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Trimutius III
Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance
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Posted - 2009.05.09 20:39:00 -
[151]
Edited by: Trimutius III on 09/05/2009 20:40:39 Maybe turning off of MWD should be replaced by:
Afterburner and Microwarpdrive Max Velocity Bonus -90 % Afterburner and Microwarpdrive Thrust Bonus Afterburner and Microwarpdrive Thrust Bonus -80 %
Or even 100%... Penalty like Warp Disruption Field Generator have... Or maybe different cloak should have different penalties... Cov Ops Cloak almost no penalty and Prototype have big penalty... ------------------------------------------------- I am envoy from nowhere in nowhere. Nobody and nothing have sent me. And though it is impossible I exist ¬ Trimutius |
Omara Otawan
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Posted - 2009.05.09 20:59:00 -
[152]
Hmm, this fix does only remotely take the issue at hand into account.
0.0 is not the issue, gates can be bubbled and you got enough time to decloak any ship with non-covops cloak, the problem is lowsec and highsec.
The problem isnt covops cloaked ships either, they are meant to get away in those situations, and quite frankly them showing up on overview after jump for that split second before cloaking up is a joke and nerf enough.
It is my strong belief that this fix should only apply to regular prototype or improved cloaks, covops cloaks need to stay unchanged.
About the fact that BSs with cloak and 3 Istabs can warp out while still cloaked, cant really see the problem here, as that is a true travelfit geared towards fast align while being invisible. It wont be really that powerful in combat without refit, unless I missed Istabs being FOTM on BSs.
Still, imo for the regular cloaks best way for a fix would be making them unable to activate as long as the MWD/AB is running, compared to break the cycle once they activate.
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Trimutius III
Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance
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Posted - 2009.05.09 21:06:00 -
[153]
Originally by: Omara Otawan
About the fact that BSs with cloak and 3 Istabs can warp out while still cloaked, cant really see the problem here, as that is a true travelfit geared towards fast align while being invisible. It wont be really that powerful in combat without refit, unless I missed Istabs being FOTM on BSs.
Maybe... But still funny... BOs is enough... Maybe such a nerf could be another boost of BO... (With bonus to cloak they don't even need MWD to reach enough speed for warp while cloaked)
Quote:
Still, imo for the regular cloaks best way for a fix would be making them unable to activate as long as the MWD/AB is running, compared to break the cycle once they activate.
Interesting idea... ------------------------------------------------- I am envoy from nowhere in nowhere. Nobody and nothing have sent me. And though it is impossible I exist ¬ Trimutius |
Dark 0men
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.05.09 21:08:00 -
[154]
Originally by: Omara Otawan About the fact that BSs with cloak and 3 Istabs can warp out while still cloaked, cant really see the problem here
No, the comedy part is that it instawarps after 3 seconds, instead of the full MWD cycle. The bestest interceptor pilot in the game is unlikely to catch that.
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Space Wanderer
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Posted - 2009.05.09 22:08:00 -
[155]
Originally by: Dark 0men No, the comedy part is that it instawarps after 3 seconds,
The lesson here is: be careful what you wish for.
While mwd + cloak allowed some ships to slip through camps, it required lots of skill on pilots using it in 0.0, a minimum of skill on pilots using it in lowsec and it could be beaten, even in lowsec. I think that, intended or not, it was a perfect balance.
Now we have real instawarp in lowsec while 0.0 is even more impassable.
Honestly I would appreciate if some devs told us what is the design direction they are pursuing, at least to give them some decent feedback. It complicates things for everybody not knowing whether something is to be considered an exploit or a clever use of game mechanics.
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Omara Otawan
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Posted - 2009.05.09 22:37:00 -
[156]
Originally by: Dark 0men
Originally by: Omara Otawan About the fact that BSs with cloak and 3 Istabs can warp out while still cloaked, cant really see the problem here, as that is a true travelfit geared towards fast align while being invisible.
No, the comedy part is that it instawarps after 3 seconds, instead of the full MWD cycle. The bestest interceptor pilot in the game is unlikely to catch that.
Try to read in context, these fits will sacrifice 3 lowslots and a highslot for travel purposes.
The issue was for example BSs fitted for full combat playing the deagress and evade HIC game with their cloak.
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moreleftergal
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Posted - 2009.05.09 22:45:00 -
[157]
so with the changes, travel fit ships are perfectly safe in low-sec, and a little bit screwed in 0.0.
i actually like this. travel fit ships with a low rack of stabs (i-stab or warp stab?) have a better chance of beating gatecamps, while combat fits do not.
a perfect example of the enforcement of the trade-off between combat effectiveness and safety, just like the nano nerf and the warp stab nerf
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ChalSto
LOCKDOWN. Cult of War
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Posted - 2009.05.10 01:28:00 -
[158]
Originally by: Trimutius III
Originally by: Ribeye Jaksom
Originally by: Trimutius III First of all need to check if AB works or not... And then it's not totally doom for recons... And yes need to check Cov Ops Cloak too... Just in case...
