither mwd or afterburner deactivates when cloak is switched on
Just an idea.
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Neu Bastian
Minmatar Valklear Guard
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Posted - 2009.05.09 18:22:00 -
[149]
the only thing this can and will achieve is reduce the viability of small gang or solo roaming in 0.0, or outright kill it.
What are you trying to do? Make it so the only way to play in 0.0 is to move in huge blobs? so there are less incursions into hostile territory or so it means certain death?
Don't do this. You're killing people's play style. Running bubble camps is though already.
Quote:
Neu Bastian Valklear Guard - CEO
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Dibsi Dei
Salamyhkaisten kilta
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Posted - 2009.05.09 18:52:00 -
[150]
Originally by: Scatim Helicon if you think a change to nerf the mwd+cloak trick is needed
I don't understand why it would be. Double bubble / double dictor camping is too much fun to be dulled to oblivion. Heavy dictors are meant for tackling capitals anyways.
Also like someone already pointed out in lowsec this will just make traveling easier by being able to warp out in a few seconds after mwd+cloaking.
I'm starting to believe it was an accident and hoping CCP isn't stupid enough to implement something like this on TQ.
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