Are you kidding I will decloak a recon with a AB every single time.
I think u are not siting on every gate in EVE... Good tacklers and good decloakers aren't sitting in every gatecamp.
but u can be 100% sure, if u jump in and i¦m sitting there waiting for u (u know...we are the guys next door...) i WILL kill you.
Originally by: Agmar ----------------------------------------------- "The North is so ghey that even the NPCs fly ravens." |
Space Wanderer
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Posted - 2009.05.10 09:38:00 -
[159]
Originally by: moreleftergal so with the changes, travel fit ships are perfectly safe in low-sec, and a little bit screwed in 0.0.
Well "completely screwed in 0.0" would be closer to the mark.
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Psilocin
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.05.10 10:33:00 -
[160]
This is ****ing stupid, CCP
FOFOFOOOO! |
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Siigari Kitawa
Gallente The Aduro Protocol Total Comfort
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Posted - 2009.05.10 10:38:00 -
[161]
Edited by: Siigari Kitawa on 10/05/2009 10:42:43 FINALLY!
I love how Ushra'Khan and Goonswarm are all up in arms over this change, when they aren't considering the larger problem with this.
In lowsec it is virtually impossible to lock ships anymore if you don't have a SB/RSB hictor. It has gotten to the point of ridiculous. Because abusers are finally slapping this on the hand as valid game mechanic, it causes players to think instead of to just get a free ticket to anywhere.
So what if it increases gatecamps. If you want to go somewhere and somebody has a camp up, you'd better bring a fleet to fight. If you don't, go cry some more. 0.0 is about big alliances and people blobbing the crap out of each other and it's not going to change so nobody gets any sympathy from me.
In lowsec however it was just another WTZ boost and it was upsetting the vast majority of players who are after valid kills. BATTLESHIPS SHOULD NOT GET TO MOVE THROUGH LOWSEC BY THEMSELVES FOR FREE SAFELY. THEY WERE GETTING TO DO THAT FAR TOO OFTEN.
I mean seriously, finally. Also to the person that said this requires skill, you are full of it :P It requires no skill whatsoever. It requires you to right click where you want to go, align/approach, hit your MWD button (F1) then your cloak button (F2). Don't even tell me that requires skill.
Finally.
PS: I am in favor of recon ships being able to use afterburners while cloaked FULL TIME, but not microwarpdrives.
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Joss Sparq
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2009.05.10 10:58:00 -
[162]
Sometimes I wonder if some of these Sisi changes are part of an elaborate drinking game for CCP staff
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Scatim Helicon
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.05.10 11:03:00 -
[163]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa So what if it increases gatecamps. If you want to go somewhere and somebody has a camp up, you'd better bring a fleet to fight.
Yes the only way to get anyone past 40 ships camping a gate should be to bring 50 ships ahahahaha look how stupid you are.
Quote: In lowsec however it was just another WTZ boost and it was upsetting the vast majority of players who are after valid kills. BATTLESHIPS SHOULD NOT GET TO MOVE THROUGH LOWSEC BY THEMSELVES FOR FREE SAFELY. THEY WERE GETTING TO DO THAT FAR TOO OFTEN.
Lowsec is broken beyond belief in all sorts of ways already, until it gets a fundamental reworking changes like this are pointless tinkering around the edges, with the side-effect of virtually destroying the use of covops or recon ships for 0.0 scouting and intel gathering.
Your claim that anything to do with lowsec is 'the larger problem' is pretty hilarious. Nobody goes to lowsec, it sucks.
Quote: I mean seriously, finally. Also to the person that said this requires skill, you are full of it :P It requires no skill whatsoever. It requires you to right click where you want to go, align/approach, hit your MWD button (F1) then your cloak button (F2). Don't even tell me that requires skill.
Quoting somebody who has never encountered a camped and bubbled gate in their life.
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Enden Assulu
Caldari Blood Money Inc. Blood Money Cartel
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Posted - 2009.05.10 11:32:00 -
[164]
I would like to confirm this change is ******ed
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Trimutius III
Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance
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Posted - 2009.05.10 13:29:00 -
[165]
Edited by: Trimutius III on 10/05/2009 13:30:29
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa Edited by: Siigari Kitawa on 10/05/2009 10:42:43 FINALLY!
I love how Ushra'Khan and Goonswarm are all up in arms over this change, when they aren't considering the larger problem with this.
In lowsec it is virtually impossible to lock ships anymore if you don't have a SB/RSB hictor. It has gotten to the point of ridiculous. Because abusers are finally slapping this on the hand as valid game mechanic, it causes players to think instead of to just get a free ticket to anywhere.
So what if it increases gatecamps. If you want to go somewhere and somebody has a camp up, you'd better bring a fleet to fight. If you don't, go cry some more. 0.0 is about big alliances and people blobbing the crap out of each other and it's not going to change so nobody gets any sympathy from me.
In lowsec however it was just another WTZ boost and it was upsetting the vast majority of players who are after valid kills. BATTLESHIPS SHOULD NOT GET TO MOVE THROUGH LOWSEC BY THEMSELVES FOR FREE SAFELY. THEY WERE GETTING TO DO THAT FAR TOO OFTEN.
I mean seriously, finally. Also to the person that said this requires skill, you are full of it :P It requires no skill whatsoever. It requires you to right click where you want to go, align/approach, hit your MWD button (F1) then your cloak button (F2). Don't even tell me that requires skill.
Finally.
PS: I am in favor of recon ships being able to use afterburners while cloaked FULL TIME, but not microwarpdrives.
Many bla bla, and so on... I do agree that instawarp of BSes should be nerfed, but it's not nerfed at all yet... And u really need skill to hit F1 and F2 in right moments, it's not that easy as it seems, but still it should be nerfed.
About recons and Cov Ops i don't know Afterburner for them should be boosted or MWD should not be nerfed, AB doesn't really help, though sending scout if u don't want lose expensive ship is a good tactics, and i do believe that this will make game more interesting if travelling without scout would be unsafe for recons, but natural scouts Covert Ops Frigates shouldn't be nerfed... ------------------------------------------------- I am envoy from nowhere in nowhere. Nobody and nothing have sent me. And though it is impossible I exist ¬ Trimutius |
Karentaki
Gallente Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.05.10 15:08:00 -
[166]
If this change goes through it's yet another nail in the coffin for fun PvP.
Hell, I should probably just join everyone else and camp gates with a rocket-killmail-*****-drake.
Quote:
EVE is like a sandbox with landmines. Deal with it.
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Dibsi Dei
Salamyhkaisten kilta
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Posted - 2009.05.10 22:41:00 -
[167]
Any news on this issue?
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Wotlankor
Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.05.11 06:27:00 -
[168]
Originally by: Ombey
Originally by: mynnna This severely harms mobile, guerilla and small group warfare and benefits stale camping and blobs. Don't do this.
Completely echo this. Currently our style of solo/ very small gang warfare involves running camps many times a day. We die a lot already, even with the MWD, Cloak, back to gate and out. You do this and this game will turn into lazygatecamp or bringmoarships. Or both.
QFT !!!
Please reconsider.
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Waarph
ICE is Coming to EVE Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2009.05.11 07:56:00 -
[169]
Baaaad Idea CCP. Very bad
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Max Khaos
Anger Management
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Posted - 2009.05.11 13:31:00 -
[170]
Edited by: Max Khaos on 11/05/2009 13:31:08 If this goes through ..... my coverts / recons will be moth-balled.
Is this a silent way to get everyone into T3 with Interdiction Nullifiers
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McEivalley
Fallen Angel's Blade.
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Posted - 2009.05.11 14:18:00 -
[171]
I keep hearing things about bubble immunity. That is just WRONG. Very wrong. There is very little chance (bordering the impossible) to catch a cloaker nowadays without a bubble. The chance increases ten folds with a bubble on a non-regional gate. But still, many are able to slip through and all in all there's a feeling that things are sort of unbalanced, but not by much. Trying to correct that by killing the ability to do the mwd+cloak trick will offset that balance to the other direction.
Only T3 ships will be able to survive a gate camp, while most other ships will be surely decloaked most of the time. The chance to enter and gather intel in hostile camped systems will becomes a suicide op, requiring several ships to jump in, cloak up, and hope that only one or two will die, while the others attempt to get out and warp to safety.
This will also increase the power of the already most powerful, as they can employ such en mass recon efforts while smaller entities cannot.
Insert clever remark where?? |
Arakkis Melanogaster
Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.05.11 18:54:00 -
[172]
This nerf is completely taking away a slim chance of survival for people flying hyper-specialized, expensive ships. How fun is it to ALWAYS die to a game mechanic that there is NO WAY around? Unless you are implementing some sort of scout drone/probe to peep camps at the other end of gates, this is all but guaranteeing death to folks, and making the game even less fun.
Stop doing these ill-conceived nerfs ffs. Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me. |
Trimutius III
Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance
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Posted - 2009.05.11 20:45:00 -
[173]
Originally by: Arakkis Melanogaster This nerf is completely taking away a slim chance of survival for people flying hyper-specialized, expensive ships. How fun is it to ALWAYS die to a game mechanic that there is NO WAY around? Unless you are implementing some sort of scout drone/probe to peep camps at the other end of gates, this is all but guaranteeing death to folks, and making the game even less fun.
Stop doing these ill-conceived nerfs ffs.
I do believe it will NOT be released on TQ that way as it now on SiSi... But still some nerfs is needed.
I was teaching newbies from our corp that the only way of travelling through 0.0 and lowsec are specialized ships (like Cov Ops or Interceptors) or with scout... That's my opinion... Travelling alone should be dangerous if u are not in specialized ship-type (and there should be few of such ships, and they should not be powerful t2-frigates are perfect decision), more team-play is good for EVE because it's a team-game, even if u team-up with ur alt it's already good, u put more effort for a better result... ------------------------------------------------- I am envoy from nowhere in nowhere. Nobody and nothing have sent me. And though it is impossible I exist ¬ Trimutius |
Xennith
Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.05.11 21:13:00 -
[174]
Id say that more solo play is better for eve than more forces serving to drive people into bigger and bigger fleets.
ccp constantly say they want to encourage smaller gang and solo pvp... then this. |
General Esylium
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Posted - 2009.05.11 21:30:00 -
[175]
tell you what, I didn't quit any any of the major nerfs even after I trained ages for them, like speed nerf and stuff like that because I honestly believe they were overpowered and needed, but if they implement this then F*** this game, I am not going to waste my time if I have to bring 1000 monkeys with me to travel some jumps in 0.0.
this will completely ruin any chance for travelling in 0.0 without a blob, and will completely kill off any chance for solo pvp.
This can ONLY be good if you allow recons to USE MWD while cloaked, but then that will be overpowered again.
CCP, don't f*** up the game! stop enforcing blob bulls*** on people!
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Trimutius III
Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance
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Posted - 2009.05.11 21:33:00 -
[176]
Originally by: Xennith Id say that more solo play is better for eve than more forces serving to drive people into bigger and bigger fleets.
ccp constantly say they want to encourage smaller gang and solo pvp... then this.
I remember about smaller gangs, but i don't remember anything about solo pvp... There should be at least team of 2, as i think...
No blobs is good, no Solo-PVP is not bad... There should be golden mean somewhere there. ------------------------------------------------- I am envoy from nowhere in nowhere. Nobody and nothing have sent me. And though it is impossible I exist ¬ Trimutius |
Redhouse
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Posted - 2009.05.11 22:50:00 -
[177]
Edited by: Redhouse on 11/05/2009 22:50:40 This will be ridiculous if implemented. A ~700m/s cloaked escape from a bubble with an initial wave (o hai, scout here) to the defending fleet is a death scentence for the covops ship the way I see it. I'm going to start getting decloaked by cruisers.
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RedSplat
Heretic Army
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Posted - 2009.05.11 23:18:00 -
[178]
Let Recons, Covops and SB's and Blackops use the MWD cloak trick.
Everything else shouldn't be capable of doing so.
Originally by: CCP Mitnal
I don't sleep. I am always here. Watching. Waiting.
Originally by: CCP Mitnal it does get progressively longer.
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Trimutius III
Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance
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Posted - 2009.05.11 23:22:00 -
[179]
Originally by: RedSplat Let Recons, Covops and SB's and Blackops use the MWD cloak trick.
Everything else shouldn't be capable of doing so.
I don't know about Recons and SB or give it to Blockade Runners too... But BO doesn't need MWD-Cloak trick, because i doubt u will try to go through bubble in BS-type ship, and in lowsecs BO doesn't need MWD to get enough speed to warp (speed cloaked is faster then normal speed for them) ------------------------------------------------- I am envoy from nowhere in nowhere. Nobody and nothing have sent me. And though it is impossible I exist ¬ Trimutius |
Karn Mithralia
Minmatar Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.05.12 01:59:00 -
[180]
Edited by: Karn Mithralia on 12/05/2009 02:00:48
Originally by: Trimutius III I remember about smaller gangs, but i don't remember anything about solo pvp... There should be at least team of 2, as i think...
No blobs is good, no Solo-PVP is not bad... There should be golden mean somewhere there.
Why should there be no solo-pvp? The game is multi-player that doesn't mean you can't fly alone if you choose. I interact massively with other players, I fight fleet fights, roaming gang fights, I lead a corp and an alliance, but at times I like nothing more than to hunt alone.
For me solo pvp is one of the great joys of eve, I've yet to see a logical argument to nerfing it.
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